Viva la revolucion! Cuba's 50th anniversary.

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Thu, 2008-12-25 23:20

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Viva la revolucion! Cuba's 50th anniversary.

January 1, 2009 will mark the 50th anniversary of the accession to power of the Cuban revolutionaries led by Fidel Castro.

Here is the first of many articles that will be written in solidarity with the Cuban revolution over the next few months.

[url=http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/half-century-of-cuba%e2%80%99s-rev... of Cuba’s Revolution: Solidarity, 1[/u][/url] by Ron Ridenour

December 24th, 2008

[excerpt]

Quote:
The revolution’s solidarity ethic started at home. From the first, racism was officially abolished everywhere. Small farmers and would-be farmers were given up to 5 caballerias (13.42 hectares per caballeria) of land to till as promised during the armed struggle against US-backed dictator Batista. The new president, Raul Castro, has just extended this by one or two caballerias for the most productive. The rest of the land, bought from private owners (national and international), was turned into large state collectives and smaller cooperatives. In recent years, almost all the collectives have been converted into more productive cooperatives, both private and state run.

Illiteracy was soon eliminated by 100,000 educated youths teaching 23% of the nation’s illiterates. Promptly, all children were attending school free of charge whereas before 44% of primary school-aged children did not attend school and only 17% of secondary school-aged children did. In these 50 years, nearly one million students have graduated from universities. Today, there are nearly 100,000 students studying full time in 65 universities, plus some 400,000 studying at university level in 3,150 localities in all 169 municipalities. Under Batista there were 20,000 students attending the three state, and one private, universities.

A nation-wide health care system was immediately underway, free of charge. Statistical results show its significance for each and every Cuban. In 1959, infant mortality was at 78.8 per 1000 births; in 2007, it was down to 5.5. Life expectancy was 62 years. Today it stands at 77. There was only one doctor for every 1,800 inhabitants in 1959, after half the six thousand doctors had fled upon the revolutionary victory and following the elimination of private practice. But only a few of the population of 5.5 million was being served. Today, with 75,000 graduated doctors since the revolution and with 11.5 million people, the rate is one to 150. However, nearly half of those doctors are on foreign missions in 68 countries, and several hundreds have fled to other countries seeking greater economic opportunities. This places a greater burden on some 30,000 doctors within the country who must care for greater numbers of patients.

Cuba produces 12 of the 13 vaccines it inoculates each child with. The nation has an exceptional and modern biotechnology industry and has developed unique medicines and vaccines, including the world’s only meningitis B vaccine.

The revolution is also renowned for its excellent sports and culture programs, for its superb athletes, musicians, film makers, detective novel authors, ballet and other dancers.

The nation’s workers and farmers were also set on a solidarity course to serve and produce not just for their benefits but for the entire nation. In the early 1960s, two forms of economic systems were experimented with. One was led by the revolutionary idealist Che Guevara, the other by Carlos Rodriguez, a leader of the Communist Party, which had not joined the armed struggle. In the efforts to create the "new man" in economic production and in the political decision-making process, there were some advances but many retardations, about which I will address in a second story.

Fri, 2008-12-26 00:23

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.walterlippmann.com/docs2126.html][u]CUBA: Relic from the Cold War or Herald of the Third Millennium?[/u][/url]
by Julio García Luis

This an excerpt from the Preface to the book [url=http://www.amazon.com/Cuban-Revolution-Reader-Documentary-History/dp/192... Revolution Reader: A Documentary History of Fidel Castro's Revolution[/i][/url] (new edition, 2008, published by Ocean Press)

Quote:
The Cuban revolution, one of the events that defined the shape of the 20th century, has now reached its 50th anniversary. Throughout those years, it has been depicted by its enemies first as a satellite, a tool of Soviet policy in Latin America and Africa, and then, after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the community of nations created when Central and Eastern Europe were liberated from Nazism, as a kind of tenacious relic left over from the Cold War. But the very fact of Cuba's survival against all expectations defies these simplifications.

The continued existence of revolutionary Cuba must be seen as a consequence of something much more profound than any individual's whim or the Numantian stubbornness that was referred to years ago as a synonym of hopeless, suicidal determination. Nor is its survival explained by the understandable reaction to the stupidity of US policy toward Cuba, expressed in the more recent phase of the Torricelli and Helms-Burton laws.

