Afghanistan, Still Losing the War, Part 12

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Wed, 2009-01-28 01:01

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Gee, it turns out that making Afghanistan safe for little girls to go to school isn't really why we're there at all. It's not even about "nation-building." It's about political cleansing of forces hostile to the USA:

Quote:
US Defense Secretary Robert Gates declared Afghanistan the top US military priority Tuesday but said US objectives there should be "limited."

"My own personal view is that [b]our primary goal is to prevent Afghanistan from being used as a base for terrorists and extremists[/b] to attack the United States and our allies," he said.

"And whatever else we need to do flows from that objective," he told lawmakers in his first appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee as President Barack Obama's defense secretary.

[b]His comments marked a significant narrowing of US ambitions[/b] even as the United States prepares to nearly double the size of its forces in Afghanistan in response to an unraveling security situation.

"There is little doubt that our greatest military challenge right now is Afghanistan," Gates said in his opening statement. [b]"President Obama has made it clear that the Afghanistan theater should be our top military priority."[/b]

Gates told lawmakers that the bulk of a [b]30,000-troop buildup[/b] requested by the US commander in Afghanistan, General David McKiernan, could be in place by mid-summer but bases must be expanded to receive the full complement of additional forces.

"But I would be very skeptical of additional forces levels, American force levels, beyond what General McKiernan has already asked for," he said....

[b]Gates said the US goal in Afghanistan was a state in which the Afghan people do not provide a safe haven to al-Qaeda, reject the rule of the Taliban and support their legitimately elected government.[/b]

But he was blunt about the difficulties of stabilizing the country and the chances for success of an extensive nation-building project.

[color=red][b]"If we set ourselves the objective of creating some sort of a Central Asian Valhalla* over there, we will lose,"[/b][/color] he warned Senators. [b]"Because nobody in the world has that much time, patience or money,[/b] to be honest."

"It seems to me we ought to keep our objectives realistic and limited in Afghanistan. Otherwise we will set ourselves up for failure," he said.

[url=http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jMX_U3qwWcsgXa8-KrQex...

[color=red][b]* I think he meant something more like "Shangri-La".[/b][/color]

Wed, 2009-01-28 03:50

#53

Fidel

Webgear wrote:
Fidel, if the NDP can not change the outcome now, they are not worthy to govern. They have well over 6 months to prepare statements and organized a detailed plan yet they remain silent and without a plan. If the NDP is the working man's party, they are doing a very poor job if they are unable to change the public mind on a single subject

If I had a clue as to what any of you are talking aboot, it might help me to compose a reply.

And look at your first sentence above, webgear. It's what is known as a logical fallacy. The reason the NDP can't change the outcome now is not necessarily because they are unfit to govern, but for the more obvious and outstanding reason that they did not have enough elected MP's to vote down mission renewal. And they still wouldnt have enough sitting MP's to defeat a Tory-Liberal House vote on maintaining troops in Afghanistan.

In fact, the coalition is all about the economy and Liberal-NDP are in agreement that the Harpers were completely out to lunch as to the real consquences of do-nothing government while massive job losses occur across Canada, over 100, 000 on Harper's watch so far. The smaller 38 percent coalition of Reform Party retreads and right-wing hacks scabbed together from across the country may well be good at transforming themselves into pocket lint for Loco Jorge and following him into the stan like the obedient puppies they are, but they actually dont know how to run a semi-capitalist mixed market economy. They dont have a clue! And the Liberals are only marginally better. But the NDP can be a voice for changing course in this larger and more democratic 62% coalition. Old line party supporters want reminding that the second-hand neoliberal voodoo that both Tories and Liberals have been following for the last 30 years is falling down around their ears everywhere.

And the sliding of $75 billion taxpayer dollars to Canada's big time banksters two weeks after the election didnt go unnoticed by the NDP. Your Tories suck, webgear. They arent fit to govern this country let alone trying to aid a US-backed kleptocracy in Central Asia on how to run their affairs. Or perhaps it's that the Harpers and Karzai's stoogeocrats do have several things in common. Sorry, but that's my opinion as well as that of many-many more Canadians.

Fri, 2009-01-30 19:06

#54

contrarianna

NATO ordered to murder CIA personel--or perhaps just poor Afghan farmers?
===
"NATO High Commander Issues Illegitimate Order to Kill

SPIEGEL has obtained, NATO's top commander, US General John Craddock, has issued a "guidance" providing NATO troops with the authority "to attack directly drug producers and facilities throughout Afghanistan."

