Discussion of Vancouver municipal vote: NPA swept out of power

74 posts / 0 new

Sat, 2008-11-15 12:01

remind

Well, today is the day, after the dirtiest campaign in history for a civic election. Will Robertson get in? Or will Ladner's dirty tricks get him elected? There were almost double the amount of advanced ballots from the last election, where almost 16k voted already and the last election had 8k advanced. A lot appears to be riding on this election, including the royal swans.

I am hoping for a Vision sweep, and if the amount of volunteers to go by is any indication Robertson has this in the bag. His campaign office, shown on last evening's news, was literally packed with young people getting ready for last minute door to door activities, whilst Ladner's showed 5 working the phone lines.

Sat, 2008-11-15 16:10

ghoris

I suspect Vision will do quite well as there seems to be a bit of an anti-incumbent feeling out there, which is more likely to be directed at the NPA as the perceived 'incumbent party'. Vision is also fielding a very strong and impressive slate of candidates for Council, School Board and Park Board.

I cast my vote this morning - Vision and COPE for Park Board and School Board, Robertson for Mayor. I have been disappointed in the performances of some of the incumbent Vision councillors, who are either invisible (Chow) or past their best-before dates and should make way for new blood (Stevenson), so of the Vision Council slate I only voted for Deal, Dhaliwal, Jang, Meggs and Reimer. I also voted for the COPE slate of Cadman and Woodsworth, and because I believe in having a diversity of viewpoints represented on council, and because I was impressed with them, I also voted for the NPA's Geller and Bickerton.

Ideally I'd like to see Robertson as mayor, with a workable majority on council (say 5 Vision + 2 COPE) and 2 or 3 NPA seats for some balance.

In terms of what I think will actually happen, I think Robertson will win the mayoralty - his campaign generally seems to be more well-organized and I think Ladner is going to end up wearing the whole Olympic Village fiasco. I also think we are likely to see a council closer to 2002 than 2005 - 7 or 8 COPE-Vision vs. 2 or 3 NPA. Since the two COPE candidates strike me as being among the more pragmatic of the 'COPE Classics' from the Class of 2002, I'm hoping we will not see a repeat of the divisions among the left on council that we saw during the Campbell era.

Sat, 2008-11-15 17:33

Treetop

"... or past their best-before dates and should make way for new blood (Stevenson)"

I find that comment to be rather ageist and ignorant. Tim has been a leading councillor with very progressive ideas which very often make news headlines.

Tim Stevenson is a good city councillor and a good man.

What a baseless attack.

Sat, 2008-11-15 17:40

Treetop

"I also voted for the NPA's Geller and Bickerton"

Considering the NPA majority voted 95% of the time as a slate, like a bunch of trained seals, I certainly hope your NPA choices for council do not win.

Sat, 2008-11-15 18:40

kim elliott kim elliott's picture

I just voted - feel pretty confident that Gregor will get in! Am disappointed though at the lack of cooperation with COPE on Vision's part. For instance, COPE put out a terrific Vision-Cope-Green slate card, whereas I've had about a dozen Vision slate documents come through, with no mention of COPE.

Sat, 2008-11-15 19:43

Left Turn

Gergor Robertson will probably become the new Mayor of Vancouver, and Vision will probably win a majority on council, but it doesn't make much difference. They're a pro-Olympics party, funded by the developers, and they voted for the Olympics bailout. No Thanks.

The only progressive candidate for mayor in this Vancouver election is Betty Crawczyk, of the [url=http://www.worklessparty.org/platform/platform.pdf]Work Less Party[/url]. If I lived in Vancouver, rather than Burnaby, I'd vote for Betty Crawzyk, and the Work Less Party council candidates. I'd also vote for the two COPE candidates.

Vision Vancouver is Not Progressive. Voting for Vision Vancouver is like voting for the Democratic Party in the US. It ammounts to giving up on progressive political struggle at the municipal level.

Sat, 2008-11-15 20:11

ghoris

Treetop wrote:

"... or past their best-before dates and should make way for new blood (Stevenson)"

I find that comment to be rather ageist and ignorant. Tim has been a leading councillor with very progressive ideas which very often make news headlines.

Tim Stevenson is a good city councillor and a good man.

What a baseless attack.

