ONDP Leadership thread - discuss, debate, post news here!

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wage zombie

synthome wrote:

I'd still be interested in reading how you ideologically and pragmatically distinguish your position from that of neoliberalism. How is your economics to be contrasted from the McGuinty Liberals? You see I can live with Tabuns labour history, with what I consider Prue's unethicality, Bisson's and Andrea's complete inability to leave an impression on me as leadership material. What I can't live with is the wholesale abandonment, even in pretense, of  the left. Advocating neoliberalism for me is the mother of all dealbreakers for the NDP.

So it's Tabuns, Prue, Bisson, and Andrea, eh?  Huh. 


Stockholm wrote:
If Prue actually does make a "big announcement" today when the news cycle is going to be 100% dominated by Obama's visit and any coverage of his announcement would be obliterated - then it would only tell me that his handlers have never taken "Media Relations 101".

It might be the email that just came out, with a bunch of Municipal endorsements for Prue, including (and this was a surprise for me) Alan Redway, the former Tory Housing Minister.  Has he joined the NDP?  I know some other former Red Tories who have voted for us in the past few elections, but not joined the party or anything.

Not sure if folks here already covered the ground of the Ottawa leadership debate from the other week, but Prue really turned me off there by losing his temper and making a really nasty snap at a couple of the other candidates for not leaving him enough time to respond.  I fast-forwarded to a leaders' debate during a campaign and could not imagine him there.  Howarth also lost me when making an accusation of sexism against another candidate, which didn't really fit, but then I wondered if she was trying to make a joke that fell flat.  It seems like the 4 of them have spent too much time together and that hard feelings have ensued, which is truly unfortunate given the small size of our caucus.

Except for Bisson, none of them speak french terribly well, and even though everyone promised to do better, a few days later emails still arrived from their campaigns in English-only.

I really didn't know any of the candidates before the debate, but left believing that Tabuns was the only one who looked at all like a premier and had the sort of big-picture strategic sense required to pull our provincial party out of the dumps.


feel free to preen all you want, synth.

when you can tell me what your vision of a post-capitalist world looks like, smells like, tastes like and feels like, whether i can have fun in it, get laid in it, get hammered in it, dance in it and laugh in it, maybe you'll have some credibility when you expound about that non-vacuous, non-empty left the candidate you shill for has been keeping all to himself all this time.

and i don't recall ever advocating that working men and women cede their rights to withdraw their labour, so why you keep nattering on about it is a mystery to me.


wage zombie: actually it's Tabuns alone, after that you might as well put McGuinty on the ballot and get an experienced Liberal leading the New Doomacratic Party. Just kidding, sort of.

alphasix: Yes engaging in a discussion around our core ideological values is totally pointless, especially during the lead up to choosing a new leader of and direction for the party. I can't think of a worse time to reflect on what it means to be the NDP and how we want to redefine ourselves vis a vis the left and or capitalism. Evidently, all that matters is growth and electoral success. I've previously made the following suggestion facetiously, but I'm starting to reconsider. Other than some masochistic attachment to failure, why not become the "not really left but in a bit more of a hurry" flank of the Liberal Party? Because quips alphasix Prue could become the next Premier of Ontario, that's why.

That fairy tale is only outdone by the bizarro world "benevolent capitalism" one. I remember an eccentric professor once puzzled by the sudden interest in "virtual reality". "Virtual reality", he said, "what other kind is there?" To paraphrase, Exploitative capitalism, what other kind is there? 

My advocacy of "socialism" is neither parodic, not rhetorical. I believe it to the very core of my understanding. Lastly, the issue of being in or out of touch with reality. This, of course, presupposes one version of reality and incidentally and amazingly it's your version that happens to be incontrovertible. On the contrary, I like to presuppose multiple realities, contested realities, often leading to, you'll like this word, hegemonic realities, but realities nonetheless. And yes, all virtual.

Whatever the results, love them or hate them, I will respect the will of the membership and won't question the legality and legitimacy of the new leadership. I've prattled on far too long. I've said my piece. Now I'll go away.  Stop applauding, I can hear you...



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