Patrick Kinsella, CN and BC Rail with ties that bind to Gordon Campbell

96 posts / 0 new

Fri, 2009-03-13 16:06

remind

Yesterday was a huge day in the CN BC Rail pre-trial, with Justice Elizabeth Bennett throwing a new name into the allowable court proceedings, Patrick Kinsella, Gordo's top advisor.

Apparently, emails have been entered into evidence that have a BC Rail employee emailing the government and asking why they had Patrick Kinsella on their payroll. The response given was, "he is Liberal backroom". It seems he was getting paid 4k a month from BC Rail to do nothing, or at least nothing that BC Rail was aware of and this was during the time of the sale proceedings.

Here is a link to the Province article, and a snippet from it, however they buried details that have been reported elsewhere, like the email.

Quote:

Patrick Kinsella, a friend of Premier Gordon Campbell and one of the most powerful stringpullers in the B.C. Liberal party, has made a killing on government contracts since guiding his pals to power in 2001.

Kinsella was co-chairman of the Liberal election campaign that year. He was a top Liberal strategist again in 2005 when Campbell was re-elected.

When he wasn't running Liberal election campaigns, Kinsella was busy running a lucrative business as a government-relations consultant. His speciality: helping corporate clients like Accenture and Alcan bag juicy contracts with the Campbell government.

Now it turns out even Crown corporations were hiring Kinsella — including nearly $300,000 in deals with B.C. Rail that touched off a firestorm at the legislature yesterday.

B.C. Rail paid the money to Kinsella's companies starting in 2002 — about the same time the Campbell government was planning to privatize the publicly owned railroad.

Justice Elizabeth Bennett is to rule today on yet another defence request for more government documents.

Here is another link to a blog about it all

Fri, 2009-03-13 16:33

remind

Found another blog that seems to be a good clearing house on links to happening events around the last day or 2.

Quote:
There are two fantastic pieces out today concerning this latest political hotbed of Whose on First, and if you want to get some insight into the kind of men in charge of this province, you better go off and read them both. Now.

First up is the Gazetteer. Here you will find every detail, including Youtube video footage of the premier dodging the question again, in a way thats becoming his signature style. Could he be getting a little worried it is not going to be him welcoming the world during 2010 next year? See for yourself at this link:

http://pacificgazette.blogspot.com/ scroll down to the Youtube link from yesterday.

And Vaughn Palmer stunned all of us with this piece today,

Public Policy has some stuff on it too, including Kinsella's response as to why he was paid.

Fri, 2009-03-13 16:42

remind

Oh, the backgrounder article to the Kinsella, can be found through the Vaugn Palmer blog link above, which is where I found it. But I will quote a bit from it.

Quote:
Actually they don't, I advised him. The documents were not obtained from the court.

"How do you know that?" Oppal challenged. "You don't know that any better than I do."

The documents were routine filings by BC Rail under the Financial Information Act. They were gathering dust on a shelf in the legislature library when the NDP researchers located them.

But Oppal wasn't about to fall for that dodge. They might be "ancillary documents," linked to the court proceedings in ways we'd never suspect. "I don't necessarily trust those people."

These socialists are perfect devils, always trying to trap a fellow. "If it is unrelated to the trial, then why are they making the allegations in the house?"

He had a point. The New Democrats did try to link Kinsella to the sale of the BC Rail assets.

So, apparently the documents were not before the courts at that time of the Oppal interview, and the Justice yesterday, herself brought Kinsella's name into it and thus the new request by the prosecution for more government documents to be obtained, as presumably they mean these documents that the NDP researchers found. As such I was wrong above, the documents did not get originally exposed from the court, NDP researchers found them, and then the Justice brought Kinsella's name up yesterday.

Fri, 2009-03-13 19:06

Unionist

I've never followed this story, and I don't really know where to start. Is there a simple backgrounder somewhere? And I'm really intrigued by CN Rail's involvement. Why don't we hear more about that?

Fri, 2009-03-13 23:44

JackW

Tough to give a primer given all the tentacles.

After the current BC (neo)Liberal govt first came to power in 2001 they promised not to privatize the provincial railway (BC Railway)...by late 2003 they had essentially done so by selling almost the entire railbed, via a very long term lease (up to 990 years), to CNR.

Prior to the announcement of the deal most of the other bidders made noises about unfairness in the bidding process because, it turned out, CN was getting inside info that the others weren't.

Later, it turned out that one of those other bidders, US firm OmniTrax, used a local BC lobbying firm that 'allegedly' gave bribes to a couple of Ministerial aides for favours leading towards, perhaps, bids for a second chunk of railbed called the Roberts Bank Spur (to the coal port just South of Vancouver).

Turns out that this may have been way less straightforward than that, in that OmniTrax may have, according to the speculation of some (including local columnist Vaugnn Palmer), stayed in the original big chunk bidding to provide cover for CN so that they could then have the inside track on the Spur....A so-called 'Quid Pro Quo'.