It's not an attack, it's an opinion about someone's effectiveness. One that, incidentally, I am not alone on this board in sharing. I am not condemning seniors or suggesting that Stevenson should not be a councillor due to age. I'm sure he has many progressive attitudes but I'd like to know what he's actually done to implement or fight for progressive policy in Vancouver.

You obviously don't agree with my assessment, which is fine. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine.

Sat, 2008-11-15 20:23

Treetop

"and they voted for the Olympics bailout. No Thanks."

"I'd also vote for the two COPE candidates"

Didn't Cadman vote for it as well?

Sat, 2008-11-15 20:34

Treetop

"Vision Vancouver is Not Progressive. Voting for Vision Vancouver is like voting for the Democratic Party in the US. It ammounts to giving up on progressive political struggle at the municipal level. "

That's bullshit and you know it.

Vison and COPE (Cadman) have pretty much always voted together in the last three years. Maybe every single time.

With repect to developers, I believe Cadman accepted an invitation from Mr. Terry Hui, of Concord Pacific, to have a wonderful evening wining and dining on his private yacht.

But, hey, he's a COPE councillor, his intentions are well.

Sat, 2008-11-15 20:46

#10

remind

Watched a CBC news clip on that 18 year old running for council and school board in Surrey, seems like an energetic well informed young man, who should be watched as a rising political star in BC politics.

___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"

Sat, 2008-11-15 20:46

#11

ghoris

Anyone who sees Betty Krawczyk or the Work Less Party as a serious option for progressive change does not have much credibility as a commentator on Vancouver politics. This is a pure vanity exercise for a bunch of self-styled avant-garde 'activists', who have more in common with the Rhinoceros Party than anything else. To give you a flavour of where these guys are coming from, here's the 'official photo' of one of the council candidates:

I do have one constructive suggestion for the Work Less Party - how about running a council slate made up of people who actually live in Vancouver?

Sat, 2008-11-15 20:50

#12

Treetop

ghoris wrote:
Treetop wrote:

"... or past their best-before dates and should make way for new blood (Stevenson)"

I find that comment to be rather ageist and ignorant. Tim has been a leading councillor with very progressive ideas which very often make news headlines.

Tim Stevenson is a good city councillor and a good man.

What a baseless attack.

It's not an attack, it's an opinion about someone's effectiveness. One that, incidentally, I am not alone on this board in sharing. I am not condemning seniors or suggesting that Stevenson should not be a councillor due to age. I'm sure he has many progressive attitudes but I'd like to know what he's actually done to implement or fight for progressive policy in Vancouver.

You obviously don't agree with my assessment, which is fine. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine.

I'm glad you feel he has progressive attitudes, I agree.

I don't mean to sound as if I am coming off as defensive. I just don't see how he differs then any other councillor in terms of progressiveness or capability or what he has done as a councillor. How is Tim any less of an effective councillor then Deal/Chow/Louie? Or even Cadman for that matter.

Sat, 2008-11-15 20:53

#13

Treetop

ghoris wrote:

Anyone who sees Betty Krawczyk or the Work Less Party as a serious option for progressive change does not have much credibility as a commentator on Vancouver politics. This is a pure vanity exercise for a bunch of self-styled avant-garde 'activists', who have more in common with the Rhinoceros Party than anything else. To give you a flavour of where these guys are coming from, here's the 'official photo' of one of the council candidates:

I do have one constructive suggestion for the Work Less Party - how about running a council slate made up of people who actually live in Vancouver?

Agreed.

But what can you expect from somebody who thinks that there is no difference between Vision Vancouver and the NPA.

Sat, 2008-11-15 22:35

#14

Politics101

"Tim has been a
leading councillor with very progressive ideas which very often make
news headlines."

Yes driving drunk down Davie St and hiding it from the media for close to a year certainly got him some news headlines.

Regrettably I wasn't able to vote in this civic election as I am currently in Miami and the dates for mail in ballots didn't work either as I wasn't in Vancouver to receive the mail in ballots - if I can stay awake for a couple more hours I will follow the results online from either the City of Vancouver website or News 1130.

I do have one question though - since the bailout of the Olympic Village project was unanimous and supported by all three parties just what would Gregor and an Vision/Cope council do?

Ghoris - it would be nearly impossible for the Work Less Party to run candidates that actually live in Vancouver because with housing being so expensive they would actually have to Work More Often to live here.

