OTTAWA — New Democrats have produced a series of scathing radio ads lambasting the Liberals for propping up Stephen Harper's minority Conservative government.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jsvBway8JiRLDQG2xa2REc4Cq80A
Are Canadians currently too pre-occupied with their own economic circumstances and tuned out of politics altogether or will these ads resonate and be effective? Thoughts?
The New Democratic Opposition. I like that.
These ads will prove to be a waste of time. Save the money for the inevitable election in 2010.
And we are supposed to believe they would have worked together cooperatively in a coalition, in our best interests?
There are people who still listen to radio? 
They won't be a waste of time if they successfully manage to frame Ignatieff in the public's eye. That's clearly what the NDP is doing here, trying to get ahead of the spin of this. It's a decent move. There are lots of Liberals who are basically anti-Conservatives. They won't be happy about what's happened, and these ads will help to encourage their discontent.
Yes, this is a significant betrayal of the unemployed and soon to be unemployed who Iggy said last week were his responsibility to protect and even something about jobs of the future (more Liberal Party rhetoric at this late date) before rubber-stamping Harper's budget. And people need to know about what is another Liberal Party betrayal right now not whenever the Liberals think theyre ready for another election.
People have gone back to sleep.
I don't believe the NDP has the resources or repetitive capacity to frame an image of Ignatieff. THe LPC are very busy framing that image and the CPC will likely get busy creating an Image of Iggy. The CPC have the money, time and resources to form an image of the Opposition Leader.
Liberals I speak with are very happy with Iggy and figure they can regain many seats from the NDP and take back seats lost to the CPC by grabbing NDP swing voters.
The NDP better have a war chest built, because when the LPC believe they can take on an Election Campaign, they will come back like its 1993.
Canada Election results 2008: Lowest support for a federal Liberal Party in an ice age
How low can the Liberals go? Keep pluggin' away, Jack! 
I think the ads have already achieved their objective. They clearly distinguish the NDP position from the Liberal Party and frame Mr. Ignatieff as the wimpy heir to the spineless Liberal opposition tradition. They need not run very long.
I want to see some nuance - or at last some back channel messaging - in the message box around the budget. The fact is that the coalition was a) Jack's creation, and b) the only reason we got the government to back off from their grotesquely incompetent fiscal update and get any kind of stimulus going. This speaks to leadership, and gets lost in the straight-ahead budget bashing.
I also think that the Liberals have made a mistake with their amendment; unless they suddenly find themselves a spine they have now made displaying their support for the Harper government a regularly scheduled event. I have a hard time seeing that as smart.
The ads probably don't have to actually "run" at all. It will suffice to get free media from news reports about them and for them to circulate through the blogosphere. There are many examples of ads that were highly effective that parties never actually paid any money to run!
I like the ads becasue they show Jack and the team were prepared for the NDP Liberal coaliton to come to power but had Plan B ,if as expected the Liberals sold out. and he Liberal Consrvative coaltion solidifies . Until the next election all parties will hammer the Liberals, the Tories y putting them to the test to vote for his government on confidence vote after confedence vote, w hile the effective oppostion parties vote non confidence tiem after time. By the time the next election occurs the Liberals willl prrbably have close to 100 times in a rowy have voted confidence in the Harper governemnt.. So the ads are just the latest slavo in the ongoing struggle for leadership of the "left" that has been waged since the Martin minority.
The Liberal Party is in the "left"? I must have blinked...
From wikipedia:
The Great Coalition refers to the grand coalition of political parties that formed in the Province of Canada in 1864. The previous collapse after only a few months of a coalition government formed by Étienne-Paschal Taché and Conservative John A. Macdonald (the sixth government in six years) had demonstrated that continued governance of Canada East and Canada West under the 1840 Act of Union had become untenable. In order to reform the political system, a coalition was formed between the Clear Grits under George Brown, the Parti bleu under George-Étienne Cartier, and the Liberal-Conservatives under John A. Macdonald. The formation of this coalition on 22 June 1864 under Étienne-Paschal Taché and John A. Macdonald as the Province of Canada led directly to Canadian Confederation in 1867, and the coalition persisted as the government of the Province of Canada until the moment of Confederation.
I like the ads. It looks like the NDP took a page from the Conservative attact ads regarding Dion. "Stephane Dion - not a leader" worked wonders to undermine Dion and, hopefully, these ads will undermine Ignatieff.
Great move by the NDP!! 
I'm not sure if this is the greatest move. The problem is the average Canadian is tuned out from what occurred in the budget process and the NDP is trying to set up a new paradigm where the public comes to dismiss the Liberals as much as the core NDP voter. In an environment where the public either dismisses everything the Liberals say (lack of credibility) or somewhat pities them in their abject weakness, the Liberal party is in deep trouble.
