You have no idea what you're talking about.
Gaza and Israel VI
Tue, 2009-01-13 11:55
#102
Catchfire
Tue, 2009-01-13 11:59
#103
To use an analogy, there's an anti-poverty organization in Toronto called OCAP that I'm sure many here are familiar with. Their goals are noble ones: helping the poor through building more affordable housing, raising welfare rates, helping people with disabilities, etc. But several years back, they held a rally in Yorkville, marching through the streets calling the people sitting on patios and people living in teh condos "yuppie scum" amongst other choice epithets. Now that my parents are empty-nesters, they live in a condo in Yorkville. Despite agreeing with OCAP's views on policy, I get turned off when people call my family "scum." And despite agreeing with many of the protesters outstide the consulate, I get turned off when people tell my family to "go back to the ovens." My grandfather's parents and 6 of his brotehrs and sisters DID end up in those ovens and when I see people yelling shit like that while otehrs do nothing...well, I'm jsut glad my grandfather isnt around to see it.
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:08
#104
Cueball
I see you have finally decided to out yourself as a Zionist, and have stopped pretending you object to the massacre in Gaza, and would rather prattle on about some minor incidents where some persons may, or may not have, compared fascist counter-demonstrators to "pigs".
Now if I call a Jewish cop a "pig" am I being an anti-semite?
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:09
#105
Cueball
You may go so far as to say "most." Until 1948, virtually everyone in "orthodoxy" was anti-Zionist.
I don't think I really want to get into a theological debate with you, because you are hopelessly "political" but to many Orthodox Rabbis the Israeli "state" seems to be more or less irrelevant theologically speaking, which does not mean that they are not "Zionist", if you see what I am saying.
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:10
#106
Enlighten me, Cueball. Where, exacltly, did I "out" myself. Condemning open anti-Semitism doesn't make one a zionist any more than condemning racism makes one a defender of the Robert Mugabe regime.
Are you seriously denying that the "you are the product of pigs" line was anti-Semitic? Seriously? How about the "back to the oven" line? Just suggesting that they might want to go bake some cookies? The Montreal chant that "Jews are our dogs"...I shouldn't ahve been so quick to call that anti-Semitic, I suppose. it's likely that they simply meant that Jews were cute and loveable and man's best friend.
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:12
#107
Cueball
I am seriously pointing out that Arabs always compare people they don't like to animals. Calling someone a pig, is in-line with calling them an asshole. But I spose you don't spend any time with A-rabs so you wouldn't know that.
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:18
#108
I see you two have moved on...but...
I pointed out that MANY Jews do not support israel, including many orthodox and including many of the greatest rabbis of the last century, who opposed Zionism on religious grounds.
I was pointing out that one aprticular group of these anti-Zionist Jews is a radical fringe group that no one outside the group gives any credibility and ahve been disassociated from and condemned by most Jewish organizations, religious and secular, alike.
Do you really beleive the "orthodox rabbis" attending the rally were NOT part of a fringe group or is that jsut what you want to believe?
So... just to get it straight for me: "MANY Jews, including many orthodox and including many of the greatest rabbis of the last century" oppose Zionism but there's no way the "orthodox rabbis attending the rally were NOT part of a fringe group" that "no one outside the group gives any credibility". Why?
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:22
#109
OR...it could be that certain fringe Muslim fanatics have interpreted certain verses in the Koran to say that Jews are the "descendants of apes and pigs."
For example, in a weekly sermon in April 2002, Al-Azhar Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, the highest-ranking cleric in the Sunni Muslim world, called the Jews "the enemies of Allah, descendants of apes and pigs."[1]
In one of his sermons, Saudi sheikh Abd Al-Rahman Al-Sudayyis, imam and preacher at the Al-Haraam mosque – the most important mosque in Mecca – beseeched Allah to annihilate the Jews. He also urged the Arabs to give up peace initiatives with them because they are "the scum of the human race, the rats of the world, the violators of pacts and agreements, the murderers of the prophets, and the offspring of apes and pigs."[2]
In a sermon at the Said Al-Jandoul mosque in Al-Taif, Saudi sheikh Ba'd bin Abdallah Al-Ajameh Al-Ghamidi explained that "the qualities of the Jews" were present at all times and in all places: "The current behavior of the brothers of apes and pigs, their treachery, violation of agreements, and defiling of holy places... is connected with the deeds of their forefathers during the early period of Islam – which proves the great similarity between all the Jews living today and the Jews who lived at the dawn of Islam."[4]
In an August 2001 sermon, Sheikh Ibrahim Madhi, Palestinian Authority official and imam of the Sheikh Ijlin mosque, Gaza City's main mosque, called on the Palestinian people to forget their internal disagreements and turn all weapons against Jews: "lances must be directed at the Jews, the enemies of Allah, the nation accursed in Allah's book. Allah described [them] as apes and pigs, calf-worshipers, idol-worshippers..."[5]
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:30
#110
So... just to get it straight for me: "MANY Jews, including many orthodox and including many of the greatest rabbis of the last century" oppose Zionism but there's no way the "orthodox rabbis attending the rally were NOT part of a fringe group" that "no one outside the group gives any credibility". Why?