According to the document, deadly force is to be used even in those cases where there is no proof that suspects are actively engaged in the armed resistance against the Afghanistan government or against Western troops. It is "no longer necessary to produce intelligence or other evidence that each particular drug trafficker or narcotics facility in Afghanistan meets the criteria of being a military objective," Craddock writes. "

Support Our Hired Murderers

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,604183,00.html

Sat, 2009-01-31 21:15

#55

Webgear

"Sapper Sean David Greenfield, 25, was killed when the armoured vehicle he was riding in struck an improvised explosive device in the Zhari district, west of Kandahar city."

Sapper Sean David Greenfield

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

Sun, 2009-02-08 00:54

#56

Sven

Author and historian Richard Reeves: [u]"Why are we in Afghanistan?"[/u]

_______________________________________

[b]Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!![/b]

Tue, 2009-02-10 13:54

#57

contrarianna

Reuters story:
"Canada defends rising Afghan costs as crisis bites"
...
"Skeptical opposition legislators grilled MacKay over why, at a time of big budget deficits and soaring unemployment, Ottawa was pouring billions of dollars into a combat mission that critics say shows few signs of success...."

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5187WE20090209

Notice Reuters got critiques of the Cons from both the Bloc and from the NDP ---but no comment from the Liberals or "Leader" of the "opposition", Count Igulla, pathetic.

I guess even the slightest criticism of the "mission" on an international newswire story could upset Iggy's US base support.

Mon, 2009-02-16 19:29

#58

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
Canada's army is being pushed to the limit by the strains of keeping a 2,700-strong military mission in Afghanistan and the force will need at least a year to recover once the troops return on schedule in 2011, the top army commander said on Monday.
Lieutenant-General Andrew Leslie also told Reuters that he had heard nothing either officially or unofficially to substantiate [b]media rumors that some of the troops would stay in Afghanistan after 2011[/b].

Canada has a regular army of just 22,000 soldiers with a similar-sized force of reserves, half of whom serve part-time. Leslie said men and equipment in Afghanistan were wearing out fast and likened his job to juggling a chain saw.

"We are at the limit ... we are now sending senior noncommissioned officers and officers back for their fourth tour," he told Reuters in an interview at Canada's defense headquarters.

"Our equipment is going to have to be reset, just like our soldiers have to be reset at a certain time."

[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN16321049][color=mediumb...

Mon, 2009-02-16 19:55

#59

Webgear

Not really a surprise.

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

Mon, 2009-02-16 23:56

#60

Fidel

You can say that again, I say, he can say that again.

Wed, 2009-02-18 01:20

#61

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
President Obama said Tuesday that he would send an additional 17,000 American troops to Afghanistan this spring and summer, putting his stamp firmly on a war that he has long complained is going in the wrong direction.

The order will add nearly 50 percent to the 36,000 American troops already there. A further decision on sending more troops will come after the administration completes a broader review of Afghanistan policy, White House officials said.

Mr. Obama said in a written statement that the increase was "necessary to stabilize a deteriorating situation in Afghanistan, which has not received the strategic attention, direction and resources it urgently requires."

At least for now, Mr. Obama's decision gives American commanders in Afghanistan most but not all of the troops they had asked for. But the decision also carries political risk for a president who will be sending more troops to Afghanistan before he has begun to fulfill a promised rapid withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/washington/18web-troops.html][color=me...

The generals asked for 30,000 more troops.
Dubya sent 6,000 in January.
Obomba is sending 8,000 this spring and another 9,000 this summer.

Wed, 2009-02-18 02:19

#62

NorthReport

8 Go on Trial in London for Second Time in Plot to Bomb Flights to U.S. and Canada

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/world/europe/18britain.html?ref=world

The trial, which prosecutors expect to last several months, is widely viewed among counterterrorist officials on both sides of the Atlantic as the most important to be held in Britain since the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States. The charges center on a suspected plot to simultaneously attack seven airliners flying from London’s Heathrow Airport to the United States and Canada, causing many hundreds of deaths.

The first trial ended in September with the jury failing to reach verdicts on the plane-bombing charges. But prosecutors announced almost immediately that they planned a new trial. No case here in years has drawn the same degree of attention from Washington, and officials say there has been close cooperation in preparing the case between intelligence and law enforcement officials in London and Washington.

