I've been having withdrawl symptons lately... no polls. Here's one just released by Ipsos today. I know, the numbers are goofy, but it's Ipsos and they will change.
Cons: 37%
Libs: 33%
NDP: 12%
BQ: 10%
Greens: 8%
http://www.vancouversun.com/Ignatieff+Liberals+close+Conservatives+Poll/1370989/story.html
Lookie... 17% again... or close enough.
Here's something perhaps a bit more realistic:
Tory support plummets in Quebec, poll finds
Canada
CPC - 35%, down 3%
LPC - 31%, down 2%
NDP - 16%
Bloc - 10%
Green - 9%
Quebec
Bloc -40%
LPC - 30%, up 6%
CPC - 10%, dowm 7%
NDP - ?
Strategic Council
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090309.wpoll10/BNStory/politics/home
Yeah, that's exciting! 
Full Strategic Counsel poll now reported here: [url=http://www.thestrategiccounsel.com/our_news/polls/2009-03-09%20-%20Vote%... link[/url].
Probably the most interesting thing about the SC poll is that they have Tory support in Quebec down to TEN PERCENT!
As I noted in the other polling thread, which was opened but had an obscure title. Angus Reid did a large political poll about a week and a half ago, but so far there have been no results for it published. Perhaps the results of it were not liked by those who commisssioned it?
I got polled on that one and was wondering when it would show up(remind what is the other poll thread?) they asked some interesting questions on that one, Although I can't remember them, they seemed less product centric and more political centric.
Well, at least the new Strategic Counsel poll no longer shows the Greens in first place in Quebec! 
I got polled on that one and was wondering when it would show up(remind what is the other poll thread?) they asked some interesting questions on that one, Although I can't remember them, they seemed less product centric and more political centric.There is another open polling thread but it has an obscure title.
That AR poll was all political and it was about the CPC's new tough on crime legislation items, and other assorted political items.
Today's Harris-Decima:
Lib: 33%
Con: 32%
NDP: 14%
Grn: 10%
BQ: 9%
http://www.harrisdecima.com/en/downloads/pdf/news_releases/031309E.pdf
Looks like female voters are abandoning the Cons.
It's even worse for the Tories I think, if we assume the Green numbers are inflated (13% in Ontario!) At least some of that 10% is going to go Liberal or NDP.
And the Tories are down to 13% in Quebec. If that's the case they could be wiped out there.
Unfortunately the Libs could also take Outremont back (they came pretty close to Mulcair in the last election).
The NDP has no traction now at all and there have been a lot of polls showing minor declines that have continued such that they no longer fall into the margin of error.
Some mistakes have been made from a communications point of view:
First I think the coalition idea was badly handled as I said before- and came out looking like a power grab rather than something with wide popular support. This is a key lesson as eventually we will need to sell this idea. We need a much better open process for public participation into our proposals for governance to make sure we do not ever take this hit again. The party looked so desperate to have a kick at power that it lost credibility.
Second, and this is what cemented the damage of the first in my view, the party came out and said it was voting against the budget no matter what it contained. This I believe is an extremely arrogant position that revolted Canadians who are in an economic crisis. It effectively took the NDP out of both the budget process in a very public way and then out of relevant commentary on the budget. The better communications strategy would have been to express a lack of confidence in the government as it was, a skepticism that the government could produce a budget that the NDP could support but a willingness to look. This would have kept the NDP support as a question. Unfortunately because of the NDP stance there was no need for reporters to consider the NDP as its vote was a forgone conclusion- a party simply should not take itself out of the public eye on such a key decision. Lastly the NDP did a massive disservice to Canadians particularly those who believe in a public role in our society. By checking out of the budget debate by deciding before the document was presented, the NDP did not put itself into a position where it would be listened to when the document came out. Key weaknesses in the document like the P3 requirements of much of the stimulus budget have been more under-reported than they would have been if the NDP position had not been one of the budget document being completely irrelevant to its vote.
The NDP always must struggle to get media attention so opportunities such as those where the NDP vote cannot be taken for granted should never be thrown away as the party did this time making its position a non-news story (along with making the party appear more partisan and more arrogant than it was). The party appeared to much to be sipping its own kool-aid than really thinking what undecided observers would think. It will take a while to earn back the credibility lost here and I am not sure if Layton can-- in fact I believe he shot his leadership on this. It would take too long for the image of a leader saying he did not care what was in the budget he would vote no- when Canadians were so desperate. Layton has been a good leader, I like him. But I am not sure that these last three months of mistakes can be recovered from. If the party cannot restore public relevance in the next 12 months I think he should resign.