Nearly 50 years ago, Che Guevara argued that Cuba was a historical exception. His reasoning is still valid.

Thus, on reaching this anniversary, in a new century and a new millennium, it could be said that the greatest moments of the Cuban revolution may not be the 45 key historical moments that we have selected for this book. Perhaps the greatest moments still lie in the future, in the difficult new era of the coming decades.

Some commentaries written outside Cuba and even certain reflections from inside Cuba contain hints of something akin to belated remorse over the fact that the Cuban revolution entered into the Soviet sphere of influence and became somewhat dependent on the Soviet Union.

According to this thesis, it would have been better for Cuba if those links had not existed. Those who argue this say that we would not have been encumbered with the dangerous burden of dogmatized Marxism; the experience of highly centralized and bureaucratic economic management; backward technology; tendencies toward gigantism, excessive consumption of electricity and indifference to the environmental effects of investment projects; a formalistic concept of democracy; and a cultural policy based on pedantic models.

Naturally, it is easy to speculate with hindsight about what the course of history might have been, but the unavoidable conclusions that the country should draw from nearly five decades are one thing, and the desire to replace history with abstractions is something very different.

Cuba did not choose–nor could it choose–the world in which the revolution took place. Naturally, it would have been much better if the Soviet Union, which was to become Cuba's main economic, political and military partner, had not so early lost Lenin, the true leader of its socialist revolution; if it had not experienced the mistakes and crimes of Stalinism; if it had not had to pay the terrible price of the war. Later, with a political bureaucracy that was more interested in looking after its own interests than in achieving socialist ideals, the Soviet Union was unable to rectify those deformations completely. It would have been much better if the enemy's blockade had not forced the Soviet Union to compete in an arms race that drained its resources.

But, accepting reality as it was, the Cuban people had the unexpected good fortune of achieving victory when the balance of power in the world offered the revolution at least minimal conditions for survival.

The existence of the Soviet Union–whatever its historical tragedies and mistakes–constituted a decisive advantage in the consolidation of the Cuban people's militant self-determination and their right to defend their independence and revolution at whatever cost. Moreover, the Soviet government of that period, headed by Nikita S. Khrushchev, still had some Bolshevik daring, an ethic of solidarity and the political will to take the risks that the defense of Cuba required. These constituted important factors in those circumstances that determined whether or not the Cuban people could be crushed.

To think that Cuba had options, that it could choose between one thing and another, simply ridiculous. The country lacked the necessary critical mass, economic clout and military strength to break away from the forces of the bipolar world.

The real alternative faced by Cuba was between sovereignty and the ruthless reestablishment of US rule, between the revolution and the counterrevolution, between the advancement and deepening of the process toward socialism and an unimaginable regression in history. Che summed it up concisely: "Socialist revolution or caricature of revolution." And, when considered realistically, this challenge placed Cuba in the camp of the only allies it could count on. Soviet solidarity was a privilege, and we Cubans, who should not be ungrateful, should always recognize this, even if now we do so only in our hearts.

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Fri, 2008-12-26 00:40

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://circlesonline.blogspot.com/2008/12/cuba-makes-overture-to-obama.h... Circles Robinson's blog:[/u][/url]

Quote:
Cuban President Raul Castro isn't waiting for Barack Obama to take office on January 20th to make the first overture that could lead to defrosting US-Cuba relations.

During his first trip abroad since taking office in February, Castro told the press in Brazil that he was willing to free dozens of prisoners that Washington calls "dissidents" in return for the release of the Cuban Five, who have spent more than 10 years in US prisons.

In saying "Let's do gesture for gesture," the Cuban leader makes an attractive offer that would please his compatriots on both sides of the Florida Straights, reported the BBC.

"We'll send them with their families and everything. Give us back our five heroes. That is a gesture on both parts," said Mr. Castro.

[b]Who Are the Prisoners?[/b]

Washington's "dissidents" have been the cornerstone of the Bush administration policy to try and build an internal opposition to the governments of Fidel Castro and now his brother Raul. They routinely received funds from Miami based groups and the US Interests Section in Havana and many were arrested during a crackdown on March 18, 2003.

Working for the enemy is not taken lightly in Cuba. The following month they were tried and received stiff sentences of up to 27 years in prison. Some received early release for health reasons.

A dozen or so wives of the prisoners dress in white and parade down Fifth Avenue in Havana's Miramar district on most Sundays demanding their husband's release.

