In Terms of Human Rights, Nobody Teaches Anything to Cuba

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Wed, 2008-12-10 13:15

It's Me D

I just read the following interview and although its hardly breaking news I thought I'd post it up and at the same time try launching a new thread for the first time on the new babble.

In Terms of Human Rights, Nobody Teaches Anything to Cuba - PRAVDA.RU

PRAVDA wrote:

PRAVDA.Ru: On the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the adoption and proclamation of the Universal Declaration of Human rights by the UNO (on 10th December 1948), it is necessary to remember that Cuba was invited to join the UN Council of Human Rights by the General Assembly of the United Nations on 9th May 2006, against the will of Washington. For some reason it was…

Jorge Castro Benitez: Yes, and precisely this question of human rights has been systematically manipulated by the United States of America against Cuba. In the course fifty years, the governments of the USA have been launching diplomatic, military and commercial attacks against Cuba, a constant aggression that has not been seen in any other part of the world. They manipulate the sources of information in such a way that information agencies rarely say the whole truth about Cuba.

For example, the great social failings that existed before in Cuba demanded on the part of the Revolution a very strong answer on behalf of human rights and the elimination of attacks on the human condition. The Cuban Revolution removed racial discrimination that was strongly taking root in Cuban society. The Cuban Revolution removed nepotism, removed discrimination against women, removed political corruption, removed illiteracy, removed the lack of health care and the lack of access to public utilities and removed chronic unemployment in Cuba. Well, so now they are going to point the finger at Cuba and talk about human rights?

PRAVDA.Ru: Who, in the international community, remembers being told of these great victories of the Cuban Revolution? Little or nothing is said in the western press on the political system in Cuba for example.

J. Castro Benitez: Neither do they say anything on the financial and logistical support to organizations and terrorist attacks perpetrated by the USA on Cuba over the years, the hundreds of attempts made on Fidel’s life, the use of mercenaries to destroy the social and civil life in Cuba, to spread disorder, the inhuman and illegal blockade and the use of the diplomatic machine in Washington to influence partners in the international community against Cuba, entirely because of the first military defeat suffered by the United States of America in the Bay of the Pigs in 1961.

Cont...

Now I've heard President Elect Obama say a few things about positive as opposed to (the classically American) negative rights, and I know that he's supposedly big on addressing racism, etc. but does anyone think that Cuba will finally be getting the respect it deserves under the new US administration?

Wed, 2008-12-10 18:20

Doug

Probably not. Florida wasn't as close as it seemed it might be, but it was still close enough that the Obama administration isn't going to want to ignore the Cuban community there.

Wed, 2008-12-10 18:36

Fidel

Doug wrote:
Probably not. Florida wasn't as close as it seemed it might be, but it was still close enough that the Obama administration isn't going to want to ignore the Cuban community there.

How can he ignore them? Cuba is the only country in the world with representation in American government.

Wed, 2008-12-10 18:49

Slumberjack

It's Me D wrote:

PRAVDA wrote:
Jorge Castro Benitez:......The Cuban Revolution removed nepotism....

Wed, 2008-12-10 19:16

Fidel

Ya, and our largest trade pardners want another U.S.-backed mafia regime in Havana to restore transparent and accountable government.

Thu, 2008-12-11 00:07

old_bolshie

Visiting Cuba is certainly surreal, I mean I've seen poverty aplenty in my life but the fortitude of Cubans in the face of such bruising crippling oppression is something else.

On some level it's just a nation of zombies I guess you have to be to survive living on a prison island like that.

I reserve my strongest scorn to those who would travel there for the express purpose of using the poor for prostituton-of course that doesn't apply to just Cuba.

Thu, 2008-12-11 00:28

Fidel

7 nights at Tropicoco nr Havana starting at $535 (CAD) all inclusive

[url=http://www.sunwing.ca/Cuba-Travel/Santiago-De-Cuba-Vacation-Packages.asp...

Fly direct from Sault Ste Marie Ontario to Havana with SunWing

Thu, 2008-12-11 02:09

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

old_bolshie wrote:

On some level it's just a nation of zombies I guess you have to be to survive living on a prison island like that.

