Was Gordon Campbell's Carbon Tax a Success?

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mybabble
Was Gordon Campbell's Carbon Tax a Success?

Who is the Greenest in the Land?  If you guessed PEI you got it right as they came in first while the other 5 communities followed for their commitment to the environment.  And who would have thought despite the carbon tax train ridership has pretty much stayed the same at 12% as trains are not about the money they are about the ride.  So although the tax may be helping out Mr. Campbell and of course the bundle the advertisers got for their part but its a big fat failure for taking much needed money and blowing in the wind.  And he  isn't doing much with that expect a bunch of hot air as green initiatives don't get the green light from the premier.  Who would have thought?

http://www.canadianliving.com/life/green_living/canadas_greenest_communities_3.php

mybabble

And despite all the hype about getting people to go green by giving them a couple hundred bucks which was oh so lame, apparently because BC is not even mentioned.  And the carbon tax has managed to drive up costs at a time when consumers are cost sensitive and its looks like rather than take the train and shop they would rather just stay home. 

remind remind's picture

Ya, well my hydro bill went up 150/month from last winter and it wasn't our consumption!

Adam T

"And who would have thought despite the carbon tax train ridership has pretty much stayed the same at 12% as trains are not about the money they are about the ride. "

 

I don't understand this.
Do you mean buses or Sky Train instead of trains?

Do you mean trains are running at 12% of capacity?

Or that 12% of the trips taken by people are taken by train. 12% seems incredibily high. 

It could be that the trains are operating at capacity at peak hours therefore, except during the non peak hours, there is simply no ability to increase the use of trains, except with more trains. 

ReeferMadness

The amount of the carbon tax (a few cents a litre) isn't enough to even begin to change consumer behaviour.  People complain about the price of gas but even when the price triples over the course of a few years, everyone still drives.

There is nothing inherently wrong with using taxation policy to change people's behaviour for the better of society but there are three things that are wrong with this implementation.

First, as I said, the amount of tax wasn't enough to change anyone's behaviour.

Second, it needs to make some allowance for people who can't change their lifestyles.

Third, taxation policy is discriminatory in any society with a level of inequality as high as ours.

remind remind's picture

Ya, like people in northern BC, paying at least a 1/3 more for hydro because of the tax. Whereas people on the coast and VIsland are not as unduly affected.

Because if you use more hydro than what is considered "normal", then you get penalized again on top of the tax for being a high consumer.

Pkus lower income families are not going to have brand new energy efficient homes to keep their consumption for heating lower. This tax has SFA to do with gas consumption and everything to do with further  marginalizing poor people.

Golbez

A success for the government!

Is there any proof that the funds have been used for 'green' projects? I'm curious to see. Knowing Gordo, the money is simply being funnelled to corporate buds who build projects that are labelled 'green' simply for aesthetics. 

 A simple tax is not nearly enough for people to stop driving, especially when gas is now cheaper than it was during the summer. Cash grab, nothing more. 

mybabble

April fool or April's fool which is it as mother nature plays a cruel joke or maybe what's she's saying is quite fooling yourself?  As its snowing outside and its spring and I live in Vancouver what's the future have in store for the weather and is it going to be hot or cold?  Or maybe just lukewarm. 

And the train thing I was reading an article about the failure of the trains to attract the desired ridership and the 12% was quoted and it had not changed sorry no more details at the moment.  As its was clear we were not in it for the money as trains ususally are a losing proposition but that we were in it for the ride.  I guess the bottom line is how much line for the buck and is it the Canadian Line or the Canadian Lie?  If I come across the piece again in my travels the information will be yours.

I know my part in this whole scheme of things isn't what it could be and since it could go either way that is Hot or Cold I'm doing my part from here on in because the thought of Cold Weather just gives me goose bumps. 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/wide/index.ssf?lanina.html

jas

remind wrote:
Ya, well my hydro bill went up 150/month from last winter and it wasn't our consumption!

^ $150/[i]month[/i], remind? That seems extraordinary. What were you paying before, if you don't mind me asking, and why would rural homeowners consume that much more hydro than urban? 

Has something changed with BC Hydro? I know several years ago there was talk that he would sell it. Did he ever do it? Or maybe he's just prepping the company for ultimate sale, making it more profitable now?

 

mybabble

I disagree with you about the carbon tax as the cost is added to consumer products during a recession and has dire negative consequences for a already struggling business who is trying to keep his costs down as fuel adds up especially when the costs are the highest across the country because of added taxes as BC already had the highest fuel taxes.  And for families shopping the grocery isles find they can't shop they way they used to as despite the cost of fuel going down it has failed to do that at the pumps and the cruise ships also find a new dock to bay at siting a cost conscience consumer and its going to hurt you bet.

mybabble

jas wrote:

remind wrote:
Ya, well my hydro bill went up 150/month from last winter and it wasn't our consumption!

^ $150/[i]month[/i], remind? That seems extraordinary. What were you paying before, if you don't mind me asking, and why would rural homeowners consume that much more hydro than urban? 

Has something changed with BC Hydro? I know several years ago there was talk that he would sell it. Did he ever do it? Or maybe he's just prepping the company for ultimate sale, making it more profitable now?

