Amazon's Kindle

Hopefully it would kindle an interest in actual reading, and not just represent more  conspicuous consumption among the arrived. But perhaps the struggle to attain these could be gushed over  in another forum?

Bought shares, eh, Sven?

I had been thinking about one, or the alternatives - I think I like Sony's virtual book more.

Not for reading books; I don't think I could part with the physical book.  But, I'm in law school and with that comes a lot of reading - which I can't stand to do off of a computer screen (plus being at a computer with the internet just creates too many distractions).  And I'm certainly not going to waste all of that paper (and money) printing everything off.

I kind of see this as a possible solution - easier to read, and able to get away from the computer.  Just copy and paste the articles I need into text or a PDF and download them to the Kindle or whatever.

My friend has the last generation of kindle-type machine (although it wasn't Amazon's--the make escapes me right now). My first reaction after seeing what he had was: 'printed books are done'.

Obviously not now, obviously not for the next decade or so, but soon. There's no reason for them now, and the technology will improve.

And I say this as someone who still enjoys the sound of a cork sliding and popping out of a bottle of red wine even as I know that screwtops are more practical.

Actually, no. The iPod Touch and the iPhone are wireless devices.

 

Mr. Sven: 

"BTW, if a person reads a lot of books, using the Kindle appears to be very cost-effective for readers, as the cost of an e-version of a book is substantially less than a version made of trees."

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The variety grown in libraries (that's a place of public access to reading materials, open to the indigent, young and old) are, fortunately, going to do far more for the society that maintains you, while costing you, the concerned taxpayer, very little.

Hell, even your own Andrew Carnegie understood that. But he also understood, like his followers back then, that an unread population would someday want more, be less generous with the practitioners of noblesse oblige.

But there I go, mentioning "public" again.  Sorry to interrupt your private musings.

 

 

   Up until recent months I pretty much thought I would be a paper book only sort of person but as of late I've been giving some sort of electronic reader a more serious looksee.

  I can't actually see me using it to replace reading fiction as most times when I'm reading a fiction book it's somewhere like a bathtub or under a tree in the back forty.  When I read fiction it's my escape and I can't get into it the same way from digitized text then from the pages of a book. I've tried.  Many of the old classics are now available for free, Pride and Prejudice just isn't the same.    I regularly use my library for my fiction needs. 

 I do however have a few ongoing research projects that I'm perpetually working on.  The library as good as it is doesn't carry many primary sources of old Irish texts or the works of many older scholars or writers in some of the areas I'm working in.   Over the past while I've discovered that many of these older sources and texts are actually being digitized and put online for free.  There are many books whose copyright has run out and are available for the commons.  An example is one book that I was after wasn't available in the public system. It was in University library, probably in the dusty book section,  but considering that I lived 100s of kms' from said institution and would have to pay to take it out even if I  managed to get there it was a bit of trouble to get. There are also some books, like those in the reference sections that can't be taken out.    I found it online from a rare book dealer at a cost of 150 dollars.   Then to my delight I found a digitized version available for free download.  It's now on my computer which is great.  Even better it's now easily searchable, I can easily print off or cut and paste relevant versions, it's available to me perpetually and I can mark up the texts with notes and not wreck the book.  It also doesn't take up anymore room in my already way over crowded reference library.  Though my harddrive is getting pretty close to be filled. :D

  I do use many modern reference books in my work, including things like textbooks.  I do use the library as much as possible to access these books, if they even have them,  but on many occasions if it's a book that I know I will be refering back to on many occasions I end up buying a hardcopy if I can afford it.  It's the  nature of how I work. I might be reading something else a month after  reading a book and it twigs something from the other book that I want to recheck.  Sometimes it's incredibly frustrating if I no longer have the book on hand. I also barely ever read a reference or non-fiction book from cover to cover or all in on go.   I've noticed more and more that these types of books are becoming available in digitized versions at a cheaper price and getting them that way is really appealing. 

  Then there's journals and articles which I use a lot most of which are available in digitized versions.  These types of things can be read on some readers as well.  My library does give patrons access to some databases where I find things I need.  

