Criticisms of Obama from the left

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Cueball Cueball's picture

It's quite clear he is inverting the race paradigm that has been central to the whole Obama campaign and expressing an idea about class divisions in the black community that has been quite frequently expressed by radical black activists. I think if Obama is going to run and be applauded using the motif of black empowerment, Nader's comments are legitimized by their use of this theme, and Nader is picking up on it.

This commentary would have been much better voiced by radical left black activists, but unfortunately, those of Nader's generation who might have made such statements, have been effectively marginalized in one way or another.

Quite frankly, this comment by Nader, and the shocked brouhaha that accompanies it fits right in the same category as the infamous "the chickens have come home to roost" statement made by Malcolm X, on the day of the assassination of John F. Kennedy, or Sunera Thobani's infamous "the hands of the US are covered in blood" comment after 9-11.

The reaction is similar, and the outrage histrionics that accompany them add to the impression that the comments struck a nerve, in such a way that gives the comments more poignant significance than they actually warrant.

The more reaction I read, the more significant they seem.

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Cueball:
[QB]It's quite clear he is inverting the race paradigm that has been central to the whole Obama campaign and expressing an idea about class divisions in the black community that has been quite frequently expressed by radical black activists. I think if Obama is going to run and be applauded using the motif of black empowerment, Nader's comments are legitimized by their use of this theme, and Nader is picking up on it.

Well that's where your wrong the race paradigm was not a central part of his campaign nor what he was running on, neither was it about black empowerment. He was actually criticized by people black and non blacks alike for actually ignoring that aspect. Big time. Remember the brouhau about his race speech?
Jesse Jackson himself said he was talking too white or something close to that.

The issue of race came straight from the right and most everyone else, not from the campaign itself and did not become a big issue in the campaign itself until the Palin and McCain rhetoric started blowing the whistles. Then and only then were there any comments comming from the Obama side about the 'race' issue with the most strident ones from people like George Lewis, long time civil rights activists.

quote:


This commentary would have been much better voiced by radical left black activists, but unfortunately, those of Nader's generation who might have made such statements, have been effectively marginalized in one way or another.

Um...so since the black folks who 'may' be feeling that way can't speak for themselves Nadar has too? Is that what I'm reading here? Okay...well that makes it okay then. He was just helping. Maybe he actually checked with some first.

remind remind's picture

Ya well, I gueess I am inserting my female reality into the equation, when I think about it. Because most certainly if it had been Hillary who had won, and Nader, or anyone else on the progressive left for that matter, stated that they hoped she would not be "whoring" (or insert here any gender based perjorative) her female base out to patriarchy and male hegemony, I would say he was being a sexist shit.

White males just do not have the gender and racially charged perjoratives used against them, when they are in positions of power and authority. Everyone just expects them to be the way they are.

Cueball Cueball's picture

quote:


Originally posted by ElizaQ:
[b]
Um...so since the black folks who 'may' be feeling that way can't speak for themselves Nadar has too? Is that what I'm reading here? Okay...well that makes it okay then. He was just helping. Maybe he actually checked with some first.[/b]

No I am saying that the people who might say such things are dead, in jail, and/or marginalzied to such an extent that they would not have been given the interview that originally started this off.

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Fidel:
[b][url=http://www.ww4report.com/node/5716]Obama and the School of the Americas[/url]

[/b]


quote:

On the other hand, try as he might to skirt the issue, Obama will soon be obliged to take a clearer stand on WHINSEC. That's because the House recently approved the McGovern-Sestak-Bishop amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act for 2009. The amendment obliges WHINSEC to publicly release the names, rank, country of origin, courses, and dates of attendance of the school's graduates and instructors.

Legislators pressed for the measure because in recent years WHINSEC has withheld vital information that would have helped to identify the perpetrators of massacres, targeted assassinations, and human rights abuses committed in Latin America. In a resounding defeat for the Pentagon, the measure was approved by a vote of 220 to 189. The amendment now heads to the Senate where all eyes will be on Obama.


I tried to find out where this stands now and what Obama's response was to it. Not sure it's been to the Senate yet.

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]

No I am saying that the people who might say such things are dead, in jail, and/or marginalzied to such an extent that they would not have been given the interview that originally started this off.[/b]


I get that. And? That's related to Nadar saying it how exactly? If it's not intended as some sort of reason or related to his interview the why is it important for a point of discussion about his comments?

Cueball Cueball's picture

I don't believe that all Black Americans reject Ralph Nader's take on Barak Obama. Here we are a group of mostly white people (as far as I can tell) going over the in's and out's of Nader's 60's style radical activist poke at Obama.