The setting for both trials has been a heavily guarded courthouse in Woolwich, in south London, which was chosen, officials say, because it presented fewer security challenges than courthouses like the Old Bailey.

The prosecution says the bombing plot had its origins in Pakistan and involved Islamic militants with links to Al Qaeda. The accused in the case are all British residents from the London area, ages 22 to 30.

Wed, 2009-02-18 02:20

#63

NorthReport

So is this what Liberal and Conservative party policies lead to: 8 males charged in an attempt to blow Canadian passengers and Canadian planes out of the air

Airliner bomb trial: Eight men accused of plotting transatlantic attack 'carnage'Thousands of people would have died in a terrorist plot to detonate home-made bombs on seven transatlantic jets between London and the US and Canada, a court has heard. Eight men accused of transatlantic attack 'carnage' Eight men pictured sitting in the dock are standing trial charged with terrorism offences Photo: JULIA QUENZLER Top row, from the left: Waheed Zaman, Ibrahim Savant, Arafat Waheed Khan, Umar Islam. Bottom row, from the left: Tanvir Hussain, Donald Stewart-Whyte, Abdulla Ahmed Ali and Assad Sarwar, Photo: PA

Eight Islamic extremists conspired to smuggle bombs constructed from household goods and disguised as soft drinks on to the aircraft, Woolwich Crown Court in London was told.

Prosecutor Peter Wright QC said the London-based cell intended to cause civilian deaths on an "unprecedented scale" and strike a blow that "would reverberate across the globe".

Two ringleaders acted on instructions from masterminds in Pakistan to draw together a gang of suicide bombers from radicalised and vulnerable young Muslims, he said.

Opening the prosecution, Mr Wright said some defendants were "foot soldiers" with no knowledge of the scale of the conspiracy but who had the "cold-eyed certainty of the fanatic".

He said: "They were prepared to strike a blow in which they would lose their lives but it was a blow that would reverberate across the globe."

He added: "These men were indifferent to the carnage that was likely to ensue if their plans were successful.

"To them the identities of their victims was an irrelevance by race, colour, religion or creed.

"What these men intended to bring about together and with others was a violent and deadly statement of intent that would have a truly global impact."

The jury was told the conspiracy was blown into the open when counter terrorist police swooped on two senior gang figures in a Walthamstow car park on August 9, 2006.

Abdulla Ahmed Ali and Assad Sarwar had been followed by undercover detectives for weeks as they made the final preparations for the attacks, the court heard.

Mr Wright said the men and other conspirators had been extremely busy, communicated regularly with Pakistan and the intended date of the terror strike "was not far off".

He said: "It is the Crown's case that this plot was being directed from Pakistan.

"This was not something that had been devised merely by Ali and Sarwar once they had realised they shared a common interest, this was part of a much wider scheme of things.

"Acts of terrorism on an international scale, directed from abroad using home-grown terrorists, young, radicalised Muslims prepared to lose their lives in a global act of jihad."

A computer memory stick holding details of flights from Heathrow Airport to North America was found in Ali's pocket when he was arrested.

It held details of flights operated by three carriers - American Airlines, United Airlines and Air Canada - from August to October 2006.

Seven services were highlighted, all leaving from Terminal Three of the London airport and all due to be mid-flight at the same time. All the flights were one-way only.

The planes were travelling to Montreal and Toronto in Canada and San Francisco, Washington, Chicago and New York in the United States.

Mr Wright said other key conspirators were overheard discussing whether to target other flights from different terminals and as many as 18 suicide bombers.

The bombs would be made from everyday household items including batteries and soft drink bottles so they could be smuggled on board and detonated in mid-flight.

Wed, 2009-02-18 22:29

#64

NorthReport

Are Canadians taking an interest in this trial as Canadian airliners in the air supposedly were targeted?

What is going on here in this secretive British courtroom?

This is the second trial for these 8 men, having been found not guilty the first time.

Today apparently the jury was dismissed but we are not given an explanation as to why.

This is all very bizarre to say the least.

British judge dismisses jury in transatlantic airline plot case

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5izlu1iNYRPe-8uCgRVCc4KnfthKw

Wed, 2009-02-18 22:43

#65

Unionist

NorthReport, these items are of interest, but can I suggest we reserve these threads for Afghanistan?

Wed, 2009-02-18 23:03

#66

NorthReport

Unionist,

I wasn't sure where to put this British trial issue, but it seems to me if, as the prosecutors suggest, Canadian planes were targeted, it may well be the results of our troops being in Afghanistan. Do you happen to know of a more appropriate open thread?

