Chretien, Broadbent brokering possible coalition

The idea of selling substantial government assets into a market where others may need to unload assets is stupid on three counts:

1) a value for money point of view -- less money can be realized from these assets than if the government waited.

2) the market will have to absorb the sale and as private money goes to buy the government assets other private asset prices will fall (basic supply and demand theory).

3) a fire sale of government assets now sends the worng message and panic into markets.

 

The limiting of collective agreement rights, rollbacks and loss or right to strike is also a bad message to send now to consumers who work for the government and as leadership fro provincial governmetns to follow.

 As the G20 leaders stated- stimulus only works if everyone is working in the same direction this undermines to a small degree (as Canada is not significant) efforts agreed to by other nations. For Canadians this also undermines provincial efforts to stimulate their economies because leanign in the opposite way from the feds is a recipea for disaster.

 I hope that the Liberals New Democrats and BQ come to an agreement on an agenda and end this-- before the Cons for their own political and idealogical agenda do more damage.

aka Mycroft wrote:

Canadian Press

 

Quote:

Chretien was seen on his way to his downtown Ottawa office, but when asked about the coalition talks he feigned an inability to understand English.

"Je ne comprends pas anglais," he said.

 

 

Ha! This has to be the funniest thing I have seen all week.

Smoke.  Mirrors.  Sound. Fury.  Signifying nothing.

 

I'll believe the coalition when I see it.

What would be interesting if Layton gets the PM - or coalition leader position as a way to bring the BQ and Liberals together.

 Keep Hope Alive.

 

I have to say that this whole episode has caused me to feel a wave a revulsion at the Tories that goes beyond anything I ever felt before. I feel like we are being ruled by a bunch of Ayn Rand-quoting 25 year olds who think they are amateur Karl Roves.

The idea that in the midst of all this crisis - the first thing they would try to do is to gratuitously drive all the opposition parties into bankruptcy is really beyond the pale.

If FDR and Churchill were able to make a deal with Stalin in order to rid the world of Hitler - surely the NDP, Liberals and BQ can cook something up to get rid of this government of psychopaths before they do even more damage. 

Here are some of the conditions the NDP is apparently posing:

- One-third of the cabinet seats

- Some important portfolios (Environment, Finance)

- A repeal of the planned corporate tax cuts

That last comment is interesting.

 I can see why no Dion, but why no Rae?  Is Layton angling to have Ignatieff installed, so as to free up room on the left for the NDP?

Giving the NDP the Finance ministry might spook the markets more than they have already. Does the NDP have anyone in their caucus that would appeal to Bay Street?

They could have environment but as I stated in another thread perhaps in an effort to get Dion to move out of the Liberal leadership you could offer him that ministry since the subject  is dear to him and he would be reporting to a different master.

As for the repeal of the Corporate tax cuts - why would you repeal the tax cuts and then turn around and give loans to the Big 3 Auto makers and the Forestry companies. Either way it will cost the taxpayer money

To benefit from a tax cut you have to have a profit in the first place. The Big Three are all losing money so its not as if they would be getting a tax cut in the first place.

 Tom Mulcair is the NDP Finance Critic and a former cabinet minister in the Charest gov't in Quebec. What better person in the NDP to reassure financial markets?

Suddenly Dippers who were repulsed by the idea of a coalition with the evil Liberals (Harper enablers, they were called) during the election are enthralled with a coalition today. Of course, I am too.  BUt then I argued the left can only come to power through coaltions both official and unofficial; at the leadership level and at the grassroots level.

I like this from my friend Stockholm:

Quote:

I have to say that this whole episode has caused me to feel a wave a revulsion at the Tories that goes beyond anything I ever felt before. I feel like we are being ruled by a bunch of Ayn Rand-quoting 25 year olds who think they are amateur Karl Roves.

So much like debating politics on babble with mindlessly partisan party-firsters (and lasters) like himself. 

Where's our resident NFU guy on this (I've become  an associate member by the way)? I assume he must be mad as hell and marching to Ottawa to take Broadbent by the collar and tell him no way on earth will honest, salt-of-the-earth, hard working NDPers join arms with self-interested, sell-out, namby-pamby Liberals. I'm absolutley sure that's what he would say.

This would be a great time to revisit some of those threads, wouldn't it?   

 

FM, as I said before timing is everything.

I will always  be consistent on this: the NDP should not talk deals or coalition with other parties during an election and should always talk deals and coalition if there is a chance to make policy afterwards. There is absolutely nothing inconsistent with this position. There is somethign inconsistent about pretending to be different parties and makng pre-vote agreements. It is always appropirate to let voters have their say and then construct the best result possible with what the voters elected.