Additionally, as more information has leaked out, it has become clear that there was a concerted government-driven (dis?)information campaign to sway public opinion in the run-up to the sale which followed a 'core-review' from the gov't that made the case that the public BC Rail was financially non-viable (due to big, bad terrible, awful debt and deficits, etc) and thus just had to be privatized for our own good.

So, the thing that makes Mr. Patrick Kinsella's involvement in helping BC Rail 'understand/come to terms with' the results of that core review so interesting is the fact that he was the main architect of the neoLibs election victory in 2001 (before the privatization) and 2005 (after the privatization). In fact, some have dubbed him Lotusland's current Rainmaker.

The best place to get a good feel for this thing is here.

I quite often write about new developments in the story here.

Fri, 2009-03-13 23:54

Unionist

Thank you! I have some reading to do.

Sat, 2009-03-14 12:29

JackW

You're welcome.

I forgot to mention the issue of 'media monitoring', which many have called 'dirty tricks', that went on at the time and which may still be happening now.

Sat, 2009-03-14 13:00

munroe

The Kinsella connection is fascinating and could be the `glue`that the NDP needs to tie Liberal corruption together during this election campaign. The so-called `core review`process was actually a farce and a cover for all kinds of privatising and out-sourcing. It was supposed to be a series of internal reviews of Ministries and Crown Corporations to determine their `core`programmes and to identify `efficiencies`. For BCR to pay Kinsella nearly $300K to facilitate in the process in many ways defeated the very idea of it being an internal review.

Just as fascinating is the Government`s claim after the review that one finding was that BCR should NOT be sold or privatised. For a long period they continued to claim that the lease to CN (for 60 years and renewable for up to 990!) was not a privatisation. It was nonsense and no one in their right mind buys that bullshit anymore. If I was to speculate, my guess would be that this leasing scheme has Kinsella`s fingerprints all over it. I can see he and Gordo conspiring to find a way to privatise while pretending not to - given the Liberal solemn promise (when Kinsella was running the election campaign) not to sell BC Rail.

Pigs at the trough and scheming, mud wallowing pigs at that!

Just an aside of the `core reviews`. It took place while we were in litigation with the BC Lottery Corporation. About 2 dozen warehouse workers wanted a union (it is wall to wall non-union). At one point, BCLC laid off one of the key Union supporters (two others `retired`). Their explanation at the LRB was that the layoff was necessary as the position was found unnecessary during the core review. The worker was a casual earning about $14 an hour. The CEO was the top paid bureaucrat in the Province. Imagine, after a full review of a multi billion dollar corporation, what was revealed was that they employed one casual too many! Yes, we won the unfair labour practice complaint.

BTW - BCLC spent about $400,000 in legal fees over the two years of litigation. They finally orchestrated a decert by withholding bonuses on the grounds they were at the table. This was after BCLC hired six new casuals.

Ever wonder why I don`t buy lottery tickets!

Sat, 2009-03-14 14:08

remind

Yes, when you googlr Kinsella, this incident with BC Lotto comes up.

I have been looking for the report that came out right after the BC Rail privatization, where it showed that there would be a net loss of revenue actually from the "sale", of about 44 million per year, but I cannot find it now.

Does anyone else still have access to that report?

Sat, 2009-03-14 14:14

#10

Treetop

[quote=JackW]

After the current BC (neo)Liberal govt first came to power in 2001 they promised not to privatize the provincial railway (BC Railway)...

I believe it was an election promise.

Sat, 2009-03-14 14:21

#11

JackW

TreeTop--

Yes, it most certainly was, which is why there was such a concerted PR/Deflector spin campaign that went on over the ensuing 3 years in the run-up to the deal.

It was during that that campaign that the alleged dirty tricking went down.

Sat, 2009-03-14 15:04

#12

Treetop

The government was also desperate to make the bidding process look like a fair one, when most parties involved were crying fowl.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/fp/documents+reveal+complaints+about+fairness+before+Rail+sale+announced/1362804/story.html

"Newly disclosed government documents from the Basi-Virk corruption trial reveal that the B.C. Liberal cabinet decided Oct. 1, 2003 that CN Rail was the winning bidder of the $1-billion privatization sale of BC Rail.

The controversial decision wasn’t made public until 55 days later, on Nov. 25, 2003.

But before then, other bidders were already upset about the fairness of the process, the documents reveal."

It also seems the government had it's dirty little hands all over a report commisioned by an independant third party, which ultimately came out exonerating the BCL's of any wrongdoing with regard to the fairness of the bidding process.

http://www.straight.com/article-205449/railselloff-report-riles-ndp?rotator=1

NDP Nanaimo MLA Leonard Krog has even suggested that the report rendered by the Boston-based Charles River Associates may have been modified by the government.