I'm still waiting for you to make a post on babble that is even remotely progressive in content. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are just a right-wing troll attempting to "pass" with a left-sounding screen name.

What you are reading now is an annoying and obtrusive tag line. Why not Email Michelle to demand that signature/tag lines be abolished forthwith? I'm sure she would appreciate your support for this initiative.

Thu, 2008-12-11 06:32

Manitoba Girl

The right not to be executed is the highest human right there can ever be, and Cuba and the USA both have the death penalty. Therefore there's not really much difference between the two when it comes to fundamental (basic) human rights.

Thu, 2008-12-11 07:00

#10

Fidel

Manitoba Girl wrote:
The right not to be executed is the highest human right there can ever be, and Cuba and the USA both have the death penalty. Therefore there's not really much difference between the two when it comes to fundamental (basic) human rights.

Except that Cuba is a long way from becoming a conveyer belt of death that is Florida or Texas or Alabama etc.

Cubans regret having the death penalty and executing a handful of people, but it has worked to curb the number of plane hijackings originating in Cuba and bound for the U.S. The Americanos were welcoming violent terrorists from Cuba with an open arms policy.

In the U.S., they execute mentally handicapped people.

Crime statistics say one in seven Americans on death row will be innocent.

And they withold the right to vote from incarcerated citizens who've committed non-violent crimes and even petty crimes. Over six million Americans are embroiled in the legal system in one way or another and cannot vote. Voting is considered a basic human right in over 80 nations.

Thu, 2008-12-11 07:21

#11

Manitoba Girl

Fidel wrote:

Cubans regret having the death penalty

Not so much as the people being executed, me thinks.

Ta.

Thu, 2008-12-11 07:48

#12

Ghislaine

Fidel wrote:

7 nights at Tropicoco nr Havana starting at $535 (CAD) all inclusive

[url=http://www.sunwing.ca/Cuba-Travel/Santiago-De-Cuba-Vacation-Packages.asp...

Fly direct from Sault Ste Marie Ontario to Havana with SunWing

There is something about staying a four star resort, while surrounded by people who cannot and will not be able to afford it that does not sit right with me... Why not encourage people to go on a volunteer mission or at least on a trip that does not involve carbon-spewing jumbo jets. I think the US should stop badgering Cuba, but Cuba needs to find a way to survive that is not dependent on the unsustainability of constant flights and excessive tourism. Canadians also need to begin to understand that a week south has environmental consequences.

Anyways, are ads allowed to be posted on babble in threads?

Thu, 2008-12-11 08:10

#13

It's Me D

Manitoba Girl wrote:
The right not to be executed is the highest human right there can ever be, and Cuba and the USA both have the death penalty. Therefore there's not really much difference between the two when it comes to fundamental (basic) human rights.

I'm not getting into your comparison of Cuba and the USA, I just quoted the whole statement to respond to your claim that "the right not to be executed is the highest human right." I totally disagree with you on that; the length of life is not nearly so important as its quality. I can't actually think of any right that I'd place lower in importance than the right to not be executed.

Sure you can respond with something like "you wouldn't say that if you were one of those about to be executed" but frankly you have no way to know that.

There have been many principled stands which placed a lesser value of the length of life than its contents, even the New Hampshire state motto comes to mind. A long life bereft of human rights is much worse than a rich life cut short by execution.

Thu, 2008-12-11 09:18

#14

lagatta

I certainly stand up for Cuba against US and other imperialisms, but the death penalty is inexcusable. Shame on you Fidel for making excuses for it.

Many strong leftwing defenders of Cuba sharply criticised it for those state murders. In particular the trade-union movement in Italy, and ALL left parties, from the moderate to far left, including all former factions of the CP. Opposition to the death penalty is a major movement in Italy, among "l'area comunista" and "l'area cattolica" alike.

