http://canadian-firebrand.blogspot.com/2009/01/liberal-mps-gagged-on-gaza.html
I've just heard word from a reliable source that Liberal MPs have been
instructed not to speak at Gaza solidarity rallies with the threat that
if they do their nominations forms will not be signed for the next
election. I wonder if Liberals have been given the same instruction in
relation to pro-Israel rallies?
Well, that should be easy enough to verify or infirm. Has your local Grit MP or candidate been seen at such rallies? Can you call him/her up to find out their position? Will you?
I've talked with a few people and no politicians - at all - were spotted at the weekend's Toronto rally, by anyone I spoke to.
Unfuckingbelievable seriously, has the pro_israeli lobby got that much power that it holds everyone hostage?
___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"
Only if we let it, by writing ten times less letters and op-eds than it does, and by reelecting their stooges.
Only if we let it, by writing ten times less letters and op-eds than it does, and by reelecting their stooges.
Who do we elect though? I'm sorry if I'm being Manitoba-centric here, but I can't think of any elected politician in Manitoba that has been vocally critical of Israel in recent years. At least two of the Manitoba NDP MPs (Pat Martin and Judy W-L) as well as the provincial government and many MLAs have been very supportive of Israel.
I don't think there is any party in Canada which opposes Israeli apartheid and supports Palestine, aside from the Communist Parties
Not all that surprising, given Iggy's statement:
The Liberal Party of Canada unequivocally condemns the rocket attacks
launched by Hamas against Israeli civilians and calls for an immediate
end to these attacks. We affirm Israel's right to defend itself against
such attacks, and also its right to exist in peace and security.
...which is indistinguishable from that of the Bush administration.
It appears Harper can no longer use Israel as a wedge issue in the Jewish community.
I didn't see any politicians in Winnipeg either
EDIT: I should say, any elected politicians. I saw some people from both Communist Parties
Unfuckingbelievable seriously, has the pro_israeli lobby got that much power that it holds everyone hostage?
___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"
It's not the lobby ... it's the war industry ... You know ... the corporate controllers of all governments world-wide, who get governments to do their dirty genocide jobs for them.
It's not politics, not religion ... it's just 'business', imo.
It's not the lobby ... it's the war industry ... You know ... the corporate controllers of all governments world-wide, who get governments to do their dirty genocide jobs for them.It's not politics, not religion ... it's just 'business', imo.
Not the whole story; I doubt Iggy is telling his MPs to avoid all anti-war rallies, just these ones. I could be wrong about that, I suppose.
Ontario Liberal MPP Khalil Ramal and NDP MP Irene Mathyssen were out in London a week ago.
Not all that surprising, given Iggy's statement:
The Liberal Party of Canada unequivocally condemns the rocket attacks launched by Hamas against Israeli civilians and calls for an immediate end to these attacks. We affirm Israel's right to defend itself against such attacks, and also its right to exist in peace and security....which is indistinguishable from that of the Bush administration.
It appears Harper can no longer use Israel as a wedge issue in the Jewish community.
But the NDP might be able to, since of course not all Jews are Zionist fuckheads, and oppose this brutal assault. Can we at least get it straight here, on this website, of all websites, that a great many Jews are really uncomfortable with being associated with this kind of brutality, and that Jews do not block vote in support of Israel?
I would estimate that more Jews have attended the protests against the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, than have appeared at the so called counter-demonstrations. Its quite apparent that most responsible Jewish leaders in Canada are low profiling their involvement with the present assault on the people of Gaza.
For example, in the reporting that the Star did on the rally in Toronto the only spokesperson who the Star interviewed was Meir Weinstein, the organizer for the neo-Fascist extremist Jewish Defence League. Even the scurilous Bernie Farber of the CJC was not available for comment, apparently.
That, in and of itself, says something about how Jews feel about what is going on at this point in time.
So far, all we have is your assertion that you have a reliable source stating that the Liberals have been instructed not to speak at these rallies. I for one can't accept your premise without at least a little more information. Given the situation there it is too easy to throw gas on the fire as it were with this sort of unsubstatiated statement.