“You’re doing a report to tell the world that the government is fair, and then you give it to them to look at, to potentially change it,” Krog told the Georgia Straight, referring to two e-mails between CRA and government staff prior to the release of the fairness report."

"In one e-mail dated December 2, 2003, a CRA staffer, Ammon Matsuda, provided government staffer Yvette Wells the “latest draft of the final report, along with two confidential appendices for the Province’s eyes only”.

“We will continue to revise and edit the report as appropriate, and we appreciate any feedback from you and other involved individuals,” Matsuda told Wells, then one of the advisers to a committee evaluating the restructuring of B.C. Rail."

Sat, 2009-03-14 17:06

#13

remind

And yet, the broadcast media to outlaying BC regions remains pretty much silent on this, as such they are complicit in Gordo et all getting away with this, especially that yak, Baldry. He should be picketed.

Compare the silence on this and the yammering over the alleged "deck".

Sun, 2009-03-15 01:47

#14

Brian White

Originally by Remind."As such I was wrong above, the documents did not get originally exposed from the court, NDP researchers found them, and then the Justice brought Kinsella's name up yesterday"

The NDP lost their party status (and money for research) when they were knocked down to 2 mla's a couple of elections ago. They would NEVER have suffered such a massive setback under the STV pro rep system. It is impossible! And with 15 or 20 NDP mla's in the house (instead of 2) to raise a stink, could the BC Libs have got away with this for so so long?

Remember this is just one aspect of the raids on the ledge! There were the linked grow ops up island, a police officer suspended in victoria, an alledged biker link with pot for coke on a pound for pound basis, land taken out of the alr in sooke (700 houses were built on that land!), paul martins election as liberal leader. (The "Basi boys" and "instant" members of the federal liberal party helped oust sitting mp herb daliwal as part of that campaign).

It is an incredible level of corruption and I am sure i missed some of it.

And the ndp had 2 mla's and no party status and no research moneys!

Could such a giant tangled web have been constructed if the NDP had 20 MLA's? I do not think so.

Not only was it constructed, it stayed up for many years!

Sun, 2009-03-15 02:40

#15

keglerdave

Oh come on now. Give me a break. Using this Forum to argue for Sexually Transmitted Voting. BARF!! Has anyone at all, asked themselves why Gordo even broached changing the voting system in BC? Anyone at all? Why would a crass individual such as Premier Perfect want to even broach proportional representation? And why do all the dupes go for it like fish to bait? Well, as a matter of fact, one has to do exactly with the other.

Its all about distraction. Get the people talking about the electoral system in BC while you plunder and pillage, lie and deceive, manipulate and use. And people like Brian and others play right into it time and time again.

Here's a fav question I see on here, excusing wanting to change something that is not really broken, namely our electoral system:

"And with 15 or 20 NDP mla's in the house (instead of 2) to raise a stink, could the BC Libs have got away with this for so so long?"

The answer to that question is YES. Why is that. Well when the media is in the government's corner and not reporting a single thing going on in Victoria, you could have maximum opposition, and the word still wouldn't go out. One only needs to look at the past 4 years. Or what the hell, the past 8 years. We have a railway sold off that wasn't supposed to be, hydro broken up into pieces, ferries built offshore, attacks on working people, ministers of the crown tipping off fish farms before getting inspected, a premier convicted of drunk driving, a convention centre so grossly over budget that it makes the fast ferries look like a good bargain, the worst child poverty rates in Canada, and on and on and on, and who's been reporting about it? Canworst Gliberal??? CTV??? Nope.

The average BC'er has absolutely no idea how they've been taken for a ride by this merry lot. $300,000 to kinsella to facilitate a deal that was crooked from the get go? That could be called chump change. Aside from Tieleman and Mike Smyth, who else has picked up on this story and ran with it? People are more concerned with getting shot on the streets than a corrupt bunch of idiots in victoria. The media in BC has given Carte Blanche to Campbell and his gang to screw us silly....... and some of us are still touting that STV is the issue this campaign.

Oh my. What a province we live in.

Sun, 2009-03-15 10:41

#16

chuckstraight

Campbell in opposition was a relentless Calvinist, ruthless in his hellfire condemnation of those failing his moral standards. Campbell in power had even less time for the weak and misguided who disagreed with his mission. Now, his long-term survival requires more than his obvious contrition. It needs a seismic shift in personality: a display of the same compassion and empathy he's asking of the electorate.

Maybe it`s time to NOT elect this man?

Sun, 2009-03-15 10:46

#17

chuckstraight

Things British Columbia needs to know.

North Van's Grumps has left a new comment ... [to access the hyperlinks, please go to N.V.G.'s comment on the Robin Mathews report below. - BC Mary]

November 25th, 2003 was when the BC Liberal government made the annoucement that CN Rail had won the bid to take over BC Rail... but on November 20th, 2003 the union representing the workers of BC Rail had published their document which is still available at the BC Legislative Library, AND the links have been published here on BC Mary's blog already.