Ghislaine, Cuba is one of the closest destinations with dependable warm weather. I certainly hope that technology can make travel there more sustainable, but I'm not prepared to scuttle all air travel. Ideally, one would take a high-speed train down through the US and then a boat over, but some of us can't even enter the US, which still has an "enemies" list. Yes, tourism isn't a good basis for an economy, but on this point I'll really get on board with the Cuba cheering section (though I'm opposed to uncritical support of any country). The problem there is the US embargo.

Cuba has made great strides in terms of social rights and economic equality, in fighting racism and even sexism to some extent. But it does still have shortcomings in terms of speech and press freedom, and "socialism form below" aka workers' democracy.

Thu, 2008-12-11 12:08

#15

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Raul Castro has [url=http://blogs.amnestyusa.org/death-penalty/archive/2008/04/30/cuba-ceases... all death sentences[/url], except for three terrorists.

Quote:
"This decision [to commute] was not undertaken because of pressure, but as a sovereign act in line with the humanitarian and ethical conduct that has characterized the Cuban revolution from the start," said Raul Castro. He also noted that party leader Fidel Castro supports -when favorable conditions exist- the elimination of the death penalty for any type of crime and opposes the extrajudicial methods that some well-known countries shamelessly practice. He clarified that this agreement by the Council of State does not mean the elimination of capital punishment in the Cuban Penal Code, noting that under current circumstances the country [should not] dismantle itself before an empire that has not ceased to harass and attack the island.

[b]Just 3 people have been executed since 2000, all of them involved in a failed 2003 boat hijacking.[/b] Now 3 men remained in death row: Salvadoran nationals Raúl Ernesto Cruz and Otto René Rodríguez, who were sentenced to death in 1999, and Cuban citizen Humberto Eladio Real. The two Salvadoran citizens were convicted of carrying out a string of terrorist bombings in tourism establishments in Havana in the summer of 1997, one of which resulted in the death of an Italian businessman. While the Cuban citizen, Real, was arrested in 1994 after illegally landing in Cuba and murdering a man in order to steal his car. He was sentenced for crimes against the security of the state, homicide and the illegal use of firearms.

Cuba's penal code establishes the death penalty for crimes against the country's external security, including acts aimed at undermining its independence or territorial integrity, the promotion of armed actions against Cuba, aiding the enemy, and espionage. Capital punishment was also reserved in Cuba for the most serious cases of homicide, rape, sexual abuse of minors involving violence, robbery involving violence and intimidation, and crimes in which corruption serves as an aggravating factor. But the death penalty cannot be applied in the case of people under 20 or women who were pregnant at the time the crime was committed or when the sentence was handed down. In practice, no woman has been executed since the 1959 revolution.

Comparisons with the USA are absurd.

Thu, 2008-12-11 12:19

#16

Jingles

Quote:
On some level it's just a nation of zombies I guess you have to be to survive living on a prison island like that.

Who won the "So You Think You Can Dance" show? I've been so busy watching various sporting contests that I missed that vitally important event.

Thu, 2008-12-11 13:24

#17

kropotkin1951

I think the death penalty is inexcusable full stop. Canada had a long history where it had a death penalty that was never enforced. That is totally different than a country like the Excited States where there seems to be a pathological belief in the idea that the death penalty deters violent crime. I wish Canada didn't lock up sick grandmothers for protesting so I have little to say about Cuba.

I know many people who have travelled throughout Cuba on their own and they had mostly good experiences.

Thu, 2008-12-11 13:50

#18

Hoodeet

How can he ignore them? Cuba is the only country in the world with representation in American government.

[/quote]
Hoodeet (JW)

Don't forget Israel.

Thu, 2008-12-11 14:03

#19

Fidel

Manitoba Girl wrote:
Fidel wrote:

Cubans regret having the death penalty

Not so much as the people being executed, me thinks.

Ta.

I think if you can avoid hijacking passenger planes from Cuba to Miami or even New York for example, you should be a-okay.

Thu, 2008-12-11 14:48

#20

lagatta

That isn't the point. I don't think anyone on this board is contesting the gravity of the crimes. Or comparing Cuba to the United States. The point is, civilised countries have eliminated the death penalty. Cuba, which has made great social progress in other fields, should join their ranks.