I definitely agree that Nader was intentionally walking the line for effect, but there was also a point in there that was not getting a lot of play in the media, and as far as I can tell Nader is the only person to get that point into a sound bite on a major network, in what is a sea of umitigated self-congratulation and applause, not the least of which is coming from a lot of white liberal Americans patting themselves on the back for doing the "good deed".

I think this would be a discussion much better served by actually referencing African-American reaction to his statement, and previous statements, and not just those from those people who are African Americans in the establishment.

I don't see a lot of that here, and rather than bantering back and forth, about what we think is the issue, we might as well spend this time blogging around and informing ourselves on what is actually being said by Black Americans on this topic.

I have been doing some of this already, and while its pretty clear that a substantial number of Black Americans were very offended by earlier Nader's statements that Obama was "talking white", some came out to say that they understood this statement and even agreed with it. At least that is what was being said on the blogs. One misconception about the "talking white" statement that seemed prevalent, was that when Nader was talking about Obama "talking white" he did not mean that Obama should be using ghetto talk, instead of speaking as the college educated man that he is. Were that what he meant, the offence would be quite obviously just. But Nader's "talking white" statement is not about how Obama speaks, it is about the [i]interests that Obama is speaking for[/i]: "The white power structure," as one blogger pointed out.

It's a sixites thing. Nader is... well... a sixties guy, really.

Amid the wash of general enthusiasm for Obama a few voices came out to point the nuances of Nader's views, but they were a small minority, and they were readily attacked by the majority. Earlier, I pointed out that there might be some difficulty for more radical voices in the Black community to make less than enthusiastic statements about Obama, and my reading confirmed this for me. Even the usually up-front, and established Jesse Jackson ended up appologizing for some negative comments he made about Obama.

I don't really know if Nader is the right person to be pushing the buttons that he is pushing, but it seems to me that there are very few people out there right now in a position to do so, and regardless of that fact, I think Nader made a valuable point, regardless of how it came out.

J.D. opined:

quote:

I think Nadar is an idiot who has a point. Obama can’t keep it too real cause it isn’t PC (Politically Correct). He’s playing the game doing what he’s got to do. I support Obama, but don’t be fooled. He’s a politician and that means you cannot say what you truly believe, ’cause white folks ain’t hearing it.

Flo said:

quote:

I have to disagree with everyone here–except dee. I think Sharpton, Dyson and most of this forum missed Nader’s point. He wasn’t talking about vernacular or speech cadence. He was saying that by avoiding issues plaguing a disproportionately black and poor urban group, he was pandering to the fragile ego of the white educated middle class he hopes will vote for him. I think Nader was pointing this out because he feels Obama is trying not to seem like a black candidate to his white voters for fear his fate will mimic that of unsuccessful pro-black in-your-face previous candidates like Jackson. What is ironic about this is that his black voter base understands and accepts this, but it does seem like less of a “change from routine politics” to avoid the needs of your most loyal group of supporters–black Americans.

That having been said, I do support Obama and have been an avid fan since I read his first book long before his 2004 speech and ascension to fame. I’m not trying to be mean, but I just don’t think anyone on the forum–except dee–actually took time to read the comments, you just saw the headline “talk white” and ran with your preconceived notions about the content of his comments. We all skim read and jump to conclusions from time to time. This time you are in good company. Sharpton and Dyson apparently did the same thing, except now they sound foolish and misinformed in press clips instead of just on a BET.com forum.


[url=http://blogs.bet.com/news/newsyoushouldknow/nader-accuses-obama-of-%E2%8... Accuses Obama of ‘Talking White’[/url]

What concerns me more about Nader's statement, is not the Uncle Tom statement, but the statement that we should hold Obama to a "higher standard", and I frankly don't get that, myself. Why because he is black? Huh?

He will be the president of the United States, and unless some miracle happens, holding the president of the United States to a higher standard still requires that I put my big rubber boots on and get ready to crawl around the sewers of Washington.

Fortunately, we do not have to rely only on Ralph Nader for commentary on Barak Obama, and his relationship to the "white power structure", and we can find other voices from within the African American community who can give us some different perspectives:

quote:

Either Obama and the pundits don’t love Hispanics or there’s more money and political opportunity in exhorting blacks. Racist appeals played a role in the election of Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Both Bushes and even Clinton, but there is such euphoria among many African Americans about the possibility of a black presidency that his dumping of a bunch of lazy clichйs on them will be forgiven. They will forgive him for throwing them under the bus as he did Rev. Wright, whose criticism of American foreign policy and remarks about the toxic attacks on the inner city were based upon facts. He provided his corporate media critics with a bibliography, but they apparently were too busy paling around with the people whom they cover to read it.

