http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/08/child.charged.ap/index.html
This is incredible. Eight years old is way too young, and apparently the cops tough talked him and questioned him without a parent or guardian (and he confessed). Poor kid.
8 year old boy charged with murder in Arizona
Mon, 2008-11-10 13:46
#1
Polly B
8 year old boy charged with murder in Arizona
Mon, 2008-11-10 13:59
#2
remind
Wow, and supposedly, he murdered his father and another man, and some type of abuse is suspected.
Mon, 2008-11-10 14:22
#3
Not to mention whoever left a gun around where a young child could access it.
Mon, 2008-11-10 14:55
#4
Polly B
Even better - his dad had taught him HOW to use the gun. Apparently he sought advice from his priest about whether the child was old enough.
"He wanted to make sure the kid wasn't afraid of guns, knew how to
handle it," the priest said. "He was just too young. ... That child, I
don't think he knows what he did, and it was brutal."
This is such a bizarre story. Eight years old, grade three. That is not old enough to be charged with a crime.
Tue, 2008-11-11 08:32
#5
It is in some parts of the US of A. Hey, who said they had the corner on "democracy" and "freedom"?
Fri, 2008-11-14 14:17
#6
Polly B
"A Phoenix defense lawyer, Karyn Klausner, who is a former municipal
judge, said that for the boy to be tried as an adult, the tests must
show that he is competent to understand the charges against him, has a
basic understanding of the court process and is able to assist in his
defense. In addition, prosecutors must prove that he cannot be
rehabilitated by the time he turns 18 and leaves the juvenile justice
system."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/us/13child.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&ref=...
How can you possibly even try to prove whether or not this little kid can be rehabilitated? How will prison - for an EIGHT year old - do anything but wreck him for good??
They shackled him. Unbelievable.
Fri, 2008-11-14 14:32
#7
remind
Yep, it is, completely unbelievable, but somehow not surprising.
___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"
Fri, 2008-11-14 16:47
#8
I remember grade 3.
I couldn't figure out multiplication or why I had to run backwards in baseball from batting left-handed and hoping my brother would be home to ride me double on his bike if I had a bad day.
That is the level of knowledge of an 8-year-old.
DAD is the one who should be handcuffed and sitting in a courtroom.
Fri, 2008-11-14 16:54
#9
remind
Well, he is dead so that can't happen, though I agree. There is much much more to this than what is being reported I suspect. Who knows what has happened to him to trigger such a result. But there are indications.
___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"
Fri, 2008-11-14 21:56
#10
Well, he is dead so that can't happen, though I agree. There is much much more to this than what is being reported I suspect. Who knows what has happened to him to trigger such a result. But there are indications.
___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"
Whether the family abused the boy physically, mentally or emotionally--I can't call it anything other than criminal idiocy to give a child that age, access to a loaded weapon. These people were not living in a war zone.
Does anyone know what *mom* is saying about this?
Fri, 2008-11-14 22:49
#11
Polly B
The sight of her young son being led into court in shackles on
Monday was especially upsetting, Ms. Bloomfield said. His hands were
bound to a security belt that had to be looped around his waist three
times because of his small frame. The judge ordered the restraints
removed.
“I blew some kisses at him and told him to put some in
his pocket for later,” the mother said. “Later he told me he needed
more kisses to put in his pocket.”
Mon, 2008-11-17 14:22
#12
The sight of her young son being led into court in shackles on
Monday was especially upsetting, Ms. Bloomfield said. His hands were
bound to a security belt that had to be looped around his waist three
times because of his small frame. The judge ordered the restraints
removed.“I blew some kisses at him and told him to put some in
his pocket for later,” the mother said. “Later he told me he needed
more kisses to put in his pocket.”
I think I lost my lunch
Mon, 2008-11-17 14:41
#13
remind
Whether the family abused the boy physically, mentally or emotionally--I can't call it anything other than criminal idiocy to give a child that age, access to a loaded weapon. These people were not living in a war zone.Does anyone know what *mom* is saying about this?
Many many people in the USA are operantly conditioned to believe that they indeed are living in a war zone, it is an 'us' or 'them' mentality at work. Furthered by the Bush/Cheney "War on Terror" and the neo-con right and we are seeing this no shades of gray, "you're with us or against us" play out across the USA, in this incident and indeed within the other school shooting settings, IMV.
Thankfully the Judge ordered the shackles to be removed.
___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"
Mon, 2008-11-17 15:05
#14
Whether the family abused the boy physically, mentally or emotionally--I can't call it anything other than criminal idiocy to give a child that age, access to a loaded weapon. These people were not living in a war zone.Does anyone know what *mom* is saying about this?
