MP Dawn Black Ready to Jump To BC Provincial Politics?

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Fidel

You must agree that the NDP dropped the ball on Afghanistan during the last election. This could have been their issue to win over the people of Canada however it did not receive any attention.

The people just do not believe in the party at this time for various reasons. You can not blame any other parties expect for the NDP themselves.

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

Ahh bullshit, you can not blame other parties and organizations for the NDP faults and weakness.

The NDP currently has more funds than the Liberals, they are in control of several provinces and Jack Layton is seen as a better leader than most other party leaders.

Yet during the last election their platform was weak, they did not focus on the issues. This is way they lose the election.

They made another blunder when dealing with the Liberal and the short lived and painful coalition.

______________________________________________________________________________________________ We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.

Admit it, webgear, you love our two colonial administrative parties because they pull out all the stops when kissing uncle sam's fat derriere. Nobody grovels better, isnt that right, webgear. What's it going to be like when you leave the army and have no one giving you marching orders sent direct from Warshington?

You mean you look forward to the day when you wont have to take orders from Uncle Sam via their colonial administrators in Ottawa. I thought so. I certainly couldnt do it in the meantime though. I'd keep thinking I was a pawn for US interests, a mere errand boy sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill and all that. Luck to you in getting your degree. And remember that among other things, a degree is proof to yourself that youve learned how to learn. 

KenS wrote:

I believe every public statement he has made since has been consistent with the resolution and party policy.

With "party policy" - yes, Dawn Black's policy.

With "the resolution" of convention - certainly not, Ken.

[url=http://www.novanewsnow.com/article-i118487-Popular-MP-Peter-Stoffer-visi... of many examples[/color][/url], this one from July 2007:

Quote:

Stoffer supports Canadian participation in Afghanistan, but in a more development-focused role. “When they are over there, they need our unqualified support.”

At the same time, there has to be dialogue among all the combatant groups. “It is a long, long process.”

As well, there are other priorities – such as Darfur – on the horizon, he said.

Stoffer said that Canadian troops should be doing what they had been doing so well in the past with peacekeeping.

He pointed out, however, that peacekeepers have to be fully combat trained and equipped to effectively perform their duties. And they need to be given legal room to do them.

Dawn Black's briefing notes.

If Peter Stoffer were defence critic, he would return to his natural inclinations, like [url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2002/01/28/debate020128.html][color=red]when he used to be defence critic[/color][/url].

Check that Jan. 2002 piece. Alexa had already staked out a pretty good position as leader in the October Commons debates. Svend is raising vital issues of the death penalty and international law. The BQ's Suzanne Tremblay is condemning the U.S. for treating prisoners worse than animals.

And Peter???????

He is somewhere to the right of Elsie Wayne, as the two of them are interviewed [url=http://www.cbc.ca/clips/rm-newsworld/benmergui_wayne-stoffer020129.rm][c..., on the same page[/color][/url].

You're right, Ken, about not doing cardboard cut-outs. But it's vital to recognize that the NDP has two policies on Afghanistan - one of the convention, one of Dawn Black - and most MPs, including the leader, range between the two. 

Michael Byers is telling Dawn Black what to say? Wow, imagine if he had been elected and actually were in the caucus! One reason I left the (provincial) NDP was the NDP government's blithe disregard of convention resolutions, and indeed of the convention process. I'm sorry to hear they've now regressed to taking direction from  some academic who can't even win an election.

As for Dawn Black, I don't know whether she's the author of the ideas that she puts forth. All I know is that she has been absolutely unwaveringly consistent in her refusal to even mouthe lip service to complete withdrawal of the troops. Jack has occasionally said it, but her, never. So it would be very unfortunate if she's just a mouthpiece.

Webgear wrote:

Are you an obedient and completely loyal servant of the NDP? Have you ever gone against the party line or voice discontent against the party?

Who's telling Canadian soldiers they must go to the other side of the world and murder people in another country?

If I shoot someone to bloody death in Canada, what's supposed to happen as a result?

Why are Canadians in Afghanistan murdering Afghans?

None of you or three successive head stooges in Ottawa since 2002 have provided Canadians with a reasonable explanation to date. And never mind the hard questions, like who was actually responsible for perpetrating 9-11, the pretext for this phony war on terror.