Sat, 2008-11-15 23:43

#15

ghoris

Global is projecting Robertson elected Mayor based on exit polling showing him with 57% of the vote to 39% for Ladner.

No word yet on what council will look like, but apparently the NPA is not optimistic. The Sun has a good election night blog with reporters stationed at the various party headquarters. Kennedy Stewart has been quoted on the Sun's site as suggesting that Suzanne Anton and possibly one other NPA candidate might still make it onto council but otherwise we are looking at a COPE/Vision sweep.

Results will be posted on the City's website (http://vancouver.ca/electionresults2008) but no results so far.

Sat, 2008-11-15 23:53

#16

ghoris

Robertson leading 2 to 1 with 6 of 133 polling stations reporting - mostly from East Van. Robertson has won at least two eastside polls that went to Sullivan last time, so looks good so far.

Council is a VV/COPE sweep so far, ditto Park Board (including 1 Green) and School Board.

Sun, 2008-11-16 00:09

#17

ghoris

Robertson is making serious inroads into areas that voted for Sullivan, particularly in the Renfrew-Collingwood and Kensington-Cedar Cottage neighbouroods. Robertson has also won one of the upscale Coal Harbour polling divisions so far.

With 42/133 polls, the current numbers in the Mayor race are 17,359 for Robertson versus 13,552 for Ladner. Ladner is done - there are not as many west side polls left to report as there are on the east side, and given the improvement Robertson has shown on Jim Green's 2005 numbers (and where the improvements are taking place) I don't think Ladner can pull it out.

Council at the moment is Louie, Deal, Chow, Jang, Reimer, Stevenson, Anton, Cadman, Meggs, Geller.

Sun, 2008-11-16 01:11

#18

DrConway

Ha-HA! Suck eggs, NPA!

I admit to being disappointed at the NPA narrow squeak-out in 2005 resulting in a reversal of a lot of what COPE was hoping to accomplish.

Vancouverites now have a chance to recover that lost ground and with any luck, COPE/Vision can work together to make Vancouver a better place to be.

Good riddance to that asshole Sam Sullivan and his gang of cronies giving away the city to the developers for their thirty pieces of silver.

Sun, 2008-11-16 01:28

#19

ghoris

The last poll has now reported. Gibson edges Bargeman for the ninth school board seat by 67 votes.

The NPA managed to elect just four people - one councillor, one park board commissioner, and two school trustees. All in all, a Vision/COPE rout.

Now let's hope they can all get along this time. If we have a repeat of the 2002-2005 farce that will just open the door to the NPA again in three years.

Sun, 2008-11-16 01:30

#20

Left Turn

Treetop wrote:

"Vision Vancouver is Not Progressive. Voting for Vision Vancouver is like voting for the Democratic Party in the US. It ammounts to giving up on progressive political struggle at the municipal level. "

That's bullshit and you know it.

I call bullshit on your bullshit. Vision Vancouver is a fraud, a trojan horse. It was created by that other trojan horse, Larry Campbell. It's time progressive voters in Vancouver stopped voting for trojan horses. It's also time that COPE woke up and stopped selling out to the trojan horse party.

Sun, 2008-11-16 01:44

#21

ghoris

I think Treetop deserves an answer to his/her earlier question - namely, are there any areas where COPE disagrees with Vision? Is there a single vote where Cadman voted differently than Vision? Cadman even voted for the Olympic bailout.

Looking at this election from a more cynical perspective, I have to say that it was masterful work on Robertson's part that he could pin all the blame for the Olympic Village debacle on Ladner and the NPA, when his own party members also voted for the bailout.

Sun, 2008-11-16 01:49

#22

ghoris

All polls but one are now in. Turnout was terrible - just over 30%.

Mayor: Robertson (VV) 58,090, Ladner (NPA) 41,796. Betty Krawczyk in third with a derisory 1,200 votes, barely ahead of Marc Emery and the "Nude Garden Party" candidate.

Council: Louie (VV), Deal (VV), Chow (VV), Jang (VV), Reimer (VV), Stevenson (VV), Cadman (COPE), Anton (NPA), Meggs (VV), Woodsworth (COPE).

Park Board: Barnes (VV), Jasper (VV), Blyth (VV), Woodcock (COPE), Hundal (VV), MacKinnon (Grn), Robertson (NPA).

