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Are environmentalists rejoicing over the economic meltdown?

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Sat, 2008-12-13 13:18

#1

Stockholm

Are environmentalists rejoicing over the economic meltdown?

I'm just curious about how the environmental community feels about the world economic crisis. On the surface of it, they should be rejoicing. I mean what better way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions than by shrinking economic activity and by having so much unemployment that people can't buyt anything and there is less consumerism and less production and less emissions! And, to make things even better, the hated car companies are all on the verge of going bankrupt...and the more the economy shrinks the fewer people can afford to drive and so we have less pollution

What's not to like? I mean so what if millions of people go bankrupt and lose their homes and livelihood - look at the bright side at least we can slow down global warming.

Sat, 2008-12-13 14:41

#2

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Frustrated Mess's picture

Good point. Do anti-environmentalists rejoice at news of the harm done to the planet? When some scientist says we now face a minimum increase of 4 degrees while CO2 emissions continue to rise, do anti-environmentalists take the F-150s out for a joy ride? Do they empty blue boxes into trash cans? Do they rejoice at Darfurians starving in the desert or Congolese raped and murdered for coltane and what remains of the forests? After all, if the economy is all that matters, then certainly sacrificing the planet and all that lives on her must be fucking orgasmic.

Sat, 2008-12-13 14:57

#3

Agent 204

Agent 204's picture

Depends who you ask. George Monbiot thinks it might be the only way to slow the destructive effects of our current economic model. On the other hand, others fear that the tightening up of credit might slow down the development of clean energy.

The thing is, the recession could provide an opportunity for increased public sector investment in clean energy, carbon sequestration, and public transportation, and these would also serve as make-work projects. On the other hand, it's far from clear that this will happen.

Sat, 2008-12-13 15:09

#4

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Frustrated Mess's picture

In fact it probably won't. The huge sums already committed for the bailouts of fraudulent banksters will make any additional dollars hard to come by and, keep in mind, infrastructure dollars for critical repairs were hard to come by even in good times.

Sat, 2008-12-13 17:03

#5

George Victor

Right on, FM. The "environmentalist" is not celebrating, of course.

And while the question had to be responded to, it is obviously just the product of animus brought on by intellectual constipation - the frustration we all feel while looking for answers. My active search goes back 38 years - and the would-be New Democrat/environmentalist really got put upon by the autoworker community in those early days. The internecine stuff is always too bad, of course. "The enemy" is still really "out there" in capital land.

Sat, 2008-12-13 19:00

#6

al-Qa'bong

I'm confused. Is it a "meltdown" or a "downward spiral"?

Sat, 2008-12-13 19:19

#7

George Victor

I'm confused. Is it a "meltdown" or a "downward spiral"?

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I'm concerned. Will a query here lead to an exercise in Zen buddhism?

(Although a quick peek at the aphorisms available shows some promise:

"The greatest action is not conforming with the world's ways."

Although that could be a cold and hungry pursuit where begging bowls get spit in.

Sat, 2008-12-13 21:00

#8

Bubbles

Anyone with a sense of balance and open eyes could see this coming. It took a bit longer then I had estimated. In away it is a time of change, and as such it offers hope for those that were unhappy with the direction we as a society were going.

Mind you, when one sees the extremes people will go to to avoid change then a certain amount of aprehention tends to set in.

Overall I see it as a positive developement towards a desperately needed change. It will need cooperation to solve this problem. Just what we need to tackle the upcoming environmental collapse.

Sat, 2008-12-13 21:16

#9

Agent 204

Agent 204's picture

Bubbles wrote:
Overall I see it as a positive developement towards a desperately needed change. It will need cooperation to solve this problem. Just what we need to tackle the upcoming environmental collapse.

Well, it could be a positive development. It depends how adept activists and organizers are at taking advantage of a crisis. The right have been masters of this for quite some time (see The Shock Doctrine); maybe we should learn something from that and try to get some genuinely progressive change. Unfortunately, they have a lot of practise; on the other hand, they've done a lot to discredit themselves, so maybe we can apply the techniques we learn from them towards different goals.

Sat, 2008-12-13 21:27

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

M. Spector's picture

Stockholm wrote:

I'm just curious about how the environmental community feels about the world economic crisis. On the surface of it, they should be rejoicing. I mean what better way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions than by shrinking economic activity and by having so much unemployment that people can't buyt anything and there is less consumerism and less production and less emissions! And, to make things even better, the hated car companies are all on the verge of going bankrupt...and the more the economy shrinks the fewer people can afford to drive and so we have less pollution

What's not to like? I mean so what if millions of people go bankrupt and lose their homes and livelihood - look at the bright side at least we can slow down global warming.

This smirking, sarcastic opening post is clearly an attack on the environmental movement and can only be considered trolling. It would be more appropriate in a right-wing forum where members could get their jollies by talking about how destructive and economically irresponsible climate change activists are.

I will not be posting again in this thread.

Sat, 2008-12-13 23:26

Bubbles

Agent 204 wrote:

Well, it could be a positive development. It depends how adept activists and organizers are at taking advantage of a crisis. The right have been masters of this for quite some time (see The Shock Doctrine); maybe we should learn something from that and try to get some genuinely progressive change. Unfortunately, they have a lot of practise; on the other hand, they've done a lot to discredit themselves, so maybe we can apply the techniques we learn from them towards different goals.

Yes I read the Shock Doctrine, but I doubt if that kind of aproach leads to sustainable solutions. Torture, disapearing people, destroying communities, privatizing our environment is a dead end aproach. As the 'wrong' side has time again tried and failed at in my opinion. They do not get the obvious, that people need community and will keep building them faster then the 'wrong' side can destroy them.

Sun, 2008-12-14 00:06

Fidel

I think economic shock therapists have placed their crash cart paddles on their own crumbling ideology, and with voltage turned up to the highest setting, pulled the trigger. It's a shocking experience.

Sun, 2008-12-14 11:26

Agent 204

Agent 204's picture

Bubbles wrote:
Yes I read the Shock Doctrine, but I doubt if that kind of aproach leads to sustainable solutions. Torture, disapearing people, destroying communities, privatizing our environment is a dead end aproach. As the 'wrong' side has time again tried and failed at in my opinion. They do not get the obvious, that people need community and will keep building them faster then the 'wrong' side can destroy them.

My point was not that we should be using their methods (I'd have hoped that would be obvious) but simply the general idea of using a crisis to one's advantage. They exploited crisis to get support for neoconservative policies; we should exploit crisis to undermine support for said policies.

Tue, 2009-01-06 18:31

Agent 204

Agent 204's picture

On a related note, bicycles ("pushbikes", in the local lingo) are now outselling cars in Australia:

Quote:
Australian businesses and consumers, braced for bad times, are continuing to buy more pushbikes than cars in a sign of things to come.
Data released yesterday revealed that - for the ninth consecutive year - consumers bought more bicycles than cars.

Bike sales last calendar year reached 1.4 million, just 2 per cent down on the record 1.42 million sold in 2007.

That far outstripped the 1 million auto sales over the same period.

Tue, 2009-01-06 19:53

KeyStone

Well, if the environmentalists are celebrating, it's pretty short-sighted.
The world had finally reached a consensus in regards to the environment, and world governments were prepared some big money to make a change. Now though, that's all forgotten and all opponents of the environment have to do, is suggest that jobs will be lost and that's the end of it.

What really needs to change is the model that we have to constantly grow the economy. We have to increase GDP constantly. If we are going to have a sustainable planet, shouldn't we merely be looking to maintain.

Do we really need to have more people, produce more and ultimately create more damage to our planet?