Meanwhile, in the US, five Cubans continue in prison after more than 10 years for the "crime" of uncovering terrorist plots against the island being planned in Miami under the complacent eye of US authorities.

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Fri, 2008-12-26 00:50

Fidel

[img]http://www.print.duncans.tv/images/che-guevara-red.jpg[/img]

Viva La Revolución

Fri, 2008-12-26 07:53

wabisha

Long live the Cuban legal system and its use of the death penalty! Yay!

Fri, 2008-12-26 08:05

Le T

"Long live the Cuban legal system and its use of the death penalty! Yay!"

Are you a sock puppet?

Fri, 2008-12-26 08:24

Fidel

God bless Cuba and Fidel and Raul for refusing to send military people to learn the black art of torture and terror and murder at the U.S. Army Skool of the Americas aka "WHINSEC", like so many U.S. client states in "the backyard" have done over the years and repressing their desperately poor peasant populations living in fear still.

Fri, 2008-12-26 08:27

Le T

Fidel, don't change the subject. DEATH PENALTY say it with me DEATH PENALTY. No don't look over there! DEATH PENALTY, that's right, one more time: DEATH PENALTY.

Fri, 2008-12-26 11:06

Hoodeet

Ah, the death penalty. The same abomination that Obama supports.

He
had the unmitigated gall to express his disagreement with the Supreme
Court majority decision striking down the death penalty in the
case of one southern state (sorry, can't remember which) for rape of a
minor.

And the Herpetics are probably building up to
some stealthy move to reintroduce it in Canada. (BTW Do we know
where crown prince Iggy stands on it, really?)

So why
don't we keep a really close watch closer to home too while spinning
our wheels on foreign countries that won't pay attention anyway?

Fri, 2008-12-26 11:25

#10

Two threads on Cuba & the death penalty already exist, why bog down this one with the same topic?

I was in Timor-Leste last year. The admiration with which everyone spoke of the Cuban doctors there was remarkable. Spanish has become the fifth language (after Tetum, Portuguese, Indonesian and English) because so many locals went to free medical school in Cuba. There is a real affection for Cuba, on literally the opposite side of the world.

One of a million such stories. Cuba's revolution is worth celebration, even if Cuba like all countries has a few flaws. I'd call it one of the crucial events of the 20th century, which changed not only Cuba but the world for the better.

Fri, 2008-12-26 11:28

#11

wabisha

Ze wrote:

Cuba's revolution is worth celebration, even if Cuba like all countries has a few flaws.

FLAWS!!! You are an enemy of the revolution! Cuba has no flaws. Viva the revolution!!! More death penalty for all of Cuba.

Fri, 2008-12-26 11:29

#12

wabisha

Yawn. this is getting boring. i'm going to go troll bread and roses now. Ta.

Fri, 2008-12-26 13:30

#13

Maysie

wabisha is gone. Please continue the regularly scheduled Cuba thread.

Fri, 2008-12-26 14:40

#14

old_bolshie

So what does a real revolutionary need this holiday season?

http://mallhabana.com/welcome.do

Maybe we should organise a group buy?

Note they gaurantee delivery by Dec 31!

Fri, 2008-12-26 14:42

#15

Unionist

Will they deliver you somewhere? do they take Mastercard?

Fri, 2008-12-26 16:45

#16

old_bolshie

Unionist wrote:
Will they deliver you somewhere? do they take Mastercard?

LOL!!!

Closest thing I've seen to a real joke on this site ever-what's the punch line?

Seriously tales of shortages continue to filter back from Cuba to Canada-I know when I was birding in Cuba and cycling around the countryside the poverty was heart breaking-rural poverty is always awful.

Maybe they had medical care of a sort but little food worth the eating anywhere, powdered milk is an unheard of luxury.

The site as linked could really make a difference to some people, surely there must be some humanitarians here who would use it.

Note-they only take non-USA credit cards which is sure to appeal to the non-conformist types here.

Fri, 2008-12-26 17:49

#17

Fidel

Unionist wrote:
Will they deliver you somewhere? do they take Mastercard?

:laff-aloud!: And air miles, too?

Fri, 2008-12-26 20:12

#18

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Unionist wrote:
do they take Mastercard?

