Quebec election to follow federal election

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Fri, 2008-11-21 19:05

toddsschneider

Trailing badly, PQ pitches stronger language law: New version of Bill 101 would force smaller firms with 50 or fewer employees to operate in French

http://tinyurl.com/645cze

MONTREAL–Three decades ago, Quebec's controversial language law, Bill 101, helped spark a kind of linguistic war that hurt the province economically, and eventually led to the exodus of hundreds of thousands of anglophones ...

Yesterday, in a bid to rally members of the party's sovereignist base – some of whom are frustrated Marois has put sovereignty on the backburner – the leader proposed that Quebec update provisions of Bill 101, originally put in place by her party in 1977 ...

Former PQ language minister Louise Beaudoin, who is a candidate in this election, said new immigrants would be expected to learn French, and, after three years, the government would only communicate with them in French ...

Sat, 2008-11-22 23:06

#103

Kinetix

Well, I received my lit drop today from Serge Mongeau, and I have to tell you it's a bit of a lit drop let down. I voted QS in the last provincial election but won't be in the current one.

Serge dedicated a only half page in the pamphlet to the following topics: Improvement of the local community, public transit, social housing, public healthcare, green employment, and mandatory minimum income. The entire remainder of the pamphlet was dedicated to sovereignty, and he calls for an immediate referendum supporting separation "as of tomorrow." He claims that making Quebec an ecologically progressive society is only possible without a higher level of government, which is as ridiculous as those who claimed French wineries would be destroyed by joining the EU.

I *really* *really* *really* want a constructive, progressive voice to represent me, but I need that voice to be co-operative. I don't need another deconstructionist, another xenophobe, another opponent-cause-célebre who sees themself as part of an insular-by-necessity, attacked clan as opposed to a part of a global community.

I feel really deflated right now. This wasn't the way it way supposed to work out. :(

Sat, 2008-11-22 23:14

#104

Unionist

Kinetix wrote:

The entire remainder of the pamphlet was dedicated to sovereignty, and he calls for an immediate referendum supporting separation "as of tomorrow."

[u][url=http://www.freewebs.com/qs-homa/election2008/nos-propositions.htm#souver... website[/url][/u], like Québec solidaire itself, calls for the election of a constituent assembly to determine Québec's future. But I see nothing about an immediate referendum nor of "separation", notwithstanding his blaming of Canada as imposing various ills on Québec by virtue of its status as a province (war, tar sands instead of Kyoto, and genetically modified products).

Just for my curiosity, would you mind quoting the portion of the leaflet where he talks about an immediate referendum?

Sat, 2008-11-22 23:26

#105

Kinetix

The relevant paragraph reads "Nous proposons donc l'élection d'une assemblée constituante pour que l'ensemble du peuple québécois ait son mot à dire dans l'élaboration du projet social qui fera la Québec souverain, dés demain."

Translated, this reads as "I propose an election of a representative assembly for Quebeckers, so they as a people can have their say as part of the social project that is a seperate Quebec, starting tomorrow."

Sat, 2008-11-22 23:48

#106

Unionist

Ummmmm, sorry Kinetix, the paragraph says nothing whatsoever about a "referendum" (as I suspected it wouldn't) and it says nothing about a "separate" Québec either. Where did you get the impression that a people can't express its sovereignty and decide not to establish a separate state? It may decide to remain within a federation, or negotiate new terms for such an association.

By the way, it's "constituent assembly", not "representative assembly".

Translation is an important art, but it ought not to be done too creatively.

Sun, 2008-11-23 00:09

#107

lagatta

well, there are other possible translations about "le Québec souverain".

"Seperate Québec" is a very poor translation. It could mean "independent Québec", but it could also refer to the nation as sovereign, that is determining its future, whether or not that involved federal or any other ties.

And why on earth did you change "we propose" to "I propose"?

An "assemblée constituante" is not the same thing as a "representative assembly". Reverso translates it as "constituent assembly" And it is not "Quebecers" (QuébécoisEs) but the Québec/Québécois people as a whole. Élaboration refers to developing. (Reverso is based on the Collins dictionaries and is an excellent online multilingual dictionary site).

Constituent assembly is a perfectly valid historical term in English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituent_Assembly

The idea is grassroots democracy.