 

  Right now all of this is on my computer which works but accessing them does tie me to the computer screen and single chair.  I do get tired reading from it's screen and being in one place ALL of the time.   I don't have a problem admiting that considering getting a reader is really about desire and convenience rather then strict need.  I can make do with my computer.    It would be nice to be able to take the electronic versions of my research texts to the local coffee shop and work there. Something I already do with books or hardcopy.   It would be nice to be able to work at the table on my porch when it's a nice day out.   I do already on occasion,  but if there if there is a small breeze I spend more time trying to keep the hardcopies of the journal article I'm reading from flapping  or blowing away. :D  It would be nice to be able to be able to read the text flat on the table with my notebook right beside it,  the way you do with books in one of those University library cuby desks where you can physically lean in and pour 'over' the text instead of just peering at it on and upright screen.   I can admit that this is all really just habit for me but when I working with text on my computer I do miss the physicallity of working with books and flat paper.  I regularly use things like rulers or the top of my pen when I'm trying to work through a particularly complex section.  I can't do that easily on an upright screen. 

 

 

 

Sven, I think you know how much I hate to agree with anything you say, but here I go.

Having recently found out about the environmental footprint of the average printed book (a lot, wayyy too much) I've been in a bit of a crux. I love books, and reading, and libraries, and lending books to friends.

Would the environmental footprint of these new machines be that much less? Not per book of course, but the manufacturing, delivery, and eventual destruction? I'm thinking the e-books would be more, even though the advantages, in the short-term, for those rich enough to buy them, are clear. 

My cynical thought of the day is that maybe in a decade or so, like Catchfire says, or maybe in 40 or 50 years, when all of us are gone or on the way out, the e-books will take hold (if the planet's still intact that is) because the generations that aren't raised on "books=information" only will be fine to make the switch to e-books. They won't have the sentimental attachment to the tactile book experience we had, and people like us will be mocked like those who refused to get answering machines did 15 years ago, and then those who didn't switch to "invisible" answering machines did a while later. Now, it's completely normalized.

I too need to make notes, and add stickies, flag chapters as I read. But brains can be retrained to recall information in different ways, and quite quickly. The internet and email are pretty clear examples of that.

We're dinosaurs, we print-lovers.  

RosaL wrote:

Michelle wrote:

I went to see Richard Stallman give a talk in Toronto last week, and he had some interesting things to say about the whole e-book phenomenon as it relates to copyright and digital rights management.

I don't have time to go into detail right now, but basically his position is that e-books and e-book readers are an attempt by publishers to ensure that the basic things you do with regular books - read them, lend, give and share them to others - is not possible with e-books.  

They were really hoping these e-books would catch on, because that would make it harder for people to share the way they do with regular books.  And we'll be paying for the privilege.   But luckily, e-books haven't caught on because people just don't really like them much.

I won't be getting an e-book reader any time soon.  

 

Well, it's a bit like digital music, I suppose. It is possible to share on certain platforms and I imagine it will get easier. And there are plenty of free e-books - a lot of classics, for example. 

 There's also computer software and movies. If you know how to do it and are wishy washy on the legalities you can get pretty much anything that's been put out in a digital format.  Even the best digital technology that the industry puts out to stop the reprinting seems to get cracked pretty quickly.    I see the same thing happening with ebooks if they get more popular.     Many not free ebooks have been 'cracked' already though it's mostly just the really popular ones.  Just take a jaunt into bittorrent world.  For instance I just found Naomi Kleins-Shock Doctrine, cracked and ready to wing to my computer if I so desire.  After that I could share it with anyone using numerous different digital avenues. 

Catchfire:

"Libraries will burn and no one will care."

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Were you burped on the Gothic novel, Catch? The 19th century romantic?If it came to pass that no one cared about the sight of burning libraries, the manner of their reading, the medium, would not matter a tinker's damn.

 

I think Agent 204 speaks for the less euphoric, pragmatic, ass-out-of-the-pants majority: 'I'm sticking with the dead trees for now." Sensible.

And if you really like that one you get out of the library, buy a nice paperback next year for the re-read. It won't have the odour of a leather-bound edition, but it'll leave you with enough for a couple of 40 ouncers of the best.