And please don't give me the crap about having a fit over one poll- the slide from polls around 20% has been happening for several months and the party is polling not far off of where it was when Layton took over the leadership. That is not a bad thing for a party in first place but a party running a poor third cannot afford to tread water never mind decline if you say your purpose is to govern.
I have also written here that the NDP was not where it needed to be when Dion was leader. My point was that a bump due to the Liberal weakness was hiding NDP lack of strength as we knew the Liberals would get a stronger leader. Presently the Liberals have a leader to the right of their party and the NDP is still declining. We should not wait for single digits to see that there is a disconnect between the party's communications and the public. In a downturn like this with the biggest opposition party supporting the government, polling under 15% this range of polling is a failure. All polls are showing the NDP below election levels so the slide is obvious. Margin of error discussions can only debate how deep the slide is but the point is in this economic crisis where workers should be turning to the NDP the party is gaining no support at the very best interpretation.
You may say this is early to sound the alarm. It is if you are satisfied with a 20% at best target for an election. But if you see the party as a potential governing party this is a disaster and the longer the party stays in these numbers the more it reinforces the position that under this leader the party is an also-ran. The "I am running for PM" comment is seen with derision by all but NDP hard core supporters.
The NDP needs to review its communications with an emphasis on using technology to create a better connect. The party needs to look at its message and evaluate the relevance of what it is saying and avoid issues that do not connect- you don't get to choose what is reported when you are a third party as a lot is ignored so you have to stay on message. The party needs to stop buying into its propaganda and realize it has a communications problem right now. The party should be looking for concrete things that can connect and push those to the exclusion of any other partisan crap that only pleases those who attend conventions and will vote for an NDP candidate regardless of quality. The party has to focus group and tailor its message to avoid stereotypes it now suffers from including messages that can be taken as power hungry, arrogant, out of touch, unrealistic etc. Many times the content of a message does not have to change to make the tone different. Layton himself has to look at the delivery of his comments because quite often he is turning people off even though the content of his message is fine. The NDP also needs to get away from both a reality and an appearance of a dogmatic inflexible position. There are many things we will not trade away or compromise- but we can trust ourselves a little more and not have to say that in every breath. Appearing more receptive is essential and can be achieved without Liberal Party-style sellouts on key principles.
Otherwise we can keep hoping for 50 seats and celebrating when we hit 30. Frankly maybe I am of an age when I am no longer interested in next generation and next time. The party needs more than anything else to have more confidence in its principles and regard it as a failure when the right policies cannot get more than a fifth support at best. If we are so damn right then why can't we convince 40% of Canadians that we are? Some parties are too harsh on their leadership we aren't harsh enough- we need to recognize failure when we see it and ask for correction and the leader needs to stop pretending things are okay when we are happy to get in the high teens in support- no other party has such low standards except perhaps the Greens.
"And please don't give me the crap about having a fit over one poll"
No, but let's keep in mind that the NDP's standing in the polls is about identical to what it was in just about every poll from early 2007 to the summer of 2008. Exactly a year ago there were a bunch of polls showing the NDP with as little as 13 or 14% and then those bad results in byelections last March and people were running around like chickens with their heads chopped off...then we had quite a good election campaign and got 37 seats.Its also notable that polls kept shoiwng the Liberals and Tories almost tied right up untul when the writ was dropped and then the Liberals collapsed. So, would I rather be at 20% than 15% - sure. But I think that we have to look ahead to an election that is likely 6 months to a year from now and make plans.
As far as the budget was concerned, its unfortunate that it got spun as "we will vote against the budget before we even see it" when in fact it was really a matter of "we have no confidence in the Harper government and we will vote no confidence at every opportunity and all budget votes are confidence votes".
Iggy, for the general public is a blank slate on which they can create their ideal version of what the Liberals stand for. The more the public actually sees him, the more the polls will slide for them. I am not at all surprised by current polling. Frankly the numbers would have looked the same if the Liberals had chosen a goat. It is not about Iggy, it is about a leader who is not Dion.
If I was advising the NDP to do anything different it would be to run some attack ads against the two peas in a pod Harper and Iggy right now. Nothing fancy, but something that could be spread around through youtube or whatever.
