ONDP Leadership IV

104 posts / 0 new
Last post

The NDP blew the leadership race at the start. The NDP leadership race is a sleeper like the last Federal and Provincial elections.

There is no noise.

I don't hear of any of them signing up memberships or such. 


Does anyone care about the ONDP........ because the leadership candidates need to rise up an inspire.  You know, just a tad higher then John Tory.

And McGuinty was no superstar, but the LPC and PC have some deeper rank and file depth.

The ONDP need rank and file depth and a strong leadership candidate.

Howard Hampton got a good writeup recently.  Surprised



madmax wrote:

And McGuinty was no superstar, but the LPC and PC have some deeper rank and file depth.

They're quite deep - 22 percent deep. Bay Street money doesnt buy a decent phony majority like it used to.

Lord Palmerston

Stuart_Parker wrote:

I was really hoping that someone in this leadership race would have done something to make me want to renew my membership by January 5th but so far, nothing. I'm not hearing anything more than, "Man, we need more seats... a lot more seats... but I'm going to be just like Howard Hampton only less northern and less tired."

Am I missing something? Aside from demographics and resumes, is there some difference among the candidates that I've failed to notice? 

That's a good assessment, I'm afraid.


It's better than good. It's clear and succinct.  I would trust that person with my life after delivering up that magnaminimus opus on the ONDP. He obviously knows what he's talking about. I'm impressed.


Does it not alarm anyone that Michael Prue has been running around the province claiming that he will give every riding association $10,000 and every ONDY Group $1,000 (which I still find fun that he lost at ONDYCON, he had been hammering that one all convention long. He was there the most of candidate. Not to mention his paid staff were there the entire time.)

I just find it terrible that someone would go around the province with promises like that and have no plan to pay off the current debt.


Membership ends on Jan. 5th...right?


peterjcassidy wrote:

One thing New Democrats are starting to learn is that OMOV (One Member One Vote) does little to build the party and can do a lot to harm it.  

I think my biggest worry as a riding Membership Coordinator is that the Central Party wont have all the memberships processed in time. Kingston and the Islands sent in 15 new memberships to the party before the election was called and they still have yet to be added to our list. Granted they were Federal memberships, but I think that adds to my point. We have some serious problems within the organization to even start to effectively market a leader.


That it does. 5pm sharp.

aka Mycroft

The deadline for candidates to register was December 31st so, unless someone snuck in under the wire and we haven't heard yet because of the holiday, the new leader will be one of Tabuns, Prue, Horvath or Bisson.


I'm not tremendously inspired by any of them, unfortunately.


After decades and decades, and decades of underwhelming old line party rule in Ontario and Ottawa, voters in general are uninspired.

peterjcassidy peterjcassidy's picture

Another important deadline is fast approaching. Only those
individuals who are members of the Ontario NDP by Monday, January 5,
2009 at 5:00 pm EST will be eligibile to take part in the leadership

Maysie Maysie's picture

Okay, I'm a member, I'll be voting for a new leader, and I have no idea who to vote for.

I don't have to be inspired, the person doesn't have to be the most perfect NDP leader ever. I want them to represent the province, know the varied needs of the province, and kick some Liberal butt next time around. 

The 3 preceding threads, and this one, have been a bit informative, but I remain undecided.  

I won't be able to attend the convention, but I assume there will be some sort of online way to vote. Does anyone have info about that? 


voting procedure posted on ondp website


For the first time, every Ontario New Democrat can vote for the new leader.
You must be a member by January 5 to cast your vote.
Four ways to vote:

  • by phone or internet before the March convention
  • by phone or internet on March 7
  • by regular mail before the convention
  • at the convention on March 7 (for delegates and alternates)

Maysie Maysie's picture

Thanks spincycle. 

Now, if only I could figure our who to vote for.....Smile 



Hello, my name is Jamie Masse. While I have only been a
member of the party for 3 years, I have done my absolute best to make a
positive impact by speaking openly about youth involvement and party
development for the future.

Over the next few months New Democrats from across the
province are going to be deciding who should be their next leader. I am
supporting Peter Tabuns to be that leader because I believe that Peter is the best
person for the job. Here is why:

I first met Peter when he visited Kingston just over a year
ago, having come to our city to discuss the ‘New Energy Economy’. I have
never seen so many new faces so engaged at a New Democrat meeting in Kingston.
Everyone was eager to share their ideas and solutions on the growing threat
posed by climate change - and the economic benefits of an Ontario-made

It was nothing short of inspiring. The excitement seen in
that room at that meeting certainly has been a major motivator within our
riding association, and I have no doubt that Peter’s ground-breaking work
across the province has affected a number of ridings in this fashion.

