Voting Machine Fraud already started
Wed, 2008-10-29 11:03
#1
Voting Machine Fraud already started
Wed, 2008-10-29 11:03
#2
Get ready for yet another non-elected US government from that beacon of democracy:
quote:
Published on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 by The Independent/UK
The Vote Grab: Voting Machines Are Unreliable and Inaccurateby Peter Tatchell
As early voting in the US presidential elections gets underway, ES&S iVotronics touch-screen electronic voting machines have been observed in four separate states flipping the votes - mostly from Barack Obama to John McCain but sometimes to third party candidates too. This has already occurred during early voting in the states of West Virginia, Tennessee, Missouri and Texas.
A county clerk in West Virginia invited a video crew to watch his demonstration of the reliability of the disputed voting machines but instead he saw the machine flipping the votes, as critics claimed. He put this down to the faulty calibration of the voting machine. However, even after he recalibrated the machine it continued to flip votes. Watch the video here:
[url=http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/10/29-0]Independent-UK[/url]
Wed, 2008-10-29 11:21
#3
Cueball
Well it doesn't look like straight up vote fraud in favour of the Republicans, but it is a clear indication of fucked up.
Wed, 2008-10-29 11:29
#4
Well, sending a few votes the other way will make it look like it's a technical error and not programmed.
I wonder why Americans have such problems with simple voting procedures. Why don't they just follow our example? Because it's harder to cheat then?
quote:
"If you really want to know how well machines will perform on election day, you have to test at least some of them on election day. It sounds so self-evidently logical yet we don't do that,” she added. “Failure to test voting machines during actual elections is in part what lends credence to rumors of fraud and unreported problems. You can't win voter trust with secrecy. If you want the voters to trust the technology, you must have a credible testing method. The failure to test the machines properly always leaves me scratching my head thinking, ‘What are they afraid of?’”
[url=http://www.miamisunpost.com/archives/2006/10-26-06/firststoryfrontpage.h... Dysfunction?[/url]
Wed, 2008-10-29 11:37
#5
Two touchscreen outcomes are displayed:
Those votes for Obama that are bounced to McCain are a double benefit for McCain.
Those votes for Obama that are bounced to a 3rd party candidate still benefit McCain--with the additional cover of suggesting a greater movement to 3rd party candidates.
The supposed difficulty of "calibrating" a sophisticated dedicated touchscreen so that this does not happen does not seen credible to me, or to many others.
Wed, 2008-10-29 15:50
#6
From the Onion:
Wed, 2008-10-29 16:04
#7
(chuckle chuckle chuckle) ...did you see the headline "John McCain accidentally Left on Campaign Bus Overnight" ?
Had me giggling.
Wed, 2008-10-29 16:10
#8
I think Americans have too much on their ballots, what with all those propositions, and there's also judges, district atourney's, sherrifs, the odd senator ( not so odd, now that Larry Craig is gone...) and representative.
Makes it hard to have a paper trail, and results in the same month. Hence the reliance on machinery.
They need to reduce the amount of stuff on the ballots, and have other elections at other times.
Wed, 2008-10-29 16:18
#9
Bless the cracker [correct term] who hacked that and found out...
"Shadowy overloards to keep it secret" [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
They knew the voting machines were rigged from the start.
If you haven't seen this--get ready to lose any faith in this election or any other American election, anywhere:
[url=http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/invisible_ballots.php]Invisible Ballots[/url]
[url=http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/hacking_democracy.php]Hacking Democracy[/url]
[ 29 October 2008: Message edited by: TVParkdale ]
Wed, 2008-10-29 16:24
#10
M. Spector
I had kinda figured that out already without having to watch a 2Ѕ hour movie.
Wed, 2008-10-29 16:36
#11
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]I had kinda figured that out already without having to watch a 2Ѕ hour movie.[/b]
As a 'netter I found it interesting *how* absolutely incompetent the code writers were...12-year-old web page crackers could do a better job.
It's only 8 lines of code, for pete's sake!
[img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
Thu, 2008-10-30 08:55
#12
M. Spector
[url=http://www.standingforvoters.org/]Calling on candidates to take the Standing for Voters Pledge.[/url]
Thu, 2008-10-30 09:09
#13
quote:
I think Americans have too much on their ballots, what with all those propositions, and there's also judges, district atourney's, sherrifs, the odd senator ( not so odd, now that Larry Craig is gone...) and representative.Makes it hard to have a paper trail, and results in the same month. Hence the reliance on machinery.
They need to reduce the amount of stuff on the ballots, and have other elections at other times.