The easiest way to disprove the statement is to find a Liberal MP who has spoken to a Gaza rally.
All I can say is that this is what rally organizers were told.
The easiest way to disprove the statement is to find a Liberal MP who has spoken to a Gaza rally.
All I can say is that this is what rally organizers were told.
That doesn't disprove anything. Not everyone is going to support these rallies. I would be dismayed if a political party took this sort of stance, (with the exception of Harper's party who might be expected to resort to this sort of tactic). I would need more than your assertion that this was what rally organizers were told. The mess in the middle east needs a lot more critical thinking and reason and a lot less jumping to conclusions. There has been enough of that already.
What is so strange about a party telling its MPs which issues to speak publicly about, which ones to stay quiet about, which events to attend, and what to say?
They tell them how to vote in the Commons, don't they?
I don't get what the fuss is here. The egregious and horrendous thing is Ignatieff's public position on the Gaza situation. If he needed to order his caucus not to speak at rallies, it means he's afraid that the caucus stand may not be monolithic on this point. That's good news.
I can't blame politicians too much for not wanting to jump head-first into this issue, so I'm not sure whether ordering any not to go is really required.
But the NDP might be able to, since of course not all Jews are Zionist fuckheads, and oppose this brutal assault. Can we at least get it straight here, on this website, of all websites, that a great many Jews are really uncomfortable with being associated with this kind of brutality, and that Jews do not block vote in support of Israel?I would estimate that more Jews have attended the protests against the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, than have appeared at the so called counter-demonstrations. Its quite apparent that most responsible Jewish leaders in Canada are low profiling their involvement with the present assault on the people of Gaza.
I agree with you for the most part. However the Harper Conservatives almost certainly made inroads in the Jewish community with their Israel stance. It is not anywhere near a majority of the community - the plurality are still Lib - but it was significant enough to get Peter Kent elected in the riding of Thornhill, for instance.
That being said, the NDP statement isn't as critical of Israel as they were circa 2002 but their statement is light years better than that of Ignatieff, which is identical to the Bush administration. In fact it is Ignatieff who is taking the "lead" - Iggy's statement dates Dec. 29 and that of Lawrence Cannon - which is basically identical - dates Jan. 4. Stephen Ignatieff indeed.
In fact it is Ignatieff who is taking the "lead" - Iggy's statement dates Dec. 29 and that of Lawrence Cannon - which is basically identical - dates Jan. 4. Stephen Ignatieff indeed.
I wish - but that's not accurate.
Cannon's original statement, which Iggy basically copied, was issued [url=http://w01.international.gc.ca/minpub/Publication.aspx?isRedirect=True&p... 27, 2008[/color][/b][/url], as reported [url=http://rabble.ca/comment/973853/Ive-been-asked-pass][b][color=red]right here on babble by jrose[/color][/b][/url].
Let them fight over who's the egg and who's the chicken. I agree, the NDP is still light years ahead. The wedge may indeed change.
I think actually the "support for Israel right or wrong" line plays better with non-Jews than it does with Jews. Jews have become a kind of cause celebre for non-Jews who want to give themselves tollerance street cred.
Harpo and Iggy can paint themselves as true defenders of civil liberties by sticking by Israel. All of which is supported by the general feeling of sympathy because of what happened in the last war (note I am saying "the last") and our grandiose conceptions of ourselves as defenders of the weak, and our role in liberating Western Europe from tyrrany.
Defending Israel (and therefore Jews) is the ideologically sanctioned way that one can express ones "good intentions", and is unassailable as such because of the unique circumstances in which our cultural concept of Jewishness comes into the context of the present day.
Jews, on the whole, (Zionist and otherwise,) are far less enamoured of all of that because most are fully cognizant of the reality, which is that European Christians basically abandoned them when not directly persecuting them, knowing full well that the Allies fought WWII because it was forced on them, not because they wanted to save anyone from concentration camps.
But yes, defending Israel is like a tollerance "get out of jail free" card for the gentile right, and that patriotic sentiment and sense of moral righteousness is precisely the market they are playing into among non-Jews, not the "Jewish vote", because for most white Christian anglos Israel and Jews are synonymous.