We in Kingston have continued to rally together to develop
the party and I believe that Peter's direct involvement was one of the starting
points for our growing activity. We have been busy staging and planning events
like OrangeCamp, hosting a party leadership debate and working to host an
Eastern Area Council in Kingston - scheduled for April 2009.

I am supporting Peter Tabuns because he has helped to lift
up our riding association - but more than that, I am supporting Peter because I
believe in his vision for the future of Ontario. I believe that the New Energy
Economy provides the best platform for rebuilding Ontario's economy for the 21st

We have some fundamental problems in Ontario; but they are
problems that we are very capable of solving if the political will is in place.
Having been born and raised in Windsor, I have witnessed first-hand what this
recession has done to that community. 
Poverty and crime have risen, unemployment rates are among the highest
in North America, and the population of Windsor has been slowly withdrawing.
People are leaving Ontario and moving to find desperately-needed work.

As New Democrats, we need to be willing to bring the hard
issues of climate change and economic stimulus to the forefront of the debate
in Ontario. Serious action needs to be taken now.

In order to rebuild our crumbling manufacturing sector, we
need to invest in a new kind of economic stimulus - energy. Building new power
generation alternatives and revamping transmission infrastructure will be just
the beginning to kick-start our economy. And the ripple effect of that stimulus
increases tenfold when we invest into the production of renewable resources.

I recently had the opportunity to read an article that
mentioned that German engineers and wind farm developers want to move to the
vast market of Ontario. We have the steel, we have the transport
infrastructure, and we have the wind potential. Most importantly, we also have
a corps of motivated, skilled workers who are looking to contribute to Ontario's

The ‘New Energy Economy’ is about reviving jobs in
the manufacturing sector and creating jobs in the skilled trades. Not only will
we bring work back to the blue-collar jobs in Ontario through the manufacturing
and construction sectors, but this plan will provide a direction for
white-collar work as well. Research and development industries in Ontario will
be empowered to enhance and create solutions for the 21st century.

This is the way to renew prosperity in our own house.
Ontario must take these advantages and put good hard-working people back to
work. Ontario must have a political leader with a cutting edge vision for our

Peter Tabuns can and will be that leader.


Thank you,

Jamie Masse

ONDY Fundraising Coordinator

Kingston and the Islands NDP Membership Coordinator


"Cutting edge vision?" Sounds like Superman.


Well in reality he has been talking about a plan for a long time, and now all the leadership candidates are starting to sound like him with the same exact words.

If you have been to debate, you will notice that everyone sounds exactly the same. Thats not scheer coincidence that has to do with that fact that the others are playing catchup to his policies. Peter has proved that he has a plan with regards to the economy. Not just throwing money at a problem without a solution. Energy is that solution.

Cutting Edge really talks about being the first to do it, and Peter wrote the policy for both the Federal and Provincial Wings of the party.


I hear Peter Tabuns has the support of the NDP Chinese Action Committee...is this true? 


Yes Peter does have the support of the NDP Chinese Action Committee.


I thought that was a national committee.

Maysie Maysie's picture

The website www.chinesendp.ca can't load on my browser, so I'm not sure if the site still exists.

Everything I've read says it's a national committee. 

There's a story here about the action committee:  http://www.chineseinvancouver.ca/2006/09/ndp-to-set-up-chinese-action-co...

In that blog there's a reference to an unnamed Toronto committee that's existed for 20 years, which I've never heard of. I'm rather surprised to hear about its existence now. I figure I'd have heard about it long ago. Most of the links in the blog are to non-helpful places, btw. 


I guess the question is: what's the source of JMasse's statement?


I read a facebook wall post on an event that passed (not sure how to access the page again...).  It was from a co-chair of the committee and he said there was an unanimous decision to support Tabuns.  Anyone know how many people that would represent?

Maysie Maysie's picture

I found the facebook group Chinese NDP, but there's nothing about the ONDP leadership race that I could see.



There's only been one post in the past year, and it's kind of a sad one.


Well only 1 hr and 50 mins left till the deadline. I gotta say this is where the fun is going to begin.