As a voracious polling observer I do note that there has been a substantial increase in the numbers over the last 5 years for the NDP. I am not sure if this suggests that Canadians prefer an NDP that edges more to the centre or if it is a normal fluctuation.
In fact the NDP remains in the same range it was in in 2004 so in fact I would not say there is any upward trend in the last 5 years when it comes to polls.
In terms of electoral results the NDP achieved more seats in the last election but even these are more directly explained by what was happening in NL (for one seat) and Northern Ontario which went NDP in part due to the Dion unpopularity esp with his tax which would have devastated that region.
For those happy with the NDP as a social conscience no where near power this might be okay but it is hardly success for a political movement - especially one whose leader says he is shooting for the top.
I don't think we can afford to assume everything is okay.
Certainly I think Layton should make a case to stay with a strategy to overcome current challenges if he is to remain leader in the longer term.
I agree with stock. The message got contorted by the media. They said :
"The NDP are voting against the upcoming budget regardless of what it has." NOT:
"The NDP have said they can not trust Harper so they will vote against the budget because of Harpers broken promises on previous budgets." Which is what Jack actually said and gave examples.
See the way the media can influence. My two sentances give coverage to the NDP in an equal manner(you know the old bull we get more than equal time) And they both represent the intention of the party. However we can agree that one certainly says something very different than the other.
Not once did the media take the cons to task for breaking a TON of promises nevermind breaking the law they wrote, along with wiretapping. I put more blame on the media than the ignorant people in Canada who can't get informed by a regular newscast, because it's not in the interest of the media owners.
Sean in Ottawa has nailed the public perception of the Federal NDP. There is no doubt that Jack Layton has boxed the NDP into a corner with their own credibility issues.
Looking at the last poll, taking into account that the their is massive job losses occurring and these job losses are dominated by Blue Collar males, you have to wonder why Jack Layton is not connecting with this group. 1 in 10 males are supporting the federal NDP.
That is pathetic for what is supposed to be a party of Labour.
Why do these workers, thrown out of their jobs because of Corporate Greed, put their trust into Stephen Harper?
Regardless, if the NDP accepts good advice or analysis, I would hope they take a good hard look at Sean in Ottawas post.
The NDP is still wreaking of that coalition deal, and have done absolutely nothing to address the problems facing Canadians or find a way to move forward without the Stench of Dion and the coalition.
Working class joes are calling him, Hollywood Jack. They also wish for a leader like Ed Broadbent. Everyone knows Ed Broadbent took alot of time to get accepted, and then became the most popular leader and was considered a man of the people. Jack still comes off as a Man of the professors. Much like Ignatieff. There won't be room for two nutty professors, so perhaps its time for the NDP to show who Jack Layton is?
Is he the guy who is running for Prime Minister? Or is he the guy who is standing up for Canadians? If you are going to stand up for Canadians, you need to make certain they are standing behind you. If not, you are just a professor on a lecture tour, hoping people are listening.
And they are not.
Missed the mark on most accounts. It's the media. Why do you think boardbent got sunk on 1988. He was doing great in the polls, where did canadians go when push came to shove?
I expect people to disregard good advice.
Its funny how people now create this myth of Broadbent as the great champion of the common man as some sort of contrast to Layton. Broadbent was a Toronto Professor of Political Philosophy who could bore you to tears talking about John Stewart Mills. He did about as well electorally as Layton has.
Right now we are very, very early in a recession and no one has yet formulated policies to address it and i think that at this stage its pretty clear that there is a global recession going on. As much as i loathe Harper, even I have to acknowlegde that even if the NDP had a majority government right now, there is zero chance that Canada would miraculously be the only country on the face of the earth not to be touched by the recession.
I agree with stock. The message got contorted by the media. They said :
"The NDP are voting against the upcoming budget regardless of what it has." NOT:
"The NDP have said they can not trust Harper so they will vote against the budget because of Harpers broken promises on previous budgets." Which is what Jack actually said and gave examples.
See the way the media can influence. My two sentances give coverage to the NDP in an equal manner(you know the old bull we get more than equal time) And they both represent the intention of the party. However we can agree that one certainly says something very different than the other.
Not once did the media take the cons to task for breaking a TON of promises nevermind breaking the law they wrote, along with wiretapping. I put more blame on the media than the ignorant people in Canada who can't get informed by a regular newscast, because it's not in the interest of the media owners.
This is the problem-- too many people n the NDP think there is a material distinction between teh two statements - there isn't except in a political ivory tower.