The library still holds the leaked document in its establishment dated May 2003, and here's the good part.... its not exactly like the BC Liberals can crow over the way the City of Vancouver managed to keep track, lost track, no pun intended, of their In-Camera documents just before their municipal election because the leaked document that CIBC was holding in trust for the BC Liberals had the same sort of layout on the cover stating: "COPY #______", was blank, the audit trail of possibly tracing who's document it was, is not known.

For all three documents at one spot: Just ask your local Librarian via the internet.

Posted by North Van's Grumps to The Legislature Raids at March 14, 2009

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
North Van's Grumps has provided a step-up for those who search for the inside story of how BC Rail, the publicly-owned railway, was selected, packaged, and offered up for sale. He sent this information as a comment. I thought it should be posted in a more prominent space and I hope that others who check into these documents, via N.V.G.'s hyperlinks, will come back to this spot with fresh comments of their own. Very special thanks to N.V.G. for this public service. - BC Mary.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Sun, 2009-03-15 11:29

#18

remind

Where is the link chuckstraight?

Sun, 2009-03-15 13:56

#19

Brian White

keglerdave wrote:

Oh come on now. Give me a break. Using this Forum to argue for Sexually Transmitted Voting. BARF!! Has anyone at all, asked themselves why Gordo even broached changing the voting system in BC? Anyone at all?

You know moronic jingo like "sexually transmitted voting" only appeals to thoughtless idiots? Campbell broached changing the voting system because the public would vote for him as a reformer. Remember? The NDP won with less votes than the BC Libs and carried on under Clarke as though they had won a massive majority in the popular vote. So he tapped into peoples sense of unfairness.

And THEN he installed the 60% threshold so that it would be almost impossible to change change the voting system. The last thing Campbell wants is a change.

If you havn't got that after all those years, well go figure!

And if you do not know the difference between an opposition of 2 with no money and an opposition of 20 with party status and research funds, well, you are not really up to date with how politics works, are you?

Sun, 2009-03-15 14:45

#20

Brian White

"The average BC'er has absolutely no idea how they've been taken for a ride by this merry lot. $300,000 to kinsella to facilitate a deal that was crooked from the get go? That could be called chump change. Aside from Tieleman and Mike Smyth, who else has picked up on this story and ran with it? People are more concerned with getting shot on the streets than a corrupt bunch of idiots in victoria. The media in BC has given Carte Blanche to Campbell and his gang to screw us silly....... and some of us are still touting that STV is the issue this campaign.
Oh my. What a province we live in".

Have you concidered becoming a reporter? I do not know if you have noticed, but the reason this story is running is because there is (finally) a court case. The average BC'er is intensely interested in this case and everyone in the media is reporting it and gutting the BC libs. It all goes back to the raids on the ledge and everyone is interested in the gossip.

The lawyers are having to fight like hell to get the documentation and figure out how much was going on. Reporters have been prevented from seeing the stuff for years. They have been trying. Sub judice and so fort have been used to prevent their freedom of info requests.

Do the NDP have improving freedom of info high up in their platform?

It might garner votes.

Will the carole james NDP bring in STV if it gets 55%? Absolutely not!.

But maybe ordinary people see 54% or 55% as a fair win (and 45% or 46% as a clear defeat).

Would Jack layton bring it in if it got 55%. Yes.

There IS a reason that the bc libs are still leading in the polls.

And it is a sad one. People are very cynical about the provincial NDP because of past and present failings. The party brass do not understand that putting forward policys that are popular and fair will get you votes.

They hope to quietly float to the top as the liberal poo storm sinks.

I think people need to see evidence that the NDP are more than floaters.

If they distanced themselves from 60% and let the liberals wear it, it would get them votes. You have an easier time protraying someone as corrupt if you are a bit cleaner yourself.

Sun, 2009-03-15 15:07

#21

NorthReport

Where is Gordo hiding Gary Collins now?

Last I heard Collins was running some airline industry company into the ground.

Sun, 2009-03-15 17:41

#22

munroe

I really, really hate when serious and significant issues get sidetracked by the question of how elections are decided. I can apprecite that proponents of change want a say and want to elevate the referendum, but please give it a break. Not every discussion of every issue in BC leads down this same path. In fact, it almost appears to be that STV or MMP proponents are blind and deaf to the real questions in this Province.

At one time I sympathised with electoral reform, but I now lean towards the Tielmann and Shreck analysis - mostly because of the disruptive postings by advocates on Boards such as this.

This thread is about Gordo, Kinsella, BCR and the rape of the public trust. Get it! If you want to speculate and comment on how it may have been different in a world that does not exist, then follow a thread on electoral reform and keep on track.