So far, all the justifications that the party is going to re-tool, re-build, re-vise, re-energise ring hollow when the Liberals failed to do the very thing they are supposedly re-building to do: seize power. For a party whose whole raison d'être is seizing power and "winning", they've blown it. I all I can hear whistling in the trees these days is Prime Minister Harper, Prime Minister Harper, Prime Minister Harper, etc.
ETA: I like the "Change" ad the best.
I like the ads becasue they show Jack and the team were prepared for the NDP Liberal coaliton to come to power but had Plan B ,if as expected the Liberals sold out. and he Liberal Consrvative coaltion solidifies.
Funny, that's exactly why [url="http://www.warrenkinsella.com/index.php?entry=entry090129-131621"]Warren Kinsella[/url] doesn't like them.
Yeah I don't love the ads, maybe its the tone but I think the meme of a Tory-Liberal coalition budget is worth reinforcing.
I think that Layton and his caucus (by critic position) should be ready to issue statements every time there is news of job losses and layoffs and bankruptcies. Keep driving home the fact that two incompetent politicians (Harper and Ignatieff) put their own political ambitions ahead of the economic needs of this country.
The ads probably don't have to actually "run" at all. It will suffice to get free media from news reports about them and for them to circulate through the blogosphere. There are many examples of ads that were highly effective that parties never actually paid any money to run!
I hadn't heard these ads until I caught a discussion about them on "The John Downs Show" on am640.com while waiting for the Leafs' broadcast to start. (Why, oh why, must this gang of troglodytes be the "Home of the Leafs"?)
The show's host slammed the ads, the NDP, Jack Layton, as well as the female announcer on the ads, saying she sounded like a date from hell. Then he opened the phone lines...
Granted, the general audience of a Corus radio station would have been big fans of Mussolini, but without exception the people who phoned in said that Jack Layton was despicable, a back-stabber, gutless, off-the-mark, delusional, playing politics when the country needs stability, and variations of a guy with a pornstar moustache.
I don't know if this is the kind of free publicity Stockholm has in mind.
Two points:
1. Its common knowledge that people who listen to and call "talk radio" tend to be almost uniformly old white men who are rightwing fanatics wearing tinfoil hats.For reasons that are not well understood - it is a medium that sees to attract the lunatic fringe right.
2. I really don't care what people say they think of the ads or what they think of Layton. What matters is that the underlying message inh the ads sink in. Back when the Tories ran their scurrilous ads making personal attacks on Stephane Dion two years ago - EVERYONE went on and on ad nauseum about how mean the Tories were to "go negative" and how shocked and appalled they were that Harper would do this etc... an then 10 minutes later, the same people would be parroting the central message of the ads which was that Dion was a weak leader etc...
[I hadn't heard these ads until I caught a discussion about them on "The John Downs Show" on am640.com while waiting for the Leafs' broadcast to start. (Why, oh why, must this gang of troglodytes be the "Home of the Leafs"?)
The show's host slammed the ads, the NDP, Jack Layton, as well as the female announcer on the ads, saying she sounded like a date from hell. Then he opened the phone lines...
Granted, the general audience of a Corus radio station would have been big fans of Mussolini, but without exception the people who phoned in said that Jack Layton was despicable, a back-stabber, gutless, off-the-mark, delusional, playing politics when the country needs stability, and variations of a guy with a pornstar moustache.
I don't know if this is the kind of free publicity Stockholm has in mind.
I don't know either, but it is great news. The fact that a Leafs show on redneck radio is talking about the ads means they have generated buzz. I can't imagine that any of the people you heard came to their opinions because of the ads. They have always been mouthbreathers. I mean, they're Leafs fans for crying out loud. How smart could they be?
The release has been targeted in ridings where the demographics and polling suggest that the hit will take, so the yammer on John Downs is no kind of bad. If the idiots are frothing, cheer them on. Tell them how much Jack loves the Habs.
I think it's great. Good for Layton. He gave Liberals the benefit of the doubt and Ignasty climbed into bed with the Conjobs. Clearly Ignasty's interests are not the interests of Canadians but his own opportunistic political hide. This sort of thing could get me voting NDP again.
Ok, my favourite quote of the budget yap is this bit from a disillusioned Conservative in the Globe and Mail:
"Gerry Nicholls, a former colleague of Mr. Harper's at the right-wing National Citizens' Coalition, said he thinks the Prime Minister has lost his way.