Unless money is no object, of course, and one can rhapsodize about the minutae of life without the aid of a crown royal. 

KeyStone wrote:

I'm not sure how big this is going to get.
If you really want to save money, you go to the library. 

 

Well, yes, if you live anywhere near a reasonably well-stocked library. The rest of us have to find other ways. 

Anywhere in Ontario is free from Cambridge Library. Some of the best of the oldies are preserved out there in the small towns. They can't afford to buy too many new titles yearly.

Amazon removes Paid-For Content From Users' Kindles

Quote:

George Orwell always had a fine ear for hypocrisy. Even so, quite what he would have made of last week's Kindle debacle, in which Amazon was accused of tactics reminiscent of Big Brother, is unclear. When it emerged that the company had secretly deleted copies of Orwell's novels from people's Kindle ebook readers because of a legal issue, the irony was too delicious to ignore: the writer who best charted authoritarian attitudes in 1984 and Animal Farm had become the victim of a sort of eerie censorship.

It turned out to be a copyright issue - MobileReference, the company that sold the copies, did not have the rights to use Orwell's work; the ebooks had slipped through the net and Amazon was trying to erase its mistake.

The removal was enough to set off angry customers and, despite the company's efforts to try and explain the mix-up, the outrage continued.

"Being able to pull the books out of your paid-for and legal library doesn't sound right," wrote one puzzled user on the Kindle Boards website. "Once it's sold, they no longer own the rights to that copy, or at least, that's what I thought."

 

Catchfire wrote:

Amazon removes Paid-For Content From Users' Kindles

This goes back to the Orwellian "digital rights management" conspiracy that [url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/babble-book-lounge/amazons-kindle#comment-98... Stallman was talking about.[/url]

Bill C-61, to revise the Copyright Act, is currently the subject of public hearings in Canada. It is a scary piece of legislation.

Quote:

...Bill C-61's protection of technical measures embedded in works will permit rights holders to further lock down content and [b]may force consumers to buy multiple copies of content they already own[/b].

The problem stems from the way the government has chosen to implement the [url=http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/]WIPO treaties[/url]. The [url=http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/wct/]WCT[/url] and [url=http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/wppt/]WPPT[/url] require that ratifying countries provide adequate protection against the circumvention of "technical measures" used to control the use of works. These technical measures commonly come in the form of technical protection measures (TPMs) and digital rights management (DRM) information.

TPMs are electronic "locks" embedded in works to prevent access to or use of content. TPMs are most commonly used to prevent copying of CDs and DVDs and are used to lock cellular phones. DRM information identifies the work, the author of the work, the owner and information about the terms and conditions of use of the work. The most commonly encountered DRM systems provide the terms of use for music and videos purchased through iTunes which, among other things, place restrictions on the number of computers a work can be copied onto.

The WIPO treaties permit a country to make it illegal to circumvent technical measures only if the purpose is to infringe copyright. If there is no infringing purpose, then there is no violation. This is the approach New Zealand has taken.

[b]Unfortunately for consumers, Bill C-61 is more like the U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act,[/b] which makes it illegal to circumvent technical measures for any reason, [b]regardless of whether or not the intention is to infringe.[/b] This means that if a person circumvents, removes or bypasses a technical measure embedded in a work, then there is a copyright violation and potential liability, even if the intended use is permitted under the Act (such as under the fair dealing provisions).

Recently, content providers have been moving away from using technical measures to prevent copying so that a CD, video or electronic book could be freely copied onto other devices and computers. By choosing to provide blanket protection for largely ineffective technical measures, [b]the government is arguably going too far, and could make people who merely want to place a copy of a CD or DVD on their iPod or computer into infringers.[/b]

With protected content, a consumer could have to buy multiple copies of a DVD to have one for both a DVD player and an iPod or computer. The worst part may be that circumventing or bypassing a technical measure to make a copy of a CD for personal use makes the $500 cap on damages inapplicable.

[url=http://www.mcinnescooper.com/index.cfm?cm=News&ce=details&primaryKey=229...