Blacks will overlook Obama’s snubbing of the distinguished panel of black educators politicians and intellectuals who appear on Tavis Smiley’ annual “State of the Black Union, ” and overlook the fact that he found the time to appear before AIPAC where he made belligerent threats against Arab nations and even promised Israel an undivided Jerusalem, he got so carried away, which undercuts a notion held by Maureen Dowd, and Susan Faludi that he is the feminine candidate. When it comes to seeking Jewish votes and putting down black men, in order to obtain votes from white male conservatives, he can become John Wayne.


Did this piece by Ishmael Reed,[url=http://www.counterpunch.org/reed06242008.html]Obama Scolds Black Fathers, Gets Bounce in Polls [/url], surface at any time during this discussion?

[ 09 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

Fidel

quote:


Originally posted by ElizaQ:
[b]

I tried to find out where this stands now and what Obama's response was to it. Not sure it's been to the Senate yet.[/b]


[url=http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/06/forty-two-democrats-vote-to-keep-s... Democrats Vote to Keep School of the Americas Open[/url] Juin 2007

I guess those are the two year guys in the lower house

[ 08 November 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Here's what a poster at [url=http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&... Agenda Report[/url] who calls himself "Godfather of Soul" had to say:

quote:

Obama in his acceptance speech already lowered the bar. He is already calling for his supporters to be patient, to wait, to give him a pass, to defer their demands to a later date. He said that the change that they seek may not come even during his first term. He is already compromising and silencing the will of the people. He will tell them, wait, wait, wait as they fall deeper and deeper into desperation. He will tell them wait, wait, wait, as Palestinians are continually cleansed from their ancestral lands. He will tell them wait, wait, wait as the Congo slides into complete chaos. He will tell them wait, wait, wait as he bombs Pakistan and Afghanistan. He will tell them wait, wait, wait as he maintains permanent "advisory" forces and mercenaries in Iraq.

And when they cannot wait any longer, he will betray them even more deeply. When black people demand that he listen, he will shut the door on them. And as houses are taken away, infrastructure crumbles and the coffers of this nation are drained more and more by the machine of war, he will call for patience. He will give away the fruits of the work of those who own this nation to those who wish to dominate it even more fully, those who bought him.

[b]And as Ralph Nader asked on election night, will he be Uncle Sam or Uncle Tom? The answer is clear: he will do as all Toms have done throughout history and urge patience as master steals from their pockets, ruins their lives and shackles them to a system that vampirically feeds on them, giving them just enough to be thankful for not killing them directly.[/b]


ETA: The screaming headlines in the MSM and the blogosphere say "Nader calls Obama an Uncle Tom". It would be no less accurate, and equally false, if the headlines all said "Nader calls Obama an Uncle Sam".

[ 08 November 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

Cueball Cueball's picture

quote:


All of the blacks and Hispanics who have been driven out of New York, Oakland, and San Francisco, as a result of the policies of ethnic cleansing, advocated by Jerry Brown, Giuliani and Newsom, will be invited to return. The banks that aimed toxic mortgage loans to blacks and Hispanics, who would have qualified for conventional loans had they been white, will halt the foreclosure process and renegotiate these loans. CEOs on Wall Street will forego bonuses and golden parachutes. Sales conferences
will be held at Day’s Inn. For rent signs will go up on K street. The American Enterprise will close its doors.

The right will stop using worn out phrases like “ political correctness, ’ and victimization” and hire Sean “Puffy” Combs to provide them with some hip language.

An Obama administration will launch the Obama doctrine, which will advocate friendly aggression and soft diplomacy in Africa, Asia the Middle East and other global spots where American forces are killing people. These trouble spots wll be inundated with artists, writers, dancers and musicians, engineers, doctors and people who speak their languages.


[url=http://www.counterpunch.org/reed11052008.html]Morning in Obamerica [/url]

Cueball Cueball's picture

quote:


Originally posted by ElizaQ:
[b]

His actual words:

But his choice, basically, is whether he’s going to be Uncle Sam for the people of this country, or Uncle Tom for the giant corporations.[/b]


For the sake of posterity, and as the likely thread closer, even though it does not make much difference, his actual words were:

quote:

"But his choice, basically, is whether he’s going to be Uncle Sam for the people of this country, or Uncle Tom for the giant corporations,[i] which are driving America into the ground."[/i]

Faux cut it off after corporations.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Just noticed this thread, closing for length.

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