Except for promotion of armed actions, the rest of this could be used against peaceful dissidents: "including acts aimed at undermining its independence or territorial integrity, the promotion of armed actions against Cuba, aiding the enemy, and espionage". Scary.

Personally, I think eliminating the death penalty would do far more to "disarm" US propaganda than maintaining it could. Just as Cuban health care, medical missions and doctor training do. Cuba couldn't possibly win a fighting war against the US on its own; it depends on many forms of support and resistance throughout the world.

Thu, 2008-12-11 15:12

#21

Fidel

lagatta wrote:
Personally, I think eliminating the death penalty would do far more to "disarm" US propaganda than maintaining it could. Just as Cuban health care, medical missions and doctor training do. Cuba couldn't possibly win a fighting war against the US on its own; it depends on many forms of support and resistance throughout the world.

I think announcing a reversal of the law could spark violent hijackings, the way it was before. There needs to be a clear commitment from the Americans for a clear policy to punish violent hijackers and would-be terrorists flying hijacked planes from Cuba to the U.S. Someone in Homeland Security isnt doing their job for whatever reasons politically expedient or otherwise.

Viva La Revolución

Thu, 2008-12-11 16:05

#22

lagatta

I think the Cuban Revolution was a great moment in the history of the Americas, and a wonderful blow against the empire, that has an ongoing impact to this day. (Though I disagree with the idea that the Cuban Revolution is still ongoing; I think that denatures the definition of a revolution and is a bit of a mystification).

I can't understand your support for the death penalty, which really seems counter to our principles as socialists.

Sure, if there is a war, nobody is challenging a country's right to defend itself against armed invasion. But the Cuban bureacracy is extending this right to self-defence to absurd lengths.

Thu, 2008-12-11 18:24

#23

It's Me D

I must be carefully stepping into the middle here I think but lagatta can you clarify this comment for me:

lagatta wrote:
I can't understand your support for the death penalty, which really seems counter to our principles as socialists.

(emphasis mine)

I don't doubt that it runs counter to the principles of most "progressives" (especially here in Canada) but how does it run counter to the principles of socialism specifically?

Thu, 2008-12-11 19:17

#24

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

lagatta wrote:
But the Cuban bureacracy is extending this right to self-defence to absurd lengths.

You have no right to lecture the Cubans on how much self-defence is acceptable to you.

The first duty of socialists is to defend the revolution against subversion and terrorism promoted by the imperialist forces that seek to destabilize Cuba and deliver it back in to the hands of capitalism. It's up to the Cubans themselves to decide the lengths to which they must go in their self-defence.

It may seem "absurd" to you but in fact the Cubans have shown [b]remarkable restraint[/b] in the face of very serious threats and provocations. Three executions in [b]eight years[/b] is a pretty damn good record compared with the rest of Latin America and the USA and Canada, where far more people than that are executed [b]every year[/b] by police tasers alone. It's even a damn good record compared with other revolutionary states.

As René Magritte would say, "This is not a tag line". Only he'd say it in French. You may find it rather annoying to have to discipline yourself to ignore parts of certain other people's posts - but not everyone's. Wouldn't it be better to abolish them?

Thu, 2008-12-11 19:57

#25

Michelle

Fidel wrote:

How can he ignore them? Cuba is the only country in the world with representation in American government.

I think you forgot about Israel. :D

Thu, 2008-12-11 19:58

#26

old_bolshie

Quote:
What you are reading now is an annoying and obtrusive tag line. Why not Email Michelle to demand that signature/tag lines be abolished forthwith? I'm sure she would appreciate your support for this initiative.

WTH are you talking about?

Thu, 2008-12-11 20:15

#27

It's Me D

Michelle I'm afraid Hoodeet scooped you by a few hours:

hoodeet wrote:
Hoodeet (JW)

Don't forget Israel.

PS: Spector your tag line is really getting noticed!