[url=http://www.canadiannetworkoncuba.ca/MasterCard/][u]Probably not.[/u][/url]

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Fri, 2008-12-26 23:34

#19

old_bolshie

M. Spector wrote:

Unionist wrote:
do they take Mastercard?

[url=http://www.canadiannetworkoncuba.ca/MasterCard/][u]Probably not.[/u][/url]

Yes they do-clicking on the link as given supplies one with all the info needed.

Since it's a Spanish company operating the site that's where'll you'll be billed from, presumably in $US not Euros-you can see there is no need for anyone to fear the omnipotence of the US gubmint..

Not my favourite people the Spanish but they are good at this sort of slipperiness.

I urge you all to contact your Cuban brethern and update them as to when the Revolutionary Celebration Baskets o' Goodies are expected.

Sat, 2008-12-27 00:24

#20

Fidel

Mastercard charges ridiculously high interest rates. I try not to give my business to Americano creditors if I can help it.

Hey Bolshie, how does it work with sending food staples and bare essentials to that U.S. client state of Colombia?

Sat, 2008-12-27 01:44

#21

old_bolshie

Fidel wrote:
Mastercard charges ridiculously high interest rates. I try not to give my business to Americano creditors if I can help it.

Do what I do-pay bills on time every month and never pay any interest, the only time I've ever paid interest was when I forgot to pay a bill found it later with cash tucked inside under a pile of envelopes-no worry the interest was less than 2 dollars.

Fidel wrote:
Hey Bolshie, how does it work with sending food staples and bare essentials to that U.S. client state of Colombia

That's right-I forgot you've never actually been to Latina America have you?

The name you use is an affectation and nothing more.

In any case Colombia groans with foodstuffs of all varieities, grains/meats/fruit/seafood/vegetables/condiments it's all on offer I've even seen President's Choice product on sale!

When in Medellin the newish French hypermarket Carrefour would be a good place for a newbie like you to start.

Sat, 2008-12-27 07:02

#22

Fidel

old_bolshie wrote:

Fidel wrote:
Mastercard charges ridiculously high interest rates. I try not to give my business to Americano creditors if I can help it.

Do what I do-pay bills on time every month and never pay any interest, the only time I've ever paid interest was when I forgot to pay a bill found it later with cash tucked inside under a pile of envelopes-no worry the interest was less than 2 dollars.

Which card do you use? Some cc companies use a 30 day month and others 20.

Fidel wrote:
Hey Bolshie, how does it work with sending food staples and bare essentials to that U.S. client state of Colombia

old Bullshie wrote:
That's right-I forgot you've never actually been to Latina America have you?

The name you use is an affectation and nothing more.

In any case Colombia groans with foodstuffs of all varieities, grains/meats/fruit/seafood/vegetables/condiments it's all on offer I've even seen President's Choice product on sale!

When in Medellin the newish French hypermarket Carrefour would be a good place for a newbie like you to start.

I've been to Cuba and Dominican Republic, and one of the ABC's and Margarita Isl. north of Venezuela partying and scuba diving.

And years before some friends and I drove an old Ford truck down to Texaw, thru maico and took the Pan-Am "highway" through a few of those shitholes in Central America. It was a real eye opener for us because we were young and had no idea what Central America is about and so geographically close to and influenced politically by the USA.

But I have no interest in going to Colombia while it is a frontline state in the war on democracy in South America.

Viva La Revolucion!

Sat, 2008-12-27 07:20

#23

Stargazer

Do not engage the troll. It is not an amusing troll, nor a particularily bright troll. Can we not just leave the troll alone under it's bridge (in it's mommy's basement) picking away at itself?

Jaysus, if you're going to be a troll, at least be somewhat amusing.

Sat, 2008-12-27 11:24

#24

Hoodeet

Tell that to the 2 million internally displace persons, most of them
unemployed and traumatized by the loss of their land and homes and by
the economic nightmare of raising children in refugee centres or on the
street. Or to the milions of others trapped in a privatized health care
system or simply uninsured if they're not working and can't afford
monthly premiums.

They can't afford supermarket prices.

Yes,
produce is available in the cheaper public markets, but it's
mainly subsistence eating for the milions of poor and impoverished
Colombians.

And there is no basic food basket in Colombia as
there is in Cuba; even acknowledging that state-subsidized cheap
staples are insufficient and most Cubans do not have the hard currency
to shop for imported products, at least a family is assured cheap
basics that usually last about 3 weeks a month.