The leader of Satmar (largest hasidic group on earth and vehemently anti-Zionist) for example, Rabbi Teitelbaum, zt'l, has spoken on the difference between being 'anti-Israel' as a theological tenet of Judaism and siding with people they consider enemies of the Jewish people. Satmar's rabbinic leadership has said that Satmar may only protest Israel at rallies organzied by Jews and consisting only of "Jewish" criticism. They take absolutely no side in Israeli politics. They refuse to vote or accept government funding for any of their activities.
Rabbi Eliashiv and Rabbi Shteinman, the two msot prominent ultra-Orthodox rabbis in Israel have urged their supporters to pray for victory for the IDF despite their own opposition to zionism.
Again, if you can find me a quote from any orthodox rabbi in which he indicated attending such a rally or encouraging other Jews to, I'm more than happy to admit I'm wrong and correct the record.
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:33
#111
See. There you go, comparing people to animals is par for the course.
It's quite interesting really, the fall of the Lubavitch line into the pit of Zionist defeatism.
A) No. Not comparing "people" to "animals". Specifically comparing JEWS to PIGS and APES. And using Islam to justify it.
B) There are many things to admire about Lubavitch today but they have been largely rudderless since the Rebbe died and split into different factions.
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:35
#112
Cueball
See. There you go, comparing people to animals is par for the course.
It's quite interesting really, the fall of the Lubavitch line into the pit of Zionist defeatism.
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:40
#113
Cueball
What did that guy who threw the shoe a Bush call him? Oh yeah, "a Dog". Is that anti-Baptist racism?
BTW, none of your reference links go to anything. In future when you are crusing MEMRI lane in search of specific quotes from individual Arabs, so that you can indemnify all Arabs, so that you can justify massacring any of them who object to being massacred, could you at least link to the site so that we know what you are up to?
Or was that Massada 2000?
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:42
#114
how can the majority presumably anti-racist protesters at these rallies prevent what happened in Calgary where the Aryan Guard was part of protest. Not very helpfu when trying say these are not anti- semetic or anti-jewish protests.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Aryan+Guard+Gaza+protest/1168132/story...
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:43
#115
Cueball
Dunno? Shoot them? Beat them up? hmmm... any ideas?
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:43
#116
Nobody is justifying massacring anyone. It was pointing out that there is a long history within radical Islam of suggesting that Jews are the "product" or "descendents" of pigs and apes and that it was clear that the person yelling it at the rally was doing so based on that. Do you disagree? Do you think calling them "product of apes" was merely a reference to Darwinian evolution theory and that he meant all homo sapiens, and not Jews, specifically?
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:45
#117
Speaking of the "the Rebbe" aka Rabbi Menachem Schneerson:
Flyers order 'hate group' out of Whistler -
http://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/pique/index.php?cat=C_News&content=Hate...
Despite the efforts made by spokesmen of Whistler's Jewish communities to distance themselves from Lubavitchers, according to their own webpage, Chabad Lubavitch has been hosting Chaunakah celebrations and erecting giant menorahs in Whistler public spaces for the past twenty-six years.
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:48
#118
Cueball
Nobody is justifying massacring anyone.
Then why are you sourcing an known Israeli intelligence propaganda outfit in order to make your arguement? Guess I'll have to inoculate the site against MEMRI viral propganda:
The reason for Memri's air of secrecy becomes clearer when we look at the people behind it. The co-founder and president of Memri, and the registered owner of its website, is an Israeli called Yigal Carmon.Mr - or rather, Colonel - Carmon spent 22 years in Israeli military intelligence and later served as counter-terrorism adviser to two Israeli prime ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin.
Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three - including Col Carmon - are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence.
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:50
#119
Are you suggesting the quotes were made up or the translations inaccurate? Are you denying that there has been a common refrain amongst certain radicals to say that Jews are descendents or apes and pigs? If not, then what's your point?
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:53
#120
Speaking of the "the Rebbe" aka Rabbi Menachem Schneerson:
Flyers order 'hate group' out of Whistler -
http://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/pique/index.php?cat=C_News&content=Hate...
Despite the efforts made by spokesmen of Whistler's Jewish communities to distance themselves from Lubavitchers, according to their own webpage, Chabad Lubavitch has been hosting Chaunakah celebrations and erecting giant menorahs in Whistler public spaces for the past twenty-six years.
That site requires registration, Sephardi so I haven't read it (get enough spam already). Are tehy calling Lubavitch a hate group? What is teh big objection to lighting a menorah in public? The local Lubavtich rabbi and his wife in my community are great people who mean very well.
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:57
#121
SCC: Agree with you completely, Tom. My point is that there needs to be a clear rebuke of this fringe in the strongest possible terms.
Everyone rebukes this fringe. In fact, people were asked to remove certain offensive signs. I know, I saw it. A rally for the freedom of a country and its people now in their 40th year of military subjugation doesn't want these people or their signs because they change the subject. Like what's happening on this board right now.
As for Hizbolla and Hamas flags, well these are legitimate parties that represent a constituency. No matter what they say, let us look the real fact that Hamas has voted in favour of the overwhelming international consensus which defacto recognizes two independent states along the 1967 border. Israel has voted against this consenus and against international law. Israel occupies Palestine. Palestine, Fatah or Hamas do not and can't take over or occupy Israel. That's a joke.
Seriously, don't you think this discussion on a few crackpots has more to do with changing the subject? Who cares what they say? I repeat the simple reality that every Arab and Muslim country, the Palestinian Authority under Fatah or Hamas accepts the International consensus (UN res. 242) that defacto provides 2 countries along the 67 border. Israel doesn't. Israel in fact, not in theory, not in words, not in charters, but in reality occupies and/or subjugates 4 million human beings. Not Palestine, not Hamas, not Hizbollah. In fact, Hamas has already recognized Israel by its UN vote in favour of 242. Israel doesn't recognize Palestine. You see, were turning reality on its head here with what Hamas said or the Hamas flags and the Hizbollah flags.
Again, people at the rallies are merely supporting international humanitarian law. It is better to ignore the crazies, they pose no threat and are trying to bring attention to themselves. It is better that the rally concentrate on the real issue of freedom for 4 million people and their country.
Wouldn't you think?
Tue, 2009-01-13 12:59
#122
Cueball
Are you suggesting the quotes were made up or the translations inaccurate? Are you denying that there has been a common refrain amongst certain radicals to say that Jews are descendents or apes and pigs? If not, then what's your point?
I am impugning your source. Yes. I am also impugning its motivations. I am also impugning yours.
Tue, 2009-01-13 13:50
#123
Tarkovsky: how can the majority presumably anti-racist protesters at these rallies prevent what happened in Calgary where the Aryan Guard was part of protest.
I honestly, think the best strategy is to simply ask them politely to leave and that their signs and slogans aren't welcome here. And if they don't, ignore them. These tiny groups are trying to bring attention to themselves and sabotage the rally. There are more immediate concerns, namely freedom for 4 million human being so that these people can get on with their collective lives, free of foreign military subordination. But for those who really want to be helpful, I would suggest approaching them seperately and trying to have them get some help. Most of them are kids in dire need of counseling, the only threat they pose is to themselves. I think our multicultral secular open society is far removed from being attracted to them...so we shouldn't take these "flat earth society" types seriously, I haven't seen any statistic of their growing numbers. This is why they want to use any opportunity to get attention, so smacking them in the face which is not only assault would give them unwarranted attention.
But enough on that , there are real serious immediate concerns to pay any attention to tinly groups of wackos.
A nation is dying before our eyes, its survival depends much on what we can do. Time and organization is of the essence. Opponents of a free Palestine have no arguments as such they grasp on straws. We don't have to deal with them. Let us focus all our energies on the single issue that merits debate, namely freedom for Palestine and its 4 million people.
Tue, 2009-01-13 14:00
#124
Cueball
That is what they did, apparently:
Abuid said organizers were aware the neo-Nazi group was present and they told the group they were not welcome."We addressed them at the beginning of the rally and we directly told them we didn't want them to join us," said Abuid.