Geesh!!!!

Sun, 2009-03-15 18:09

#23

remind

munroe wrote:
I really, really hate when serious and significant issues get sidetracked by the question of how elections are decided. ..This thread is about Gordo, Kinsella, BCR and the rape of the public trust. Get it! If you want to speculate and comment on how it may have been different in a world that does not exist, then follow a thread on electoral reform and keep on track.

Exactly, this is aweful manipulation and basically stealling from BC peoples that the majority of the msm BC media is culpable byway of the non-reporting about it, orif they do minimizing it, as Baldry does everytime he opens his mouth.

Sun, 2009-03-15 18:46

#24

munroe

We get sidetracked too easily. BC is run by a gang of corporate thugs, maintained and under the mask of a MSM that are a part of the problem. There is a bit of daylight here on what that means that needs exposure. To confuse this with a secondary issue is very wrong.

It reminds me of the debate over the equity committments of the Party in nominations. AFTER it was decided, the knives came out. What nonsense and what a diversion from the real problems. The nomination procedure is proving that these provisons produce strong and capable candidates, worthy of everyone's support. I say to the detractors, live with it and see the strength it has endowed. What a coup it would be to form a government with gender balance for the first time in Canadian history.

The alternative, More BC Rails, more Kinsellas, more P3s, more lost collective agreements, less environmental protection, less education, less public healthcare, less of anything that makes our society better.

The enemy is not inside, it is very real and in power. Choose your side.

Mon, 2009-03-16 03:15

#25

Left Turn

munroe wrote:
What a coup it would be to form a government with gender balance for the first time in Canadian history.

Munroe, what would be a real coup would be to form a government that would actually undo the entirety of the BC Liberals legislative agenda from the past eight years. To elect a party that would actually challenge capitalist class power, and start the process of transcending capitalism.

Unfortunately, the BC NDP under Carole James is not proising even to undo the entirety of the BC Liberals legislative agenda. On the contrary, they are promising to maintain most of the BC Liberals agenda.

The BC NDP have bought the neo-liberal coolaid. While they still believe in solving some of the pressing problems in our society, they want to do so without challenging capitalist class power, in the hopes of avoiding capital strike. Unfortunately, it can't be done. To solve the pressing problems facing our society means challenging capitalist class power, and that causes capitalist strike. The key is to have a plan in place to mitigate the negative effects of capital strike upon poor and working British Columbians. Unfortunately, after the capital strike of the 1990s, and the crushing defeat in the MAY 2001 election, the BC NDP are too afraid of capital strike.

What's needed is a new party to the left of the BC NDP. This party will necessarily be an anti-capitalist party that challenges capitalist class power. This is the only way we can save humanity, and this planet, from the internal ecological contradictions within capitalism whereby the laws of motion of capitalism create an environmental catasrophy that will destroy not only capitalism, but very possibly all life on earth.

Hopefully, the new party will also be one that strives not just for gender parity in political nominations, but which also strives to emancipate women in all aspects of political, social, and economic life. The full emancipation of women, poc, and indiginous people, is absolutely crucial if we are to create a society which guarantees the free developement of each and every member of society.

The creation of such a new party is very unlikely to happen under the current electoral system. Changing the electoral system to some form of proportional representation is crucial if we are to build a new party to the left of the BC NDP. In this election we actually have the chance to vote for a political system that is far more proportional than the fptp system we currently use. Is BC-STV perfect? No, it's not perfect (In fact I'd argue that no electoral system is "perfect", especially in BC and Canada, due to the wide disparities in population between regions). However, I strongly belive that BC-STV is a lot better than the fptp system we currently have. Does BC-STV immediately solve all our electoral probelms? Again, no, but at least it offers an opening for politics to the left of the NDP.

Of course, if you think that sometimes electing the BC NDP to a majority government is a sufficient goal, then it's understandable why you would oppose BC-STV, given that the NDP would be almost guaranteed to never win a majority government under that system.

P.S. I don't know exactly where you stand in relation to the BC NDP. Even if you are not uncritical of the NDP, I know there are members of this discussion board who both oppose BC-STV, and are uncritical of the NDP, and that statement clearly applies to them.

Mon, 2009-03-16 03:44

#26

Brian White

Well, I read the papers ocasionally and the bc rail thing is big news. And If you bother to read my post, I wrote about the extent of the BC rail thing. (You didn't). It is tangled in with all the other stuff from the raids on collins office.

And I think they (the bad media) published a letter from me in vic at the time where I asked why collins did not get fired? when a truckload of paper was siezed from his office by the mounties.

I mean, how could he not know! It is really handy to blame the media for everything. But when I was into writing letters they often printed them.

Even when I wrote that paul martin wanted to gut his mp's and use them as glove puppets, they printed it.