So when will we hear the new membership numbers? How many members are each of the campaigns claiming?


Party central is reporting about 5,000 new members signed up, with 2,000 of those coming from the leadership campaigns.

 I suspect individual campaigns will be keeping their (membership) cards very close to their vests, but I could be wrong.

As always, the very talented Dan Nolan has the story.



Somehow I have a hard time believing that the party obtained 3000 memberships by themselves, I would say a the number probably is reversed.

Sunday Hat

The 2,000 in the article refers to the memberships that flowed in on deadline day - not the total from the leadership camps.


Sunday Hat

JMasse wrote:
Cutting Edge really talks about being the first to do it, and Peter wrote the policy for both the Federal and Provincial Wings of the party.
Well, I wouldn't say the federal or provincial party has been winning kudos on the environmental policy front. In fact, the federal party's biggest gains in the last election came from ignoring environmentalists who insisted that gouging consumers was the way of the future.

Peter's got some contradictions he has yet to work out.

Like the fact that he supports (or used to support) raising electricity rates. In fact, he praised Dalton McGuinty for breaking his promise to keep a cap on hydro rates, offeing the Liberal Leader congratulations for eliminating the "artificially low" rate.

Given the misery and mass layoffs that rate hike caused - particularly in the forestry communities - I'm not sure this is the sort of thing Tabuns should be bragging about.


First I don't see the connection between an increase in energy prices
while they are at this point more than 50% subsidized and mass layoffs
in the forestry sector. Perhaps you can enlighten me on that.

we literally spend BILLIONS of tax payers dollars everyday importing
the electricity needs of our province. Wouldn't it make more sense to
own our won electricity and have thousands of jobs created because of
it? I think so. I think it makes prefect sense to own your own energy

Ontarians and Canadians do need to learn to conserve
their energy as well. There is no doubt about that. The cap and trade
program has been accepted by most environmental organizations in the
world. The problem is the greens, not the environmentalists. I've had
some very interesting conversations with many environmentalists about
Cap and Trade vs. Carbon Tax and they agree Cap and Trade is certainly
a key portion of helping reach our climate targets.



JMasse.... There is a direct connection between an increase in energy prices and mass layoffs in the forestry sectors. In the cases in the mill closings in Kenora and Thunder Bay, energy prices was the prime reason cited for closing those mills.

The fact is that the cost of energy directly impacts the cost of production, so if your cost of energy goes up, the cost of production goes up. When Harris deregulated the power system, the price of power became much higher than in neighouring jurisdictions like Manitoba and Quebec, meaning that it became much cheaper to operate in those provinces than in Ontario. That same effect on the cost of production extends beyond the forestry sector to all of the manufacturing sector too.

That is one of the reason why Gilles Bisson and Charlie Angus  have been fighting against Abitib Consolodated, who is trying to sell of their hydro dams in all across the province for a quick buck. Those are the same dams that provide the electricity to their mills.  They realize that by selling those dams, the company will have to pay a higher cost of energy, which will raise the cost of production even further and will increase the likelihood that Abitibi's remaining Ontario mills in Iroquois Falls and Fort Frances might close. 

To make the point simple, because of Ontario's current hydro policies, it costs more to produce anything in Ontario than in the provinces next door. That puts us at a competitive disadvantage and pushes business out the door. That's a reason why we should the province should have never privatized hydro and that's something that Howie Hampton had been fighting against for years.

That being said, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't make all the investments in alternative, renewable energy sources and on more energy conservation. The fact is that every single candidate in this race is in favour of making those investments. Mr. Tabuns is no different in that regard. There needs to be a mixed plan, that takes all of these things into consideration. We cannot afford to have higher hydro rates if we are going to have any industry left to buy that hydro.





Sunday Hat

As you can see, being the voice of Toronto's policy wonks can be a problem for someone who wants to speak for a whole province.

In Northern Ontario, hell in most of Ontario, telling people that their electricity is "subsidized" and needs to be more expensive (as Tabuns has) is a recipe for getting run out of town on a rail.

I know some environmentalists have embraced "market measures" but that doesn't make it smart.


I'm getting a little tired of the owners profit margins being the deciding factor in the decision-making process. I mean if a CONSERVATIVE Government in Newfoundland can reopen a paper mill than why can't Ontario?