Both say that the NDP for political reasons stated before seeing the document that they would vote against no matter what was in there for ordinary Canadians. That was an arrogant self serving thing to say and a stupid communications strategy that resulted in most journalists nowing that the NDP would have nothing new on budget night to say. The NDP could simply have said that they have no faith in the government but n behalf of Canadians would look at what was proposed.
Unless NDPers are able to recognize that something has gone wrong since the alst election and that there is some kind of change needed they will grow more and more out of touch. The party misread the public mood. I think this has done a lot more damage than just a couple points- Layton was considered a leader worth looking at- the farcical display over the last while was unbecoming of a man who wanted to be PM. If Layton and the party recognize this then something can be done- if they listen to cheerleaders like Stock, at the end of the next election they will be dealing with significant defeats. Those numbers you think are close are the difference between winning and losing in the majority of seats the NDP now has. Worse, the party is losing the respect of many people who look to it for leadership-- I am one and I speak to many others constantly who ask where the party is on things that matter. If the NDP cannot impress me, a person who has voted NDP for 25 years then how will the party attract more voters? Most of this is not even policy- its crappy communications.Blaming the media is easy and entirely useless unless you have a plan to change the media it is whining. It was entirely predictable that the NDP would fall out of the news after prejudging the budget- and the reason for doing so really does not matter to Canadians losing their jobs. I hate Harper and could not imagine voting for a Harper budget but if I was advising the NDP communications I would tell them never, ever say that out loud because that makes your opinion irrelevant. Communications happens to be my business and it is a classic text-book mistake. It also is an advertisement that there is no point adopting any NDP policies out of the hope of winning and NDP support.A party that has never elected a Federal government always has to work with other parties to get its ideas adopted. It is equally arrogant to assume that there is nothing at all the NDP could come up with that could have passed in that budget. This was a time of stimulus- something the NDP at times advocated and the party did not spend its time saying this is what the budget must contain and instead spent it trying to hang on to a fantasy of gaining power that everyone that had not voted NDP knew was a joke. Layton looked smaller by the hour in those days. It was quite frankly the worst played communications I have seen teh NDP do since Layton was elected leader and someone ought to have been responsible for that. Instead we have cheerleaders acting like three monkeys (one being blind) pretending everything is fine.
The NDP already tried after the 2006 election making some noises about adopting a wait and see attitude towards the Tories and even working with them on some issues - all it resulted in was the NDP getting crucified for implying that there was so much as a one in a trillion chance of cooperating with the Tories. Its a lose-lose proposition. The NDP doesn't have to see a budget to know that Harper has to go. Just like how in the fall of 2005, the Tories and the BQ didn't care what legislation Paul Martin put forward - they had already made it perfectly clear that they would vote down the Liberal minority government at the first opportunity. Canadians were obviously soooo upset with the Tories for pulling the plug on the Martin government - they elected a Harper government.
The NDP learned over the last three years that by staking out an early position of being opposed the the Tories on every single vote - it forces the Liberals to prop up the Tories (as they have done 60-off times now). Meanwhile, its now March and people are still sulking about how the NDP could have gotten slightly more publicity for about a week in mid-January if we had been bit more mysterious about whether or not we would support the budget.
I am the first to agree that the whole communications strategy now needs to be re-tooled. But, I would say that no matter where the NDP was in the polls right now for the simple reason that the world is not the same place that it was four months ago. There is a new Liberal leader who is taking his party wildly to the right and who policies are 100% identical to Harper's, there is an economic meltdown and the NDP needs to formulate new policies to address AND we probably have a six month period at the very least before the next election (if not longer) during which time the impact of the recession is going to bite harder and harder. No matter what - the NDP is going to have to come up with a whole new strategy because of recent events.
All that being said, you have to play the long game and not fall into a trap of seeing a poll, panicking, and thinking you have fire everyone and turn everything 180 degrees. One year ago, there were a lot of doubting Thomases who were convinced that the NDP was committing suicide by opposing the carbon tax (what were they thinking??) etc...
The public has a notoriously short memory. We can't rewind the tape and go back to late November and undo the whole coalition idea and undo opposing the illegitimate Harper government that suspended parliament etc... its history. I'd rather focus on what the strategy should be going forward.
There are many things we will not trade away or compromise- but we can trust ourselves a little more and not have to say that in every breath.
Like what?
