Who needs GITMO, we're going to have our great white north version ...

50 posts / 0 new

Sun, 2009-03-15 20:16

Newfie

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1353971

I guess I was naive when I thought that rights erosion could only happen south of the border.

============

"We all know the threat from dirty bombs, chemical contaminants. This is certainly one of the more dangerous situations that can arise," said Brig.-Gen. Collin.

"You can certainly get it from a terrorist act. You can also get it from a man-made disaster. You can get nuclear contamination from a nuclear power plant -- Three Mile Island, Chernobyl.

"We are training to establish a perimeter. Do I see a scenario when we might be obliged to keep people in? Probably. You need to be trained to be able to make sure that you don't become a casualty in the process of doing that security."

=============

Puhlease ... why would terrorists ... <cough> imaginary enemies <cough>... want to mix it up with us? We're the nice country ;-)

I guess I should get back to the paper to see if we're still at war with Oceania, er ... or was that Eurasia?

Sleep tight,

Craig

Sun, 2009-03-15 21:04

sock puppet

Fascism comes on little cat feet...

Sun, 2009-03-15 21:13

Realigned

Newfie wrote:

Puhlease ... why would terrorists ... <cough> imaginary enemies <cough>... want to mix it up with us? We're the nice country ;-)

A few years ago a terrorist cell (or freedom fights or patriots or whatever we'd like to call them) were looking for a juicy target at sea to bomb. No US or British ships I'd imagine. It was to protest US invading Iraq.

The group ended up bombing (and sinking?) a french oil tanker. The group was interviewed and the interviewer flat out asked- why did you attack/sink a french oil tanker, they are aganst the war in Iraq. The interviewee replied it doesn't matter their all infidels anyways.

Sun, 2009-03-15 21:25

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

sock puppet wrote:
Fascism comes on little cat feet...

Good article.

About those [s]Heimatsicherheit[/s] Homeland Security "temporary" checkpoints: We had a thread about them on babble (now gone down the babble memory hole), but there are a number of [url=http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7BC956C2E15751BE][color=mediumbl... videos[/u][/color][/url] documenting encounters with some of them.

Sun, 2009-03-15 22:30

Maysie

Realigned wrote:
A few years ago a terrorist cell (or freedom fights or patriots or whatever we'd like to call them) were looking for a juicy target at sea to bomb. No US or British ships I'd imagine. It was to protest US invading Iraq.
The group ended up bombing (and sinking?) a french oil tanker. The group was interviewed and the interviewer flat out asked- why did you attack/sink a french oil tanker, they are aganst the war in Iraq. The interviewee replied it doesn't matter their all infidels anyways.

Realigned are you frikking serious? What you posted, with no link, is bullshit. I'm going to check in with the other mods about what repercussions may happen re your posting privileges. Stand by.

Sun, 2009-03-15 22:38

martin dufresne

"The interviewee replied it doesn't matter their all infidels anyways."

Do you have the same one-liner with a drum roll and a cymbal clash at the end?

While we're at it, do you have a name and a media for this "interviewer", or are we to go on second-hand Islam-hating hearsay from a pseudonymous person? It seems strange that you have the punchline down pat, but don't even know whether the ship was sunk.

(How dare anyone think oil tankers have anything to do with Iraq???)

Sun, 2009-03-15 22:41

Realigned

Maysie wrote:
Realigned are you frikking serious? What you posted, with no link, is bullshit. I'm going to check in with the other mods about what repercussions may happen re your posting privileges. Stand by.

Sorry about not providing the link Maysie.

I'll try and track the link down to the news article, I think i was in 2005 or 2006. Should I remove the comment until I find the link to back it up or appologize for not providing one and retract it?

Sun, 2009-03-15 22:42

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limburg_tanker_bombing][color=mediumblue][u... of the [i]Limburg[/i][/u][/color][/url]

Mon, 2009-03-16 00:29

Jingles

Bravo. Mark Fucking Steyn.

Why are you here? Don't you have a hangnail medal to polish?

Mon, 2009-03-16 09:53

#10

Doug

Shouldn't it be the business of the armed forces to be prepared for the worst? It's not terribly likely that that any of these things is going to happen, but if they do, isn't it better to have trained people available? As for the the establishment of perimeters, well, duh! If there's been heavy radiological, biological or chemical contamination to an area, it's a really bad idea to let people out to spread it elsewhere without being checked and decontaminated first.

Mon, 2009-03-16 10:06

#11

Unionist

Jingles wrote:

Bravo. Mark Fucking Steyn.

Why are you here? Don't you have a hangnail medal to polish?