I also think its naive to think that energy prices will be more expensive if we have our own power. It literally costs Billions for the Ontario government to export, think of all the great
things we could do with that money...

currently subsidize about half the actual price of electricity at a rate of about $0.06/KWh, while we import $0.23/KWh - $0.60/KWh, which may not seem like much to some people but its a lot higher than $0.11/KWh for wind power. Not to mention lets look at sources like Bullfrog power that have $0.089/KWh rates right now... You tell me why the above choices are smarter for us to keep paying out hand over fist.

This doesn't even talk about the very real fact that the current government is providing business with the opportunity to create their own electricity through incentives for long-term sustainability, they may not be enough but thats a different debate altogether.

Lets look at the facts, in the next 15-20 years a whooping 80% of Ontario's electricity grid
needs to be refurbished...80% now do we want to go back in time 30 years ago costing the public BILLONS more for generations to come or do we want to look towards the future?

As well, why can't any of these plants be made in Northern Ontario so the cost of delivery actually goes down?






Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

They could. I learnt recently that the Vespa wind turbines you see around Sault Ste. Marie, and all over Ontario, while made in Germany, where designed in Canada with public dollars. So what happened? The government (I assume the Feds) lacked faith in the market and allowed the patents to expire.

The issue is not who pays and for whose benefit. The question is in what direction are we headed, where to we want to be and how to we get there? The problem with planning is that it requires hindsight, analysis, foresight and a vision. The ideologues, political mercernaries, and mid-level opportunistics we tend to elect usually lack all of the above and especially foresight and vision.



Certainly I think that is the entire debate, who is the only candidate right now with Vision. I know it sounds pretty terrible, but if you listen to the speeches like I have almost everyone is recyclying policies that have been there for years.

The only person that is articulating real vision for the province of Ontario is Peter Tabuns.


I didn't realize that it was the role of the Leader to define policy for the Party.  I thought policy was determined at convention, with the adoption of resolutions.  I thought the role of the Leader was to communicate the policy adoptedd by the Party and lead the Party in the House and in elections.  My mistake.


First off, once again no one here is saying that there should be private ownership of our power resources. The fact is that when Harris/Eves privatized and de-regulated the system, the prices for hydro went through the roof, which made it more expensive to do business period. That's not saying "let corportations determine things", that's simply mathematics. We cannot be so unreasonable towards anyone who runs a business that we say to them "we don't give a rat's ass if you loose money hand over fist". If we do that, no one will ever vote for us. That's what Gilles Bisson has been talking about all along. New Democrats, both federally and provincially, have been shown in polls to not be trusted on economic issues. That's inspite of the great economic records of the majority of NDP governments. Why do you think that is? It's because of statements that show a complete lack of understanding of basic business principles. You don't have to agree with them to understand them, but you need to respect them in what you do. The fact is that we need to further subsidize the price of power to bring down power rates and we should get the whole system back in public hands asap.

As for this whole "articulating a real vision for the province", you are completely entitled to your own opinion, but Peter Tabuns is NOT, I repeat, IS NOT, the only person articulating a real vision for the province. You may like Mr. Tabuns vision more, but that does not mean that the rest do not have one. You pointed to Danny Williams in NFLD against Abitibi taking back those dams and timber rights; Who do you think has been calling for the exact same here in Ontario in regards to the rights to Abitibi's hydro dams? Gilles Bisson, not Peter Tabuns. Mr. Bisson has been talking about improving the economy in a social democratic manner, reforming our party to build stronger ridings to ensure that we can, you know, actually win, and attacking the issues that we have allowed others to define us on head on, and doing it in a manner that is inclusive. I call that a real vision for Ontario too, and if you don't care for it, that's your right. That's why you have a ballot like everyone else.

Finally, as for the "recycling of policies", maybe just maybe all of these candidates have very similar beliefs in the broad strokes of this because THEY SIT IN THE SAME CAUCUS. That doesn't mean the one has vision and the others don't. And I would say that almost everyone is doing that, they all are, including Mr. Tabuns. That because they all basically believe in the same principles.


Robo.... Thank you for pointing that out because that what I was thinking too. Last time I checked it was up to a leader to lead, build the party and communicate party policy. Howard Hampton and Jack Layton don't choose the entire platform and policy, bit by bit, by themselves. If that were the case, someone like Peter Tabuns would have never had any input into the provincial and federal platforms, something that I've heard him talk about having done at different debates.