I think the discussion between Sean in Ottawa and Stockholm is a very interesting one and very worthwhile ... so I hope we can roll with it for a bit. I do agree with Sean that, whatever the institutional media "bias" against the NDP, they must not be passive about it, but take some initiative on the communications front.
And, I agree with Stockholm that taking the longer view is what's required now ... and what is finally permitted by circumstances. I see a few folks at party headquarters took the opportunity right after the election to move on to other opportunities, and they are being replaced now. And the research and policy shop looks like it's getting a retool as well from the job postings we've seen on the website lately ... a good investment of the new parliamentary budget, and long overdue.
Sean is right that the party took a bit of a short-term hit around the budget, and perhaps that wasn't the best approach inasmuch as they were replaying the strategy of the last Parliament. But I do agree with Stockholm about its potential long-term positioning advantages, so I can imagine why they felt strongly about proceeding in that way.
The thing is, I'm not prepared to criticize Layton for taking risks and trying new things. The coalition idea was a bit too new for the press gallery (who then screwed up the explanations, aided and abetted by the Conservative lie-machine, and subsequently commissioned polls that repeated back exactly all the incorrect explanations that they'd offered in the first place), so yes ... the communications strategy was weak there. But we will wind up in the situation where a coalition is a viable option again, to be sure, unless the Bloc Québécois disappears tomorrow which it's unlikely to do. And by that time, the idea won't be so foreign.
And while I think the party took a bit of a short-term hit, they've proven themselves capable of bouncing back before, and ought to be able to do so again. I don't think they're mortally wounded, nor do I think Layton is. In fact, the coverage is correcting itself a bit on him lately, with Harper's comments on Afghanistan and a few other issues, where now the views Layton was once pilloried for are becoming conventional wisdom (and, no, I don't want to re-debate the whole Afghanistan issue in detail here, because I'm not qualified to ... I'm just talking about the coverage of the issue, Taliban Jack vs. Taliban Steve, as one example of the phenomenon).
So, yes, the next strategic objectives have to be researched and thought out and executed. And a lot of Sean's points are well-taken and ought to be incorporated. The most mortal danger I've seen the federal NDP in was after Meech and Charlottetown, and I don't think we're in nearly that situation here. In fact, we're about to elect a provincial government for the very first time in Nova Scotia, which should be uplifting for us (and demoralizing for the Liberals, who while they may be in second place in the polls there, are more likely to wind up in third place in terms of the number of seats they win).
If we were going to the polls in three months, the urgency of what Sean is writing would be evident. But I don't think we are, and I think there is time to do some more building and consider that strategic retooling that both Sean and Stockholm are advocating.
Broadbent ... did about as well electorally as Layton has.No he did notably better - over 20% of the popular vote.
Also note that in 1988 both the Liberals and Conservatives ran strong campagins. Both Mulroney and Turner had far more appeal to the voters than Harper and Dion in 2008, and the Liberals and Conservatives had taken control of the opposing positions on the key issue of the election, free trade with the US. Yet the NDP still did better than in 2008.
Like OO, I sort of agree with everybody! Contradictions and all. Thats on the communications strategies/capabilities of the NDP.
On that subject, while Jack was in Edmonton:
Layton irate over lost jobs. Says Harper's efforts not enough to lift country out of economic slump
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Business/Layton+irate+over+lost+jobs/1391846/story.html
Tories have 'polluted' economic plans, says Layton
A days news cycle is not definitive.
But those stories would not be featured, had Jack and Caucus not primed things first.
Both Mulroney and Turner had far more appeal to the voters than Harper and Dion in 2008,
On paper and in raw terms, perhaps. But we seem to be forgetting here the factors that led to Broadbent's brief leading-in-the-polls moment around 1987--vestiges of which lingered into the 1988 election to the point where people voted in spite of the leadership, more than because of it.
The seeds of the full-bore anti-Mulroney backlash were already there (manifesting itself in losses and near-losses in the West, unlikely parts of the Ontario heartland + Maritimes, etc). And Turner was still viewed as an albatross who was only saved from third-place ignominy by his debate performance...
[url=http://www.thestar.com/article/602138]The Star: Harris-Decima Poll Puts Liberals and Tories in Virtual Tie[/url]
OTTAWA–A new poll suggests the federal Liberals and Conservatives are in a dead heat, while Tory support is dropping in some parts of the country and among women.
The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey put the Liberals at 33 per cent and the Conservatives at 32.
