Ontario NDP Leadership News 2

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Thu, 2009-02-12 15:07

Bookish Agrarian

scarboroughnative wrote:

"Inexperienced" when gauged in proportional terms to her fellow candidates.

No code words here just cold hard facts.

Certainly she is more experienced politically than anyone who is not in the "game" but it is important to note that she is the junior player on the field.

This may be a strength or a weakness but I suspect that a party membership that has an aging demographic may see her as not ready yet for a leadership role.

Also her memberhship drive results were rather uninspiring.

This rationalization makes your claims even sillier.

Thu, 2009-02-12 16:06

#103

alphasix actual

Andrea has had less time in the political arena than any of the other candidate. That's a simple fact. To equate this with some sort of Obama Hillery nonsense just muddies the waters. What is most ridiculous is her supporters touting sisters for Andrea and the need for change. Yet show her endorsements by all the staid usual suspects. There is nothing really new about her policies. I hope she is not elected simply on some politically correct guilt trip.

Thu, 2009-02-12 16:27

#104

Bookish Agrarian

I have made up my mind to support Andrea Horwath because I want to elect a potential Premier as leader, not because I want to elect a woman leader. Suggesting what you suggest is not only childish it is insulting. As well age and experience do not equate to the same thing. There is no factual basis for claiming that Ms Horwath is less experienced as Scott P pointed out above. If that is the best that other campaigns can come up with against her campaign it must mean they have nothing positive to contribute.

As for myself I will continue to focus on Ms Horwath's positives rather than trying to out negative other campaigns.

Thu, 2009-02-12 16:43

#105

northwestern_lad

Bookish Agrarian wrote:

I like Gilles, but if we are going to look at the whole package, lets remember he sat in caucus quietly while fundamental issues like public auto insurance were abandoned. In other words history cuts both ways. I also think running on negatives is not the way to build the party for the future.

I would point out to this that Mr. Bisson himself has said on numerous occasions that mistakes were made during that government and that he has learned from them. Just like anything else in this life, you learn from both your successes and your failures, correct things and mistakes a like. Unlike the other candidates though, he's been the only one to serve in provincial government, which means is that he's the only one who has had those experiences, good bad and otherwise, to draw upon.

Thu, 2009-02-12 16:45

#106

northwestern_lad

Sunday Hat wrote:

Can we burst one bit of bizarre mythology right now?

No candidate has produced any membership drive results.

The Bisson campaign has issued a release touting the growth of membership in Timmins-James Bay (relative to Hamilton Centre, Toronto Danforth and Beaches) and has declared that he has therefore signed up more members.

However, that assumes that the Leadership contenders have only recruited in their own ridings which is, of course, ridiculous. Horwath, Tabuns and Prue have all been travelling the province signing up new members in Kingston, Ottawa, Windsor, Oshawa, etc. In fact, it's likely that some of the new members in Timmins were signed up by one of the other leadership camps.

I can only conclude that Gilles focussed his recruitment drive exclusively in his own backyard - which is a sad state of affairs if true.

Furthermore, I'm not sure he should be bragging about the fact that his riding only 258 members as of last year. If you let your riding association languish it's easy to claim dramatic growth - but I'm not sure it's something you should be proud of.

Sunday, your conclusion about Mr. Bisson is wrong. He was recruiting all over the province too and doing all the same stuff just like the rest. The reason why no one has a precise number is because of the use of online registrations, which are much harder to track because anyone can just go online and sign up. I have it on good authority that Mr. Bisson's campaign signed up close to 2,000 members, which means that they signed up at least 800 from outside of his own riding. That didn't "just happen" on it's own

As for his previous riding totals, keep in mind that his riding has about half of the population of the other candidates ridings, so he had a much smaller pool to draw upon.

Thu, 2009-02-12 16:50

#107

Bookish Agrarian

You see as I said I like Gilles. But what you were doing shows the problems with negative campaigning. History cuts many ways. Playing the cards you are playing only undermines a candidate in the end.

Gilles has many admirable qualities. Glossing over those times when they failed him are not a good way to campaign. And if I wasn't already strongly impressed with Gilles your most recent intervention would move him down my own personal list.