Colombia
has a high concentration of wealth in a small group. Import
substitution, which supported local and national manufacturing and
farming, is virtually dead, thanks mainly to free trade.

Sat, 2008-12-27 20:08

#25

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/half-century-of-cuban-revolution-c... of Cuban Revolution: Challenges, 2[/u][/url]
by Ron Ridenour, December 26th, 2008
The second half of the article in the opening post, above (excerpts)

Quote:
Seventy days after the Cuban revolutionary victory, the National Security Council under the Eisenhower-Nixon regime issued a directive, March 10, 1959, to bring "another government to power in Cuba". This decision was made precisely because Cuba's young leadership initiated politics of solidarity among human beings. A week later, President Eisenhower ordered the CIA to train Cuban exiles for an invasion of their country, according to Eisenhower's [i]The White House Years: Waging Peace [sic] 1956-1961[/i].

The Cuban revolution was declared to be socialist by Fidel Castro speaking before an approving crowd as US planes flew over Havana dropping bombs. The April 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion had begun. Following its rapid failure, President JF Kennedy instituted a blockade of Cuba, which remains today.

In 1967, President LB Johnson, then bogged down in war against the Indo-Chinese peoples, expressed to a reporter: "We were running a goddamn Murder Incorporated in the Caribbean". He said so after learning the CIA had used the Mafia to try to assassinate Fidel Castro. The CIA was also infecting humans, animals and crops with poisons, terrorizing its people from the air and on the ground. (See my book, [i]Backfire: The CIA's Biggest Burn[/i], Editorial Jose Marti, Havana, 1991.)

Readers here are familiar enough with the history of US subversion against the Cuban revolution that I merely touch on it, in order to set the background for why the original Marxist ideas of political democracy and workers control, of equality in economy without privileges to any sector or leaders were not thoroughly forthcoming, especially after the fall of the Soviet Union and Cuba's other trading partners in Comecon. In addition to external attacks, which have twisted development, are adverse decisions taken by the national government as well as realities of underdevelopment.

Now, however, nearly two decades after the fall of Comecon and as Cuba begins to celebrate its 50th anniversary, it is the only remaining socialist country, at least in the western hemisphere (perhaps in the entire world given that China and the Indo-Chinese countries have converted nearly totally into capitalist economies). Cuba maintains its socialist roots and Marxist socialist ideology although the "Special Period" concessions to capitalist measures installed for shear survival have created inequality: a growing gap between a new poor and a new rich.

"This country can self-destruct; this Revolution can destroy itself, but they [the US] can never destroy us; we can destroy ourselves, and it would be our fault," so spoke Fidel Castro, November 17, 2005, about the consequences of a double economy and decay in morality and consciousness.

Four areas of greatest popular discontent are: a) the double economy, two currencies; b) too much reliance on imports and not enough national production; c) perpetual lack of sufficient housing made worse by this year's hurricane destructions; d) insignificant improvement in worker empowerment, with few exceptions.

Gee, the death penalty didn't make the list. Go figure!

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Sat, 2008-12-27 21:07

#26

CMOT Dibbler

it is the only remaining socialist country...

What about Chavez and his Bolivarian republic?

-------------------------

Takes more than combat gear to make a man Takes more than license for a gun Confront your enemies, avoid them when you can A gentleman will walk but never run -Sting, an englishman in new york

Sat, 2008-12-27 21:23

#27

CMOT Dibbler

I will celebrate certain aspects of the Cuban revolution,(I loves me some education and health care) but not the whole thing. Fidel is still a dictator, The Cuban state is still authoritarian, and it is by no means a bastion of socialism. I think Hugo and Evo are far more revolutionary(and far more democratic) then Fidel.

-------------------------

Takes more than combat gear to make a man Takes more than license for a gun Confront your enemies, avoid them when you can A gentleman will walk but never run -Sting, an englishman in new york

Sat, 2008-12-27 21:46

#28

Fidel

CMOT Dibbler wrote:

Fidel is still a dictator,

I was thinking the same thing about Steve in Ottawa and Pinocchio in Troronto. Both of them are enjoying 22 percent of eligible voter support and pretty much calling all the shots right now.

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Sat, 2008-12-27 23:02

#29

CMOT Dibbler

I was thinking the same thing about Steve in Ottawa and Pinocchio in Troronto. Both of them are enjoying 22 percent of eligible voter support and pretty much calling all the shots right now.