School Board: Bacchus (VV), Lombardi (VV), Clement (VV), Gregson (VV), Wong (COPE), Blakey (COPE), Bouey (COPE), Denike (NPA). Carol Gibson (NPA) is only leading Bill Bargeman (COPE) by 16 votes for the ninth school board seat, so that last poll could be decisive (and there might have to be a recount).

A couple of interesting maps:

2008 election result

2005 election result

Sun, 2008-11-16 01:52

#23

Centrist

Congratulations Gregor and Vision Vancouver!

Exit polls showed Gregor receiving 55% to 39% for Ladner. Those same exit polls showed "homelessness" to be the number 1 issue.

Just to be realistic for a moment, I don't know how city council can end homelessness without provincial/federal financial assistance but that's for another day.

Yippee!

Sun, 2008-11-16 02:03

#24

Stockholm

Now let's get ready for the other shoe to drop and make Carol James Premier of BC!!

Sun, 2008-11-16 02:22

#25

ghoris

Indeed. Left-leaning or NDP-associated candidates did extremely well in Victoria, Vancouver and Burnaby. Left-leaning Surrey councillors Judy Villeneuve and Bob Bose were re-elected (interestingly, women won five of eight Surrey council seats, plus the mayoralty).

Although Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam bucked the trend by electing former Liberal MLAs as their mayors, overall tonight's results are not a good sign for Gordon Campbell.

Sun, 2008-11-16 02:24

#26

DrConway

Derek Corrigan et al increased BCA to 6/8 for council and cleared the school board completely.

Sun, 2008-11-16 02:55

#27

jozsef

Stockholm wrote:
Now let's get ready for the other shoe to drop and make Carol James Premier of BC!!

amen

Sun, 2008-11-16 02:57

#28

remind

Excellent!

___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"

Sun, 2008-11-16 03:38

#29

Treetop

ghoris wrote:

I think Treetop deserves an answer to his/her earlier question - namely, are there any areas where COPE disagrees with Vision? Is there a single vote where Cadman voted differently than Vision? Cadman even voted for the Olympic bailout.

Looking at this election from a more cynical perspective, I have to say that it was masterful work on Robertson's part that he could pin all the blame for the Olympic Village debacle on Ladner and the NPA, when his own party members also voted for the bailout.

And what did three years of not voting Vision get us? Promised social housing in False Creek? NOPE. Moratorium on SRO conversions? Think again! Homelessness? Waaay up.

But at least Geoff Plant makes $300k more a year. Congratualtions. There's progress for ya.

Sun, 2008-11-16 03:42

#30

Treetop

jozsef wrote:

Stockholm wrote:
Now let's get ready for the other shoe to drop and make Carol James Premier of BC!!

amen

First the by-elections, now this! Premire James next! and if all works out, perhaps Jack Layton will indeed becomes Prime Minister. (and my boss will owe me that promised day off work).

Sun, 2008-11-16 03:50

#31

Treetop

"Yes driving drunk down Davie St and hiding it from the media for close to a year certainly got him some news headlines."

Tim honestly feels bad about that. He does. And the few times I have seen him since then, I have not seen him drink.

Give him a break.

Lorne Mayencourt assualts homeless people. Why don't you comment on that?

Sun, 2008-11-16 04:31

#32

Left Turn

ghoris wrote:

I think Treetop deserves an answer to his/her earlier question - namely, are there any areas where COPE disagrees with Vision? Is there a single vote where Cadman voted differently than Vision? Cadman even voted for the Olympic bailout.

Ok, I acknowledge that Cadman did vote for the Olympics bailout. I'm not entirely sure what to make of ths point. David Cadman may have felt he had to vote in favour of the bailout to maintain his seat on council. He may also have felt that he had to maintain a common front with Vision due to the COPE sellout/compromise with Vision.

There are two factions in COPE. There is a left faction that opposed making a compromise with Vision, and supported running a full COPE slate, with 10 council candidates, and a mayoral candidate. Tim Louis is a prominent member of this faction. Then there is a more moderate faction, which supported a compromise with Vision. The unions had threatened to withdraw funding from COPE if it did not make a compromise with Vision, and the more moderate faction in COPE decided that maintaining union funding was the most important consideration. I don't agree.