Don't be so hard on Realigned. A moderator asked everyone to go easy on him the other day. He's on a learning mission here - learning about racism, about the Left, about Afghanistan. Naturally, he will consult other resources as well, like Free Republic, in order to get a well-rounded picture. Don't you think we should help him on his journey of exploration?

Doug wrote:
Shouldn't it be the business of the armed forces to be prepared for the worst? It's not terribly likely that that any of these things is going to happen, but if they do, isn't it better to have trained people available?

Huh? Our armed forces are trained to befriend Afghan villagers, dig wells, and protect girls on their way to school. Aren't they? Are you suggesting they be removed from those crucial functions in order to deal with terrorists entering Canada on hang-gliders and ice floes!?

Mon, 2009-03-16 10:39

#12

remind

Well, I guess refering to martin as a "martian", is fully exploring the learning process as is quoting free republic, wtf?

Mon, 2009-03-16 11:05

#13

Boom Boom

The Canadian Rangers usually train all up and down the northern Quebec coast in winter, travelling on snowmobiles with their supplies tied down in komatiks (winter sleds). A few years ago they were training just outside our village (Kegaska) learning to operate high calibre machine guns, although that was just a one-time thing as far as I know. Their usual training here is about winter and wilderness survival. I haven't seen them this winter (yet). I've lived on the Quebec coast (Lower North Shore, just below Labrador) since 1995, and am friends with quite a few of these folks.

An offshoot of the Canadian Rangers are the Junior Rangers, quite a lot of our coastal young people are involved.

Canadian Rangers

excerpt:

The Canadian Rangers are part-time reservists who provide a military presence in remote, isolated and coastal communities of Canada. Formally established in 1947, Canadian Rangers are responsible for protecting Canada's sovereignty by reporting unusual activities or sightings, collecting local data of significance to the Canadian Forces, and conducting surveillance or sovereignty patrols as required.

Mandate - Canadian Rangers

Canadian Rangers provide a military presence in those sparsely settled northern, coastal and isolated areas of Canada that cannot conveniently or economically be provided for by other components of the Canadian Forces.

Tasks - Canadian Rangers

The tasks assigned to the Rangers include providing a military presence in support of sovereignty including:

Reporting unusual activities;
Collecting local data of significance in support of military operations;
Conducting surveillance/sovereignty patrols as tasked.

Rangers also assist Canadian Forces activities by:

Providing local expertise, guidance and advice;
Conducting Northern Warning System patrols as tasked;
Providing local assistance to Search and Rescue activities.

(emphasis in bold italics mine)

Mon, 2009-03-16 11:21

#14

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

It's unfortunate that the thread title does not reflect the subject of the article in the National Post, which is about the militarization of Canadian society and further steps towards readiness to create a police state, should the "need" arise.

It's not actually about Guantanamo or the creation of a Canadian version of it, although that could be part of the story at a later date.

Mon, 2009-03-16 11:55

#15

Realigned

Jingles wrote:

Bravo. Mark Fucking Steyn.

Why are you here? Don't you have a hangnail medal to polish?

I kinda missed you

Besides I didn't get a medal for this tour (got one last time). Would be nice if we got a little numeral or something. Do you think you could write your MP on my behalf?

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:00

#16

remind

How does it feel getting a medal for murdering innocents?

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:18

#17

remind

What, are you trying to say you didn't murder any innocent Afghans, while in the course of participating in an illegal war, that is colonial oppression and nothing more???

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:22

#18

Realigned

remind wrote:
How does it feel getting a medal for murdering innocents?

So does this type of comment put up any rabble.ca red flags or is accusing someone of murdering innocent people allowable here at rabble.ca?

I'm curious because I got a 2 week ban for my comment that abuse was a part of afghan culture and almost got my posting privilages 'adjusted' because I didn't post a link above.

Is accusing someone of murder okay if the target of the comment is a Canadian soldier?

Because if I made a comment like this to another rabble member I would be banned in a heartbeat.

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:26

#19

Realigned

I'm asking the moderators here if accusing a fellow rabble member of murder is within the guidelines of the strict posting rules here considering I was banned for accusing the Afghan culture of accepting abuse toward young men.

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:27

#20

Realigned

martin dufresne wrote:

"The interviewee replied it doesn't matter their all infidels anyways."

While we're at it, do you have a name and a media for this "interviewer", or are we to go on second-hand Islam-hating hearsay from a pseudonymous person? It seems strange that you have the punchline down pat, but don't even know whether the ship was sunk.

(How dare anyone think oil tankers have anything to do with Iraq???)