Thu, 2008-12-11 20:23

#28

Manitoba Girl

M. Spector wrote:

Three executions in [b]eight years[/b] is a pretty damn good record

It doesn't matter if it was only one death in 100 years; the Cuban state murders its own people. You should accept the fact, and quit making excuses for them just because they're communists.

Thu, 2008-12-11 20:28

#29

kropotkin1951

Manitoba Girl wrote:
M. Spector wrote:

Three executions in [b]eight years[/b] is a pretty damn good record

It doesn't matter if it was only one death in 100 years; the Cuban state murders its own people. You should accept the fact, and quit making excuses for them just because they're communists.

Do you also hold canada in low regard when it comes to its human rights record. Do you approve of a grandmother dying in jail because she was peacefully protesting. How about being murdered in an airport for not speaking english in an english only area.

Hopefully your self righteousness extends to your own back yard.

Thu, 2008-12-11 20:29

#30

lagatta

M Spector, I've attended countless demonstrations, fund-raisers and other events to defend Cuba against US (and other) imperialism and will continue to do so.

But it is bullshit that socialists elsewhere in the world can't have our say about human-rights violations in a country that has (to some extent at least) freed itself from capitalism. That is "campism". The original Maurice Spector would be outraged.

It is not a matter of "lecturing" anybody. Cripes, we've always spoken out against human-rights violations.

Thu, 2008-12-11 21:18

#31

Agent 204

Hoodeet wrote:

How can he ignore them? Cuba is the only country in the world with representation in American government.

Hoodeet (JW)

Don't forget Israel.

[/quote]

Different situation. In one case it's the government; in the other it's the opposition.

Thu, 2008-12-11 21:24

#32

Manitoba Girl

kropotkin1951 wrote:
Manitoba Girl wrote:
M. Spector wrote:

Three executions in [b]eight years[/b] is a pretty damn good record

It doesn't matter if it was only one death in 100 years; the Cuban state murders its own people. You should accept the fact, and quit making excuses for them just because they're communists.

Do you also hold canada in low regard when it comes to its human rights record. Do you approve of a grandmother dying in jail because she was peacefully protesting. How about being murdered in an airport for not speaking english in an english only area.

Hopefully your self righteousness extends to your own back yard.

It does, but this thread is about how pure and noble Cuba is when it comes to human rights. If you want to talk about Canadian human rights start another thread.

Thu, 2008-12-11 21:50

#33

It's Me D

Manitoba Girl wrote:
It does, but this thread is about how pure and noble Cuba is when it
comes to human rights. If you want to talk about Canadian human rights
start another thread.

Well, actually its a thread about an interview about how pure and noble Cuba is... My intent in the OP was not necessarily to endorse the position taken by PRAVDA in the linked interview but rather to stimulate some discussion on the subject (and to test out some of the features of the new babble I hadn't tried yet).

Thu, 2008-12-11 21:51

#34

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

lagatta wrote:
M Spector, I've attended countless demonstrations, fund-raisers and other events to defend Cuba against US (and other) imperialism and will continue to do so. But it is bullshit that socialists elsewhere in the world can't have our say about human-rights violations in a country that has (to some extent at least) freed itself from capitalism.

If you were serious about defending the Cuban revolution against imperialism you would not attempt to set arbitrary limits on its ability to defend itself against saboteurs and terrorists.

Cuba is an example to the world of human rights and concern for the well-being of its citizens. Read the title of this thread again; it's very true.

It's far too easy for the armchair left of north america, who have nothing to lose, to snipe at Cuba as if they were some kind of outlaw nation. All it does is give aid and comfort to those who want to misrepresent Cuba as a country that has no regard for human decency. That is a vile lie, that must be combatted at every turn.

The original Maurice Spector would be a fierce defender of Cuba, just as he was of the early Soviet Union.

Thu, 2008-12-11 22:15

#35

old_bolshie

I wonder how many people on this thread have actually been to Cuba, stayed with people in their homes 'Paladares', eaten the generally miserable excuse they have for food, travelled the empty roads and explored the countryside?