Thu, 2009-02-12 16:55

#108

northwestern_lad

Bookish... I agree about the problems with negative campaigning, which is why I don't take part in any. I just come on and talk about Gilles and let that speak for itself

Thu, 2009-02-12 17:00

#109

Bookish Agrarian

That might be what you think you are doing, but that is not what you are doing. Also adding a little smiley face after your comments is just freaking annoying.

Thu, 2009-02-12 17:22

#110

northwestern_lad

Bookish Agrarian wrote:
That might be what you think you are doing, but that is not what you are doing. Also adding a little smiley face after your comments is just freaking annoying.

Actually Bookish the reason why I add the smiley face at the end of my comments isn't to be snarky or anything, it's to just let people know that I am saying what I am saying in good nature. I'm just going from past experience where I have written things that were meant to be good natured and such and because of how what I wrote was interpreted, it was thought to be an attack, hence the smiley face. That's one of the downsides of writing online: you loose the inflexion of one's voice

Thu, 2009-02-12 17:53

#111

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

northwestern_lad wrote:
Okay, I must respectfully take issue with a couple of things here. First of all, Mr. Bisson has done much more than just "work on a workplace literacy program" in his life before QP:
- He was a teacher (taught shop),

- an electrician,

- in the air force,

- an advocate for workers health and safety

- staffer with both the Steelworkers and the OFL

I'm not suggesting that I covered each candidate's complete resume. I was looking for an example that was comparable to Andrea's work in a legal clinic. And, remember, I'm not the one throwing around casual slurs about alleged inexperience.

Thu, 2009-02-12 17:57

#112

Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture

scarboroughnative wrote:

"Inexperienced" when gauged in proportional terms to her fellow candidates.

No code words here just cold hard facts.

Actually, as demonstrated above, your argument is backed up by no facts at all (either cold hard ones or warm mushy ones). She's not inexperienced at all; she's actually got as impressive or more impressive a resume than anyone else in the field.

Thu, 2009-02-12 17:58

#113

alphasix actual

Bookish Agrarian wrote:

I have made up my mind to support Andrea Horwath because I want to elect a potential Premier as leader, not because I want to elect a woman leader. Suggesting what you suggest is not only childish it is insulting. As well age and experience do not equate to the same thing. There is no factual basis for claiming that Ms Horwath is less experienced as Scott P pointed out above. If that is the best that other campaigns can come up with against her campaign it must mean they have nothing positive to contribute.

As for myself I will continue to focus on Ms Horwath's positives rather than trying to out negative other campaigns.

Get a grip. So you are actually saying that Andrea has been involved in politics longer than the other candidates.

I hope you will agree that our next Leader should be elected as someone who will become Premier. The rest of Ontario could give a flying about some underdog newcomer winning hearts and minds. I believe that in time Andrea, if she sticks it out, may be electable. But unfortunately I don't think the rest of the non NDP folk out their are going to welcome her with open arms as this juncture.

Thu, 2009-02-12 18:09

#114

Bookish Agrarian

Only someone with no experience with politics would think that the only relevant experience in politics is sitting behind the fancy desk.

Horwath's deep resume is as relevant and as important as all the rest. And the last thing I would call Andrea Horwath is an underdog, or newcomer. She is neither.

Thu, 2009-02-12 18:49

#115

Stockholm

Is there a reason why you insist of always referring to Gilles Bisson as "MISTER Bisson"?? Using honorifics like that are already very passe in Canada (I can't even remember the last time anyone called me Mr.XXX) and especially in the NDP we tend to be informal and be on a first name basis with everyone. Jack Layton maybe "Mr. Layton" when he's interviewed on Question Period - but within the party - I've never heard him called anything but "Jack" and so it should be!

Thu, 2009-02-12 19:06

#116

scarboroughnative

Interesting...who would have thought that the word "inexperienced" could conjure up so much defensive word play! Loving this. A raw nerve has been touched methinks.

Thu, 2009-02-12 19:21

#117

Sunday Hat

Partially because it's such an inane thing to say.

The most "experienced" of the candidates served as Mayor of a now non-existent borough. Gilles has been an MPP in an opposition caucus who didn't make it higher than PA when his party was in government. It's silly to say that a former City Councillor and two-term MPP is "inexperienced" when you look at the comparisons.

Thu, 2009-02-12 19:33

#118

Bookish Agrarian

There is no defensivness. Merely setting the record straight.

Thu, 2009-02-12 21:00

#119

Maysie