"But in these demonstrations you can control the crowd but you can't control the emotions . . . you can't deny people's right to walk."
I would ask that they be removed by the police. The police are quite likely to do this if you explain that it might be an improper provocation to some counter-demonstrators. If the police refuse, or do not believe that they can assist in doing this legally, there may be other ways of indicating that they are not with the group.
Hard call, especially for inexperienced demonstration organizers.
Tue, 2009-01-13 14:10
#125
Seriously, don't you think this discussion on a few crackpots has more to do with changing the subject?
As in SCC asks someone if they would feel safe at one of these rallies if they were wearing a yarmulke [ie, looking obvioulsy Jewish].
So someone posts a picture of obviously Jewish folks at one of the rallies.
That question answered, you change the subject again: "oh, those people are crackpots."
Suppose we agree they are. Wouldn't you say that it sure looks like in the points you pick to make, that there is a pattern?
Tue, 2009-01-13 14:15
#126
Here is the whole text of the article from the current Pique. It does not reproduce the whole text of the flyer or say that it specifies who the "hate group" in question might be. It certainly implies, given that Schneerson is the "Lubavitcher Rabbi" and all, that the group is Chabad Lubavitch
http://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/pique/index.php?cat=C_News&content=Hate...
Flyers order 'hate group' out of Whistler
By Jesse Ferreras
Anonymous flyers left in both Pique and Whistler Question newsstands Dec. 31 are demanding that a “hate group” be forced out of Whistler.
The flyers are adorned with the headline “HATE GROUP OUT OF WHISTLER NOW” and carry a quote from Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, the deceased leader of Chabad-Lubavitch, a Hasidic Jewish organization that began in the 18th century. Schneerson died in 1994.
Schneerson’s quote is from an article in the March 2000 issue of the Washington Report of Middle East Affairs. The quote, from a book review by Lincoln Review editor Allan Brownfeld, reads as follows:
“The difference between a Jewish and a non-Jewish person stems from the common expression: ‘Let us differentiate.’ Thus, we do not have a case of profound change in which a person is merely on a superior level. Rather, we have case of ‘let us differentiate’ between totally different species. This is what needs to be said about the body: the body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of (members) of all nations of the world… A non-Jew’s entire reality is only vanity. The entire creation (of a non-Jew) exists only for the sake of the Jews.”
The flyers give no indication of who printed them or who to contact about them. The flyers also don’t specify which organizations they’re accusing of being a “hate group.”
For Rabbi Chaim Shapiro of Whistler’s Sinai Centre, an organization that promotes Jewish culture in Whistler, it was a disturbing statement.
“My reaction to this is one of sadness and disappointment that even Whistler is a target for this sort of thinly-veiled hate campaign,” he said in a statement over e-mail.
“While I’m hesitant to dignify this attack with a response, I will say that the views attributed to the Jewish community in this flyer are inconsistent with what I learned in the Jewish seminary and in no way reflect the views I’ve heard from the Jewish people I’ve met in Whistler or anywhere else for that matter.”
Lubavitch B.C. is a branch of the Chabad Lubavitch organization. Overseen by six rabbis and working out of an office in Vancouver, it has a synagogue, Shabbat services and opportunities for Jewish education. Based in New York, Chabad Lubavitch has branches in every continent throughout the world.
Shapiro stressed that the Sinai Centre is not part of the Lubavitch organization, but he was nevertheless distressed by the flyers.
“I have no hesitation in condemning the contents of this flyer and the transparently divisive motivations of those who are distributing it,” he said in his statement.
Patrick Harroch, president of Whistler’s Sh’ar Harim congregation, called the flyer an “ugly and cowardly” display of anti-Semitism.
“The fact that the producer of this flyer has chosen to remain anonymous, and that it relies entirely on a quote from a wholly discredited source, speaks volumes about the motivations of its author,” he said in a statement. “The divisive ideas attributed to the Jewish faith in the flyers circulating around Whistler run entirely contrary to mainstream Jewish thinking.”
Staff Sergeant Steve LeClair with the Whistler RCMP said police hadn’t heard about the flyers until Pique called them. Pique sent him the flyer’s text over e-mail and he responded that it had been forwarded to the appropriate investigating authority.