Theree cheers for Globalization!

ETA: Actually, I forgot that C-61 had died on the order paper when the last election was called. But the Harpocons are determined to revive it, and there is pressure from Big Media to make the new bill (not as yet released) even more draconian.

Catchfire wrote:

And, once a generation of scholars have been bred to use it and weaned off the cardboard (surely to start with the heartless science students and soulless engineers) they will begin to get their Cosmo zinecasts and Oprah 

zzzZZZzzzZZZzzz

I agree, a book is kind of like a bicycle: we hit upon one of the best ways to perform a necessary service already, but 'progress' made us move past it. Except, like Maysie says above, there are massive complications with the way books are currently produced: bleaches, mass production, repeated 'new and improved' editions of old classics, and the pulp industry in general. There's nothing wrong with the book itself, but like with all things, capitalism poisons anything it touches.

Sven, there was an article in a recent New Yorker about the Kindle 2.0 and I'll try to find it online.  Basically, it didn't sound all that satisfactory.  For one thing, did you know that page numbers are lost when you download so an index is useless?  I think they've got a long, long way to go before I'd give up regular books. 

 

ETA:  Here it is:  http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/08/03/090803fa_fact_baker

 

Apple's Kindle Killer?

Quote:

The tablet is rumoured to be any size and scale between the iPhone and the MacBook laptop. Some have described the tablet as a "Kindle-killer", potentially usurping the Amazon Kindle and other electronic book readers. It would be billed as a solution for people who work a lot on the move but don't want to carry a laptop. What experts believe would set the tablet apart would be that, instead of a keyboard, it would use a touch-sensitive screen. Kahney said: "Apple will totally rejig the computing experience. You won't manipulate a keyboard and mouse any more but rather use an intuitive touchscreen. It will very tactile. It will be a whole new paradigm."

It might also prove the launchpad for an "iTunes for newspapers", allowing commuters to read news on screen instead of in print. Even magazines might be reproduced convincingly on the high-resolution screen. Kahney said: "Instead of reading a review of a band, you could have audio and video embedded and listen to them and watch them being interviewed."

In any discussion of the environmental impact of books (paper vs. electronic) I think it would be important to take into consideration both the commerical market for used (paper) books, and the way (paper) books are circulated informally. I wish I could easily find a reference on the number of readers whose hands an average book passes through (I did hear mention of the figure on a CBC radio program once, but did not take note of the figure... and my attempts to google the information were met my a tsunami of studies on Library book circulation and discussions of readers per copy of periodicals from a marketing perspective), I do remember being quite surprised at how high the number was. Tie that figure in with the access barrier wage zombie has mentioned and it may affect the analysis of the environmental impact. I would also question if Ebooks would (or even could) be "passed-along" in the way traditional books are.

Quote:

 Contrary to MacPhail's dismissive description of the Kindle's screen as being like Etch-a-Sketch

While I too have not yet held a Kindle, I understand that the "etch-a-sketch" analogy is meant to be positive and not dismissive. The technology is supposed to eliminate glare on the screen because it doesn't use back lighting. 

The Free Software Foundation, an activist organization dedicated to protecting the freedoms of computer users has named the Amazon Kindle "the Swindle".    Here's why:

Quote:

"The Amazon kindle provides convenience, but at the cost of freedom. When you purchase a kindle, you must agree to use the Digital Restriction Management (DRM) system. Since all of the Kindle ebooks you purchase from Amazon are in their proprietary DRM format, you are also promising to not share them with friends. And, because you promise to not circumvent the DRM, there is no way to move them to another device or a computer. You are locked into the Kindle and you are locked into Amazon. If you try to move them to a new ebook reader or a computer, Amazon can end your service and remove access to the books you have already purchased.

It seems that Amazon only cares to oppose DRM when they can profit from it, such as when they advertise their MP3's as "Play Anywhere, DRM-Free Downloads." The same is not true for Kindle ebooks. Perhaps if they were honest they would advertise their ebooks as "Play Only Here, DRM-Laden Kindle Ebooks."

Read more at "Defective by Design", the Free Software Foundation's campaign opposing DRM-laden devices.