I have and from what I've seen life in the Socialist Republic of Cuba is hellish at best, people in the countryside especially live in abject poverty akin to the meanest holes in Honduras.

Ironically because the land hasn't been heavily industrialised my own hobby of birding is easy to do and the birds are plentiful-well some of them anyway.

I do have the distinct impression though that the average Cuban would rather eat a bird-any bird-than cater to the slavering tourist hordes from the Sault or well meaning but cack handed lefties from Canada.

For all the heartfelt expressions of solidarity one hears from impoverished Cubans I sense a hollowness in their assurances that they will never forget their Canadian friends when Uncle Sam turns his benevolent gaze their way.

After all these years Uncle Sam is still in their minds day and night and despite the fact that they can trade with anyone anywhere in the world the paradise as promised is as distant as ever.

Thu, 2008-12-11 22:27

#36

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Do you see, lagatta?

This is the kind of reactionary trash you end up allied with when you start dictating your absolute moral imperatives to the Cuban revolution.

"It is easy for the critical intellectual to be a 'friend of Cuba' in good times, at celebrations and invited conferences, in times of lesser threats. It is much harder to be a 'friend of Cuba' when a totalitarian empire threatens the heroic island and puts heavy hands on its defenders." - James Petras

Thu, 2008-12-11 22:51

#37

lagatta

I have nothing to do with the "armchair left".

I am no ally of imperialism.

Nor of Stalinists like James Petras.

Thu, 2008-12-11 23:05

#38

Doug

It's entirely possible for both Cuba AND the US to be less than ideal, you know.

Thu, 2008-12-11 23:35

#39

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

lagatta wrote:
Nor of Stalinists like James Petras.

Petras is no Stalinist. And if he were, he wouldn't be a defender of the Cuban revolution, whose leaders purged the Stalinists a long time ago.

Thu, 2008-12-11 23:50

#40

lagatta

Well, we disagree on Petras. I've read enough of his campist crap. It isn't remotely Marxist. And his almost anti-Semitic take on support for the Palestinians (I have been involved in Palestine support for decades, and a lot of wrangling with babble Zionists)...

The French Wikipedia article on him summarises why many, many radical leftists I know from different continents can't stand the guy:

Plusieurs de ses thèses sont assez controversées au sein de la gauche altermondialiste. Petras considère que les attentats du 11 septembre ne sont pas dus à un groupe islamiste radical et que l'attribution de ces attentats à Al Qaida est injustifiée (voir James Petras, Washington's Conspiracy Theory Rejected, September 24, 2001). Il revendique la défense du patriotisme des Etats-Unis dont la souveraineté serait mise en péril par l'alliance entre le complexe militaro-industriel, l'AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) et le JINSA (Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs), deux organismes qu'il présente comme formant un "lobby sioniste". D'après lui, la politique des Etats-Unis au Moyen-Orient ne correspond pas aux intérêts de ce pays, mais exclusivement à ceux de ces intérêts privés et de l'État d'Israël. Il prône la constitution d'une alliance contre ce "lobby" qui dépasserait les clivages traditionnels entre la gauche et la droite. Plusieurs courants de gauche ont critiqué ces positions qu'ils qualifient d'antisémites. (Voir: Sam Manuel, More middle class radicals promote Jew-hatred, The Militant, May 15, 2006).

(This quotes "the Militant", but none of the people I know have any link with that journal or current). I prefer quoting the French wiki site as it is les liable to have been freeped by Zionists than the English ones. But many anti-Zionists I know consider Petras an anti-Semite.

Poor Maurice Spector...

I'm amused about the "North Americans"... so Mexicans have no right to criticise Cuba, but Salvadoreans do?

Thu, 2008-12-11 23:53

#41

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you have nothing left but ad hominem remarks.

How else is one to defend the indefensible?

Fri, 2008-12-12 00:06

#42

old_bolshie

Very little French spoken in Cuba.

Fri, 2008-12-12 00:31

#43

Fidel

Michelle wrote:
Fidel wrote:

How can he ignore them? Cuba is the only country in the world with representation in American government.