The more moderate faction won a majority on the COPE executive at the june AGM. Following this, they entered into the sellout deal with Vision Vancouver, whereby COPE only got two council candidates, and no mayoral candidate.

The COPE executive also changed the nomination proceure for COPE candidates, to require that all candidates receive 50% +1 of the ballots cast at the nomination meeting. This meant that rather than the top two vote getters being the council candidates, there would have to bea runoff vote for the second council seat.

David Cadman got the most votes on the first ballot, and Tim Louis came second. Under the old nomination rules, Cadman and Louis would have been the council candidates. Under the new rules, there was a runoff vote for second place, and since the more moderate faction within COPE had a slight majority at the nomination meeting, Ellen Woodsworth beat out Tim Louis to become the second COPE council candidate.

The net result was not only a marginalization of COPE, but also a marginalization of the more principled left wing faction within COPE.

I suspect there is still a fair degree of opposition to the Olympics among COPE members, or at least former COPE members (I have heard through friends connected to COPE that much of the more left-wing faction of COPE has quit the party, although I'm not sure how accurate these statements are). I do not know exactly why COPE chose not to run on a platform of cancelling the Olympics, but suffice to say they have not.

Given the true reactionary nature of the Olympics (which is masterfully exposed in Chris Shaw's book "Five Ring Circus: Myths and Realities of the Olympic Games", the principled thing for the left to do would have been to run a campaign with a central plank of cancelling the 2010 Olympics.

I'm kinda going off on a bit of a rant here. Suffice to say, I would be perfrecly happy if the entire Olympics franchise ceased to exist, and there were no more Olympics. Whether or not the Olympics may have had positive ideal in the pas, they certainly don't have any now.

Sun, 2008-11-16 05:23

#33

Politics101

"Good riddance to that asshole Sam Sullivan and his gang of cronies
giving away the city to the developers for their thirty pieces of
silver.'

Dr Conway - your supporters on the left voted in camera to support the Olympic housing bailout - you seem to be pretty good a calling people A--Holes - first Lorne and now Sam.

As for Cope not having the guts to campaign on cancelling the Olympics - it wouldn't have matter as the City doesn't have the power to cancel the games and the citizens voted in a referemdum to support the Games.

Congrats to my friend Geoff Meggs on being elected to council.

Sun, 2008-11-16 05:38

#34

Treetop

"I do not know exactly why COPE chose not to run on a platform of cancelling the Olympics.."

Because there are much bigger fish to fry? As P101 mentioned, there was a referendum. Olympics won. Campagning against the Olympics now would be ridiculous. How about campaigning against the NPA's broken promises regarding the Olympics? Wait, we did. And we won.

Sun, 2008-11-16 06:58

#35

Treetop

"The unions had threatened to withdraw funding from COPE if it did not make a compromise with Vision"

They did? Which unions? Who told you this?

First past the post you want? Figures.

Sun, 2008-11-16 12:26

#36

V. Jara

It was a good night for the BC NDP. Across the province NDP affiliated candidates were elected. In Vancouver and Burnaby it was a blowout. Victoria has an NDP mayor after a decade of being run by a Federal Liberal. Left-wing councillors and school boards picked up the odd seats across the province. Provincially the BC Liberals have been on the defensive. They ordered a freeze on school closures and everyone (both NDP and Liberals, but for different reasons) is trying to pretend there will be no provincial budget deficit. This shaky contention may pass through the next provincial election unchallenged or it may not. If the NDP suceeds in making the BC Liberals wear the current turn down in the economy, they can win the election. The BC Liberals need to point to the NDP's "lack of a plan" and reckless spending promises to win.

Sun, 2008-11-16 12:26

#37

scott

Is there a site where I can get school board results for the Interior districts? CBC has mayor and council results but I can't find school board results anywhere.

Sun, 2008-11-16 12:43

#38

V. Jara

The NDP needs to hold on to all it's current seats (a serious task given some redistribution) and pick up six of the following to win:

Interior

Kamloops

Kamloops North Thompson

Prince George Omineca

Okanagan Shuswap

Vancouver Island

Comox Valley

Saanich North and the Islands

Parksville Qualicum

Oak Bay Gordon Head

The North

Bulkely Valley Stilkine

GVRD

Vancouver Fraserview

Burnaby North

Burnaby Willingdon

Maple Ridge Mission

Top targets: Comox Valley, both Burnaby seats, both Kamloops seats, Maple Ridge Mission.