The NDP was at 14 per cent, the Greens at 10, and the Bloc Quebecois at nine.
It suggests the Tories trail the Liberals by five percentage points among women overall and by 12 points among urban women.
***
The Conservatives have also seen their support in Quebec cut in half. The Bloc remains in front with 39 per cent support, while the Liberals have moved up to 32. The Tories have slid to 13, the NDP are at nine and the Greens at six.
Walker said the uproar over proposed Tory cuts to cultural spending hurt them in the province, as did Stephen Harper's harsh condemnation of the Bloc as separatists during the turmoil over the proposed opposition coalition before Christmas.
The Liberals were ahead in Ontario, where NDP support has sagged into a low-teens tie with the Greens.
Full results: [url=http://www.harrisdecima.com/en/downloads/pdf/news_releases/031309E.pdf]P...
Right now we are very, very early in a recession and no one has yet formulated policies to address it and i think that at this stage its pretty clear that there is a global recession going on. As much as i loathe Harper, even I have to acknowlegde that even if the NDP had a majority government right now, there is zero chance that Canada would miraculously be the only country on the face of the earth not to be touched by the recession.
It is pretty simple to understand that when companies making $400 Million dollars in Profit, in Canadian Operations, decide to leave, it is going to have an impact. Especially when their goal is to make $800 Million to 1 Billion or more with the move to a foreign location. Keeping these jobs is paramount to fighting a recession. Losing these jobs, as has occured for nearly 5 years straight without anykind of policy to stop the bleeding is a pathetic excuse. Fact is the NDP was the only party with an industrial policy in the 2008 federal election. Allowing Billions of dollars to be sucked out of the economy does not stop recessions. Allowing Companies with huge profit margins receive a tax break on their way out of the country does not stop recessions. Allowing foreign companies to buy up the competition and shut down the operations in Canada does not stop a recession. These are the policies of the LPC and CPC.
Could the NDP stop this global recession? Did the NDP advocate these Neo Liberal Policies worldwide? The answer is no to both. But the current policies of the LPC and CPC are to see Global Companies survive, and local economies and jobs cast aside.
If you suggest that the NDP has no policies to deal with corporate theft and exploitation of our economy, then the NDP should fold up its tent. Is there no one standing up for the worker? All this Green talk is nice, but doesn't mean shit, if you can start a Green Economy, and have global robber barons come in and steal that technology like they have taken much of our current technology and ship the means of production offshore.
Of course world wide recessions affect every country, but ours was a hidden recession that had been in the works since 2005. Good jobs and companies were being purchased at an alarming rate, and hundreds of thousands of people were being thrown out of work for good. The Government focus on the "new economy" masked full time good paying jobs, with part time, and full time temporary indefinite servitude. You are paying for the priviledge to work. Thus if 40,ooo jobs were lost in one month and 50,000 part time temp jobs created, then we considered this employment growth. If Billions in manufacturing were sucked out of the country and Billions invested in warehousing, then we considered this economic growth. Except one aspect has value added, creates many jobs in a compact area, and the other requires, no technical aspect, low educational and skill requirements and provides far fewer full time better paying jobs.
I don't believe the NDP supports the gutting of Industry. The other parties do, once you get into their circles, nothing would make them happier then to do the bidding and wishes of the large corporations, who wish for Canada to be nothing more then a resource supplier and warehouse.
Canada would be in a much stronger position if the healthy companies hadn't been purchased and ransacked.
I doubt the NDP would have blown the EI Fund paid for by the employer and employees to give take cuts to these same large multi billion dollar companies, who are now leaving these workers and there management staff high and dry.
Unfortuneately, in my region the NDP is now associated with an unwanted coalition, has not been seen standing up for the 10s of thousands that are losing their jobs, and these people are going to believe and follow the words of either the LPC or CPC in the next election.
And their lively hoods will get no better, recession or not. Because what has been happening prior to this recession, is no different then what is happening during it. Only more people are being affected and thus it has caught the attention of media and government.
If the NDP doesn't have a plan to deal with the recession in Canada, and help our local economies, (the opposite of globalization), then why should anyone pay attention to them.
The NDP is even afraid to talk about Free Trade and Globalization. People know this meltdown was brought upon us by corporate greed. Yet, the NDP is allowing the CPC and LPC and their supporters to blame the working people.