A better thing to do is to offer solutions. What are the provincial NDP solutions? "We are purer?" No, buddy you are not. If you maintain a system that is wide open to corruption, you will get corruption!

We are all human. We will all fuck the other guy over if we have the power to do so. Thats human nature.

The NDP should be proposing solid policys to fix the systematic problems.

I do not see them.

All we will get is slightly more humane guys with their fingers in the till if we elect the NDP. That quite frankly might not be enough to bring poor people out to the voting booth.

Mon, 2009-03-16 11:40

#27

Brian White

I think the NDP will undo lots of what gordo has done. But they will not make the systematic changes needed to stop the next gordo doing the same thing.

Also, if the NDP gets 2 terms, without those systematic changes, we will get any amount of sweetheart deals in the second term.

Orwell wrote animal farm for a reason. The reason was so that us plebes would demand stronger standards from the lords and ladies (be they left or right wing).

Mon, 2009-03-16 11:46

#28

remind

What a bunch of lies left turn and Brian! How about you provide some back up to your assertations that the BCNDP is corrupt and will not undo what Gordo has done?

Mon, 2009-03-16 11:49

#29

remind

BS, the NDP has always done systematic changes, like with the ALR, however, corporate fascists appear to sit around and think about ways to get around it.

How about you focus on the moment Brian instead of now whining about 2 terms and no hypothetical "sweetheart deals" sometime in the future?

Besides you again are derailing this thread from its purpose to EXPOSE what the BC Liberals have done and are doing, take your shit to another thread please.

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:28

#30

Brian White

Munroe"It reminds me of the debate over the equity committments of the Party in nominations. AFTER it was decided, the knives came out. What nonsense and what a diversion from the real problems. The nomination procedure is proving that these provisons produce strong and capable candidates, worthy of everyone's support. I say to the detractors, live with it and see the strength it has endowed. What a coup it would be to form a government with gender balance for the first time in Canadian history".

Munroe, you know that with stv you can nominate half female and half male in every single riding?

And it will not cause even a tenth of the dissent that that James decree got.

The fact is we do not know why people vote more for men than for women. Lots of it is based on men getting nominated more than women but what if some of it isn't? What if most of it isn't?

What if a whole bunch of it is related to single member ridings? In single member ridings, group psychology may favour male winners. (Going back to tribal hunter gatherer times). But the NDP brass do not bother even thinking of that.

James jumps in with a theory that all you have to do is nominate 50% women and hey presto, 50% women winning in the ridings and NDP victory.

Instead of supporting a system which allows gender equality in nominations WITHOUT disadvantaging the party,

James is supporting SMP which has single member ridings. Single member ridings are known to favour males winning the nominations most of the time. So James decree will have no lasting effect.

Thats what I mean by systematic changes. To counter some of the unfairness that first past the post produces, James designates women only nominations in some ridings. So qualified males in those ridings get pissed off. So you got your woman candidate but no support services for her. Way to go!

Same about BC rail. Are the NDP formulating measures to prevent a reoccurance of it? I noticed that the other bidders were pissed off before the deal was officially done. Perhaps the NDP could have a complaints process going straight to a judge or the rcmp? (Or someone outside the bc political scene).

I think there are votes in this for the ndp but only if they offer real world solutions.

Mon, 2009-03-16 13:07

#31

Brian White

No, remind, the crooked shit that the BC Libs do has been exposed for years.

It has been documented for years too.

Well the ALR, the bc libs have found and used the flaws in that.

There are votes in the ndp doing a fix for that too. You might win an election if you stand at all the street corners crying "crooked bastard" but the odds are not that great.

You guys need to propose a modification to the ALR board process. How about some environmentalists on the alr board? And not nominated by the governing political party any more either?

And you cannot hide proposals away as goodies for the election campaign.

Write them out now. Publicise them now. Get feedback on them now.

Brian

Mon, 2009-03-16 13:26

#32

remind

they have been published where where have you been? and the way you talk is that there is no environmentalists in the NDP, ffs the NDP is full of them.

people do not readily know about what the BC Liberals have done, no matter how much you protest that they do! stop derailing this thread, as I am begining to think you are a BC Liberal in disguise.

Mon, 2009-03-16 17:24

#33

DrConway

Considering how the BC Libs went after Elizabeth Cull when she presided over the 1995 and 1996 budgets I find it quite amusingly ironic that the BC Libs are tryng to keep rat bastard Gary Collins from culpability in rigging the bids on the BC rail tracks.

Mon, 2009-03-16 17:48

#34

remind

Ya, they do hypocrisy well, eh!

Mon, 2009-03-16 19:10

#35

Brian White

"they have been published where where have you been?"

Ok, then, I got to search for them? Me and a million other voters?

You cannot hear constructive criticism because you do not listen. What is the SPECIFIC ndp fix for the ALR? So that it becomes immune from attack from ANY party. If you propose THAT fix, people will stop and think.