The whole point of a leadership debate is to choose someone who can lead a whole group of people with varying ideas and varying approaches, but similar goals and core beliefs. It's also about choosing someone who can build the party, and personally I want the person that's actually done that in their part of the World. That's Gilles Bisson. He's actually helped to build the NDP to such strength that saw us nearly sweep the North in the last Federal and saw us as by far and away the 2nd choice of that same area in the last Provincial. I want that winning experience at the helm helping to build up all regions of this province to where they are having the same kind of success that the North has had.


I guess I just dont see how riding associations actually articulates as a Vision for Ontario. Certianly its a vision for the party but not really broad reaching for the entire province.

I dont really see Gilles as being the architec for the the north. I actually see Charile Angus as being one of the larger factors in that manor. Certainly his being there for 18 total years has been a backstop but the breakthrough undoubtly came from the excitement and enthusiam of Angus and the Federal Party.

Gilles campaign statements haven't been the most stricking in terms of effectiveness, talking about crime. Certainly it works in the megacity of Toronto, but certainly doesn't appeal to the entire province.



You're missing the point. The fact is that it's the party as a whole that develops policy and comes up with that vision, it's the leader that needs to build the party and help communicate that message. The fact is that if you don't win seats, you can't do much with any vision.

As for Gilles, Charlie is a great guy, but it has been Gilles hard work over the past 18 years that helped to make the situation better to help someone like Charlie win. I feel very safe in saying that Charlie would tell you as much himself. The fact is that during the last provincial election we were literally hundreds of votes away from winning 2-4 more seats, and that had absolutely nothing to do with the Federal party. That was the work of Northern MPP's like Gilles who helped to get the structure in place to make them competitive election after election. 

Finally, as for crime, that is an issue for everyone everywhere. Every community in this province has crime, and in every single one of those communities the overwhelming number of victims of crime are the poor and the disadvantaged, the same group that we profess to represent. The fact is that there are gangs, drugs and all kinds of crime in all parts of the province, and to igonre that is to be naive at best. It's an issue that speaks to everyone in different ways, in all parts of the province. Plus, heaven forbid that a Northern candidate speak to an issue that Torontonians care about. The nerve of him to do that Wink. Gilles idea about opening schools for after hours activities for youth is a great idea that has been proven elsewhere to keep kids involved in activites, put them on the right track, learn important life skills, build better communities and keep kids out of crime. That's a concept that can work anywhere, regardless of the size of the community. Crime is a symptom of poverty, and it needs to be looked at that way. 

Sunday Hat

JMasse: "I'm getting a little tired of the owners profit margins being the deciding factor in the decision-making process. I mean if a CONSERVATIVE Government in Newfoundland can reopen a paper mill than why can't Ontario?"
Well, that's actually my point. The only reason that Tabuns and others called for higher hydro rates is so so-called "green companies" could get into the "electricity market" and make more money. Ontario was built on socialized electricity (though the architects of the system nver called it that) and when the Conservatives and now the Liberals started dismantling that to allow for "competition" a lot of so-called progressives went along - and it's caused a lot of grief for people who need affordable electricity.

JMasse said: "I also think its naive to think that energy prices will be more expensive if we have our own power."

Huh? Who said otherwise?

JMasse said: "Lets look at the facts, in the next 15-20 years a whooping 80% of Ontario's electricity gridneeds to be refurbished...80% now do we want to go back in time 30 years ago costing the public BILLONS more for generations to come or do we want to look towards the future?"

As well, why can't any of these plants be made in Northern Ontario so the cost of delivery actually goes down?

I think you're missing the point. The question isn't whether we will re-build Ontario's electricity infrastructure. It's how will we get the money to do it and who will own it at the end.

Some people, and Peter Tabuns was one of them, answered that question by saying "Citizens should pay through higher electricity rates" and "the private sector will build it and own it". That was not a smart argument in 2004 and it's been an absolute disaster ever since - particularly in resource communities.

I don't think the NDP can campaign in the midst of a recession with a message of "Pay more for electricity"


You are absolutely right SH, we certainly can't campaign on that, but what we can campaign on is the growing jobs in the new energy sector. Its not just manufacturing and designing jobs its also teaching and training. Research and development positions as well. There are many oppurtunities for Ontarians in a high resource economic market. Certainly during a recession the biggest question is where are we going to get the jobs of today. As for the question of where are we going to get the money, because a lot neh-sayers will jump all over us on that one, we will respond with smarter less wasteful spending particularly the savings of getting out of the Nuclear Era.