“The Conservative party is conservative in name only. It makes me yearn for the days when we had a relatively fiscally conservative leader like Jean Chrétien,” Mr. Nicholls said, referring to the former Liberal prime minister's victory in slaying the deficit in the mid-1990s and paying down federal debt."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090129.wtories30/CommentStory/politics/home
Oops, wrong thread. Mea culpa.
I have actually met Gerry Nicholls. I find his politics abhorrent, but he is very principled and very pleasant in person. He's willing to criticize the Conservative Party when he thinks they are abandoning conservative principles. He got dumped as head of the National Citizens Coalition because he refused to just be a cheerleader for Harper. I have a lot of time for him.
The fact that a Leafs show on redneck radio is talking about the ads means they have generated buzz.
You have your "facts" mixed up. This wasn't a Leafs show, but Leafs shows are scattered throughout this station's schedule, which means after I listen to "Leafs Lunch" I'm exposed to the horrible Mike Stafford (which I usually shut off right away) until the Bill Waters hockey show starts.
There's some really crazy stuff after "Leafs Talk," the show that follows game broadcasts.
At least I haven't heard "Adler On Line" in a while. Maybe the transmitter in his cave broke down.
For reasons that are not well understood - it is a medium that sees to attract the lunatic fringe right.
If you've heard who hosts these programmes, you would have no trouble understanding the audience they attract.
The show's host slammed the ads, the NDP, Jack Layton, as well as the female announcer on the ads, saying she sounded like a date from hell. Then he opened the phone lines...
Granted, the general audience of a Corus radio station would have been big fans of Mussolini, but without exception the people who phoned in said that Jack Layton was despicable, a back-stabber, gutless, off-the-mark, delusional, playing politics when the country needs stability, and variations of a guy with a pornstar moustache.
These are just Harper supporters calling in to protect the junior member of the coalition (the Libs). The same people who torched Nathan Cullen's sign on cue.
You have your "facts" mixed up. This wasn't a Leafs show, but Leafs shows are scattered throughout this station's schedule, which means after I listen to "Leafs Lunch" I'm exposed to the horrible Mike Stafford (which I usually shut off right away) until the Bill Waters hockey show starts.
I can imagine it's hard. If it's getting you down, I've got a couple of old Habs jersies around here somewhere I can send your way. Much nicer ambience goes with them.
Anyway, Leaf's show or not, the ads are being talked about in nooks and crannies where NDP buzz doesn't usually go. Nobody should care what the John Downs' of the world think (or whatever it is they do where most people think) but the fact that he feels the need to discuss it is interesting.
This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. People and the media are perceiving it as Layton being thin skinned.
Of course the party faithful love it because they are the party faithful and they will vote for the NDP no matter what. The problem is the other 85% of Canadians who don't.
With Premiers across the country saying that they have reservations about the budget BUT are very thankful for the spending, the NDP look like idiots.
Is it 4:20 yet?
I think that Layton and his caucus (by critic position) should be ready to issue statements every time there is news of job losses and layoffs and bankruptcies. Keep driving home the fact that two incompetent politicians (Harper and Ignatieff) put their own political ambitions ahead of the economic needs of this country.
Absolutely!
And the NDP -and every Canadian citizen with 2 oz of grey matter- need to be hounding the Libs and the Cons and the media at every turn about the fact that the poor and the vast majority of the unemployed have no place in the "recovery" plan or the budget.
The whole society will become increasingly dysfunctional, with rising crime and domestic abuse and happy-go-lucky cops-on-the-loose having a field day every day tasering and shooting and beating, with street people and shut-ins freezing or starving to death or getting murdered and... why go on? We all know what this level of willful neglect leads to and it's criminal to accept the state of denial that Crown Prince Igor and King Cobra are forcing on us.
The right will say what they have to say about Layton or anyone on the left. Layton was showing a perfectly normal reaction of disappointment, anger, and sadness. At least he is capable of showing human emotion --as, by the way, is Duceppe, who also managed some pretty funny digs at Iggy--, unlike the other two rigid masks now sharing power.
The right will say what they have to say about Layton or anyone on the left. Layton was showing a perfectly normal reaction of disappointment, anger, and sadness. At least he is capable of showing human emotion --as, by the way, is Duceppe, who also managed some pretty funny digs at Iggy--, unlike the other two rigid masks now sharing power.
Layton's emotions are that of someone going through a breakup and blogging about it on Facebook. Seriously are we going to go through the seven stages until Jack gets to acceptance.
Move on already.
Is it 4:20 yet?
And the NDP -and every Canadian citizen with 2 oz of grey matter- need to be hounding the Libs and the Cons and the media at every turn about the fact that the poor and the vast majority of the unemployed have no place in the "recovery" plan or the budget.