 

So you can see this is why I opposed your idea of coalition in September but agree with a coalition in November: that minor detail of an election in between.

And totally different than merging into a coalition during an election.  This is taking the cards dealt by Canadians and working with them.  In a minority parliament this is EXACTLY the kind of thing I would expect leaders to do and something Harper just does not get.

Glad to read you have seen the light on the NFU though! 

Another thing the two parties are probably discussing would be just what would be considered a confidence vote - I also think that the GG would want some assurance that whatever arrangement is agree upon would have to have some staying power.

 

 

So. That "idiot" Alice Klien might have been right after all.

How

hell

that

Frustrated Mess wrote:

Suddenly Dippers who were repulsed by the idea of a coalition with the evil Liberals (Harper enablers, they were called) during the election are enthralled with a coalition today. Of course, I am too.  BUt then I argued the left can only come to power through coaltions both official and unofficial; at the leadership level and at the grassroots level.

There is a big difference between before election coalitions and after election coalitions. And the Liberals were Harper enablers, and were called such, correctly so.

Quote:

Where's our resident NFU guy on this (I've become  an associate member by the way)? I assume he must be mad as hell and marching to Ottawa to take Broadbent by the collar and tell him no way on earth will honest, salt-of-the-earth, hard working NDPers join arms with self-interested, sell-out, namby-pamby Liberals. I'm absolutley sure that's what he would say

Funny that you would disparage BA this way, especially given the fact that the Liberals can hardly be sell outs during a coalition government. Moreover, I believe that you should not be appropriating BA's voice as to what he would say in this respect and that it is absolute BS on your part to bring someone into this thread, who has not participated, in order to disparage them.

Quote:

This would be a great time to revisit some of those threads, wouldn't it? 

Why? As you believe that you could get a "pound of salt". In fact, BA has never said the words,  that I have read, to which you attribute to him. Moreover, he never once ruled out a notion of a coalition government after the election.

___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"

CBC is now reporting that the Liberals are going to introduce a motion to bring down the government on Monday and that there is some sort of deal in place that will see Dion lead a coalition government.

This is so fabulous.  I know it sucks that it can't be a pure NDP government, but this is as close as it's gonna get, this millennium at least!  Just think of the influence the NDP could have on the budget, on social programs...this is really good news if it happens.

This would do it

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081127/Tories_fisc...

 

e Liberal Opposition plans to introduce a motion on Monday that
proposes a governing coalition and declares non-confidence in the
weeks-old Conservative government, according to a report.

The Canadian Press reported news of the motion as representatives
for the Liberals, New Democrats and Bloc Quebecois met to discuss the
possibility of forming a coalition government.

CTV's Ottawa Bureau chief Robert Fife broke the news on Friday
morning that former Liberal prime minister Jean Chretien and former NDP
leader Ed Broadbent were meeting to discuss toppling the government and
forming a coalition.

If the opposition parties can agree to a "viable Liberal-NDP
coalition with the support of the Bloc Quebecois" then there is a very
strong likelihood that they might try to defeat the government,' Fife
reported on Friday afternoon.

The Liberal motion, which has the approval of the NDP and Bloc Quebecois, reads:

"In light of the government's failure to recognize the seriousness
of Canada's economic situation and its failure in particular to present
any credible plan to stimulate the Canadian economy and to help workers
and businesses in hard-pressed sectors such as manufacturing, the
automotive industry and forestry, this House has lost confidence in
this government and is of the opinion that a viable alternative
government can be formed within the present House of Commons."

If this happens, it will be such a HUGE slap in the face to the Harperites!  Not to mention to Harper, personally.  You can bet this was his gamble to make, his over-confidence leading the action.

 

The CBC article suggests Harper could still hold on via "procedural tactics" but does not offer up an explanation of what they may be...

I suspect the Cons will try to retain power at any cost. Maybe they'll call on their grassroots supprters this weekend to lay seige to Parliament Hill, blocking the Opposition from getting to the HoC for the confidence vote Monday. Maybe Harper will even call on the military to restore order.

Let's not get hysterical.

 I don't want to count the chickens before they hatch, but my sense of this being a bad idea has given way to anticipation of watching the Cons fall all over themselves.  I really hope our hopes aren't dashed.

Work this out and send out Broadbent, and even Chretien to sell it is my advice.

Not Cretien. He's funny, but not exactly a man who invokes trust.