Our political culture is stagnant, and yes, it needs a Keir Hardie Colonic, but I still don't think that Cuba is a stupendous bastion of leftist thought. Venezuala and bolivia are much more socalistic.

-------------------------

Takes more than combat gear to make a man Takes more than license for a gun Confront your enemies, avoid them when you can A gentleman will walk but never run -Sting, an englishman in new york

Sat, 2008-12-27 23:51

#30

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

CMOT Dibbler wrote:

Venezuala and bolivia are much more socalistic.

Earth to CMOT!

Venezuela and Bolivia are capitalist countries! Cuba is not.

Just because you prefer capitalism it doesn't mean you get to call it socialism.

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Sun, 2008-12-28 10:59

#31

Venezuela and Bolivia (and Brazil and so on) do seem to be coming up with more innovative thinking, though. Just an impression.

Sun, 2008-12-28 11:23

#32

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

That's my impression as well.

And I am hoping that Chavez and Morales will eventually be able to overcome the power of their entrenched capitalist oligarchies and the might and influence of the US imperialists sufficiently to establish a socialist revolution in their countries.

It will require the full participation of the masses of the lower classes as well as vision and determination on the part of their leaders. And hopefully there will be a minimum of bloodshed involved, but I think that's really up to the oligarchy.

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Sun, 2008-12-28 17:10

#33

Kindrid

[img]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/castro/peopleevents/images/e_moderates_03.j...

An example of a true revolutionary

Sun, 2008-12-28 17:14

#34

Kindrid

Shouldn't Costa Rica be the Latin
American nation everyone be celebrating? Costa Rica has real
universal health care. Costa Rica has free education. Costa Rica has
freedom of the press. Costa Rica has a decent human rights record.

Cuba has a Potemkin health care system.
The elite and foreign tourist have access to decent health care. But,
the common Cuban faces hospitals without basic medicine and
unsanitary conditions. Ask yourself, if Cuba has such a decent health
care system why do leftists church groups and sympathetic tourists
need to bring in the most basic medical supplies? Don't give me the
embargo excuse. It would be stupid to actually buy the supplies in
the US. The supplies can be bought cheaper in places like Mexico that
has no embargo with Cuba. Cuba lies about its health statistics.
Fetuses that face potential problems are aborted. Infants that die on
their first day of life are chalked as an abortion. Cuban doctors
that fled the island confirm the government fudges the stats.

Don't give me the bogus argument that
at least Cuba is better than Haiti. Pre-Castro Cuba was ranked near
the top of Latin American nations in economic development. Cuba
before the Revolution was akin to Argentina, Chile or Uruguay not
Guatemala, Mexico, or Haiti. Before the Revolution Cuba was seen as a
land of opportunity and received more immigrants as a percentage off
population than the United States.

Don't give me praises about the
achievements of the Revolution. Considering the fact that small
nation with a small population received billions a year in Soviet aid
year after year the question to ask is not if Cuba is better than
El Salvador, but rather why is Cuba not a par with say Israel in areas
such as health and education.

Sun, 2008-12-28 17:33

#35

Fidel

Kindrid wrote:

Shouldn't Costa Rica be the Latin American nation everyone be celebrating? Costa Rica has real universal health care. Costa Rica has free education. Costa Rica has freedom of the press. Costa Rica has a decent human rights record.

Costa Rica has somewhat decent health care today because Cuban doctors advised and helped them reform it. The Cubans left when it was apparent that corruption was a problem.

Costa Rica used to be a somewhat socialist country, but they've been influenced by the gringos and corruption and economic issues like every other country. Costa Rica was also used as a staging country in the 1980s for Contra mercenaries marauding into Nicaragua.

Quote:
Don't give me praises about the achievements of the Revolution. Considering the fact that small nation with a small population received billions a year in Soviet aid year after year the question to ask is not if Cuba is better than El Salvador, but rather why is Cuba not a par with say Israel in areas such as health and education.

Israel receves several billion dollars in US foreign aid every year, more than any other country. Meanwhile Cuba has to import many things from far away countries at a premium. Cuba lost its closest and most natural trade partner after 1959.

And US client states El Salvador and Haiti are repressive human rights shitholes for sure, not to mention Honduras, Guatemala, Belize, and the latest frontline state, Colombia.