I can't blame politicians too much for not wanting to jump head-first into this issue, so I'm not sure whether ordering any not to go is really required.
Would it really hurt them so much politically to do the right thing, take some leadership, and inform Canadians?
Would it really hurt them to say that (as I understand it from some links on here) over 500 civilian and Hamas deaths* in the last week is unacceptably disproportionate to the 4 Israeli (soldiers?) deaths in a year of Palestinian rocket fire into Israel?
*Not distinguished. If anyone finds a properly distinguished death toll for Gaza citizens and military, let me know.
These maps are informative.
Week 2
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7811189.stm
Week 1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7805808.stm
And this ...
ISRAEL'S SELF-DEFEATING GAZA OFFENSIVE
By Gideon Rachman
Financial Times (London)
January 5, 2009 -- 19:04 GMT [11:04 PST]
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/34c5a426-db49-11dd-be53-000077b07658.html
By sending ground troops into the Gaza Strip, Israel has crossed a line that brings it perilously close to strategic failure.
Just as with the Lebanon war of 2006, an air bombardment has failed to
stop rocket fire into Israel -- and has been followed by a ground
invasion. The Israeli government says it has learned the lessons of its
stalemated war with Hezbollah, the Lebanese militia. Gaza is more
hospitable terrain than southern Lebanon; Hamas is militarily weaker
than Hezbollah; Israel is better prepared and is using new tactics.
Maybe so. But what are Israel’s strategic needs? The first is the
protection of Israeli citizens; the second is the re-establishment of
Israel’s deterrent power; the third is the preservation of
international support; and the fourth some prospect of durable peace.
Each one of these objectives is now in peril.
By
sending the army into Gaza, Israel has probably ensured it will lose
many more lives than the four killed by Hamas rockets in the year
before the conflict started. It is, of course, the job of the military
to take casualties to protect civilians. But Israel’s is a citizen
army. The point has not been lost on the Israeli public. A poll taken
early in the conflict found more than 70 per cent support for bombing
Gaza -- but just 20 per cent support for a ground invasion.
full text here ... http://www.ufppc.org/content/view/8256/35/
Cartoon illustration here ...
http://media.ft.com/cms/eaa615ec-db52-11dd-be53-000077b07658.jpg
And this ...
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=98768
"Our
message to the Zionist community is this - your leaders are spilling
your blood to win an election," he said, referring to snap legislative
polls called for February 10. Various analysts have said that the
Israeli bombardment is geared to drum up support for politicians in the
coming polls.
omigod this is so sick ...
:(
This is what struck me about that last one Saga:
Children again fell victim to the bombardment, with two young sisters dying when a missile slammed into a donkey cart in northern Gaza.
Par for the course for some third world backwater of the kind that lives in the world of Rudyard Kippling. Donkeys, Camels, Arabs all swirl together in the imagination as the backdrop of a poor and backward people fed on superstition and ignorance by their religious mentors... but wait...
Gaza was not like that 50 years ago. Gaza was an up-to-date and modern city and something of a mediteranean resort, with one of the most highly educated populations in the Arab world.
It's a "crime against civilization" as the director of the recently flattened Americas Institute stated after his school was targetted by the IDF. Israel has reduced the people of Gaza to riding around in donkey carts, slowly at first and then in ever increasing strides over a period of 40 years of occupation.
But the Doug's of the world "can't blame" the politicians.
Defending Israel (and therefore Jews) is the ideologically sanctioned
way that one can express ones "good intentions", and is unassailable as
such because of the unique circumstances in which our cultural concept
of Jewishness comes into the context of the present day.Jews, on the whole, (Zionist and otherwise,) are far less enamoured
of all of that because most are fully cognizant of the reality, which
is that European Christians basically abandoned them when not directly
persecuting them, knowing full well that the Allies fought WWII because
it was forced on them, not because they wanted to save anyone from
concentration camps.