While I understand the if the NDP had a majority government, much like any party, they would be facing a harsh recession. But the tools to fight a Global recession exist at the federal level, and the only tools the CPC and LPC seem to know is SPEND SPEND SPEND, CUT TAXES CUT TAXES CUT TAXES, and this is an economic disaster of a policy.
We will be in a worse position in 1 year, then we are today. We will have lost close to 1 Million Jobs before the year is out. If the NDP doesn't have a policy, it better find one, or close up shop.
Everyone knows that Stockholm is a mouthpiece for the NDP and a pretty piss one. He's just one of the symptons of a sickness in the party. If he was on 'The Titanic' this looser would be trying to paint a happy face on the situation by telling the passengers that the on deck swimming pool is about to get bigger.
In Quebec things were pretty bad as the party pres. (Piper Huggins) was a total looser. She's be the kind of person who if you won 4% in this election as to the 2% in the last, she'd tell you that you were doing a 100% better.
First: What to do with people like this?..
Answer: Get rid of them. They collect a paycheck and do diddly-squat to actually earn it.
Next: Let's start being aggressive. The party has to do what Howard Dean did and have a '50 state' strategy.
The party strategists concentrate on about 60 ridings accross the country and then look all surprise when they only win 37 of them...What a bunch of fucking morons!..
I mean look at the party right now. It's a disaster!
The polls are crap, the guys running the party out of Ottawa are crap.
Saskatchewan: Disaster area (NOT A SINGLE MP ELECTED IN THE LAST ELECTION!)..
Ontario: Disaster area (The party is now polling behind the GODAMNED GREENS in some ridings)..There is just no way to spin this in a nice positive way anymore.
Why?.. cause loosers with looser mentalities, are running the party.
I see you just joined babble for the first time today so you could just shriek a bunch of ad hominem insults and personal invective and not make a single solitary constructive suggestion. What a waste of oxygen.
Stockholm speaks for the NDP- who knew?
Who else do you speak for Stock - come clean now - its the Grease Fanatics Network I bet.
"No he did notably better - over 20% of the popular vote. Also note that in 1988 both the Liberals and Conservatives ran strong campagins. Both Mulroney and Turner had far more appeal to the voters than Harper and Dion in 2008"
That's not true at all. First of all, the best result the NDP ever had under Broadbent was 20% of the vote in 1988. The best result ever under Layton was 18.3% in 2008 - but in 1988 we only had three parties compared to four (or five if you count the so-called greens) in 2008. Also, John Turner was a catastrophically bad Liberal leader who was considered just as much of a liability as Stephane Dion - if not more of one. and I'm not sure that Mulroney in 1988 was all that much tougher competition than Harper.
It's really about preserving the power base and jobs of a few party aparatchicks, not much more than that. Its a good marketing tool for money collection. Also the government gives the NDP money to pretend to be the left opposition. The right just loves it.
I feel the same way about the NDP as I do about the Leafs.
Ed Broadbent was the NDP's Wendel Clark: here is a great goal by Clark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSXJfU29wew
The party has to do what Howard Dean did and have a '50 state' strategy.
Ya gotta be kidding. Howard Dean's proverbial 50-state strategy died on the operating table. :
I understand Stockholm is an NDP supporter. I doubt very much that Stockholm is the mouthpiece for the NDP.Everyone knows that Stockholm is a mouthpiece for the NDP and a pretty piss one. He's just one of the symptons of a sickness in the party.
In Quebec things were pretty bad as the party pres.Some would argue the NDP spent to much time, money and efforts in Quebec. No breakthrough. However, the NDP did get their first elected MP in a General Election. If you can recall a better General Election Result for the NDP or its Predecessor CCF in Quebec, I'd be happy to hear about it.
If anything the NDP should be jumping for joy regarding their Quebec Results. The important thing for the NDP is why are they now losing ground to the LPC. The LPC appear to have instant credibility again in Quebec. Perhaps their "Timeout" is over.
First: What to do with people like this?..If you say so. I was unaware that the NDP could afford any kind of infrastructure. Are these people not "elected". If so, the decision to be rid of someone belongs with those card carrying members.Answer: Get rid of them. They collect a paycheck and do diddly-squat to actually earn it.
The 1993 NDP election campaign could be referred to as a disaster. The 2008 NDP campaign is the 2nd best in its history. Call it a disaster if you like.I mean look at the party right now. It's a disaster!
