Wearing Costumes of Other Cultures/Races

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Star Spangled C...
Wearing Costumes of Other Cultures/Races

I've got a question that I'd be interested to hear other people's opinions on.

There's a Jewish holiday called Purim coming. I won't give all the background but on Purim you dress up in costumes, get drunk, have a grand old time, etc. Given that we have a new baby to dress up, we're especially excited, especially since I, myself, hate wearing costumes.

However, my wife has gotten this idea that she wants to dress up as an "Indian Bride" - wearing a sari, having the red dot on her forehead, etc. And this sorta strikes me as...well, inappropriate, I guess. Like maybe you shouldn't be using other people's cultural dress as a Purim or Halloween costume. I mean, I wouldn't necessarily like it if someone showed up for a Halloween party dressed as "A Jew" - wearing a fake beard, black hat, side locks, etc.

I think it's one thing to dress up as a specific PERSON of another culture or race but as a "generic ethnic guy" not so much. For example, dressing up as "Lebron James" = fine; dressing up a "A Black Man" = not really.

What do people think? Is this no big deal and I'm just being sensitive or do you think it's actually offensive to wear Indian wedding attire as a costume?

Caissa

Interesting question. My most recent Halloween costume has been as a Cardinal and i am not Roman Catholic. I thought people tended to dress as characters from the book of Esther for Purim.

 

I'm interested to se how this thread progresses.

Maysie Maysie's picture

I'm unsure of your reasons for posting this, Star Spangled. 

My question to you is what happens after this babble poll? If 5 people say "go ahead" and 3 people say "don't, it's offensive" what will you do? .

You seem to have a strong sense of how you feel about this, which differs from your wife's view. I'd say, work it out with her.

Star Spangled C...

I'm not necessarily going to "Do" anything, Maysie. I was jsut curious what people thought since I haven't quite made up my own mind about it.

I don't really feel the need to "work it out" with her. She's an intelligent adult and doesn't need me hectoring her on her sartorial choices, particularly after she just carried our baby around for 9 months, endured hours of labour, spends her days feeding and changing the little guy and hasn't gotten a good night's sleep in 3 weeks.

Caissa, maybe in more religious communities going up as people from the Book of Esther is common practice but every Purim aprty I've ever been to has tended to be people dressed as animals, superheroes, etc.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Okey dokey, thanks for clearing that up.

Michelle

It's interesting what you get when you use google.

If you google: Halloween ethnic costumes

...you get all sorts of sites that sell or rent "ethnic" dress.  (Yes, I hate that word, it's very "othering" but I figured I'd get more google hits that way.)

If you google: Halloween ethnic costumes anti-racism

...however, then the first two hits you get are from Anti-Racist Parent.com, and Racialicious, explaining why it's extremely problematic (to say the least) to wear traditional dress from other countries and cultures for Hallowe'en.   (Or Purim, in this case.)

Sineed

I volunteered at the Mariposa folk festival eighteen years ago, when it was up in Barrie.  Among other things, we had face-painting for the kiddies.  I was sitting with another volunteer near a stage when a child returned to her mum with an elaborately-painted face.  Not to be stereotypical, but these were central Ontario white people.  Anyway, looking at her daughter's painted face, the mum said, "I know!  For Hallowe'en, we can paint your face dark and put your hair in braids, and you can go as a pickaninny!!"

My friend actually spewed his beer.

So where I'm going with this is, besides the cultural appropriation, etc, it makes the people who do it look like hicks.  

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

I once went to a wedding dressed as a Scotsman with kilt and the whole outfit. It was optional dress, suggested by the wedding organizers.

Should I feel guilty for this? 

Unionist

M. Spector wrote:

I once went to a wedding dressed as a Scotsman with kilt and the whole outfit.

When you say "the whole outfit" - mind if I ask what you wore under the kilt?

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

A good Scotsman never tells. Nor do I.  Wink

basmati

I think this question is legitimately interesting. I was thinking about something very similar when the Borat film came out, and while watching Russell Peters doing impersonations in his act.

In both of those instances something didn't feel right about the whole thing but it was awfully hard to pin down exactly what that was.

After discussions I received a really good insight from a friend. The answer has a lot to do with with relations of power and who has the ability to take on the role of another race, or ethnicity or whatnot. Sasha B Cohen And Russell Peters dress up and take these roles from definite positions of power. They make fun of things in other cultures that seem hilarious from Eurocentric viewpoints. Both of these guys are comfortable in "Western" societies (they're native English speakers, and so forth) while it is rarely true of the people they make fun of by dressing up and/or speaking in their accents.

I get my answer about whether what they do is appropriate or not by asking a question, could people from the cultures/races they impersonate as effectively impersonate the general cultural stereotypes of S.B. Cohen or R Peters?

 

 

Naci_Sey Naci_Sey's picture

Have wondered about the same thing myself. 

Am one-quarter East Indian but, unfortunately, have none of the colouring to show for it. Have felt the urge to wear a sari on occasion but never done so for the reasons stated by SSC. Have feared I'd offend someone whose East Indian background is substantially more than mine.

I wasn't brought up in an East Indian household and, regrettably, had no contact with my father or his East Indian mother. I think it's that which makes me sometimes pine to wear clothing that represents the missing part of me.

Slumberjack

M. Spector wrote:
A good Scotsman never tells....  Wink

They do when challenged by curiosity seekers.

Michelle

M. Spector wrote:

I once went to a wedding dressed as a Scotsman with kilt and the whole outfit. It was optional dress, suggested by the wedding organizers.

