Private schools under investigation for grade inflation

Why is none of this surprising?

Caissa: "Ther already exists a correlation between economic status of parents and the grades of students." Some of it is understandable: access to a room of one's own, not having to work part-time, access to one's own computer, private tutorials, etc. But this grades-buying is something else!

How would you create a system where there isn't a corelation between parental income and student achievement?

Caissa wrote:

How would you create a system where there isn't a corelation between parental income and student achievement?

How would I? Easy, eliminate parental income from the equation; and thats without getting really radical.

How would a social democrat? They wouldn't; though they might try some fiddling here or there,

Sure something like that

Awfully complicated to get into in more detail here but that'll do!

Sorry Caissa when I said it was to complicated to get into here I meant it; I support a number of extremely radical changes to our society, as do many others here. This forms the background from which we discuss specific issues. Its not necessary to cover it all to focus on a specific issue.

For the purposes of this thread one highly applicable step would be the redistribtion of wealth; so your suggestion fits.

Its actually not easier to expand on that, because discussing the nature of wealth is not relevant to this thread. Also since I cannot paste in Babble anymore I don't have the stamina for all that typing and editing till this board's software is fixed.

Suffice to say (here) that private school and the ability to pay for grades is just a small part of the weight this system places on income.

As long as wealth buys advantage rich kids will have the advantage; as in this case.

But you have lots of questions. Whats your own opinion?

caissa wrote:

May I suggest something as radical of the abolition of grades and a movement to a mastery learning model?

I think that would be great. Would it be compatible with the current economic system? Funny question... like, I just got a new puppy, would it be compatible with this poison?

It means our economic system is based on separating individuals into classes.

Caissa wrote:

The problem as you know is that mastery learning isn't designed to separate the wheat from the chaff. Our current economic system requires that separation, eh?

what that supposed to mean? seperate the wheat and the chaff lol im up early somehow tho goin bacc to sleep cuz lol

edit- Aii Caissa ya it true

Quote:

Some parents, regardless of income, make sure the kids have a quiet space to do their homework, meet with the teachers when needed, and in general provide a more encouraging environment for the kids to learn. It doesn't take money or a whole lot of time to do these things.

It absolutely does take money and a lot of time to do those things. Its pretty damn hard for a single parent working 2 crummy jobs to do those things. Try and consider the perspective of other from time to time...

Why the hell does that matter?

And it amuses me that you think you can dismiss other people's opinions without considering their merits, based on the poster's demographics. Wait, not amuses... infuriates?

It's Me D, you're the one who told Sineed to "consider the perspective of the other for a change".  Sineed is a parent and shared her observations with us on this subject (which she's clearly qualified to comment on, having experienced the school system as a parent first-hand) and you did not consider her perspective, while demanding that she consider someone else's.  Which led to her question about whether you're a parent - which I took as a way of making the point that you should also consider her perspective.

You made an excellent point, and I agree with it, that being involved in children's schooling and making sure to attend parent-teacher interviews and making time for homework and being able to provide a quiet space where the child can do homework is very difficult if you can't afford a home with quiet space, and if you are working long hours for minimum wage and you don't have much time.  But you could have made that point without assuming that Sineed doesn't "consider the perspective of the other". 

Maybe she does, and she's just observing that parents who are ABLE to make time and provide space for their kids to learn get better results.  Maybe she wanted to get the point across that there are lots of low-income parents out there who DO get involved in their kids' education, not as a way of demonizing those who can't, but as a way of ensuring that we don't generalize about an entire class of people and how they raise their children.  Probably the poorest woman I knew at one point (she was on social assistance) did a darn good job of checking her kids' homework, helping them with it, staying in touch with their teachers, etc. 

Perhaps Sineed was recognizing that these efforts happen, to good effect, in many low income families.  Maybe that was the point she was trying to make as opposed to the negative intent you assumed she had in saying what she did.

Nobody said you couldn't have an opinion because you don't have kids.  That's ridiculous.  The point she was making (and I was making) is that her perspective and experience is just as important as anyone else's, including yours.