Wed, 2009-02-18 23:14

#67

Unionist

NorthReport wrote:

Unionist,

I wasn't sure where to put this British trial issue, but it seems to me if, as the prosecutors suggest, Canadian planes were targeted, it may well be the results of our troops being in Afghanistan. Do you happen to know of a more appropriate open thread?

Not really, but by putting it here, you open the door to conspiracy theorists.

Wed, 2009-02-18 23:15

#68

Fidel

Yes, I think a separate thread for false flag gladio operations might be in order so as not to clutter threads like this one reserved specifically for the phony war on terror.

Wed, 2009-02-18 23:20

#69

Fidel

Yes, North Report, we still have a few babblers who fully believe everything the CIA has relayed to them about Afghanistan and Central Asia by way of Reader's Digest, CNN, Foxy News and Toronto Star since about 1979 or so.

Thu, 2009-02-19 00:19

#70

Fidel

[url=http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/309/joya_interview.html][color=mediumblue][... Joya[/b][/color] said in 2007:[/url]

Quote:
The U.S. is not concerned with the main cause behind terrorism in Afghanistan. That is why our people don't consider the U.S. as the "liberator" of our country. Even they have killed thousands of our innocent civilians during its so-called "war on terror" and continue to target civilians.

Apparently the U.S. troops are here to fight the Taliban but on the other hand they are fully supporting the Northern Alliance commanders, who, according to recent reports, are the main sellers of weapons and ammunitions to the Taliban and have made life terrible for people in the north of Afghanistan.

It's a phony war. Malalai Joya has said previously that war with the Taliban is an excuse for the US military occupation of her country. The Taliban and Northern Alliance are "brothers in creed" and both have been supported by the US overtly and covertly in the recent past.

Thu, 2009-02-19 03:21

#71

Fidel

Unionist wrote:
Fidel wrote:

Yes, North Report, we still have a few babblers who fully believe everything the CIA has relayed to them about Afghanistan and Central Asia by way of Reader's Digest, CNN, Foxy News and Toronto Star since about 1979 or so.

By the way, Fidel, I've warned you before to stop linking to sites that allow anti-Semitic commentary, and I'm warning you again.

Who is it this time? The former UK ambassador's personal website? GlobalResearch.ca? Go screw yourself, I've had enough of you and your thread diversions when you dont care for the way the discussion is flowing.

Never mind unionist, North Report, because conspiracy is what the USSA is dealing in with respect to 9/11. If unionist can point us to any proof whatsoever that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed "masterminded" 9/11, and other than his "confession" tortured out of him after five years in the gulag, then we might consider to cease referring to that truckload of nonsense as US-sponsored conspiracy theory in the same vein. We get all kinds of cranks around here, and you'll just have to learn to tolerate them.

Thu, 2009-02-19 09:19

#72

NorthReport

And now the UK is probably going to increase its troop strength in Afghanistan.

What's really going on here? Why is this area so important to NATO or whotever?

Defence Secretary John Hutton: Britain could send more troops to Afghanistan

John Hutton, the Defence Secretary, has said Britain is considering sending more troops to Afghanistan even though the UK is "playing above our weight" in the country.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/4696595/Defence-Secretary-John-Hutton-Britain-could-send-more-troops-to-Afghanistan.html

Thu, 2009-02-19 14:57

#73

Fidel

NorthReport wrote:

And now the UK is probably going to increase its troop strength in Afghanistan.

What's really going on here? Why is this area so important to NATO or whotever?

Zbignew Brzezinski, like Cheney and Rumsfeld and the rest of them, is an embedded bureaucrat in US government since the 1970s. He's there advising Obama's cosmetic government now. Afghanistan is about all kinds of things. The CIA has sought to compete with the Brits in controlling the world supply of illicit drugs since last century. But even more importantly for the vicious Anglo-American empire and as Brzezinski said about it, the spice route countries and stani nations are key to controlling Asia. It's part of the "grand chess board" scheme of things, and once the US military gains a toe-hold in a country, theyre very hard to get rid of. Youre talking about world domination, the very thing the west accused the Soviets of pursuing, which was a total lie. Predatory capitalists and colonialists alike have sought to surround Russia and China militarily ever since US military Generals MacArthur and Lemay, who were two dangerous psychopaths who wanted to incinerate several hundred million people in Asia with nuclear weapons in an attempt to murder an idea, and even before that. And if and when that happens, it's checkmate.