Should I feel guilty for this?

No, why would you? You were attending a function in which the hosts (who I assume are Scottish or of Scottish background) suggested that their guests wear traditional dress to celebrate. I know a non-Sikh couple who attended a traditional Sikh wedding, and wore traditional clothing to that too, since that is what the couple wanted.

Wearing traditional dress to an event where people are celebrating something in a traditional manner is not the same thing as "dressing up as a X" for Hallowe'en. In one case, you are celebrating with people in a culturally-appropriate way. In the other case, you are turning traditional dress into a frivolous stereotype.

Pride for Red D...

No it's not right, it's cultural appropriation, and reinforcesd racist stereotypes.

al-Qa'bong

Glad to hear it; you've given me another reason not to wear neckties.  I wouldn't want to mock WASP culture.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Sure is a tricky question.  Minorities have had their culture stolen for profit plenty of times.  But I also like to stand in solidarity.

 

Context is key.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

al-Qa'bong wrote:
Glad to hear it; you've given me another reason not to wear neckties.  I wouldn't want to mock WASP culture.

And I'm going to have to stop wearing my Greek fisherman's hat, playing Go and Mah-Jongg, and taking tango lessons.

al-Qa'bong

Holey Moley; M. Spector is Peter C. Newman!

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

Russell Peters is called a sellout by a lot of people including me and so is another comedian called Carlos Mencia. An explanation of it is me plus a lot of ppl I know yo it feels like all he really doing is pandering to white ppl you know makin them laugh and really just reaffirming stereotypes in their head while adding new ones. Carlos mencia does it alot too but russell peters esp.Like you ain't ever gotten that feeling too? that what a sellout is dancing on the stage for a crowd aka a house nigga just playin a show when ppl need someone to make fun of or makefun of others in a modern sense n make racism more socially acceptable and comfortable there u go russel peters

 

On a real ting I would get pissed seeing someone white walking around in a sari proly cuz of the feeling that yo that shit is ours. not even gonna lie no point in me lieing.

zazzo

There is appropriation and then there is very disrespectful appropriation.

I cannot believe that this was being touted as the official national costume of Canada's Miss Universe contestant.

A picture  here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/mucanada2008/SAMANTHAINVIETNAM2#5218631133740011586

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

ye I hear on that she look good but yo that messed up what she wearing if you really think about it

Ze

zazzo wrote:

There is appropriation and then there is very disrespectful appropriation.

I cannot believe that this was being touted as the official national costume of Canada's Miss Universe contestant.

A picture  here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/mucanada2008/SAMANTHAINVIETNAM2#5218631133740011586

Appalling. Unsurprising. 

Feather Sky

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

I've got a question that I'd be interested to hear other people's opinions on.

There's a Jewish holiday called Purim coming. I won't give all the background but on Purim you dress up in costumes, get drunk, have a grand old time, etc. Given that we have a new baby to dress up, we're especially excited, especially since I, myself, hate wearing costumes.

However, my wife has gotten this idea that she wants to dress up as an "Indian Bride" - wearing a sari, having the red dot on her forehead, etc. And this sorta strikes me as...well, inappropriate, I guess. Like maybe you shouldn't be using other people's cultural dress as a Purim or Halloween costume. I mean, I wouldn't necessarily like it if someone showed up for a Halloween party dressed as "A Jew" - wearing a fake beard, black hat, side locks, etc.

I think it's one thing to dress up as a specific PERSON of another culture or race but as a "generic ethnic guy" not so much. For example, dressing up as "Lebron James" = fine; dressing up a "A Black Man" = not really.

What do people think? Is this no big deal and I'm just being sensitive or do you think it's actually offensive to wear Indian wedding attire as a costume?

 

I can tell you from my own personal experience that I don't much appreciate it when people get dressed up as Indians. Children are taught to play Cowboys and Indians at an early age, and some parents even purchase the headdress and tomohawk. Obviously, it doesn't do much for stereotypes. Too often 'Indian' costumes are accompanied with monosyllabic poor grammar to properly reflect how backwards and simple the First Nation people are.

I don't presume to speak for people of other races or colour.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

I have an 11 year old and an 8 year old, and a number of friends with kids in that range of age, and nieces and nephews ranging from 21 to 14 yrs old...  While I do remember kids playing "cowboys and indians" when I was a kid (more than 30 years ago...), I haven't actually heard or witnessed such in the course of my adult life.  I really don't think they do it anymore.  More likely to play orcs vs elves or transformers or some damned thing.  Then again, we used to get Wild West movies on tv, and you don't generally now. 

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

Timebandit wrote:

I have an 11 year old and an 8 year old, and a number of friends with kids in that range of age, and nieces and nephews ranging from 21 to 14 yrs old...  While I do remember kids playing "cowboys and indians" when I was a kid (more than 30 years ago...), I haven't actually heard or witnessed such in the course of my adult life.  I really don't think they do it anymore.  More likely to play orcs vs elves or transformers or some damned thing.  Then again, we used to get Wild West movies on tv, and you don't generally now. 

 

orcs vs elves? lol na son cops vs robbers n kids fight each other to be the robbers lol

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Maybe so.  They tend to play out what they're exposed to.  My daughter was playing terrorists vs cops at school a couple of weeks ago.

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

Timebandit wrote:

Maybe so.  They tend to play out what they're exposed to.  My daughter was playing terrorists vs cops at school a couple of weeks ago.

 

Undecided...