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Sun, 2008-12-28 18:04

#36

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Don't feed the troll, Fidel!

Before he decided to come here and spout his State Department talking points and CIA lies, kindrid spent four years on a [url=http://www.politicalstew.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=191&si... US discussion forum[/url].

Here's his avatar:

[img]http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5649/78123269647bd7da09ef8bdl8.jpg[/img]

Here's his tag line:

"I am still a Hitler. Let me be Hitler ten-fold and that's what we stand for."

Sun, 2008-12-28 18:36

#37

CMOT Dibbler

What Fidel gave Cuba was lenninist communism, not socialism. Truly socialistic states are democratic. That dosen't mean they have to embrace Keynesian economics(that model will soon die a slow, twitchy death) but it does mean that the people must have their say.

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Takes more than combat gear to make a man Takes more than license for a gun Confront your enemies, avoid them when you can A gentleman will walk but never run -Sting, an englishman in new york

Sun, 2008-12-28 18:57

#38

Fidel

CMOT Dibbler wrote:

That dosen't mean they have to embrace Keynesian economics(that model will soon die a slow, twitchy death) but it does mean that the people must have their say.

And not only that, Cuban socialism has outlived liberal capitalism made new again around the world:

America 1900 to 1929 RIP

Chile to 9/11/73 to 1985 RIP

1980 to 2008 western world RIP

Laissez-faire capitalism in all its forms cant break the 30 year barrier without doing the grand swan dive, RIP

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/rabblerabble/1r9lpy.gif[/IMG]

Sun, 2008-12-28 19:19

#39

CMOT Dibbler

1980 to 2008 western world RIP

What!? The western world includes the United States, which is arguably the least Keynsian of the western powers. When I say Keynsian, I'm taking about the models embraced by places like Sweden and France.

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Takes more than combat gear to make a man Takes more than license for a gun Confront your enemies, avoid them when you can A gentleman will walk but never run -Sting, an englishman in new york

Sun, 2008-12-28 19:28

#40

Fidel

CMOT Dibbler wrote:

1980 to 2008 western world RIP

What!? The western world includes the United States, which is arguably the least Keynsian of the western powers. When I say Keynsian, I'm taking about the models embraced by places like Sweden and France.

And you can include India somewhat and definitely China.

And I think the U.S. itself is not a good example for the new liberal capitalism which it forced on many other developing countries in straight-up doses throughout the 1990s-2000's by way of Washington conensus, IMF, WTO etc. There is still much New Deal socialism and a vast public sector economy in the USSA to really consider it a model for its own economic prescriptions forced on its client states and Russia and South Africa in the 90's. The Asian Tiger economies took quite a different path to mixed market capitalism in the post war years than Washington consensus. But the deregulation hands-off capitalist end of things have not worked out very well at all.

Sun, 2008-12-28 19:33

#41

old_bolshie

Please phone now [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7801686.stm]Cubans Are Hurting More Than Ever !!![/url]

Sun, 2008-12-28 19:39

#42

Fidel

[url=http://www.sunwing.ca/Cuba-Travel/Santiago-De-Cuba-Vacation-Packages.asp...

Northern Ontario direct to Cuba , 7 nights all inclusive from $535 CAD thru SunWing

Viva la revolucion!

Sun, 2008-12-28 20:09

#43

CMOT Dibbler

And you can include India somewhat and definitely China.

China and India have capitalism with a conscience?

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Takes more than combat gear to make a man Takes more than license for a gun Confront your enemies, avoid them when you can A gentleman will walk but never run -Sting, an englishman in new york

Sun, 2008-12-28 20:34

#44

Fidel

Keynesian monetarism as opposed to monetarist monetarism. Visible hand policies in banking, finance, and managing China's currency. It allows them to build a city the size of San Francisco every two or three weeks.

Meanwhile cities like Vancouver cant afford to repair and upgrade aging water and sewers for a lack of money, as an example. Big water main break in the US recently, and bridges and roads, power dams, power grid infrastructure, schools and other buildings in various states of disrepair in both Canada and US. Thanks to neoliberal monetarism in Canada since the late 1980s and 1991, Canadian governments dont finance infrastructure spending like they used to. There is a lack of interest free "government created money" in circulation. And after Mulrony and David Dodge, the Liberals chose to balance federal accounting books by starving social and infrastructure spending. Canada onws a $130 billion dollar infrastructure deficit and pared down social democracy as a result.