If it's close, the election will be decided in Kamloops. The NDP needs to win at least 1 seat there.

Sun, 2008-11-16 12:44

#39

V. Jara

scott wrote:
Is there a site where I can get school board results for the Interior districts? CBC has mayor and council results but I can't find school board results anywhere.

As far as I'm aware, you have to go to the school district web pages individually.

Sun, 2008-11-16 12:47

#40

DrConway

Politics101 wrote:

"Good riddance to that asshole Sam Sullivan and his gang of cronies
giving away the city to the developers for their thirty pieces of
silver.'

Dr Conway - your supporters on the left voted in camera to support the Olympic housing bailout - you seem to be pretty good a calling people A--Holes - first Lorne and now Sam.

I was under the impression, from the news articles, that the NPA councillors (holding a majority at the time) rushed through the $100 million giveaway,

Sun, 2008-11-16 13:19

#41

ghoris

Left Turn's suggestion that COPE should have run on a platform of 'cancelling the Olympics' is sheer idiocy. What about all the money that has already been spent? The vast majority of the money has already been paid for things like the RAV line, the Sea-to-Sky upgrade, curling and speed skating venue, Olympic village, convention centre, etc etc. Why the hell would you spend billions building venues, and then cancel the event - your one chance to actually recoup some of the money you spent? Like I said, sheer idiocy.

Left Turn's "Let's Cancel The Olympics" attitude, and his/her endorsement of the laughable Work Less "Party", shows us why the hard-left Tim Louis/COPE Classic (what is laughably called a 'principled Left') position will never succeed in Vancouver and why it was so soundly rejected in 2005. It was the hard-left, ideologically-rigid prima donnas like Louis, Bass and Roberts that tarnished the image of COPE, wasted Council time on far-left ideological crusades, and generally kneecapped the ability of the 2002-2005 council to do anything. I'll be the first to say that Vision Vancouver and the so-called 'moderate faction' of COPE are not perfect and are going to have to be held accountable by the grassroots, but they're miles ahead of what this so-called 'left' faction/Marxist debating society/professional activist wing of COPE would bring us.

Sun, 2008-11-16 14:25

#42

Centrist

ghoris wrote:

Indeed. Left-leaning or NDP-associated candidates did extremely well in Victoria, Vancouver and Burnaby. Left-leaning Surrey councillors Judy Villeneuve and Bob Bose were re-elected (interestingly, women won five of eight Surrey council seats, plus the mayoralty).

Although Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam bucked the trend by electing former Liberal MLAs as their mayors, overall tonight's results are not a good sign for Gordon Campbell.

I wouldn't start reading too much from municipal election results into the provincial election. That's can be somewhat of a fools game and can be a worse template than trying to read federal election results into the provincial theatre.

Remember that in the City of Vancouver as a whole, the Cons received more votes than the NDP during the recent federal election. Did that have an impact upon the municipal results? No.

Former Liberal candidate/organizer Greg Moore won the mayor's seat in Port Coquitlam. Will that have an impact upon Mike Farnworth's chances? No.

Former Liberal MLA Ken Stewart won the Coquitlam mayor's chair over former Liberal candidate Maxine Wilson. Will that have an impact upon the NDP holding on to Coquitlam Maillardville? No.

Right-wing Maple Ridge mayoral candidate Ernie Daykin had a crushing win over incumbent Liberal Gordy Robson and former NDP MLA Sather. Will that have an impact upon the NDP's chances to hold Pitt Meadows-Maple Ridge? No.

Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts had a crushing win in Surrey along with her 6 Surrey First councillors as well as right-wing incumbent Hunt, and the lone centre-left SCC incumbent Bose.

Will that have an impact upon the NDP's chances of holding Surrey-Whalley, Green Timbers, and Newton? No.

New Kamloops right-wing mayor Peter Milobar had a crushing win over his rivals and the right-wing topped the councillors list. Will that have an impact upon the NDP winning Kamloops North-Thompson? No.

Strangely enough, when Surrey mayor Watts first ran in 2005 (also supported by the centre-left SCC), her right-wing rival, Doug MacCallum, only won the polls in the New Democrat territory of Newton/Green Timbers likely due to the support of the Indo-Canadian community.