I for one cannot believe that the plan to build the NDP membership starts by telling Ontarians they have to pay more for their energy.  This is not the way to attract people to the party.  Rather, a leader needs to be practical, hardworking and have a vision for building a strong foundation for a party of the future. NDP membership growth and the development of voter appeal will not happen overnight. It will be a painstaking process that requires innovations in the development of successful membership drives which will translate into increased voter support and fundraising initatives.  The last thing the NDP needs is to polarize itself and further entrench as the the party of protest. Both Tabuns (anti nuke/Greenpeace) and Prue (extreme socialist cacus/reopen the debate on school funding) represent this danger. Only Horwath and Bisson represent a commitment to opening the party to the evenminded electorate.  I'd have to say the future of the NDP as a party that can generate appeal outside of the far left thus enabling electoral success and the subsequent ability to enable social democratic policy is in their hands now.  Or the NDP membership's hands that is.


No offence intended SN, but suggesting that being anti-nuke - a cornerstone of NDP policy for a long time- is somehow radical is just plain silly. The fact is many people left and otherwise know that Nuke power is not only just dangerous, outdated and prohibitively expensive with constant cost overruns  (I'll bet ya a shiny nickel that the "new/refurbished" power plants are going to cost a hell of a lot more than McGuinty will admit)...  Just because the McLiberals lacked any vision for real energy efficiency, and not developing real alternatives as well as the amazing spin off of jobs that would create -face it, they copped out-  does not mean Nuclear is right. This is not a "far left" point of view at all IMHO.

As for "paying more for energy"..... Tabuns was a special advisor to Layton on climate change..... the result of it being Hard Cap, with big polluters pay, NOT every day Canadians. Last time I checked, that's what's being embraced by the rest of the western world, including the U.S. (Despite what the hopefully soon to be ejected Federal Cons say, they are not going to be able to dictate a "do nothing" climate change policy with the incoming U.S administration). Finally, the lead balloon of the alternative Carbon Tax in Canada is a dead horse. See last election and palpable outrage in BC for details. I've gotta spin bust this one because you obviously haven't read Tabun's New Energy Economy.... I suggest you do.... it starts with 5 points, the very first one being....

Lowering energy costs.





aka Mycroft

Toronto Ginger Project Meeting on Wednesday:


Subject: Reminder: Toronto Round Two is at Hand!!!

Round One was a great success, with a varied and interesting discussion, a terrific turnout, new additions to the platform, and new thoughts on our direction.

Now is time for Toronto Round Two!

Join us again at The Library Pub (upstairs at The Imperial) and help us create a Socialist Platform for the NDP. This is located at 53 Dundas St. E. in downtown Toronto. (Just east of Dundas & Yonge and about a 1 minute walk east of Dundas subway station).

If you were at the last meeting, come again to see the unveiling of new planks and to assess our progress. If you missed it, now is your chance to contribute.

Together we can push the new leader of the Ontario NDP and the upcoming NDP convention to adopt an agenda that signifies a left-shift and a new street based politics!

Whether you are a member of our group or not, invite your friends (on and off Facebook) and come on out and enjoy an evening of debate, discussion, democracy and drinks!

This time we are meeting Wednesday, January 14th at 7:30 pm.

See you there.


If the last federal election proved anything it is that the average person is sadly, not overly concerned with the environment. (See Green shift failure) Yes nuclear is impractical and expensive and everyone wants a better way but the simple reality is that infastructure renewal, health care and the economy rank much higher on the priority list of the average Ontarian. People like having their electricity readily available to power their homes, computers, tvs, hospitals and lifestyles. To suggest that the strategy to attract voters to the party is to tell them we are gonna make big corporations pay to lower our energy and we're going to clean  up the nuke plants at the same time is a tad naive.  Its even more naive to buy in to the concept that dismantling nuke plants and building wind farms and solar plants is the way of the immediate future. The next twenty years is going to be about roads, cities, transit, and servicing the needs of retiring (read voting) baby boomers.  Not about ban the bomb, hemp shoe, love ins.  This talk does not translate to the language of the employed electorate.  If the NDP wants to grow they need to talk about issues that resonate with left center voters and move a touch away from the extreme left.  I've seen the five point plan. It is nice. Try selling it to the masses and convincing them that they wont have to pay for it and you'll be riding the third party opposition benches for the next twenty years. 



Topic locked