They've been trying to soften us up for sweeping privatizations of public assets and public sector services here in Canada for many years. NeoLiberal capitalist agenda and democracy are incompatible. Nixon knew it the 1970's and refused to implement Milton Friedman's extreme free market ideology in the US just then, and so Chile was used as a test lab for the economic voodoo.

Sun, 2008-12-28 20:58

#45

old_bolshie

Note that a cheapo stay at a two star all-inclusive won't do anything for poverty stricken Cubans-unless they have a daughter whoring herself nearby*.

The Govt stooges @ the front desk and behind the bar make sure any revenue streams such as tips stick to their own grubby paws.

It sure is funny that of all the dozens of posters here I'm the only one who's actually travelled to Cuba-or is everyone here just shy?

*(and I know how everyone here would never consider such base behaviour).

Sun, 2008-12-28 21:21

#46

Fidel

Ol' Bullshie, you sound a lot like a loud mouthed poster who used to frequent this and another site and talk about fish recipes all'a time. I don't think youve been farther south than Disney World with your ma and pa on spring break. And I'll bet they couldnt stand you for very long either.

Mon, 2008-12-29 11:12

#47

Unionist

Lovely little article on BBC:

[u][b][url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7786082.stm]Reliving Cuba's Revolution[/url][/b][/u]

Mon, 2008-12-29 12:35

#48

CMOT Dibbler

Where is the Chinese social safety net? Where are the watchdog agencies that make sure factory owners walk the staight and narrow?

The reason we use China to make our cheap plastic crap is because there is no one monitoring Chinese capitalists. Dosen't sound very Keynesian to me.

P.S. Putting up massive cities incredibly fast is a good thing?

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Takes more than combat gear to make a man Takes more than license for a gun Confront your enemies, avoid them when you can A gentleman will walk but never run -Sting, an englishman in new york

Mon, 2008-12-29 12:57

#49

Kindrid

Fidel wrote:

Quote:
Costa Rica has somewhat decent health care today
because Cuban doctors advised and helped them reform it. The
Cubans left when it was apparent that corruption was a problem .

Ah, sounds like Costa Rica's health care is top notch:

Quote:
Statistics
from the World Health Organization's "The World Health Report
1995" place Costa Rica third in life expectancy in the world,
sandwiched neatly behind Japan and France and ahead of Great Britain
and the United States; and with a per capita income about one tenth
that of the other four. Certainly, some reasons for this can be found
in the Costa Rican less-than-frenetic lifestyle, the healthy, fresh,
non-preservative laden foods of the country, the tropical
climate--Costa Rica seems to be a healthy place to live. But if one
looks simply at the life issues, so are many other places on the
globe. Costa Rica is a healthy place to live because its government
continues a long-time commitment to affordable access to one of the
finest health care systems in the world for each and every
citizen.[b] In a United Nations study conducted in the 1980s, Costa
Rica's medical system was first in Latin America and ranked near the
United States and Canada among the 20 best in the world. Things are
pretty much the same today. [/b]

http://www.cocori.com/library/life/med1.htm

Maybe the people of Latin America do not need a totalitarian
police state in order to receive medical care

Mon, 2008-12-29 13:07

#50

Kindrid

BTW, it is absurd to point the finger
at Costa Rica for corruption. Corruption is a fact of daily life in
Cuba. The non-elite Cubans do have to bribe in order to get medicine.
Cubans have to use the black market in order to get basic goods that
are widely available in any Latin American nation. Kickbacks have to
be paid to land lucrative jobs in the tourist industry. A common
practice for tourist industry employees is to skim off the stock of
supplies and resell the stolen supplies on the black market.

Mon, 2008-12-29 13:14

#51

It's Me D

Can you guess the source; here's a hint, look up ^

Quote:
Cuba before the Revolution was one of the wealthiest nations in Latin America. It had a standard of living comparable to Florida at the time. There were programs for health care for workers and the health system was rated third in the Western Hemisphere. While there was rural poverty there was little or no hunger. Besides, the vast majority of Cubans were middle class living in urban areas. Now Cuba is one of the poorest in Latin America despite being the world’s greatest welfare recipient during the Cold War. So, the Cuban Revolution was more like going from a cold to terminal cancer.

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