I think you forgot about Israel. :D

Yes, Israel was a premier frontline state during the cold war, and now the continuing global war on democracy.

According to wiki, there are four Cuban American members of the United States House of Representatives and two Senators. Cuban Americans are generally supportive of right-wing agendas. A number of Cuban-American terrorist groups operate out of Miami and receive funding and training from the CIA. The CIA has coveted Cuba for decades and would like very much to use Cuba as a conduit for running illicit drugs to the U.S. mainland from its corrupt narco client states Colombia, El Salvador etc Haiti is another traditional waypoint for importing drugs to the U.S. by the CIA and connected friends in organized crime.

Fri, 2008-12-12 08:44

#44

Caissa

There is no justification for Cuba retaining the death penalty just like there is no justification for the US retaining the death penalty.

Fri, 2008-12-12 08:46

#45

It's Me D

lagatta wrote:
Nor of Stalinists like James Petras.

I lolled.

lagatta wrote:
many, many
radical leftists I know from different continents can't stand the guy

Funny, many many radical lefists I know love him.

lagatta wrote:
Poor Maurice Spector...

Um, according to Wiki (since it seems popular in here) Maurice Spector was a zionist... I'm getting really confused about what M Spector supposedly should or shouldn't do to live up to his apparent namesake. Thanks for clueing me in to the guy though, I'd never made the connection before somehow! If you don't mind saying so Spector why'd you chose the name?

old_bolshie wrote:
Very little French spoken in Cuba.

And very few Cubans are posting in this thread; coincidence?

Fri, 2008-12-12 08:48

#46

It's Me D

Caissa wrote:
There is no justification for Cuba retaining the death penalty just like there is no justification for the US retaining the death penalty.

There is no justification for the US period.

Fri, 2008-12-12 08:59

#47

Unionist

Doug wrote:
It's entirely possible for both Cuba AND the US to be less than ideal, you know.

Indeed, but it is also questionable when one holds aggressive superpowers and their victims to the same standards.

It reminds me of Anatole France's dictum:

Quote:
[i]"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."[/i]

Fri, 2008-12-12 09:24

#48

KenS

Nobody has the right- and least of all the US- to be teaching the Cubans about human rights.

But the Communist Party uses this as a cover for acting as if it also means they have nothing to learn about human rights.

Party leaders and member will talk endlessly about progress they need to make on human rights.... but only ones they acknowledge as being important or 'relevant to Cuba'.

Fri, 2008-12-12 10:01

#49

It's Me D

Unionist: Great post

Ken: Were you refering to the interview in the OP or do you have any other source for your latest comment? I'm not sure exactly what you mean...

Fri, 2008-12-12 10:31

#50

Ghislaine

This thread is hilarious. Cuba would be even poorer if Canadians and Europeans had the same lack of rights as Cubans, ie not allowed to travel for pleasure. It is pure hypocrisy to stay in a four-star hotel and be waited on by Cubans who will never and are not allowed to stay in these same hotels. Some socialism! It is dependent on capitalist tourism for survival. And even at that, the standard of living is very poor. Travellers vacationing to Cuba often bring soap, tampons, toothbrushes etc. as tips for hotel staff, which are much appreciated. It is sad that there can be no honest discussion of this country on this board.

Fri, 2008-12-12 11:27

#51

KenS

I wasn't specifically referring to the text of the opening post. If anything I was referring to the title.

Since that interview is conducted by people who themselves have a limited and self serving idea of human rights, its no surprise they ask questions in the most favourable possible manner.

My comment stands as is: a general point about what you hear when the leaders of Cuba respond to tougher questions from progressives who distance themselves from the self serving way the human rights hammer is used on Cuba, and who acknowledge what Cuba has achieved.

Hence my saying that the Communist Party uses the transparently political nature of most attacks on their human rights record as a cover for acting as if it NO ONE- Cuban as well as foreign- has anything to say about human rights that they should listen to.

Party leaders and member will talk endlessly about progress they need to make on human rights.... but only ones they acknowledge as being important or 'relevant to Cuba'.

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