That's right on the money Cue. I was thinking to myself while reading/listening to some of the apologists for the ethnic cleansing in Gaza that this is a form of white liberal guilt syndrome (WLGS). There is still 1000+ of antisemitism embedded in the European gentile consciousness and the overwhelming guilt of the holocaust. These manifest themselves in some as unfettered support for Israeli colonialism. The theocratic state of Israel could even been born of WLGS as some European anti-Semites (i.e. politicians) made amends for their widespread support of Nazism in a way that would not require any change or transformation on their part.
People should be aware that when they get that "those poor people" feeling that they should first look at how they are implicated in the poverty of others before they try to "help".
I agreed with Unionist that we should not be suprised by Iggy's hardline with MPs but should see the brighter side of things - there must be some dissention in the Liberal Party. Wierd, not often that a Liberal will disent on actual issues when there are internal party sqaubbles to occupy every waking hour.
Does anyone have proof of that the Human Rights activist and leader of the Liberal party has banned Liberal MPs from attending rallies are is this just a thread on hearsay.....taken from a blog based on hearsay.
According to Kady O'Malley, Iggy's office denies the story. I'd find the denial more believable if it wasn't for the fact that no Liberal MPs spoke or apparently even attended the rallies last weekend when, in the past, they've been quite eager to come out.
According to Kady O'Malley, Iggy's office denies the story. I'd find the denial more believable if it wasn't for the fact that no Liberal MPs spoke or apparently even attended the rallies last weekend when, in the past, they've been quite eager to come out.
So this is still just a thread based on hearsay and your personal beliefs. You need to back up your assertions that what you allege is based on fact.
There are more rallies this weekend. Now that it's "official" that Liberal MPs won't be punished let's see if they find the courage of their convictions to speak out or if they find some other excuse to remain silent.
Does anyone have proof of that the Human Rights activist and leader of the Liberal party has banned Liberal MPs from attending rallies are is this just a thread on hearsay.....taken from a blog based on hearsay.
Hahaha! Tortureboy, being touted as a "human rights activist"! :D :D
For Iggy having to live in Etobicoke Lakeshore would be torture which is why he has a condo in Yorkville instead.
I would estimate that more Jews have attended the protests against the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, than have appeared at the so called counter-demonstrations.
Maybe. But if we keep seeing shit like this that amy change. http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024263.php#comments
I certainly don't want to attend anything where I'm called a "product of pigs" and told that "Hitler didn't do a good enough job." This in Toronto.
Hahaha! Tortureboy, being touted as a "human rights activist"! :D :DYou have a problem with Ignatieffs position for the allowable use of torture?
When a "human rights activist" starts saying there's an "allowable use of torture" we have a problem.
I certainly don't want to attend anything where I'm called a "product of pigs" and told that "Hitler didn't do a good enough job." This in Toronto.
I looked at this Islamophobic racist hate site - as per your recommendation - and didn't hear anyone say "Hitler didn't do a good enough job". I notice too that you yourself added the word [b][i]"enough"[/i][/b] - I guess the original "Hitler didn't do a good job" wasn't shocking enough for your taste, so you had to sex it up a little wee bit?
It was, in fact, the "interviewer" who tried to put these words into one demonstrator's mouth, and when he persisted, the demonstrator appears to have put his fist into the baiting "interviewer"'s camera. Good for him!!
I notice you also seem to credit the Islamophobes' "interpretation" of the Quran!
Some people will go far to find anti-Semitism where it doesn't exist - even to the point of trying to provoke it. Such hatemongers are the enemies of my people.
Well put, Unionist!
There are more rallies this weekend. Now that it's "official" that Liberal MPs won't be punished let's see if they find the courage of their convictions to speak out or if they find some other excuse to remain silent.
Too late!!
An Alberta Tory beat them to it!
http://www.rabble.ca/comment/976579/It-got-picked
And the Western Standard published it.
Did I really just say those things? unfriggenbelievable!
I would estimate that more Jews have attended the protests against the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, than have appeared at the so called counter-demonstrations.