This was, strangely enough, one of the criticisms that the Corus radio host made of Jack Layton; that instead of speaking up for "poor people," Layton instead indulged in an attack ad aimed at Ignatieff. Mind you, the host's criticisms were mired in cheap shots of his own, especially his repeated playing of the ad interspersed with his misogynist comments about the voice of the woman who read the ad.
Layton's emotions are that of someone going through a breakup and blogging about it on Facebook. Seriously are we going to go through the seven stages until Jack gets to acceptance.
If the ads and their quick, effective roll out say anything about Jack's state of mind it is that he read Mr. Ignatieff's intentions many days ago and wasted no time moping.
The Globe story on the ads has over 800 comments at the moment. The rage from the Conservatives is really quite beautiful, in a primal, carnivorous sort of way. Regardless, people are talking - a lot.
These ads are apparently golden.
People wailed about the Conservative ads attacking Dion. They were deplorable, gutter politics.
They worked.
The NDP doesn't have the same bully pulpit as the Cons do, and they don't have the friendly media voices willing to parrot their talking points. But if people are talking about NDP ads outside of an election cycle, that's net positive for the NDP.
The very fact that the ads have already prompted Liberal trolls to join babble suggests they are already being effective. GO JACK!
Good Lord the NDP is taking media strategy from Paris Hilton. Hate to break it to everybody here but there IS such a thing called bad press.
Oh yes people are talking about the NDP all right. Words such as whiney, petulant and immature are brought up with regularity. But hey as long as they get your name right in the papers.
What's that I hear? Oh that's Warren Kinsella laughing his ass off.
Is it 4:20 yet?
I think it was Warren Kinsella who told them to drop the carbon tax and all that doublespeak about "green" capitalism. Liberals shoulda listened to him
Warren Kinsella. Do we allow that kind of foul language here?
Anyway, I'm sure the folks over at the NDP office appreciate your concern. No doubt they'll take note.
In your compendious experience of the word on the street, has anybody mentioned the word troll?
Kudos to Layton and the NDP for their rapid fire attack on the severely weakened Liberals as it's obvious the Liberals have been caught off guard by this brilliant ad strategy. And it's just a matter of time before the big buck Cons do the same, and look what they did to Dion. Liberals are going nowhere fast, at least until Justin takes over the reigns, but that's in the future. 
Warren Kinsella. Do we allow that kind of foul language here?
Anyway, I'm sure the folks over at the NDP office appreciate your concern. No doubt they'll take note.
In your compendious experience of the word on the street, has anybody mentioned the word troll?
Pick up a paper or read them online here is a sample.
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/01/29/...
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/578810
I don't live under a bridge and I like to sun tan so no Troll I. I am a long time lurker and have been away from the internet for a little while. (The tag should give you a clue)
Having made a few whopper mistakes in my life, trust me, I can see one from a mile away. These attack adds are a super whopper.
1. It backs the NDP into a corner with regards to the Liberal party. You know the same party the NDP were willing to enter into a coalition less than 48hrs ago
2. Going negative pre writ only makes one look cranky and desperate, just look at the Tory negative coalition adds
3. my biggest criticism of the add is that it defines the NDP as an opposition party rather than a governing party in waiting.
These adds were written to preach to the choir rather than convert the infidel heathens. Waste of money and the negatives are huge. Got it Peter and Frustrated Lemming?
Is it 4:20 yet?
Sorry, Liberals. You elected (oops, not even that!) a dud as leader again. Too bad, so sad.
1. The Liberals have made their decision; they chose the terrain.
2. Going negative "pre-writ" has worked on numerous ocassions before - see Harper's ads re: Dion. And for that matter, the Tories ads against the coalition which did sow confusion in the general public and captured the issue for a lot of people.
3. Um, the point is that the NDP is the opposition; it was waiting to form government in a coalition with the Liberals which the Liberals abandoned in order to join a coalition with the Conservatives, remember?
As to "preaching to the converted": it is obviously targeted at Canadians who supported the coalition and who should be greatly disappointed that their trust in the Liberal Party has once again been abused.
What the ads do are push Iggy back into the same corner Dion was cowering in before Jack helped him realize he does have a spine. Gut check time for Iggy.
1. It backs the NDP into a corner with regards to the Liberal party. You know the same party the NDP were willing to enter into a coalition less than 48hrs ago
2. Going negative pre writ only makes one look cranky and desperate, just look at the Tory negative coalition adds
3. it defines the NDP as an opposition party rather than a governing party in waiting.
These adds were written to preach to the choir rather than convert the infidel heathens. Waste of money and the negatives are huge.