Thu, 2009-02-19 15:07

#74

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Don't forget the [url=http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/oil.html][color=mediumblue][u]....

Thu, 2009-02-19 15:07

#75

NorthReport

What about their war on drugs!

Thu, 2009-02-19 18:23

#76

Snuckles

[url=http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hITyqVOjG08VRKlLCe5j7W... court upholds sentences in Quran trial[/url]

Quote:
KABUL (AP) — An appeals court in Afghanistan upheld 20-year prison sentences Sunday for two men who published a translation of the Quran that drove religious leaders to call for their execution.

The controversial text is a translation of Islam's holy book into an Afghan language without the original Arabic verses alongside. Muslims regard the Arabic Quran as words given directly by God. A translation is not considered a Quran itself, and it is believed a mistranslation could warp God's word.

A host of Muslim clerics in this conservative Islamic state have condemned the translation — which was published in 2007 and handed out for free — as blasphemous and accused its publishers of setting themselves up as false prophets.

Critics have said the trial illustrates the undue influence of hard-line clerics in Afghanistan's fledgling legal system.

Thu, 2009-02-19 18:48

#77

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/lucky-quran-publ... have another thread about that.[/u][/color][/url]

Thu, 2009-02-19 21:57

#78

Unionist

As Harper embraces Obama, his new Afghan commander welcomes Obama's fresh batch of cannon fodder. Why can't the MSM even appreciate irony?

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/02/19/commander-kandahar.html][color=...
New Canadian commander in Afghanistan welcomes U.S. troop influx[/color][/url]

Quote:
Brig.-Gen. Jon Vance officially took charge of the more than 2,800 Canadian soldiers, air crew and support staff serving in Kandahar during a ceremony in the volatile southern province. [...]

Vance said Canadians shouldn't view the U.S. buildup as the Americans taking over.

"I see no threat at all to Canada's pride of accomplishments and pride of place in the future as long as we're here," Vance said. [...]

He also said he believes the Taliban and other militants are losing influence in Afghanistan.

"I believe the insurgency is increasingly marginalized, and Afghans will be able to assume greater freedom from the scourge of insurgent activity and follow [b]the destiny they have chosen[/b]," he said.

This idiot won't last long.

Fri, 2009-02-20 20:19

#79

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:

Wikileaks has released a confidential NATO document that civilian deaths from the war in Afghanistan have increased by 46 per cent over the past year.

"Coalition deaths increased by 35 per cent, assassinations and kidnappings by 50 per cent and attacks on the Kabul based Government of Hamid Karzai also more than doubled, rising a massive 119 per cent.

The report highlights huge increases on attacks aimed at Coalition forces, including a 27 per cent increase in IED attacks, a 40 per cent. rise in rifle and rocket fire and an increase in surface to air fire of 67 per cent.

[url=http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/irtn/leaked-nato-report-shows-significan... Adams[/u][/color][/url]

Fri, 2009-02-20 23:35

#80

Webgear

Gates says he would accept truce in Afghanistan

"KRAKOW, Poland -- U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Friday that Washington could accept a political agreement between the Afghan government and the Taliban if the insurgents will lay down their arms and accept the government's terms.

He was responding to a question from a Pakistani reporter about whether a deal struck by Pakistan with Taliban fighters in the restive Swat valley could serve as a model for Afghanistan."

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

Fri, 2009-02-20 23:56

#81

Unionist

Quote:
U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Friday that Washington could accept a political agreement between the Afghan government and the Taliban if the insurgents will lay down their arms and accept the government's terms.

And I'm quite sure the Taliban would accept a political agreement with the Afghan so-called "government" if the U.S., Canadian, NATO, and puppet troops laid down [b]their[/b] arms and accepted the [b]Taliban's[/b] terms.

So peace is at hand! Thanks for the scoop, Webgear.

Sat, 2009-02-21 00:15

#82

Webgear

What do you mean peace? I would say another 15 years of civil war. It will be like the mid 90s all over again.

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

Sat, 2009-02-21 00:19

#83

Unionist

There were 15 years of civil war in the mid-90s?

[size=8]... pulling out my calculator ...[/size]

Sat, 2009-02-21 00:25

#84

Webgear

No I said there would be civil war for 15 years and that it would be like like the civil war in the mid 90s.