Maybe. But if we keep seeing shit like this that amy change. http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024263.php#comments
I certainly don't want to attend anything where I'm called a "product of pigs" and told that "Hitler didn't do a good enough job." This in Toronto.
You might like to know that Jihadwatch has a sister site called Jewwatch, they have similar standards.
First off, where is the begining of the interview with the fella who says "Hitler didn't do a good job"? I mean after all, it is the internet, and there is plenty of bandwidth so why the need for the "edit". Secondly, I don't happen to think Hitler did "a good job".
Do you?
When you were on your way to becoming an "academic", did anyone teach you anything about standards of evidence? I really hope you don't teach journalism. I also really hope you don't do any ESL work
Anyway, you were talking about how you condemn the horrific attack upon an urban population using high explosive devices that cause indescriminate damage, and therefore necessarily wound and kill numerous non-combatants, something for which Gen Dragomir Milosevic was tried for at the Hague for his actions in 1992.
As the presiding judge noted when he sentenced the former JNA general to 33 years in jail:
"There was no safe place in Sarajevo," said the presiding judge, Patrick Robinson, reading from the judgment. "One could be killed and injured anywhere and any time."[SNIP]
Milosevic, commander of 18,000 Bosnian Serb troops who besieged Sarajevo between August 1994 and November 1995, had denied all charges, arguing that the city was a battleground and his forces were carrying out legitimate military operations.
Robinson rejected this, saying the evidence showed the general "planned and ordered gross and systematic violations of international humanitarian law".
Does that sound like this to you?
Ging told reporters at U.N. headquarters by videolink from Gaza that three artillery shells landed at the perimeter of the school where 350 people were taking shelter.He said UNRWA regularly provided the Israeli army with exact geographical coordinates of its facilities and the school was in a built-up area. "Of course it was entirely inevitable if artillery shells landed in that area there would be a high number of casualties," he said.
Casualty numbers were still being assessed but the latest figures were 30 dead and 55 injured, including at least five critically, Ging said.
UN official says Gaza school was clearly marked
Frankly, if the Gaza Strip were filled with Nazis wearing Swastika armbands, it would still be wrong to starve them, bomb them, and deny them medical aid, even if one or two managed to escape the prison, or kill a few people elsewhere, once in a while. That is the kind of thing they did. It is called collective punishment. That is why were opposed to them, remember?
Please go on expressing of your learned opinions. Your bountiful humanitarian instincts and principles shine like the sun on a summer day.
I certainly don't want to attend anything where I'm called a "product of pigs" and told that "Hitler didn't do a good enough job." This in TorontoThe video is a highly manipulative JDL production. In the second case the guy was being badgered by someone with a camera and we only have part of the interview where the man, who was struggling in English, said "Hitler didn't do a good job" (not 'enough'). Well what does that mean? We don't know what led up to that statement. Does anyone out there who isn't a nazi think Hitler did a good job at anything?
If the conversation was something like:
Q: What do you think of Hitler?
A: Hitler didn't do a good job
How is that to be taken as approval of Hitler?
I was at the rally. I was under a large banner that identified me and others around me as Jewish. No one said anything in the least bit hostile to me - quite the opposite.
That one, or perhaps two, people in the entire rally of 10,000 said something questionable is unfortunate but I suspect had someone turned the cameras on the JDL and asked them what they think about Arabs you would have gotten quite a number of shocking statements.
Yeah, I buy it. The guy who said "Hitler didn't do a good job" (before punching someone) is really AGAINST Hitler. I certainly can't imagine he has ANYTHING agaisnt Jews. And the guy calling them the "product of pigs"...um, well, why don't one of you defenders get back to me for a plausible explantaion for that one and how IT isn't anti-Smitism either.
And this guy here http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_spine/archive/2008/12/29/quot-death-to-all-juice-quot.aspx
I'm sure HE isn't an anti-Semite calling for genocide as well as being too dumb to spell. I'm sure he jsut really hates juice.