OTOH, for years moderate New Democrat Beth Johnson was the mayor of Delta and gained the majority of her votes in small "c" conservative Tsawwassen and Ladner. Did that have an effect upon the Socreds ability to hold the Delta South seat? No.

Same with popular moderate New Democrat Greg Halsey-Brandt when he held the Richmond mayoral chair in centre-right Richmond (before he switched parties).

I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that the dynamics of federal/provincial/ and municipal elections and the voters decisions thereto tend to be completely different.

Sun, 2008-11-16 15:28

#43

New to New West

Loved the left wins in Vancouver and Burnaby.

I have mixed feelings about the situation in New Westminster. They should form a left-wing slate like Vision/COPE so you don't have weird stuff happen like Labour endorsing a right-wing, developer-loving, Conservative for Mayor.

Sun, 2008-11-16 16:00

#44

old_bolshie

I sense some desperation here from so called lefties-to be expected I suppose.

Sun, 2008-11-16 16:52

#45

New to New West

old bolshie,

Whose desperate? Are referring to me?

If so, why did you say that?

Sun, 2008-11-16 17:43

#46

Left Turn

Treetop wrote:

"The unions had threatened to withdraw funding from COPE if it did not make a compromise with Vision"

They did? Which unions? Who told you this?

I heard this from a friend who's a COPE member.

Sun, 2008-11-16 17:57

#47

Vansterdam Kid

ghoris wrote:

Left Turn's suggestion that COPE should have run on a platform of 'cancelling the Olympics' is sheer idiocy. What about all the money that has already been spent? The vast majority of the money has already been paid for things like the RAV line, the Sea-to-Sky upgrade, curling and speed skating venue, Olympic village, convention centre, etc etc. Why the hell would you spend billions building venues, and then cancel the event - your one chance to actually recoup some of the money you spent? Like I said, sheer idiocy.

Left Turn's "Let's Cancel The Olympics" attitude, and his/her endorsement of the laughable Work Less "Party", shows us why the hard-left Tim Louis/COPE Classic (what is laughably called a 'principled Left') position will never succeed in Vancouver and why it was so soundly rejected in 2005. It was the hard-left, ideologically-rigid prima donnas like Louis, Bass and Roberts that tarnished the image of COPE, wasted Council time on far-left ideological crusades, and generally kneecapped the ability of the 2002-2005 council to do anything. I'll be the first to say that Vision Vancouver and the so-called 'moderate faction' of COPE are not perfect and are going to have to be held accountable by the grassroots, but they're miles ahead of what this so-called 'left' faction/Marxist debating society/professional activist wing of COPE would bring us.

I agree that cancelling the Olympics would be ridiculous. And to be honest if COPE nominated Louis, I wouldn't have voted for him, even if it meant an NPA'er getting his seat. Especially since he was probably the Ying to Larry Campbell's Yang. Hell, if the hard-liners won out in COPE and they ran an entire slate (supposing Robertson still won nomination) I would've voted Vision across the board just to send them a message so that it wouldn't have happened again. But these are all ifs and let's not forget that the good guys and adults won.

So I was A) happy to see Woodsworth win the nomination and B) happy to see her pull it off near the end of the night when it looked like some NPA'er would've gotten in instead. But I'd be a little fairer to the Work Less Party. Yeah that picture of the guy biting the record is corny, but they have some interesting ideas and if some of the Vision councillors I had reservations voting for (read Stevenson and Meggs) or anyone else for that matter pops up I wouldn't be completely opposed to throwing them a protest vote (at least if they have some serious candidates). They brought up a lot of cultural issues that others weren't, including things that might seem minotonous like why it's so difficult for friendly neighbourhood pubs aren't able to open up, since they help contribute to the vitality of neighbourhoods. And I wouldn't say they're part of the Louis-Bass etc etc far-left. I think they're just largely contrarians, some are far left, but some are more moderate green-left types. I just think some on the far left are unhappy that the pragmatists in Vision and COPE won out, managed to work together, then have that strategy vindicated by the public. These my-way-or-the-highway people always exist, but they're usually a small minority. Let's not get side tracked on how overall it was a good ole fashioned butt kicking.