I disagree, America already has little-enough democracy as it is without removing their ability to make ballot decisions beyond who they want to fuck them over for the next four years; and having separate votes for each issue... you think turn out is low now? The ballot is fine without electronic voting, hire more people if necessary, counting votes isn't that hard; the machines, and the people who build/own them are the problem... and it is a huge problem, having looked into electronic voting for the HRM I cannot understand how the Americans abide voting machines.
Thu, 2008-10-30 09:14
#14
One of the things that boggles my mind about US elections is their acceptance that a 90 minute wait to vote is normal and accepted. They may say they are democratic but they don't spend enough money to make it work.
Thu, 2008-10-30 09:31
#15
Not enough money left over from the wars to "spread democracy" to finance democracy back home [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
Sun, 2008-11-02 17:18
#16
McCain's predicting an election day "upset!", but it seems Obama is the clear lead.
How will American citizens and Democrats be able to scrutinize the voting and, if necessary, contest any suspicious results? Given the widespread suspicion of fraud around the last two elections, but nothing ever done about it, what will Democrats do this time around if the machines hand the win to McCain? Does anyone know? What constitutional protection do Americans have against election fraud?
[ 02 November 2008: Message edited by: jas ]
Sun, 2008-11-02 18:03
#17
quote:
From the Charleston (W.V.) Gazette-Mail (Oct 18th):
WINFIELD, W.Va. -- Three Putnam County voters say electronic voting machines changed their votes from Democrats to Republicans when they cast early ballots last week.This is the second West Virginia county where voters have reported this problem. Last week, three voters in Jackson County told The Charleston Gazette their electronic vote for "Barack Obama" kept flipping to "John McCain".
In both counties, Republicans are responsible for overseeing elections. Both county clerks said the problem is isolated.
[..]
Shelba Ketchum, a 69-year-old nurse retired from Thomas Memorial Hospital, described what happened Friday at the Putnam County Courthouse in Winfield.
"I pushed buttons and they all came up Republican," she said. "I hit Obama and it switched to McCain. I am really concerned about that. If McCain wins, there was something wrong with the machines.
"I asked them for a printout of my votes," Ketchum said. "But they said it was in the machine and I could not get it. I did not feel right when I left the courthouse. My son felt the same way.
"I heard from some other people they also had trouble. But no one in there knew how to fix it," said Ketchum, who is not related to Menis Ketchum, a Democratic Supreme Court candidate.
[url=http://www.sundaygazettemail.com/News/200810180251]source[/url]
Sun, 2008-11-02 18:20
#18
Vote stealing has been part of US elections since the very first one.
This time though, under Obama, the Dems have been proactive and loaded for bear. There's 6000 volunteer lawyers, there's campaign workers coordinated via text messaging, and I don't think they'll just roll over like in Florida and Ohio last time.
Personally I think any persons proven to steal votes should get a good 20 years with no parole, but that's just my opinion.
[url=http://www.amazon.com/Steal-This-Vote-Elections-Democracy/dp/1560256761]...
[ 02 November 2008: Message edited by: djelimon ]
Mon, 2008-11-03 00:35
#19
I think they will close the gap on Obama to make it look close = no mandate. But if they want to steal the vote it is going to result in a civil war. Seriously shades of grey over there. If people think there isn't much difference between lib/cons here, south of the border it is even closer. At least when it comes to being president. I say the proof is in the pudding. If Obama bring in medicare I will call him the most progressive resident ever. And somehow I get the feeling the HMO's won't be gone instead be expanded with the government just paying instead of business...Another externalization of costs to the taxpayers.
Mon, 2008-11-03 00:49
#20
Cueball
I don't think its that simple, or that tightly controlled. The fraud when and if it takes place will likely be done by local organizations or some partisan individuals, not co-ordinated and calculated to the exact number by some central office. That would be very difficult, and if things when awry, would have very serious consequences.
So, the upper echelons will be wanting "plausible deniability. I also imagine both parties are doing it, so its hard to tell if there will be that much effect. So, I think it will all be very much up in the air.
If Obama truly wanted to bring in medicare, he would have to give in somewhere else, like nuking Iran. I imagine all of that will get lost in the "economic realities" and neither will happen. Just like here when the libs or the NDP gets into power -- can't afford the christmas presents. The conservatives don't bother making such promises, which is one of the reasons many people like em.
[ 03 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Mon, 2008-11-03 07:36
#21
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
I also imagine both parties are doing it, so its hard to tell if there will be that much effect. So, I think it will all be very much up in the air.
If that's true, how many counties are Democrat-controlled? The county where ballots went out with "Osama" on them was also Republican.
One of the first things the Dems could do is change the electoral process to extablish an officially independent electoral commission. This notion of partisan interests overseeing the electoral process is a joke. Americans think they are the missionaries of democracy in the world? They're a freakin' joke.