Yes, Mycroft. That guy who violently attacked the guy with teh camera in teh midst of a rally where people were calling Jews the products of pigs...I'm sure in the fuller context of that video, he was really jsut explaining the the flaws of Nazi Germany's transportation policy. I'm sure it was edited from "Hitler didn't do a a good job when it came to easing traffic congestion on Berlin freeways." I shouldn't ahve leapt to conclusions and assumed the worst.
Want to take a stab at explaining away the guy calling them the products of pigs?
How about the guy in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NW6gvrug44&eur - the one making the "throat slitting" gesture to the Jewish group across the street? I'll give him the benefit of teh doubt and assume he wasn't trying to intimidate them or threaten violence. I'm sure he was merely inviting them over for dinner after teh rally for a nice chat and the throat-sliting gesture was to assure them that the meat they'd be eating was slaughtered in the correct manner, rendering it kosher.
[/quote]
You might like to know that Jihadwatch has a sister site called Jewwatch, they have similar standards.
[/quote]
They're not "sister sites" at all. "Jew watch" is run by Frank Wetner, a member fo teh National Alliance. "Jihad Watch" is run by Robert Spencer, a writer on religion. Amazing what you can find out with Google and 30 seconds of effort.
Do you think Ehud Barak is doing a good job?
Star I've talked to JDL people in the past and they say things about Arabs and Palestinians that make the claims in that video look like kindergarten. Would you make a generalization about all Jews based on what a few members of the JDL terrorist group say?
No, but I sure as hell wouldn't attend events of theirs, welcome them to anything I was involved with and if i ever did encounter them yelling their vitriol and hate, I'd be the first person to ask them to stop and explain that they were discrediting everyone else present.
Yes, Mycroft. That guy who violently attacked the guy with teh camera in teh midst of a rally where people were calling Jews the products of pigs
People? I only saw one person in that video saying that.
...I'm sure in the fuller context of that video, he was really jsut explaining the the flaws of Nazi Germany's transportation policy. I'm sure it was edited from "Hitler didn't do a a good job when it came to easing traffic congestion on Berlin freeways." I shouldn't ahve leapt to conclusions and assumed the worst.
Why do you think the first part of the exchange was edited out? Could it be to distort the second part? Of course not because JDL videographers are such trustworthy people who would never distort something a Palestinian said in order to create propaganda.
Star I've talked to JDL people in the past and they say things about Arabs and Palestinians that make the claims in that video look like kindergarten. Would you make a generalization about all Jews based on what a few members of the JDL terrorist group say? Of course not. So why are you insisting we generalize about all Palestinians based on your little JDL propaganda film?
How about the guy in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NW6gvrug44&eur - the one making the "throat slitting" gesture to the Jewish group across the street?
Jewish group? You mean the terrorist group called the JDL (the FBI describes them as such). Why do you assume that hostility shown towards a terrorist quasi-fascist group called the JDL would be hostility towards Jews in general? There were a number of Jews in the rally (more, in fact, than were standing with the JDL) most of us were very identifiable and none of us were subjected to any threats or nasty gestures except from your terrorist friends in the JDL perhaps.
No, but I sure as hell wouldn't attend events of theirs,
Did you attend the counterrally because if you did then you sure as hell attended an event of theirs. The video, btw, is taken from the vantage point of the JDL's counterdemo and is a JDL video.
I'll add that my point in posting a few videos and pics of radical anti-semites at these events isn't to paint everyone with a broad brush. Obviously, opposition to Israel's actions are not inherently anti-Semitic.
But people ahve completely dismissed the idea that there's ANYTHING whatsoever or anyone whatsoever in this movement driven by anti-semitism and that's completely naive and disingenuous. Sometimes, opposition to Israel IS used as a transparent cloack to mask real hatred of Jews.
Exhibit A:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090106/ap_on_re_eu/eu_europe_gaza_jews_attacked
"PARIS – Government officials and Jewish leaders are concerned the conflict in Gaza may spill over into violence in Europe, with attacks reported against Jews and synagogues in France, Sweden and Britain.
Assailants rammed a burning car into the gates of a synagogue in Toulouse, in southwest France, Monday night.