Anyways, I'd sense that Robertson should have a better time in maintaining Council solidarity than Owen, Campbell and Sullivan. I'd say this because A) he's in the middle ideologically between say the most left-wing councillor (probably Woodsworth) and the most right-wing Vision councillor (maybe Chow - though these terms are relative as I'd charachterize them all as at least slightly to the left of centre). This is different from Campbell who was at best a red Liberal, at worst a blue one - but always an egomaniac. That and he already succeded in uniting with Louie, while getting COPE, and to a lesser but still significant extent the Greens on board. It remains to be seen whether or not he'll be able to do that during his term(s) in office, but hopefully he can. He seems to be less of an egomaniac than our last two mayors and I don't think he's as vulnerable to a coup d'etat as our last two NPA mayors.

Just one note, Centrist warned against reading too much into the tea leaves for the provincial election. This is a wise percaution, but just to disregard it for a second, I'd say that Vancouver-False Creek is a seat the NDP shouldn't over look either.

P.S. I heard that the Unions threatned to cut off funding to COPE and Vision too, if they didn't get along. If that's true, I'd say that's great otherwise we could've ended up with another NPA Mayor and Council.

Sun, 2008-11-16 20:17

#48

skarredmunkey

Vansterdam Kid wrote:
But I'd be a little fairer to the Work Less Party. Yeah that picture of the guy biting the record is corny, but they have some interesting ideas and if some of the Vision councillors I had reservations voting for (read Stevenson and Meggs) or anyone else for that matter pops up I wouldn't be completely opposed to throwing them a protest vote (at least if they have some serious candidates).

Agreed completely with you on this. I actually don't oppose the Olympics, but I would sooner vote for a couple of honest Work Less Party activists with concerns about the Olympics, the environment, homelessness and quality of life issues in the city, than the Raymond Louie/Tim Stevenson wing of Vision Vancouver. And so I did for all the good it did me.

Sun, 2008-11-16 21:55

#49

NorthReport

My hunch is that this could be the end of COPE.

Given the opportunity, unless someone can give me a good reason why not, I would probably vote to dissolve the organization.

Mon, 2008-11-17 00:53

#50

Vansterdam Kid

skarredmunkey wrote:

Vansterdam Kid wrote:
But I'd be a little fairer to the Work Less Party. Yeah that picture of the guy biting the record is corny, but they have some interesting ideas and if some of the Vision councillors I had reservations voting for (read Stevenson and Meggs) or anyone else for that matter pops up I wouldn't be completely opposed to throwing them a protest vote (at least if they have some serious candidates).
Agreed completely with you on this. I actually don't oppose the Olympics, but I would sooner vote for a couple of honest Work Less Party activists with concerns about the Olympics, the environment, homelessness and quality of life issues in the city, than the Raymond Louie/Tim Stevenson wing of Vision Vancouver. And so I did for all the good it did me.

When I re-read my last post I had to question whether or not I know the English language. Just to make it clear, I didn't actually vote for any of the WLP candidates. Partially cause I wasn't sure about some of their candidates, didn't know enough about the ones I didn't think were strange, and partially cause I wanted to see the NPA get shut out. So I held my nose and vote for the guys [url=http://www.straight.com/print/170453?]Charlie Smith[/url] calls the"Kingsway NDP Mafia." But I'm glad the WLP ran, and hope they continue to stick around and articulate their ideas. That way if people in the "Kingsway NDP Mafia" try to torpedo Robertson, I'll have a way to tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. I'm optomistic they won't, but who knows, the BC and Vancouver left has a tendency to eat its own.

Mon, 2008-11-17 02:30

#51

ghoris

Vansterdam Kid wrote:

Just one note, Centrist warned against reading too much into the tea leaves for the provincial election. This is a wise percaution, but just to disregard it for a second, I'd say that Vancouver-False Creek is a seat the NDP shouldn't over look either.

Agree wholeheartedly. Ladner managed to win but one lonely Yaletown poll - otherwise it was wall-to-wall Robertson all around False Creek. People active in the BC NDP (and on this board) should take note, when you actually go after the votes in Yaletown, Coal Harbour and False Creek, and have an appealing candidate with a message and vision, rather than, say, calling everyone who lives there a "rich asshole" or "yuppie scum", progressive-minded candidates can actually do quite well there.

Discussion of Vancouver municipal vote: NPA swept out of power

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