I would never murder people in another country for the sake of party loyalty, and their brown-nosing loyalty to a US plutocracy. Iow's, I could never support either of the two old line parties. I would constantly disobey indirect orders from Warshington and be thrown out of the army for being a shit disturber incapable of being led around by my nose-hairs. And if those with higher than average aptitude find they cant rise higher on the military ladder, it's probably because their families arent well connected.

I haven't really commented on this one, but seeing as I live in New West, what the heck right? First of all, I have a comment about the last federal campaign. In New West Coquitlam Port Moody, the federal liberal vote for the most part swung to the conservative candidate. Kind of funny though, because of the Liberal Candidate (Michelle Hassan) and the Conservative candidate (Sen. Yonah Martin, or sorry, just plain Yonah, the Senatorship was a payoff for LOSING.) I thought that Michelle was the more likeable candidate. She was green (inexperienced, not the other green) and IMHO has way more upside than the Harperite Senator.

Now that all being said, from what I saw, the 2 opposition candidates got their clocks cleaned, particularly Yonah, by Dawn. And if she chooses to run provincially, the BC Liberal candidate will no doubt face the same energetic, charasmatic, take no bull Dawn that was on the federal trail a few months ago.

It does leave a hole for a federal by election. But V. Jara, why can't the NDP put forward someone truly outstanding, a person with a high profile, or the best possible person, period. Why in your opinion does it have to be a member of one of Vancouver's sizable minority communities. Me personally, being a party member, want the best person to win, regardless of the colour of their skin, their creed, their sexuality, their ability or lack of, or whatever else.  Its the members of the constituency that will decide who the candidate will be through the nomination process.

I think that the process itself is fair, in terms of candidate search parameters and reports. I have an idea of whats involved in the machinations of putting together a nomination process and meeting, and there has to be proof that people from all groups have been asked or consulted. If Dawn does run provincially, she'll be leaving big shoes to fill. Anyone care to play "pick the candidate"?

In terms of who might be running against the NDP federally, I wonder if Dawn leaves, will Forseth try to step up again, smelling an opportunity? Who knows.

I agree. Obviously, if i had to choose between a stellar candidate who was NOT a visible minority group member and someone very mediocre who happened to be - say - Chinese or Indo-Canadian, I would take the former. But ideally, there would be someone who is a fantastic candidate AND who can also help to make the NDP caucus more diverse and more reflective of Canada.

What is the ethnic makeup of New Westminster-Coquitlam? What are the major ethnicities?

"By way of comparison, the Federal NDP looks way out of touch with these communities. How many NDP MPs can speak Panjabi or a Chinese dialect?"

I can only speak to what I see. In the riding I live in federally (Burnaby New Westminster) and the events I've attended in support of my MP Peter Julian, and the 3 campaigns I've worked on with Peter, he has strong ties to the South Asian community, and other ethnic communities in his riding.They come out and support him in alot of ways and sometimes more so than his what you would call "traditional" constituency does.  In the riding next door to us (Dawn Black's riding) the Cons parachuted in a candidate in Yonah Martin, who pretty much ran expecting the full Korean community as a whole to back her entirely. It didn't. Just like every anglo in the riding didn't vote for Dawn.

Whats my point? Its simply this. The NDP whether provincial or federal is made up of different races, ethnicities, sexual preferences, working backgrounds, etc so on and so forth. And at the end of the day, its up to the members to select their candidates.  I would agree with Stockholm's assertion, but at the end of the day the members decide, such is democracy. You pay your $$$, you select your candidate.  For the record, in Surrey North, Rachid Arab won the nomination in the last federal election. I know thats but one example I can find, but thats why we have a nomination process.

Furthermore V. Jara, my experience with the NDP in the lower mainland is that whether its provincial or federal... they're all the same people. Take one hat off put another one on.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the Conservatives will throw everything they have at trying to win (back) that riding.

What will be interesting is if Elizabeth May decides to contest the by-election, as she has previously sort-of committed to do whenever a by-election comes up.  The Liberals also won a by-election once in the neighbouring riding when they were in government, but lost it badly in the subsequent general election.  They came third in New West this time, but Joyce Murray ran there the time before (now MP in Quadra), and Dave Haggard ran there for them the time before that (former IWA Pres, later ran against Libby in Van East).

Candidate search will be vital for the NDP, and should be done with an eye on the potential competition.  Who, do you suppose, the Conservatives might try to run, if not Forseth?  Is Forseth running likely, do you think?

Unionist, your remarks are ugly and unwarranted, Dawn Black's push for stalking laws perhaps saved my life and I have real issues with your nonsense.