My bill is high also and I do believe the rates are going up actually I'm certain as was reading hydro was going up considerably but I'm certain the Liberals are waiting for the election to pass before residents feel the pinch.  And I understand If the NDP choice to take back BC Hydro they could given they are the elected party and they have enough seats. 

ReeferMadness

Twenty years ago, BC Hydro offered cheap rates as an incentive for people to switch their heat to electricity under a program called electric plus or something like that.  I  bought my house a few years ago and one of the selling features was that this house is on the program.

Now, they are phasing out the program.  On top of that, the punitive rate structure (anyone who uses more than 1350 kWh per two month period pays a higher rate) virtually guarantees everyone who heats their home with electricity will be doing so at the highest rate.  In many cases, they will be penalizing the very people they lured into electic heat in the first place.

mybabble

Went looking for the in depth article on translink and how its a losing proposition because it just wasn't getting the ridership translink had hoped for and was being heavily subsidized by government.  But there were some good pieces here on translink and of course I am for translink for sure as what ever we can do to save the planet go for it but turning a losing proposition over to private hands whats that about?  Oh and don't forget a police force of a hundred when policing costs have sky rocketed and have them hunting down people who didn't have the correct spare change another no brainer while drugs are being sold across the street?

http://www.bclocalnews.com/surrey_area/surreyleader/opinion/41941937.html

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Did anyone actually read the article?

mybabble

Here is an article I read today in the province where Smyth talks of the revenue of a Billion and a half dollars from Carbon Tax that the NDP want to drop but Smyth says unrealistic as province counts on the revenue to survive during recessionary times.  And I agree it may be hard to roll it back but stop it in its madding tracks sure why not and if revenue is needed do it in a way that such hardship isn't imposed on business and cost conscience consumers.  As although recent survey showed ridership up in late 2008 as much as 2.5% as 20% of new riders site cost of gas while others new routes,immigration, etc.  I have been the lone rider on the train so its safe to say the train is half empty as despite record numbers of immigration coming into the province in late 2008 there was also record unemployment which continues on its downturn and its safe to say provinces experiencing the worst unemployment are those with the highest immigration as immigration was supposed to increase demand and create employment.  Well what went wrong as its kinda like taking a train to nowhere land with out a nowhere job and make sure you have the correct change?  Or you could be in some serious trouble with the cops.  I also understand the tourism industry has been affected because of cost conscience consumers along with the recent shooting have tourists looking for spots more to their likings while they take their Billions with them.

Golbez

Using Smyth's logic, the government could invoke x% tax to generate x billion$ (say a 10% tax on milk). Then, it would be 'unrealistic' to revoke that tax because the gov't would then be losing out on all of that extra revenue. Then again, why expect any differently from Michael Smyth?

 

Gas crept over $1.00/litre in Vancouver and Burnaby recently. Perhaps people will start the feel the pinch a bit more and remember how Gordon's been gouging them at the pumps.

 

As for the original article, I really wish more people looked at themselves at part of the nature cycle, and didn't treat the Earth like a vending machine. (take take take). I always admired the old Native ways (take what you need, and give back to the land), in contrast to the Scortched Earth ways of our European ancestors (clear cutting, etc). Don't expect people to give up their comfortable lifestyles any day soon. I know I'd have a hard time with it Innocent

Stockholm

"Here is an article I read today in the province where Smyth talks of the revenue of a Billion and a half dollars from Carbon Tax that the NDP want to drop but Smyth says unrealistic as province counts on the revenue to survive during recessionary times."

That makes no sense at all. Campbell and his shills went to great lengths to assure everyone that the carbon Tax was to be "revenue neutral" since they were going to redistribute any money collected from it in the form of rebate cheques etc...

If the Carbon Tax is "revenue neutral", then getting rid of it is ipso-facto also "revenue neutral".

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Couldn't locate the Smyth article so found this.... it's from 2008 but it sheds some light. Revenue neutral, sounds to me they are depending on it?

Quote:
The Campbell government estimates the carbon tax will bring in $1.8 billion over three years. That means the feds will collect an additional $92 million by charging GST on the carbon tax.

Some businesses will be able to recover the GST on their tax returns, but individual consumers will not. Universities, hospitals, charities and non-profit organizations will also get hit with the double-whammy.

The bottom line: The Harper government will reap more than $30 million in profit during the first three years of the B.C. carbon tax -- all while Harper's Tories are campaigning against it, according to accounting firm BDO Dunwoody in a recent analysis.

Michael Smyth: Feds making a fortune off our carbon tax

 

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

artizan,com

 

Quote:
Not to mention a two tier system to encourage people to a saving of standards set by BC Hydro that is being decimated by infrastructure changes by the BC Liberals to move toward a privatization, while saying, we will not sell off.

So this "two tier system" while not the highlight of a plan to provide treatment in Health-care according to the money you have, why not apply this thinking to "charge people more" for how you go over a set target so that we can capitalize on how much more we can charge them for the energy?

So, the BC Utilities Commission has become nothing more then the fairness determining factor that said yes this is okay.

Nothing more then an attempt by to BC Liberals to capitalize on a profit orientation to move the standard and cost of energy to a new high? So we have not sold it off, but we have fractured the corporation into small chunks, and we can provide the coffers with more money with which to continue with our plan to privatize.

Gangs in Formation