1. The NDP did not back themsleves into anything (or walk in frontwards). The Liberals walked away from the coalition, and it has been no secret that they were headed that way for quite a while. From the NDP perspective, it was good to work for the success of the coalition, but it would have been foolish not to prepare for its failure. It would have been flat out stupid to carry on as if we were still all singing from the same song sheet.
2. This is hardly a normal pre-writ period, and even if it were, staking out the NDP's turf would be no bad thing. Waiting for the Liberals to seize the initiative in speaking to disappointed coalition supporters would have been lethal. And you seem to have missed the point that the Conservative anti-coalition ads worked just fine, in spite of being flagrantly dishonest and absurdly over the top.
3. The NDP is an opposition party, at the moment. It is attempting (with some success) to present itself as the real opposition, distinguishing themselves from the pseudo-opposition of the Liberals. Since the Official Opposition is by Constitutional convention the government in waiting, it all adds up, one small step at a time.
In some sense you are correct about preaching to the choir; the ads are aimed at those who backed a coalition and are unhappy with how things landed. There are no real negatives in it from that perspective, unless you buy Kinsella's (excuse my profanity) lame (and profoundly hypocritical) charge that it looks sneaky. I'm sure he would have prefered that the NDP just shrugged and looked into the cameras slack-jawed as Mr. Ignatieff killed the coalition. Why on earth would Jack oblige him, and what ethical rule required him to believe the transparent fiction that the Liberals were planning to implement the coalition agreement?
I read the papers, thanks. I've read the outraged commentary from the usual suspects. This means nothing at all about the advisability of the strategy. It's a targeted message, and it will do what it's meant to just fine.
Jack is targeting all those borderline Liberal Party supporters who didnt vote Liberal last year and who may have been thinking there is a ray of sunshine between the Liberals and Tories due to Dion's coalition with 62 percent majority.
Jack is just reminding Canadians that Ignasty has blackened that window of opportunity for the LPC, and that the NDP is still the democratic opposition. 
Um, I don't get this "preaching to the choir" angle at all. The ads are clearly aimed at disenchanted Liberals. Are these people actually the NDP "choir"? Funny they don't vote for us then.
All the polls said the same thing, in various degrees. The majority of Liberal voters wanted the coalition. Oddly enough, they wanted the leader of the party they support to take the chance to lead the country (what a crazy world). Iggy handed that power back to the Cons without a fight, just because taking power meant sharing it with the NDP. Hey, maybe they were even right. Maybe this is the best tactic for them in the long-term, but the fact remains that the majority of their voters didn't care about hooking up with the NDP, they just wanted the Conservatives gone. These are disappointed Liberals. There's no way around it.
So, given the state of affairs the NDP could shrug its shoulders and go "what're ya gonna do" (as the BC NDP so often does rather than putting up any kind of fight), or it could do something to drive a wedge between those voters and their party. These ads are an attempt to do that, to reinforce that feeling of betrayal that many Liberal voters are experiencing right now.
I find it especially hilarious that people are dissing these ads because the media is shitting on them. Can you really not be aware that the media is going to shit on anything and everything the NDP does from now until the second coming of christ? If the NDP operated by this standard it would never make any move whatsoever (again, much like the BC party). Frankly, if the media didn't shit on these ads, then I would be inclined to oppose them, because they obviously aren't pissing off the right people.
In one of his rarer moments of honesty a few years ago, Warren Kinsella admitted on his blog that one of the biggest risks the Liberal Party faced was a resurgent NDP.
I assume that, following his advice, the Liberals rated that as a bigger risk in their quest to obtain a sole majority mandate than leaving Stephen Harper in office to attack them.
Again, I hope we go hard after both the Liberals and Conservatives on the weaknesses in EI, particularly after that disgusting interview Diane Finley gave to Norma Greenaway at Canwest, where she said the Conservatives did not want to "make it lucrative for the unemployed to stay home".
If the Liberals' amendment does not pass, which it appears unlikely to at this stage, then the Liberals will have to go thumbs-up or thumbs-down on the budget. We should be doing everything we can to make that as costly as possible for them, given how much the resulting budget is going to hurt the weakest members of our society.
Give 'em hell, Jack.
If the Liberals' amendment does not pass, which it appears unlikely to at this stage, then the Liberals will have to go thumbs-up or thumbs-down on the budget. We should be doing everything we can to make that as costly as possible for them, given how much the resulting budget is going to hurt the weakest members of our society.
I'm wrong about the Liberal amendment ... the Conservatives have said they'll be supporting it. I still stand by my original strategic comment, however ... as the Liberal amendment does not change the budget in any meaningful way.