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

Sat, 2009-02-21 15:07

#85

Fidel

North Atlantic Treaty Org baulks at more troops for phony war

Mon, 2009-02-23 00:37

#86

Webgear

The MND Peter McKay seems not to know the difference between a US Marine Expeditionary Brigade and a US Army Stryker Brigade Combat Team.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090222/mackay_afghanistan_090222/20090222?hub=QPeriod

The US is deploying a Marine Expeditionary Brigade to Kandahar province not Army Stryker Brigade.

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

Mon, 2009-02-23 00:43

#87

thorin_bane

Fidel wrote:
Unionist wrote:
Fidel wrote:

Yes, North Report, we still have a few babblers who fully believe everything the CIA has relayed to them about Afghanistan and Central Asia by way of Reader's Digest, CNN, Foxy News and Toronto Star since about 1979 or so.

By the way, Fidel, I've warned you before to stop linking to sites that allow anti-Semitic commentary, and I'm warning you again.

Who is it this time? The former UK ambassador's personal website? GlobalResearch.ca? Go screw yourself, I've had enough of you and your thread diversions when you dont care for the way the discussion is flowing.

Never mind unionist, North Report, because conspiracy is what the USSA is dealing in with respect to 9/11. If unionist can point us to any proof whatsoever that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed "masterminded" 9/11, and other than his "confession" tortured out of him after five years in the gulag, then we might consider to cease referring to that truckload of nonsense as US-sponsored conspiracy theory in the same vein. We get all kinds of cranks around here, and you'll just have to learn to tolerate them.

I know that is why I left for 2 months. I got tired of being called an anti-semite(theres one under every bed doncha know) because I don't believe the "official" report on 9/11.

Because if you don't belive the official report=hate jews. Great math.

All this regardless of any and all facts presented in the face of the official story.

A guy called into cross conservative check up talking about Oboma and how the americans will wind up in a vietnam like situation given the rhetoric being thrown about. Of course Murphy called him a kook and hung up on him.

Mon, 2009-02-23 00:50

#88

Fidel

I think we have to be aware that technically, 9-11 truth is often referred to as conspiracy theory every bit as much as 9-11 Commission report is by Truthers. I have no desire to centre out any ethnic group for pinning blame to. I think blaming Jews for things going wrong must date back to at least the Spanish inquisition. And now it looks to me like we have the American inquisition, as Michel Chossudovsky describes it.

In the words of Monthy Python:

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise....

Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency....

Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope....

Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry... are such elements as fear, surprise....

I'll come in again." (Monthy Python, The Spanish Inquisition)

Mon, 2009-02-23 01:16

#89

Fidel

Unionist wrote:
Well thorin, I'm sorry you left, and I have no idea who called you an anti-Semite. I personally called one of Fidel's linked 9/11 conspiracy sites anti-Semitic, because of:
[url=http://www.prisonplanet.com/tips-to-fbi-about-suspicious-activity-on-the...

and

[url=http://www.prisonplanet.com/jewish-terrorist-document-found.html#comment...

and

[url=http://www.prisonplanet.com/flashback-uk-killed-over-10-million-indians-...

and

[url=http://www.prisonplanet.com/flashback-uk-killed-over-10-million-indians-...

and hundreds of other neo-Nazi anti-Semitic racist "comments" of this nature.

For starters, YOU are the only one linking to prisonplanet in this thread.

Quote:
So don't get too upset when you see the word "anti-Semitic". No one in this thread called anyone anti-Semitic. Fidel, who tends to swallow 9/11 stuff whole,

So by virtue of your swalling the phony-baloney 9/11 Commish report, do you realize just how much of the American inquisition's so-called evidence was extracted by torture? In case you didnt realize it, confessions extracted under torture dont hold up in any real criminal court of law. At least none that I'm aware of outside of Gitmo, that hell on earth place you said Obama has realized is "chock full of terrorists" Now we know, unionist. KSM their alleged 9/11 "mastermind" is the most recent patsy and who actually denied having anything to do with 9/11 for five years before losing his will to live for the torture.

Did you even READ what former UK ambassador Craig Murray had to say about the gladio-style propaganda campaign wrt the shampoo bombers? For Christ's sake, unionist, is there a discretionary bone in your little body, or do you always swallow whole whatever it is Yanquis are serving? If I EVER become the slavish devotee that you are to the two old line party lap dogs and their US masters, just take me out b'hind the shed and pull the trigger, please!