What is the SPECIFIC ndp fix for the rail scandal? No point in treating the symptoms. You got to go deeper and treat the disease. (Even if it means fewer perks for the incoming ndp government.)

"We are more honest than them" is not a working fix, it is just a hope and an asparation.

People hear it all the time and do not believe it.

I am not trying to derail the thread. You may be mad about the rail thing now, but really it goes back to the raids on the ledge.

Convert voter anger into NDP votes. Just being angry achieves nothing.

It is abundantly clear that they have been robbing us blind. Change the internals so that it is harder to steal from inside. Banks seem to be able to do it and supermarkets and factories. You need a system where lowly civil servants can check up on their political masters (because they are the ones doing the thieving). It is hard to design such a system but not impossible.

People will appreciate that a lot more than strident anger.

Mon, 2009-03-16 19:55

#36

Left Turn

remind wrote:
What a bunch of lies left turn and Brian! How about you provide some back up to your assertations that the BCNDP is corrupt and will not undo what Gordo has done?

Let's see.

Carole James will not cancel the 25% income tax cut brought in by the BC Liberals in 2001.

[url=http://www.carolejamesbeaconhill.ca/newsletters/carole_james_householder... James, MLA[/url]

Quote:
Supports middle and low income tax cuts and a small business tax cut announced in 2008.

Carole James says she will not cancel the Port Mann Bridge expansion/replacement.

[url=http://www.straight.com/article-203115/ndps-james-warms-port-mann-crossi...'s Carole James warms to Port Mann Crossing[/url]

Quote:

B.C. NDP Leader Carole James has reversed her stance on the controversial Port Mann Bridge issue.

In a phone interview, the Straight asked James if she was in favour of B.C. transportation minister Kevin Falcon's recent announcement that the bridge will be replaced by a “super-sized”, $3.3-billion tolled 10-lane structure that will be financed through a public-private partnership.

“Yes,” James confirmed from Victoria. “You have to have a bridge. You have to have a crossing across there. It's very clear that the traffic is high enough that you need to have a bridge there.”

Carole James will not return the contracted out jobs in hospitals to the HEU, and will not restore the wage levels of these employees.

[url=http://www.cupe.bc.ca/files/ndp_response_001.pdf]Canadian Union of Public Employees: 2005 Election Survey[/url]

Quote:
Carole Jamesand the BC New Democrats will honour contracts with business and labour...

Which means that Carole James and the BC NDP will honour the contracts with the private companies for the privatized HEU jobs, and won't rip up these contracts to put the jobs back in the public sector, and under HEU, at the former pay rate.

It also means Carole James will not reverse the privatization of BC Rail, because she will honour the contract with CN, and she won't reverse the breakup of BC Hydro, because she will honour the contracts with the private power producers.

Mon, 2009-03-16 20:23

#37

remind

False accusations of corruption and shortsightedness, combined with a lack of knowlege regarding the reversal of LEGAL contracts.

Mon, 2009-03-16 20:27

#38

remind

Plus failing to read an article all the way through!!!

Quote:
“I'm a realist,” James said. “That contract is going to be signed. Are we going to be able to buy back a contract with a private company that would cost millions? No. I'd rather spend those millions on transit. I'd rather make sure that the supports are in place than have to buy back a private contract.”

Mon, 2009-03-16 23:39

#39

Left Turn

Remind, quite frankly I don't give a damn about the legality of P3 contracts. I want a government that will declare that it no longer intends to honour P3 contracts. A government that actually does what's in the interest of poor and working people, not multinational corporataions.

Do you think Chavez gave a damn about the legality of the deals his predecessors made with the IMF? Obviously not, and thank goodness, because if he gave a damn about the legality of those deals, there wouldn't be a revolutionary process in Venezuela today.

Tue, 2009-03-17 02:25

#40

DrConway

Not to mention the BC Liberals showed that governments can, and do, rip up contracts without dire legal repercussions, although one thing the Libs probably didn't expect was to get union collective bargaining effectively read into the Charter of Rights.

*snerk*

Seriously, though, the fact that the BC Libs got re-elected proves that, spun the right way, cancellation of a contract doesn't hurt.

Tue, 2009-03-17 02:28

#41

Brian White

A former nurse (visiting her mum) thinks the floors in jubalee hosp in vic are a disgrace (she talked to me 2 days ago). She worked there about 10 years ago.

She was almost shaking with anger at the deterioration.

So whats the diff? Lower wages, minimal staffing, and high staff turnover in the contracted out section has reduced the standards. (and the profits go to some company in england or france, if i remember correctly).

And all that was brought on by campbell tearing up contracts to heu staff, (illegally as it turns out).

Should James tear up the replacement contracts if the company does not maintain standards and threaten the lives of patients? (as the nurse seems to think)

I would think she should.