Strange isn't it Martin

It was 7 years ago. The ship sinking or not didn't stick out as much as the comment they made.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/772540/posts

Quote:
.........

After 9/11, Queen Elizabeth, Britain and Australia's head of state, ordered the playing of American patriotic songs at Buckingham Palace. At St. Paul's Cathedral, she sang, for the first time in her life, a foreign national anthem--"The Star-Spangled Banner." It would be nice if America's head of state could make a reciprocal gesture, to let the Australians know that he stands with them as they stood with him. It makes no sense to be so careless and thoughtless about your last three or four real allies. It shows an inability to distinguish between countries almost as dumb as the Islamofascists, [b]whose attitude was neatly summarized by a spokesman for the Islamic Army of Aden the other day, after they'd blown up a French oil tanker in Yemen: "We would have preferred to hit a U.S. frigate," he said, "but no problem, because they are all infidels."[/b]

No problem. They are all infidels. That's the meaning of the Bali bomb: It doesn't matter whether you're a Wall Street trader or a Scandinavian stoner, they hate you all. But the American media seem to operate on a similar principle: They're all foreigners, so who cares? Australia is one of this country's few real friends in the world. We're not just fellow infidels, but brothers on a field of battle that stretches from Manhattan to Bali. If the American media don't understand that, then the American president needs to remind them.

Mark Steyn is senior contributing editor for Hollinger Inc.

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:29

#21

Unionist

According to some people, accusations of murdering innocents are worse than murdering innocents.

It's like learning a whole new moral code.

I guess that's what basic training is for.

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:29

#22

remind

Well, you made false accusations, while I am merely asking a question of you, based on facts.

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:31

#23

Fidel

Theyve got their 9/11 confession from the brown people. Time to fold up this offshore torture gulag and kanagroo military court, and pretend to be a freedom loving democracy, if only for appearance sake.

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:32

#24

Realigned

What false accusations were those?

I'll wait to see what the mods have to say about your comment.

Quote:
You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this discussion board to post any material that is knowingly false and/or defamatory. You agree to avoid personal insults, attacks and mischievous antagonism (otherwise known as "trolling"). You will not post material that is inaccurate, abusive, hateful, harassing, obscene, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy or otherwise violative of any law. You understand that racist, sexist, homophobic, classist (e.g. poor-bashing) and other excluding language is not appropriate on babble. This policy applies to both public and private messages.

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:42

#25

remind

Ah...says he who called martin a martian! :rolleyes: (though I see you have now edited it this morning, in an attempt to try to take the moral high ground, perhaps?)

And I see you edited your last post, and that you are also now denying that your false accusation against Afghans regarding abuse of young men as part of their culture, is indeed false. So you still believe it is true? As you have just said as much, yet again.

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:42

#26

oldgoat

Well, isn't this just magical.

I think we need to look at things in order here.

Realigned: Mark Steyn?? Freerepublic??? I mean either one of those bad enough, but BOTH!!? Ok, the generalisations inherent in your post are pretty much in line with what got you your two week vacation. Your source material is really just an exacerbating factor, although a particularly awful one. You may very well be a sincere human being who's on a learning curve, but you're way too far down that slope for here, so bye.

Remind: Aw come on! I'm sure you mean to say that he's a willing participant in a larger action which is causing the murder of innocents, and not suggesting that he personally goes around doing that. You're not supposed to call people murderers here.

Mon, 2009-03-16 12:48

#27

remind

Well old goat that is a given, no?

Considering I stated; "What, are you trying to say you didn't murder any innocent Afghans, while in the course of participating in an illegal war, that is colonial oppression and nothing more???"

Mon, 2009-03-16 13:01

#28

oldgoat

My own view is that most of the men and women in the armed forces are genuinely duped, and do believe in the grand cause. It's probably been that way for every war in history since the beginning of organized armies though. I've met a few military types over the years, and have never had any problem with them personally, but they do for the most part buy into what's handed down from above.

I think that being over there, in the middle of it, can give you a huge expertise on a very narrow facet, but hinders any real understanding of the bigger picture.

Mon, 2009-03-16 13:02

#29

Unionist

Thanks for standing your ground, remind. I'm quite sure oldgoat agrees with you. Now some thread drift:

Anyone who has spent their lives in mass movements comes to recognizes provocateurs. They assume different shapes and sizes. Sometimes it's easy, like the one who says: "You people are wimps. We need to take some real action here. I know where we can get some _______", fill in the blank. Sometimes it's the passive-aggressive type who constantly needs to be convinced, from first principles, before any action can be taken. Then there are the quiet types, just biding their time or taking notes.