Mon, 2009-02-23 04:44

#90

Fidel

unionist wrote:
didn't stop to check out a couple of his links (prisonplant, propagandamatrix), which appear to feature comments about how the Jews trick the Christians and run the world. I'm quite sure neither you nor Fidel would tolerate such comments for two seconds.

The PrisonPlanet.com link is gone as of days ago. But that's okay, there are more perfectly good links to legit web sites discussing the same story, like this one: [url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=4251][color=red][u... Liquid Bomb Plot Credibility Crumbles[/u][/color][/url] What, no comment? Well that's to be expected.

And if you CONTINUE to harass and harangue with your feeble attempts to smear me with anti-semitic labels, I WILL complain to the moderators. Youve derailed more than one thread with your child-like rants in recent weeks. If you dont like the conversation, just raise hell is unionist's way.

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10144][color=red][... and the "American Inquisition"[/u][/b][/color][/url]

I agree with Libby Davies' motion for Ottawa to press for a legit 9/11 enquiry. Why? Because our stooges in Ottawa are also using 9/11 as the reason for volunteering thousands of Canadian troops to a war on poor people in Afghanistan. It is a phony war, and a deniable war on terror.

And I think rabblers should declare this site a conspiracy-free forum in the sense that we should not be supporting the American inquisition's trumped up allegations and slip-shod report concerning 9/11. I refuse to support Uncle Sam and the shadow gov or their kangaroo court military trials. We still dont fully know who or what groups were behind 9/11 terrorist attacks, and it looks bad on a government that refuses to produce the evidence and fess up to having aided and abetted "al Qa'eda" and associated militant Islamic groups well after 1992, which is the time frame the CIA gives for supposedly severing covert ties with al Qa'eda and fundamentalist groups in Central Asia and Balkans.

Most babblers already refuse to support their phony war on terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Pakistan. So why should we support their contrived "blowback" theories regarding 9/11, the very pretext being used to justify this ongoing phony war and American inquisition?

Mon, 2009-02-23 07:44

#91

Slumberjack

Even sites like cbcnews.ca, ctvnews.ca and informationclearinghouse contains explicit hate material in their comments section. In weighing the value of any story itself against the vileness contained within the various reader comments, I think we could do without prisonplanet. None of their info is worth being subjected to the ideology of it's readers.

Mon, 2009-02-23 12:30

#92

Unionist

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/02/23/explosion-children.html][color=... to Canada!" "Death to America!" - Crowd blames Canadians for deaths of 2 children in Afghanistan[/b][/color][/url]

Quote:

An angry crowd in Kandahar shouted "death to Canada" and "death to America" Monday after two children were killed in an explosion that protesters allege was caused by an unexploded shell left by Canadian troops.

Dozens of people protested outside the provincial council office in Kandahar City. The bodies of the two children were carted off to the gates of the Kandahar governor's guest house in Kandahar City Monday afternoon.

Mon, 2009-02-23 14:22

#93

Fidel

Liquid Bomb Pakistan Link Is False Flag Smoking Gun

Veracity of liquid explosives method also put under dubious doubt

Quote:

Revelations concerning the origins and connections of the alleged liquid bomb terror plot to Pakistan and the 7/7 bombings in London provide a strong indication that the operation, known for months yet deliberately timed for public release, was a synthetic ruse concocted by the Bush/Blair cabal to re-package the flagging war on terror.

Media reports in the days following the alert cite Pakistan's ISI as having identified Rashid Rauf as, "the link between the plot's planners and British-based Muslims who were allegedly preparing to carry out attacks on transatlantic flights."

According to former NSA official Wayne Madsen, the Lashkar-e-Toiba terror group, to which Rashid Rauf is affiliated, is wholly operated and funded by the Pakistani ISI.

The Pakistani ISI is a CIA front and controls terror cells at the discretion of the highest levels of the US military-industrial complex. This means that the potential mastermind of the liquid bomb plot, Rashid Rauf (pictured), was operating under the oversight and direction of Pakistani and by proxy American intelligence agencies.

[url=http://propagandamatrix.com/articles/august2006/160806terrorpropaganda.h... British Ambassador Says [color=red]Terror Alert Is "Propaganda"[/color][/url]
Indians say group linked to liquid bombers controlled by Pakistan's ISI

Quote:

Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan Craig Murray says the alleged transatlantic liquid bomb plot is staged-managed propaganda on behalf of Bush and Blair - who yearn for a "new 9/11" to absolve them of domestic political trouble. . .