Should james tear up contracts if it is found that there was fraud and "insider trading" of critical info in the BC rail case?

Of course. But she needs to have an efficient process to do it.

That means a speedy legal process (with deadlines) to nail the crooks.

The Basi Virk trial delays are an insult. It should have been over and done with years ago. Then (innocent or guilty) they would be getting on with their lives by now.

Tue, 2009-03-17 04:20

#42

DrConway

The simple explanation is that the RCMP and the judicial system have ties to the BC Liberal party, and there was probably a lot of winknudging going on to slow the trial down when the 2005 election was coming up. Unfortunately, the wheels of justice do grind, though they grind exceedingly slow, and with luck Basi-Virk will be the millstone about which the BC Liberals are finally sunk.

Thu, 2009-03-26 23:50

#43

remind

Apparently emails today were released in court that have Gordo, Kinsella and CN Rail officials altogether in the same office, and showed that Kinsella was working both sides of the fence.

Quote:
VANCOUVER– BC Rail documents disclosed to the defence lawyers in Basi-Virk case suggest Liberal insider Patrick Kinsella was "working both sides of the street" in the BC Rail sale, which was threatened with going off the rails in 2004.

Defence lawyer Kevin McCullough read out in court Thursday a series of emails between BC Rail executives and others that suggested the $1-billion privatization sale of BC Rail, announced by the government in November 2003, was going "off track" in early 2004.

"In May and June and July of 2004, this deal was coming apart," the lawyer told B.C. Supreme Court Justice Elizabeth Bennett.

"This is five months after the deal has been signed...and you've got CN on the verge of backing out and who do they go to? Patrick Kinsella," McCullough said.

He said the documents show that Kinsella was being paid by CN as a political advisor at the same time he was being paid as a $6,000 a month lobbyist for BC Rail.

the defence theory has always been that the accused "were doing the bidding of political masters" by assisting in the sale of BC Rail.

Fri, 2009-03-27 00:30

#44

DrConway

If the NDP can get traction on this, the election's as good as won. We need to do our part by making it abundantly clear, when the topic comes up, that the rot goes all the way to the top.

Fri, 2009-03-27 00:33

#45

remind

Oh yes it does, especially when the emails today are about a meeting with Gordo Kinsella and CN, plus the fact they note Kinsella a a "lobbyist" when he is not registered as such.

The media, well at least CBC is giving this decent coverage. Canwest and others are too busy trying to take down James and give gordo reign.

Fri, 2009-03-27 15:19

#46

no1important

Is Global owned by Gordon Campbell? Iwatched their morning news and now noon news just to if they would report this and no mention at all. Pretty pathetic.

Fri, 2009-03-27 15:28

#47

remind

I know I did too, and there was no coverage, just coverage of Day yapping.

Fri, 2009-03-27 19:18

#48

Fidel

[url=http://www.bcndp.ca/newsroom/cariboo-loses-more-rail-jobs][color=orange]... loses more rail jobs[/b][/color][/url]

Quote:

"Reduced service and lost jobs are part of the ongoing fallout of B.C. Rail sale," say New Democrats
WILLIAMS LAKE - News that the Cariboo is losing more rail jobs is part of the ongoing fallout from Gordon Campbell's broken promise not to sell off B.C. Rail, say the New Democrats.

"Five years after the sale of B.C. Rail, our region is still feeling the impact of Campbell's broken promise," said Cariboo South MLA Charlie Wyse after learning that six rail jobs are being transferred out of Williams Lake and a seventh is being transferred out of Lillooet.

"When he sold B.C. Rail, Gordon Campbell claimed it would be good for our economy," said Wyse. "That turned out to be another broken Campbell promise to the people of our region. The truth is the legacy of the sale has been job losses, service reductions, and damage to forestry, ranching, tourism and other key industries."

Yale-Lillooet MLA Harry Lali said the controversial sale of B.C. Rail - which is now mired in scandal - shows that Gordon Campbell puts his corporate friends ahead of his promises to rural B.C.

"Campbell's broken promise has been a disaster for the Interior," said Lali. "People here are paying the price, and it's outrageous that they still can't get answers from the Campbell Liberals about the secret backroom dealings that led to this sale."

Liberals, broken promises, and scandals. Same old story

Fri, 2009-03-27 20:52

#49

Brian White

Fairly extensive attacks on campbell in the Victoria times colonist now about the bc rail thing too. It seems it is all coming together. "Kinsella playing both sides" etc.

Fri, 2009-03-27 21:36

#50

DrConway

N! D! P! C'mon, Carole, get out in front of this and start trashing the BC Liberals for letting corporations turn the BC Legislature into their own personal sandbox!

Fri, 2009-03-27 22:00

#51

remind

Krog is doing a great job!

Patrick Kinsella, CN and BC Rail with ties that bind to Gordon Campbell

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