The polls are crap, the guys running the party out of Ottawa are crap.The Polls are crap because the NDP took themselves out of the game. Joining with Dion was the biggest mistake the party could make. The LPC have successfully ditched the coalition and moved on. The NDP is wearing the stink. The LPC appear to the public as trying to fix the budget (we know that is not true, but this is politics), but the NDP appear like little boys who took their ball and went home. The NDP behaved like Stephen Harper does, when he doesn't get his way.
Until the NDP defines itself, and I don't think running around saying green jobs is going to save the party, I expect them to slide into oblivion if they do not get their shit together and start connecting with the public before the next writ is dropped. The positive results of the 08 election and its future potential, have been frittered away by some poor choices a mere few months after the election. The tar and feathers is on the NDP, not the LPC or the BQ.
Saskatchewan: Disaster area (NOT A SINGLE MP ELECTED IN THE LAST ELECTION!)..Historically, this isn't the first time that's happened. Regardless in the 08 Election, the NDP outpolled the LPC by close to a 2 to 1 margin and didn't win any seats.
What is troubling, in regions where the NDP was 2nd in voter support in 08, they have not only seen the CPC gain in these regions, the NDP are now being supplanted by the LPC. BC, Sask, Man. Particularly.
Ontario: Disaster area (The party is now polling behind the GODAMNED GREENS in some ridings)..There is just no way to spin this in a nice positive way anymore.Whoa dude. The NDP just received the HIGHEST number of seats in Ontario ever. More then in the days of Ed Broadbent and not just a single seat more. The NDP have IIRC 5 more seats in Ontario then when Ed Broadbent led the party in 1988 and the Labour movement was active and not the shell that it is today.
Why?.. cause loosers with looser mentalities, are running the party.
Should I put more faith in someone who cannot spell?
What robbie-dee says perfectly encapsulates my view on this as well.
The Polls are crap because the NDP took themselves out of the game. Joining with Dion was the biggest mistake the party could make. The LPC have successfully ditched the coalition and moved on. The NDP is wearing the stink.I feel I can't really knock the NDP for trying the Coalition gambit. It was a big risk, for sure, but it had the potential for a big payoff. But for the whim of Michelle Jean, the NDP could have been part of government. Moreover, the other alternative - swallowing Harper's poison pill - wasn't exactly appealing either. The problem is that it was a high-risk move, and in the end, the gamble didn't pay off. Now we're stuck with the messy aftermath. Harper saved his job. Iggy has emboldened the Liberal Party, even though their fundamental position (propping up the Conservatives while waiting for their finances and poll numbers to improve) hasn't changed one iota. And the NDP is left on the sidelines. I agree that the NDP probably should have tried to back away from the Coalition sooner, most likely right around the time that Iggy started to signal he would. That being said, I'm still not sure the Party would be in that much better of a position. I don't really know what to do about it, though.
Should I put more faith in someone who cannot spell?
Elitist snobbery. Makes the case pretty clear, I should say.
Should I put more faith in someone who cannot spell?
I think this is a fair comment -- though you might be well advised to look up the difference between than and then.
Actually, I would say that spelling flames are lame, and also possibly borderline against the user agreement for this site. Since they denigrate people for deficiencies that are not necessarily within their control. Since when did the new look NDP start promoting intellectual snobbery?
Is it necessary for me to point out that it is indeed those who the NDP is supposed to be champions for, who are most likely to spell badly, working people, people who left school early, the marginalized?
Is it necessary for me to point out that it is indeed those who the NDP is supposed to be champions for, who are most likely to spell badly, working people, people who left school early, the marginalized?
I really don't want to sidetrack this, and agree that pedantry can be a distraction. However, I think the ability to communicate effectively cannot be entirely decoupled from the substance of an argument. And I also think the assumption you make about who is most likely to spell poorly is a dangerous one and also reveals its own form of elitism. The same type of logic allows the Sun newspaper chain to depict itself as the voice of the common (wo)man.
If I was betting, I think we are likely to get a Liberal minority in the next Federal Election. The wild card will be the obligatory attack ads and how much effect they have on swaying the electorate.
Cueball makes a good point- I'd go further- inclusivity does not assume that anyone's first language is English. Another reason to avoid spelling flames.
That said the flame may have been a snarky comment more associated with the content than the spelling which is fairly common here. I would not take too much out of a single spelling flame but it is better not to make a habit out of it.
Ifr you tink it was so "clear and to the point" maybe you could explain what exactly the "point" of it was.