"None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn't be a plane bomber for quite some time," says Murray

Mon, 2009-02-23 14:24

#94

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Slumberjack wrote:
Even sites like cbcnews.ca, ctvnews.ca and informationclearinghouse contains explicit hate material in their comments section.

Exactly.

Do I now have to wade through 290 comments to make sure none of them are objectionable before I'm allowed by the links police to post a link to the article?

Mon, 2009-02-23 14:49

#95

Unionist

M. Spector wrote:
Do I now have to wade through 290 comments to make sure none of them are objectionable before I'm allowed by the links police to post a link to the article?

Excuse me, but you obviously didn't look at the site in question, which has large numbers of highly detailed "Protocols" type anti-Semitic diatribes, obviously making no effort to monitor them. This particular conspiracy site obviously is a conscious gathering place for these kinds of looneytunes. Comparing this to CBC or CTV is ridiculous.

As for the "links police", I have every right to condemn anti-Semitic or any other site I please, and to call on self-styled progressive people to not link to them. If you have a problem with my freedom in this respect, that's kind of too bad. Perhaps, instead, you could join with me in helping to keep these threads - which some of us have tried to reserve for Afghanistan news for years now - diversion and conspiracy-free.

Mon, 2009-02-23 14:52

#96

Fidel

Unionist wrote:
Fidel wrote:

unionist wrote:
didn't stop to check out a couple of his links (prisonplant, propagandamatrix), which appear to feature comments about how the Jews trick the Christians and run the world. I'm quite sure neither you nor Fidel would tolerate such comments for two seconds.

The PrisonPlanet.com link is gone as of days ago.

Not really, Fidel - there's still one [url=http://rabble.ca/comment/990255/Liquid-Bomb-Pakistan-Link][color=red]in your post here, upthread, under the name of "Wayne Madsen"[/color][/url]. Delete it please, and I will delete my other examples of anti-Semitic filth from that same site.

Did you read [url=http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?action=register][color=red][b]Pr...'s disclaimer[/b][/color][/url]? They explain how they dont have time to police every anonymous message posted to their web site. Can you point us to an actual news article on their web site that is hateful or promotes anti-semitism? Or are you going to carry on with this witchhunt until all "un-American" and shoestring budget anti-your personal point of view web sites are blacklisted from babble? Because if that's anything to go by, I think CBC.ca forums are a haven for rightwing psychotics posting bigoted and hateful comments there, too. I'm a regular babbler for a long time, and I'm really beginning to dislike you and all the thread diversionary bullshit you post here.

Mon, 2009-02-23 14:52

#97

Unionist

thorin_bane wrote:

I know that is why I left for 2 months. I got tired of being called an anti-semite(theres one under every bed doncha know) because I don't believe the "official" report on 9/11.

Because if you don't belive the official report=hate jews. Great math.

[post deleted - thank you, Fidel, for deleting that earlier link]

Mon, 2009-02-23 14:53

#98

Unionist

Fidel wrote:
For starters, YOU are the only one linking to prisonplanet in this thread.

[post deleted - thank you, Fidel, for deleting that earlier prisonplanet link]

Mon, 2009-02-23 14:54

#99

Unionist

Fidel wrote:

Yes, North Report, we still have a few babblers who fully believe everything the CIA has relayed to them about Afghanistan and Central Asia by way of Reader's Digest, CNN, Foxy News and Toronto Star since about 1979 or so.

[post deleted - thank you, Fidel, for deleting that earlier link]

Mon, 2009-02-23 14:55

#100

Unionist

Fidel wrote:

unionist wrote:
didn't stop to check out a couple of his links (prisonplant, propagandamatrix), which appear to feature comments about how the Jews trick the Christians and run the world. I'm quite sure neither you nor Fidel would tolerate such comments for two seconds.

The PrisonPlanet.com link is gone as of days ago.

Not really, Fidel - there's still one [url=http://rabble.ca/comment/990255/Liquid-Bomb-Pakistan-Link][color=red]in your post here, upthread, under the name of "Wayne Madsen"[/color][/url]. Delete it please, and I will delete my other examples of anti-Semitic filth from that same site.

ETA: Thank you, Fidel, for deleting that prisonplanet link at 2:22 pm today. I appreciate it.

Mon, 2009-02-23 14:57

#101

Unionist

Fidel, I see that you edited out the PrisonPlanet.com link at 2:22 pm today. I appreciate it, thanks very much. I've gone back and deleted my examples of filth from that site. Hopefully thorin_bane will drop by and edit his post as well.

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