This one was interesting. From the word go, he proclaimed exactly what he was, made no bones about it. But his style - wow - sincere, playful, respectful, sometimes unctuous - what a pleasant change from most trolls, even from some of our beloved regulars (like you and me)! He almost became a cuddly mascot here. But one after another, he introduced his talking points, oh so innocently. Only slipped up once, but came back politely swinging after his suspension.

And then - he started going for the real prize - the enemy. Lure them in, crank them up, get them - reprimanded! Hey, why not banned!! Discredit. Disrupt. And regale the comrades afterwards.

All shapes and sizes. Makes for an interesting world. And it teaches you patience and vigilance.

/end drift.

Mon, 2009-03-16 13:23

#30

remind

Yes Oldgoat, Homer wrote about the "hero" nature and how it is exploited by the war makers quite awhile ago.

Now as for the thread topic apout the military fascism of Canada occuring, it was predictable under harper, but yet people voted for him anyway.

Mon, 2009-03-16 13:48

#31

oldgoat

I'll take your word for it, I haven't watched The Simpsons in a while, but pursuant to Harper, it seems the voters pretty much accept what's handed (shovelled) down from above too.

Mon, 2009-03-16 14:22

#32

remind

Oh you are too funny this day! Homer from The Illiad persuassion I meant.

Thucydides, if remember correctly also addressed this exploitable "hero" aspect of humanity in the Peloponnesian War

Mon, 2009-03-16 15:13

#33

Doug

Unionist][quote=Jingles wrote:

Huh? Our armed forces are trained to befriend Afghan villagers, dig wells, and protect girls on their way to school. Aren't they? Are you suggesting they be removed from those crucial functions in order to deal with terrorists entering Canada on hang-gliders and ice floes!?

Yep. Afghanistan sure isn't crucial. We're doing more harm than good there.

Mon, 2009-03-16 15:32

#34

Newfie

M. Spector wrote:

It's unfortunate that the thread title does not reflect the subject of the article in the National Post, which is about the militarization of Canadian society and further steps towards readiness to create a police state, should the "need" arise.

It's not actually about Guantanamo or the creation of a Canadian version of it, although that could be part of the story at a later date.

You could be right about the title there. I was definitely extrapolating to a (possible) future use of these security/containment areas.

Mon, 2009-03-16 17:57

#35

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

remind wrote:
How does it feel getting a medal for murdering innocents?

How does it feel being a total jerk who is allowed to get away with casually accusing other babblers of murder without a shred of evidence?

Pretty goddam privileged, I bet.

Mon, 2009-03-16 18:04

#36

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

oldgoat wrote:

Realigned: Mark Steyn?? Freerepublic??? I mean either one of those bad enough, but BOTH!!? Ok, the generalisations inherent in your post are pretty much in line with what got you your two week vacation. Your source material is really just an exacerbating factor, although a particularly awful one. You may very well be a sincere human being who's on a learning curve, but you're way too far down that slope for here, so bye.

oldgoat, in relation to an openly fascist troll in another thread, who was eventually banned, wrote:

M. Spector, as far as I've read, kindrid is merely taking a point of view opposed to yours; and indeed to most people here. You may take this as a personal affront, but it is not against policy. Calling people fucking retarded, and elitist fucking assholes is.

If kindrid becomes abusive, or contravenes policy in some way, AND a mod becomes aware of it, then appropriate action can be taken. Meanwhile, there's no rule against merely being wrong.

I guess consistency is just too much to hope for.

Mon, 2009-03-16 18:57

#37

Jingles

If you're the wheelman in a bank heist, and one of your co-conspirators shoots a couple of hostages, you're going down for murder too. Even if you didn't pull the trigger, you participated in the commission of a crime in which a probable outcome would be someone's death.

Mon, 2009-03-16 22:17

#38

Fidel

from the National Ghost piece:

Quote:
"There is a recognition, certainly within the military and we have heard the government say, that domestic security is the number one priority. A number of these conclusions come from the post-9/11 world we live in," said Brigadier-General Jean Collin, commander of the army in Ontario, during an exclusive interview with the National Post

And we all know that the brown people are coming. It goes without saying, or so much as a legitimate investigation and trial for the accused patsies held at Gitmo Gulag, that the brown people acted alone on that fateful day.

And so now we have to murder them on their own soil before they murder more white people over here, on this side of the Atlantic ocean. Apparently that goes without saying, too. Why dont our stooges just hand the keys to Canada over to their Warshington puppet masters, if they havent already done it years ago?