Many many people in the USA are operantly conditioned to believe that they indeed are living in a war zone, it is an 'us' or 'them' mentality at work. Furthered by the Bush/Cheney "War on Terror" and the neo-con right and we are seeing this no shades of gray, "you're with us or against us" play out across the USA, in this incident and indeed within the other school shooting settings, IMV.
Thankfully the Judge ordered the shackles to be removed.
___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"
Sadly, I have to say you might be right.
I can't tell you how many Americans I've debated about that fact that if their own government wants to commit war on them--a handgun is virtually useless weaponry.
All it is, is a license to kill someone who doesn't deserve to die
Tue, 2008-11-18 10:34
#15
Refuge
Melnick said police got a confession, but the boy's attorney, Benjamin Brewer, said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.
"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid."
That is if he even did it. An 8 year old boy being able to stand up to two fully grown men using questioning techniques without any advocate or lawyer present. I have seen the questioning of an 14 year old boy where you can see the police breaking him down and making him think he had killed his sister. It was chilling watching it.
http://www.courttv.com/archive/movie/crowe/latest.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/14/48hours/main649381.shtml
The Interrogation:
http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2004/10/15/48hours/videoarchive649635.shtml
Tue, 2008-11-18 10:57
#16
That is if he even did it. An 8 year old boy being able to stand up to two fully grown men using questioning techniques without any advocate or lawyer present. I have seen the questioning of an 14 year old boy where you can see the police breaking him down and making him think he had killed his sister. It was chilling watching it.
That's an excellent point that no one's made here yet. Thanks for bringing it up!
Wed, 2008-11-19 13:29
#17
Polly B
"They became very accusing early on in the interview," defense
attorney Ben Brewer told The Associated Press last week. "Two officers
with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an
8-year-old kid."
In the first 12 minutes of the tape, the boy
tells police he decided to walk around the block "like nine or 10
times" before going home -- something he does on Mondays and Wednesdays
"because my mom doesn't get off until 5."
He said he was about
two houses down from his home when he saw a white car "driving pretty
fast" in front of his house. Then, he said, he saw Romans lying on the
ground. The boy said he ran over to Romans, then ran inside the house
calling for his father.
"I said, 'Dad, Dad,' " the boy said. "And
then I went upstairs, and then I saw him, and there was blood all over
his face, and I think I touched it ... and I didn't hear anything, and
I just saw blood and I cried for about 30 minutes, just crying right
next to him." 
Watch police interrogate the boy »
On the tape, the child continued to deny being home when the slayings took place."
And it keeps getting wierder and wierder.
"We solved the crime," St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick told KPHO. "Now we have to solve the mystery of why."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/18/arizona.boy.murder/index.html#cnnSTCText
Wed, 2008-11-19 13:30
#18
Polly B
Just the fact that the authorities have released the tape is too frikkin strange.
Wed, 2008-11-19 13:36
#19
remind
Unbelievable, that they have decided to frame him with it! And yes, why would they release the tape, and why would the police say they have solved it?
___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"
Sat, 2008-11-22 13:46
#20
Refuge
IMO they released the first 12 minutes because it is obvious he is not telling the truth of what happened when he found them because the story doesn't add up.
They probably are under the impression that means that he killed them and is trying to cover it up.
IMO it means that he is an 8 year old boy who first is in shock and second doesn't understand what happened and that is why his story sounds so strange.
The thing that scares me is that the little boy seems to be trying to make sense of what happened and now instead of working through with a theraputic adult what happened he is working through with two cops who are telling him he killed them. There is way more than a good chance he didn't do it but he could go the rest of his life now questioning if he killed two people, one of them his father.
Wed, 2008-11-26 23:40
#21
Polly B
And it keeps getting stranger. Now they are releasing more tidbits to the press, such as the boy kept a running tally of the amount of times he was spanked and said when he got to 1000 he would hit his limit.
WTF? First, how often do you have to spank to hit 1000 by that age - every couple days since birth?
And what the hell is going on, that the press know about the ledger, and that his grandma didn't trust him...are the cops leaking this stuff to make sure they "get their man"? Crap.
Thu, 2008-11-27 17:25
#22
Close. Every three days since birth.
Fri, 2008-11-28 00:32
#23
Polly B
According to the police records, the boy told a Child Protective
Services official that "when he reached one thousand spankings . . .
that would be his limit. [The boy] kept a tally of his spankings on a
piece of paper."
Despite his age, relatives suspected the boy
immediately in the shootings. His grandfather told investigators: "If
any 8-year-old was capable of doing this, [the boy] was", and the
child's grandmother added: "I knew this was going to happen, they were
too hard on [him]."
Too hard on him? Holy shite, your ARM would get tired from spanking the kid that often.
What a bizarre case. I have a nephew exactly this age, and it was his voice I could hear when the news played that bit of confession. I guess that's why it's grabbed me so.