Black has probably done damage to the NDP in her own riding. She won by a small margin and her jump to provincail politics will probably not be appreciated by many who worked to get her elected. New Westminster is a safe provincial NDP seat so it would have been better for a younger person to run.

[Edited so as to be less extreme and less all-encompassing:]

Her pressure on the Afghanistan issue won't be missed in the federal party.

I really don't think anyone is going to have an issue with her resigning to run provincially. It is a bit of a unique and unforseen circumstance with a popular incumbent having to retire due to having cancer.

Whatever one or two people on babble may think of her because she is only 99% as opposed to 100% against the Canadian role in Afghanistan - she is clearly an asset to the NDp in that riding. She managed to win twice after four straight elections where it went Tory. Hopefully, the NDP has some stealler people waiting in the wings to replace her and hold the seat.

Assuming the NDP has these stellar people, why is Dawn running provincially and creating the need for a by-election so soon after the general election?

If she is so sick of it, why did she run last October?

The BS in Victoria with the BC Liberals is worst.

. In the recent federal election, the NDP won both Burnaby seats and also Vancouver-Kingsway - all of which have gigantic Chinese populations

The NDP won Kingsway with 35% of the vote, which must be one of the lowest winning percentages of any riding in the country, despite benefiting from the Emerson affair which hurt both the Liberals and the Cons.I have no way of proving it, but I believe that the great majority of the Chinese vote went to the Cons or Liberals. I do know that the polls around "Little Chinatown" at 41st and Victoria are very weak for the NDP, both federally and provincially, and the shops in that area are festooned with Con and Liberal posters during campaigns.

Bunaby-Douglas was won with 38%. Burnaby-New West was won with 46.5%, but remember that New Westminster is a long-time NDP stronghold. Certainly credit must be given to Svend Robinson, Bill Siksay, and Peter Julian for outreach efforts which I'm sure have had some success with the Chinese community. But I still think most of them vote Liberal or Con.

RIchmond, which probably has the highest percentage of Chinese population of any riding in the country, is a complete dead zone for the NDP both federally and provincially. 

As for the downtown Toronto ridings, the Chinese voters there are no more typical of the Chinese voters in the GTA than any ethnic voters, or Anglo voters for that matter, in those ridings are typical of the GTA.

By that logic, one could argue that NDP support among Jewish voters and Italian Canadians is "practically zero" based on their showings in Thornhill and Vaughan.

Stockholm wrote:

As for Dawn Black, I think that apart from the fact that by running provincially she has a very good chance of becoming a senior cabinet minister in a Carol James government, the fact is that being a federal MP from BC is very grueling. She is probably in her 60s and flying back and forth between Ottawa and Vancouver 100 times a year is very tiring and probably means having almost no personal life whatsoever. I think she's probably making a good decision. Considering how close the race was in NWC in October, its lucky that she ran for reelection because without her running as incumbent, it probably would have been another Surrey North-type loss.

 Those are some of the reasons - Dawn also has several young grandchildren that she'd like to spend more time with.  I don't think the Ottawa-Vancouver flights are much of an issue, Dawn is a very strong person with lots of stamina, and had Puckmayr (sp?) run again provincially, I'm sure Dawn would have served her full term and perhaps even have run again federally.  It's a unique combination of events and Dawn was in the right spot at the right time to go provincial. 

I also think Dawn is much more likely to be a candidate for the next BC NDP leadership race than to be a Cabinet Minister after May 12 - the latest BC polls have the BC Libs with a double-digit lead over James and the NDP.  The economy is the dominant issue and Carole has not put forward any clear policies, nobody cares about the carbon tax with gas prices way down from the summer of 2008, etc.  The moderate, centrist wing of the BC NDP will likely want Dawn to run for leader to counter Adrian Dix who is closer to the Clark/Sihota labour wing of the party, IMHO. 

West Coast Lefty wrote:

I also think Dawn is much more likely to be a candidate for the next BC NDP leadership race than to be a Cabinet Minister after May 12.... 

Interesting to hear that WCL, because the thought had occurred to me, but I'm way out of touch with things in BC these days.  I think Dawn would make a wonderful premier (first woman to lead a large province, if you don't count the Rita Johnson hiccup ... plus there was Nellie Cournoyea in NWY and Catherine Callbeck in PEI).  Nice thought for IWW!

ETA:  Of course, I don't have much of a feel for Carole James, either, so this wasn't intended to be a comment on her leadership.