A Jewish congregation in Helsingborg, in southern Sweden, was attacked Monday night by someone who "broke a window and threw in something that was burning," said police spokesman Leif Nilsson. And on Sunday slogans, including "murderers ... You broke the cease-fire," were daubed on Israel's Embassy in Stockholm.
In Denmark, a 27-year-old Dane born in Lebanon to Palestinian parents is alleged to have injured two young Israelis last week in a shooting police suspect could be linked to the Gaza crisis. Belgium ordered police in Antwerp and Brussels to be on increased state of alert" Tuesday after recent pro-Palestinian protests ended in violence and arrests."
There were a number of Jews in the rally (more, in fact, than were standing with the JDL) most of us were very identifiable and none of us were subjected to any threats or nasty gestures except from your terrorist friends in the JDL perhaps.
Let me ask you an honest question and i will trust the sincerity of your response. Would you feel comofrtable wearing a yarmulke to that rally in Toronto?
To answer your question, no, I did not attend the counter-rally as
a)I haven't lived in Toronto in some time
b)I don't support Israel's actions
c) I wouldn't want to attend an even organzied by the JDL if that is, indeed, who organized the event.
Let me ask you an honest question and i will trust the sincerity of your response. Would you feel comofrtable wearing a yarmulke to that rally in Toronto?
Throughout the entire length of the rally I was carrying a lage banner that said "Jews in solidarity with Gaza" which I think quite clearly identified me as Jewish so yes, if wearing yarmulkes was my thing then I would feel comfortable.
I guess I could go with a yarmulke and wearing a prayer shawl etc but since I'm not religious it would be more than a bit insincere.
Any large rally on any issue will attract some extremist loons but you can't paint an entire rally based on the fringe, that's just propaganda. Having a rally on the war of Lebanon where one guy unfurls a Hezbollah flag does not make it a "Hezbollah rally". A handful of anti-semites in a crowd of 10,000 does not make it an anti-Semitic rally.
The CJC is organizing a pro-Israel rally on Thursday. I'll bet you $1000 that if I went to the rally with a video camera and interview enough people I'd find quite a number who will call the Palestinians animals, imply they are not human beings, deny they even exist (a common JDL theme) as well as a number who would say that every single Palestinian in Israel or the occupied territories should be deported to Jordan and other countries. I might even find one or two who say the IDF should kill every single person in Gaza. I'd also find a number who call the Palestinians Nazis and imply that if Gaza isn't crushed there'll be another Holocaust.
So what would that prove?
As for Nazi analogies and references to the Holocaust extremists on both sides are engaging in this. For example, here's a recent email from Zionist propagandist Ami Iseroff:
The New York Times issue below rightly condemns the bloodthirsty Zionists for their disproportionate response in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, Headlines:
Warsaw Ghetto Uprising an Over-Reaction
European Leaders Blame Jews for Disproportionate Response
Zionist Violence Shatters Hopes for A Peaceful Solution
Peace Vigil Calls for a Cease Fire
Zionists must be held accountable for war crimes
Culture Shock: U.S. Knee Jerk support of Zionist Lobby Irritates Cultured Europeans
Those ZIonists are always talking about the Holocaust. Just because Hamas declares they want to wipe out the Jews and a few Zionists get killed, is no reason to get excited, right?
Ami Isseroff
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37523188@N00/215818828/
Anyway, you were talking about how you condemn the horrific attack upon
an urban population using high explosive devices that cause
indescriminate damage, and therefore necessarily wound and kill
numerous non-combatants, something for which Gen Dragomir Milosevic was tried for at the Hague for his actions in 1992.
Your comparison is valid, however we both know the consequences won't be similar; the Hague is for prosecuting Serbs.
Has SSC apologized yet for - or simply corrected - his fabrication whereby he added the word "enough" to the hatemongering interviewer's question? If not, AKA M, I would question why you're continuing to patiently explain things to him, as if he's just some misguided well-intentioned soul who doesn't have all the facts about some rally? His consistent screed here is an attempt to connect anti-Israel activism with anti-Semitism. That kind of hatemongering doesn't fall within the category of innocent ignorance.
