Should the left split from the NDP?

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Mon, 2008-12-29 18:26

keglerdave

ArghMonkey stated:

"Id personally like to see the Greens and NDP join forces, lets face it the reason the CONServatives are in power is because they consolidated power, sure we know that the cons are a p.o.s. but most Canadians dont know this and the time it takes for the rest of Canada to understand the fact that the cons dont care about them will be exactly the amount of time it takes to gut Canada of everything good we have and compared to Europe we have very little good left to destroy ..."

In regards to the first statement about the Greens and NDP joining forces, probably never going to happen in all reality. The Greens are the voting choice for those who, in their own words, don't support any of the political alternatives in Canada. It is more a protest vote than that of any substantive ideas. A look at the Green Party platform will find ideas plucked from the other 3 political parties. And whats more damning about the party itself was May's slathering over a Senate appointment when the coalition was in its infancy. She did a lot of damage to herself with that manoever.

Objectively at one time you could say that the 3 main parties once all sat in the middle of the political spectrum, before Mulroney,Bouchard and Manning. At one point, the PCs were centre right, the libs were centre which ever the way the wind was blowing, and the NDP was centre left.

Ever since the Free trade agreement was passed, there has been a radical shift of the spectrum in Canada. The Cons are on the far right of the spectrum, the Libs are in total disarray at this point but normally occupy the centre right, but have moved further right to offset the Cons, leaving the NDP with the centre and centre left.

The conservative party of 2009 is definitely not the party of your parents, grandparents etc. Harper is more of a nixon clone than anything else. In his mind there are 2 important things, POWER and ABSOLUTE POWER. How else to explain the machinations going on over the Christmas break. We on the blogs are deeply involved in the politics of the day, have opinions, love debating and arguing positions, and above all, for the most part, get it. Joe and Jane Canuck, get most of their information from the media (see appointments of Mike Duffy and Pamela Wallin to the Senate by President for Life... err Prime Minister Harper).

Canwest Global, Rogers Communications, BellGlobe Media, Sun Media, TorStar enterprises... all of these companies, disgustingly monied and opinionated and for the most part all to one side of the political spectrum in Canada..... the far right. How else does a prime minister get away with what Harper did. Cause a major political crisis in amongst the deepest economic crisis to hit Canada in the past decade, and then stuff the senate like stuffing a turkey. And not take a single hit in the media over it at all, skate away unscathed like an ice dancer at the Olympics.

I think that the NDP needs to get their numbers up with Jack's. Consistently he is named the most trusted politician in poll after poll. Yet while he is dynamic and a good leader, the party's numbers haven't come up to his. One thing the federal party could do is focus on the successes the party has had in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, and the governance models that exist there. In terms of the left splitting away from the NDP, I think there needs to be some realistic thoughts on just how the party is going to get to the point of winning elections, provincially or federally. Its great to be dogmatic to the far left, but its pragmatism that wins elections. And if you can't win elections, how can you institute those policies that appeal to people?

At the end of the day, its politics stupid. Those that win, call the tune. There are huge hurdles to overcome. The NDP has overcome some major obstacles over the past couple years under Jack and others. But the predominant right wing media in this country is a huge block. I guess the NDP needs to have a look at itself and figure out where they want to go as a whole. Personally, I believe that pragmatism wins elections. Just ask the Sask and Man. NDP'ers. I'm baffled why the party doesn't talk about them as much, especially when the media throws Bob Rae and the Ontario NDP, as well as Glen Clark / Ujjal Dosanjh and the BCNDP.

Mon, 2008-12-29 19:45

#103

Stuart_Parker

They might not talk about them that much because it's a bit of a double-edged sword. I thought Elizabeth May's biggest fumble in the debate was when Duceppe corrected the other leaders on the fact that it was Saskatchewan not Alberta that had the highest rate of increase in carbon emissions and she didn't take that ball and run with it. Fortunately, as an NDP supporter, her failure left me mildly relieved.

Thu, 2009-01-01 19:05

#104

redwhitegreen

canadians are not the working class, we are the paid servants of the Empire living off the working class in the rest of the world.

I agree with keglerdave:

The experience of the NDP in Saskat5chewan and Manitoba was that you have to build up trust amongst the electorate that the NDP is not going to trash the economy. The right always scares electors with this assertion, but in Manitoba and saskatchewan we have consistantly managed the economy better than anyone else, so the electorate here are much less susceptible to this tactic.

Ontario NDP failed this test in difficult circumstances. When the economic experiment of "kickstarting the economy" by massive government spending failed, whatever the reasons, the other parties were able to say "I told you so." When the Ontario NDP failed the litmus test by refusing to implement
Government auto insurance, joe average elector, who would have been the one who benefited the most, would not trust us again.

We have to be perceived as governing on behalf of the whole of the electorate, because, let's face it we are all, small business people, farmers, hourly waged workers, part time workers, retirees, professionals, government funded workers, all of us are part of the same economy. We have been perceived as agents of class warfare when what we need to do is be perceived as the political party that will do whatever it takes to advance the welfare of the average citizen, and that will stand up in the face of injustice wherever it is found.

In BC we did well even in the face of united opposition for decades, until we fell victim to that bane of governing parties, opportunists and corruption.

Usually any party comes to power as a result of a protest vote, and that gives us a chance of proving ourselves, when the others fail dramatically.

I think that we will not be able to gain credibility on the federal level until we participate in a coalition, and that may not happen until proportional representation arrives, unless this coalition that we are a part of gains power and works well. This may be the equivalent of that protest vote that has brought our provincial parties to goverment.

It is possible that participation in a coalitionwill give us the credibility that will allow us at long last, in another 5 years to win a federal election outright.

Thu, 2009-01-01 22:08

#105

jrose

Closing for length.

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