It's amazing to me that you have no problem suggesting in a rather condescending way that Sineed doesn't have the same insight that you do on the subject, but then you take such offence at Sineed returning your condescension with the suggestions that perhaps you don't have the same insight as she does, as a parent.

Michelle: I disagreed with a statement made by sineed, she disagreed with my demographics. That was always, to the best of my knowledge, against Babble policy; but I guess things changed with the new Babble... I'll bare this in mind.

An add'l observation from someone who has been a parent and has observed many of his friends who are. Children who alternate between homes usually get more help and schooling involvement from a relatively poor mother - even when she has to work longer hours, in and out of the home - than from a relatively rich father, who often tends to park them in front of the TV or a video game while attending to his own projects during the weeks he has them. (Not to say there aren't good fathers offering this support equally, I just haven't seen many.) This is also confirmed by primary and secondary schoolteachers' testimony about which parent tends to come to school and seek solutions to kids falling back.

Michelle wrote:

I was just saying that you were upset with her for doing the same thing to you that you did to her.

I was upset that my opinion on this subject was dismissed because I am not a parent; Sineed is perfectly allowed to disagree with my opinion and I'd welcome it if she chose to do so. I did not dismiss Sineed's argument on the grounds that she is a parent, I disagreed on the grounds that its an unrealistic view. Now my concern over this been dismissed by a moderator; I'm certainly not any less upset as a result.

I just want to make sure I have I got the new rules straight:

Only parents can comment on childrens' issues? I assume this logic applies to other issues as well?

Bubbles wrote:

One of my kids thought he knew how to drive a car, because he has studied, read all about it and had others seen doing it. Till he actualy got behind the wheel.

 

ya ill agree parenting like that but at the same time if u workin 2 jobs u really dont have time str8 up.

My point is as a parent I'm not sure  I know much more than non-parents. Sorry if that was unclear.

I went through this debate on my thesis topic which fits broadly into the field of the Holocaust. Some think only Jews should write on this topic and I am not Jewish.

Caissa: Sorry, I wasn't sure, thanks for clarifying ... I edited your name out of that last post.

Quote:

I went through this debate on my thesis topic which fits broadly into the field of the Holocaust. Some think only Jews should write on this topic and I am not Jewish.

Yes thats the sort of problem I'm concerned about. I can see it from both sides, because there are advantages to creating space for the affected group to discuss; for example I'd actually appreciate it if only drug users were allowed to comment on drug policy... however in too many cases I think all such a rule does is silence discussion.

It's Me D wrote:

Bubbles wrote:

One of my kids thought he knew how to drive a car, because he has studied, read all about it and had others seen doing it. Till he actualy got behind the wheel.

I'm not claiming to know more about parenting than Sineed or anyone else, and I'm certainly not telling Sineed how to raise her kids, could people please just read the thread and respond to what has been said.

Sineed can raise her kids however she wants. She should not however, be able to dismiss my opinion on this subject as a son if not a father (and one coming from a low-income background myself), that it isn't a given for all parents to have the time and money to challenge systemic disadvantages against low-income kids getting a good education, dismiss it on the grounds that I am not a parent (without even responding to the post in question); that is effectively blaiming the poor for not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and then hiding behind one's kids when questioned about it.

Whether I am "behind the wheel" or not shouldn't be a requirement for understanding or having an opinion on childrens' issues. Though since Sineed, Michelle, and you think it is, I've already said I would defer to this, if Michelle will directly state that this is the policy so I know the ground rules around here.

If you read my comment it does not say anywhere that you can not express your opinion.

Helping kids with their school work does not have to be all that time, and money consuming as Sineed pointed out. That is my experience also. I have been very poor too, strangely I did not find it a traumatic experience, It actualy gave me a lot of time, because of lack of work, to do family oriented things. Such as teach my kids to cook, have a garden, make clothing, go fishiong , look for wild foods, make maple syrup, etc. In general make do with what one has.

Not having a TV was a huge asset too.