I wouldn't dream of telling anyone for whom to vote, but this makes me very sad. I don't get why we are being accused of being xenophobes, with an Iranian as one of the co-spokespersons, gender parity and many candidates from different cultural communities. Sure, Françoise is my candidate right here in Gouin, but if I walk a few blocks in any direction from my house, the candidates are Amir, May Chiu, and Ruba Ghazal.

ADQ are the xenophobes, and at long last people seem to be making them a laughing stock.

Sun, 2008-11-23 00:16

#108

Kinetix

Calm down. I'm not interested in shouting anyone down, or for that matter, being shouted down. I'm stating what I've received today in my mailbox and I'm venting some legitimate frustration at what I'm reading. Those here who are bilingual are prefectly capable of making their interpretation of the above paragraph.

I'm not going to type out the whole page of the pamphlet. One doesn't have to take creative liberties with the word "souveraineté." It has only ever meant one thing in the Québec electoral context. I'm not an idiot and I'm really not interested in playing semantics. If M. Mongeau was serious about the real issues at stake, he would have dedicated more space in his pamphlet to them than a brief billboard for each issue representing change and an entire page for discussion of sovereignty. Instead, he (or his campaign staff) has chosen to focus on old ideas in order to appeal more to those that he thinks would vote for him in this riding. I think it's a mistaken, shortsighted strategy.

You may disagree. I guess we shall see if his strategy gets them elected. I'm just saying that I'm not convinced, and that's unfortunate, because I have been a QS supporter in the past and would truly like to be a QS supporter now. It's time for some progressive changes here, but instead of elaborating what those changes would be they are practically condensed to bullet points.

Wrapping equality in the language of inequality is a little like wrapping aspergus with bacon. It's delicious to some but it won't make you any stronger.

Sun, 2008-11-23 00:23

#109

lagatta

Hope they are capable of interpreting it, as there were gross errors in your translation.

What inequality?

Nobody is shouting you down - unionist and I simply happened to post at the same time. No concertation between us.

Sun, 2008-11-23 00:25

#110

Kinetix

Lagatta, that response was type before I read your response. Please accept my apologies. Reading we as I is a simple mistake to make when translating pronouns and I apologize. I seem to remember that you yourself do not speak English or French as a first language and I'm sure that you understand how easy it is to make a simple mistake. Even so, I do not believe that this difference in object does not significantly affect the meaning.

While there is an argument to be made in the interpretation, I think we can agree that there is a definite appeal to nationalist sentiment here, and I don't find that attractive in any candidate whether they be provincial or federal. I could say that a homeless person does not care what country they are in; there are more important issues to be concerned about.

I agree that the ADQ are the xenophobes. I do not truly believe that M. Mongeau is one at all, rahter, I think that the choice of language and priorities indicated in his pamphlet were a poor choice made in order to take advantage of populist language to attract votes which otherwise would have gone to less progressive candidates. I hope I am right in this, but I do not think it is inappropriate for me to be concerned.

Thu, 2008-11-27 09:46

#111

toddsschneider

Questions for the parties about English schooling in Quebec

http://tinyurl.com/6hn3y9

If elected, what will your party do to strengthen and support the
role of publicly elected school boards in the province? More
specifically, how will your party address the concerns of English
school boards with respect to the election of chairs by universal
suffrage and the possibility of twinning school and municipal elections?

What will your party do to ensure the future stability of Quebec's English public school network across Quebec?

Will your party commit, unconditionally, to delivering future
English textbooks at the very same time as those made available in the
French sector?

What will your party do to provide Quebec's English public schools
with the tools they need to address their particular challenges?

What ideas might your party put forward to ensure better
collaboration between English and French public schools and school
boards?

Wed, 2008-12-03 00:24

#112

Ken Burch

Will start a continuation thread, since this one is now at 112 posts and likely to be closed, well, somewhat soon.

As a beloved Alaskan stateswoman would put it, "Here Ya Go!"

http://rabble.ca/babble/central-canada/quebec-election-partie-deux

______________________________________________________________________________________________
Our Demands Most Moderate are/
We Only Want The World!
-James Connolly

Wed, 2008-12-03 00:56

#113

Ken Burch

At this point, how many candidates has QS nominated and how many more does it plan to nominate? I know there's not going to be a QS government, but it would be interesting to note what percentage of Quebecers will be given the opportunity to vote QS.

Quebec election to follow federal election

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