Tue, 2009-01-13 14:17
#127
Frustrated Mess
It was pointing out that there is a long history within radical Islam of suggesting that Jews are the "product" or "descendents" of pigs and apes and that it was clear that the person yelling it at the rally was doing so based on that.
Why not also point out the same with regard to radical Judaism and slurs aimed at Islam? Or is that different?
And yes, quoting from Memri is to portray the character of Arabs and Islam is like quoting from a known anti-semitic site to portray the character of Jews.
Tue, 2009-01-13 14:22
#128
And as to your question as to what is wrong with erecting menorahs in public places, I say nothing but at the same time there have been many stories in the media about the removal of Christmas trees from public places, the ban against saying Merry Christmas in workplaces etc. In the village of Pemberton last Christmas the issue of a Nativity scene being dismantled and taken away from outside of an elementary school was very well covered by local papers.
Tue, 2009-01-13 14:24
#129
Frustrated Mess
“While I’m hesitant to dignify this attack with a response, I will say that the views attributed to the Jewish community in this flyer are inconsistent with what I learned in the Jewish seminary and in no way reflect the views I’ve heard from the Jewish people I’ve met in Whistler or anywhere else for that matter.”
See, I can appreciate that. And yet Memri and so many of Israel's apologists have no issue with trying to smear all of Islam and all Arabs with the hateful comments they can attribute, often out of context, to whatever Arab or Muslim opens his mouth.
Patrick Harroch, president of Whistler’s Sh’ar Harim congregation, called the flyer an “ugly and cowardly” display of anti-Semitism.
Ugly and cowardly is an apt description of Memri and its purpose.
Tue, 2009-01-13 15:10
#130
Please forward:
Three talks by Jeff Halper in Montreal - One censored
Jeff Halper is a Jewish-Israeli Nobel Peace Prize nominee who is scheduled to give three presentations this week. The second talk for the Jewish community which was to take place at the Gelber Conference Centre was suddenly banned by the Federation Combined Jewish Appeal today. This censorship by the FCJA is but one more example of how Israel -- and now those who support its current policies -- are trying to control all the information about the effects of its war on the Palestinian people. Now they are censoring a public talk by a respected Jewish anti-war activist. This reflects the threat of Jewish anti-war activists when Israel demands total information control during its war on the Palestinian people.
This talk has just been relocated to the Unitarian Church,
5035 boulevard de Maisonneuve Ouest, next to the Vendome Metro. (See details below).
Find out what they don't want you to hear.
Organized by
Voix juives indépendantes Montréal / Independent Jewish Voices Montreal, email: ijvm_vijm @ yahoo.ca
1) RENÉ CASSIN and GAZA:
A Judaism of Human Rights
Lecture by Israeli peace activist Jeff Halper of ICAHD and
introduction by Montreal civil rights & human rights lawyer Julius
Grey.
Wednesday, January 14, 6:30 pm,
McGill University, Leacock Building,
***********************************************************************************
On the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration
of Human Rights, especially in light of the war and humanitarian
crisis in Gaza, it is important to discuss Nobel Peace Prize laureate
René Cassin. As one of the principal drafters and advocates of the
declaration, his legacy as a Jewish anti-war and human rights jurist
is far-reaching. How would Cassin react to the on-going Israeli
occupation and war with Gaza?
American born, Jeff Halper immigrated to Israel after attending
rabbinical school. Halper co-founded the Israeli Committee Against
House Demolitions in 1997 and together with the Palestinian
intellectual and activist Ghassan Andoni was nominated for the 2006
Nobel Peace Prize. Halper is an author on the Israeli-Palestinian
conflict and his focus is on non-violent strategies to solve the
Israel-Palestine conflict.
Julius Grey is one of Canada's leading civil liberties and human
rights lawyers. As a former law professor at McGill and private
practitioner, he is a well-known advocate for minority communities.
This event is co-sponsored by Amnesty International Quebec,
Young Jews for Social Justice
(a QPIRG McGill Working Group) and
the Charter of Rights and Responsibilities-Que.-Can. Chapter.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
2) Peace in Israel? Peace with Gaza? Yes We Can!
Presentation by Jeff Halper, noted Israeli peace activist
Thursday, January 15, 7:30 p.m.
*** Gelber Conference Centre NOTE Talk CENSORED by the Federation Canadian Jewish Appeal from the Gelber Centre.
New location!!!
Unitarian Church Of Montréal
5035 boulevard de Maisonneuve Ouest
Montréal
Donation $5 at the door.