Mon, 2009-03-16 23:30

#39

Michelle

As far as I can tell, remind was scolded for that comment by oldgoat. And guess what? Now you're about to be scolded for calling her a "total jerk".

Could we all just maybe grow up a bit here?

Tue, 2009-03-17 02:21

#40

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

"we"? Is that intended to include you and oldgoat?

Remind completely rejected what you call the "scolding", and was backed up in that by another babbler. Yet her behaviour in this thread has been far worse than that of the guy who got his ass banned. I thought that was worth noting.

Tue, 2009-03-17 09:37

#41

Unionist

M. Spector, remind asked a rhetorical question of a pro-war member of an invading force, about how it feels to get a medal for murdering innocents. I understood her question clearly. Canada's mission in Afghanistan is part of a massive murder of the Afghan people aimed at cowing them into neo-colonial status. The CF, like the other allies, rewards that murderous behaviour. Remind never once accused that person of individually murdering anyone, and it's unclear to me why you are pursuing this point. I fully, absolutely support her question, understood in the proper context. She cut through the nonstop mealy-mouthed bullshit purveyed by that supporter of the murder of the Afghan people, and lo and behold, he displayed his true colours.

ETA: By the way, you're quite correct about kindrid, as most of us have known since kindrid's very first post.

Tue, 2009-03-17 10:46

#42

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

With respect, Unionist, that is horseshit.

Realigned specifically mentioned in the immediately preceding post having received a medal on his last tour in Afghanistan. There was nothing "rhetorical" about remind's question other than to scold him as a murderer. She did not say "how does it feel to be part of a military mission that involves the murder of innocents". That would have been an entirely appropriate question.

There are several present and former members of the CF on babble, as you know, some of whom have served in Afghanistan or other imperialist military adventures in the past. No doubt many of them have received service medals related thereto. If you are trying to excuse remind by saying that all Canadian soldiers are [i]de facto[/i] murderers, then I submit that is an extreme position that is, or rather, ought to be, unacceptable here.

Tue, 2009-03-17 11:02

#43

Michelle

Shall we move this to rabble reactions and change the title of the thread?

Tue, 2009-03-17 11:26

#44

Unionist

M. Spector, I don't want to argue about this. But I make a big distinction between real genuine sincere people (former and current members of the forces), whose opinions I respect and take seriously, such as:

Slumberjack

Webgear

Frmrsldr

... and the fraudulent offensive provocateur kind:

Realigned

So, I didn't look at remind's comment in isolation. If she had addressed it to Webgear, for example, it would have been extremely offensive and unacceptable. But she would not have done that. As for Realigned, it was no holds barred as far as I was concerned.

ETA: Yes, Michelle, it should go to rabble reactions, if indeed there's any more to be said about the topic.

Tue, 2009-03-17 12:07

#45

wwSwimming

Newfie wrote:
"We all know the threat from dirty bombs, chemical contaminants. This is certainly one of the more dangerous situations that can arise," said Brig.-Gen. Collin.
"You can certainly get it from a terrorist act. You can also get it from a man-made disaster. You can get nuclear contamination from a nuclear power plant -- Three Mile Island, Chernobyl.

So Canada sells uranium to the United States, who uses it in nuclear power plants, then spreads the waste in the form of millions of depleted uranium munitions, each of which constitutes a dirty bomb and causes nuclear contamination - and Gen. Collins shares his concern about ... dirty bombs and nuclear contamination.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

http://LASIK-Flap.com ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery

Tue, 2009-03-17 12:35

#46

sock puppet

...more evidence that fascism comes on little cat feet...

Wed, 2009-03-18 07:26

#47

Unbiased

New here.

This thread is making me nervous.

Think about it

Wed, 2009-03-18 07:37

#48

remind

Uh, you joined 2 years hardly new, and I guess all things are equal, your comments in the porn thread more than made me nervous.

Wed, 2009-03-18 08:09

#49

Slumberjack

There were times earlier on where I thought that Realigned may have had a specific mission, because the lines contained many elements that were recognized script, which was coupled with occasional chunks of red meat tossed in for effect. As time went by, that suspicion changed. The slope analogy I believe is a more accurate description than purpose. That he didn't achieve enough tenure to weather the curve, if it was even possible, which I'm not suggesting, is indicative of the gap between the have, and the have-nots. The haves are offered scoldings for accusations of murder, not just merely being an accessory to it, while others enjoy a limited shelf life, exacerbated to a degree by the wear down efforts of the former, in making him appear to be more intentionally sinister than he was.

Wed, 2009-03-18 14:02

#50

500_Apples

What's wrong with calling it Guantanamo?