Israeli peace activist Jeff Halper presents a talk specifically for a Jewish audience. Using maps and visual aids, Halper will walk us through the evolving political situation in Israel and in Gaza. He will explain the various forces and opinions in Israel that strive for an end to the cycle of violence and insecurity. His goal is to answer these questions: What options are there for resolving the conflict? What can be done now in Israel and in North American Jewish communities? Where do we go from here?
American born, Jeff Halper immigrated to Israel after attending rabbinical school. He was nominated by the American Friends Service Committee for the 2006 Nobel Peace Prize, together with the Palestinian intellectual and activist Ghassan Andoni. Halper is the author of two published books on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and is a frequent writer and sought-after speaker about Israeli politics and culture. His focus is on non-violent strategies to solve the Israel-Palestine conflict.
This event is co-sponsored by
the Charter of Rights and Responsibilities- Que-Can. Chapter
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
3) Opposing the Canada-Israel Military and Security Agreements
Saturday, Jan 17, 2pm
UQAM, Pavillion J.A. DeSève,
Rm DS-R 510
Presentation with Jeff Halper, Israeli Nobel Peace Prize nominee
Introduction by Prof. Rachad Antonius (UQAM)
(Simultaneous French/English translation)
$5 suggested donation
Without fanfare, Canada and Israel have recently signed military and security agreements. Israel has a burgeoning military and security export industry, with products tested on Palestinians.
This unprecedented arrangement unifies our countries with significant consequences. Military parts for fighter jets attacking Gaza now are made in Canada. Canada wants to buy Israeli weapons for its war in Afghanistan. Israel and Canada will share information about Arab, Muslim and pro-Palestinian 'undesirables'. Will you or Israel determine Canada's foreign policy and immigration policies? Find out to take a stand.
Co-sponsored by: Alternatives, Tadamon!, CUPE-Ontario, CAW, AEESU-UQAM, PAJU, Can. Arab Federation, la Charte des responsibilitiés humaines-Qc-Can, Coalition pour la justice en Palestine-UQAM.
-------------------------------------
Organized by: Independent Jewish Voices Montreal
Information: ivjm_vjim@ yahoo.ca
Independent Jewish Voices is a coalition of Canadian Jews from diverse backgrounds. Some of are Zionists, some non-Zionists, some anti-Zionists, some are Israeli and some are former IDF soldiers. Among the members are observant orthodox Jews and secular humanist Jews joined together in the belief that the broad spectrum of opinion among the Jewish population of this country is not reflected by the existing institutions and organizations.
Independent Jewish Voices further believes that individuals and groups within our community should feel free to express their views on any issue of public concern -- including Israel and the Middle East -- without fear of censorship, exclusion, labeling or accusations of disloyalty.
Independent Jewish Voices is a national organization in Canada, England and Australia
______________________________________________________________________
Voix juives indépendantes Montréal / Independent Jewish Voices Montreal
[email protected]
Tue, 2009-01-13 16:06
#131
You've heard of "Talking to Americans"? This is "Talking to Israeli Supporters" - New York edition.
I certainly hope that all the people wringing their hands over the one or two people who were videotaped saying anti-semitic things at pro-Palestinian rallies will step forth now and condemn these incredibly racist things that are being said openly and with the full support of a large number of people looking on, listening in, and demonstrating at the rally. The entire sentiment of this rally was to "kick their asses" and "wipe them out". The majority of the signs were racist and Islamophobic (as opposed to pro-Palestinian rallies, where you hardly ever see an anti-semitic sign or hear anti-semitic rhetoric) and the speeches were also Islamophobic, as opposed to pro-Palestinian rallies where the speeches are not anti-semitic, and displays of anti-semitism are isolated and opposed by other participants (many of whom are Jewish).
Tue, 2009-01-13 16:07
#132
Frustrated Mess
Seven years ago, another American president took the sympathy of the world and transformed it into hatred. Just two months ago, Barack Obama won it back on the backs of ordinary Americans. Today he stands on the brink of repeating the biggest mistake of his predecessor. As a man with Barack Obama's upbringing, his global reach, his demonstrated intelligence and humanity, and his oft-repeated commitment to justice for all, that will be unforgivable. We do not expect great vision from fools, but we demand it of our heroes.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/01/12-8
Tue, 2009-01-13 16:10
#133
Oh, I didn't notice that this thread was at 131 posts when I posted! Please start a new one.
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