Susan Boyle

Her composure even before the song began, when everyone was snickering at her was inspiring.  She said she'd never been given the chance before, in response to being asked why she hadn't yet realized her dream of becoming a professional singer.  It seemed that with every note that she sang, it towered over all the obstacles and societal limitations that had ever been placed in her way.

Call me cynical but I feel she's being used.

It's funny, I read the article that Mycroft linked to above, and from the description of the woman, I thought when I watched the video that she was going to be absolutely ogrish, like, really out-of-the-ordinary ugly.  And then I saw the video.  I mean, she's kind of plain (by conventional standards - I'm not a big believer in those), but she's not horribly ugly or anything! 

In fact, from the interview beforehand, she seems quite charming and funny.  I'd say that most people aren't all that great looking, but it's their personality lighting up their features that make them attractive.  Which is why so many people aren't "photogenic", or feel like they look way worse in pictures than they do in real life.  Because in real life, your personality is mitigating your visual flaws, or perhaps even highlighting them in a way that makes them attractive.

I've been with guys before who, when people asked me if they were "hot" or "good-looking", I hesitate.  Because if you just go by looks completely, most of them have been kind of average (although a few have been quite nice looking by society's standards), and one or two have been downright plain.  And yet, I thought they were all the most beautiful people when I was with them, and loved their looks because of their facial expressions, their mannerisms, their laughter, etc.  And I don't mean that I liked them in spite of their looks - I mean that I felt as attracted to their looks as I would had they had model looks, and felt good whenever I looked at them because they were THEM.  So my hesitation would come in because I would think the guy was absolutely lovely, but I knew that without knowing the guy, others might just sort of shrug and think he was plain.

People are beautiful.  Interesting how, the older I get, the less I get asked that sort of question when talking about someone I'm seeing.  I used to get that question all the time when I was in my 20's and the subject of boyfriends or spouses came up.  I think as people get older, though, the "model" type of good looks becomes much less important.  If anything, I find that people in my life generally think about other people's looks, if they're in the judging mood at all, in terms of whether the person is making the most of what they've got, as opposed to whether they've got model looks to begin with.

I also often wonder whether my feelings about this would be different if I were conventionally gorgeous or had "model looks".  Sometimes I think it's a blessing in disguise to be ordinary or plain, because as you grow to accept yourself and even see some beauty in yourself, I think you see beauty in others who are not conventionally beautiful.  And life is so much more pleasant when you can see beauty in all the people around you, as opposed to feeling like everyone is ugly or plain. :)

I think this Susan Boyle thing is a sad commentary on our society.  It constantly amazes me how, even in this day and age where it is commonplace for women to be out in the workforce and many are working alongside men doing the same jobs, that this blatantly sexist drivel continues.  For goodness sake, she is a good singer; but these talent shows are full of good singers!!  Is Susan Boyle an exceptionally good singer or is all the hype really about a less than conventionally attractive woman having a singing voice that could realistically land her a recording contract, world tour and/or long career on British Broadway?  I suspect the latter, hence my disgust at our so-called educated society continuing to treat people like Ms Boyle as though they were circus freaks-- but neither am I a musical expert so I may be missing something here?   

Unionist wrote:

Thanks, Jerk Jaws, I'm with you. She seems to have had some voice training, but personally I find her voice grating - confirmed by listening to her "Cry Me A River" in 1999. More importantly, I find the whole spectacle revolting. Tanya Gold (see OP) said it best:

Quote:

Susan will probably win Britain's Got Talent. She will be the little munter that could sing, served up for the British public every Saturday night. Look! It's "ugly"! It sings! And I know that we think that this will make us better people. But Susan Boyle will be the freakish exception that makes the rule. By raising this Susan up, we will forgive ourselves for grinding every other Susan into the dust. It will be a very partial and poisoned redemption. Because Britain's Got Malice. Sing, Susan, sing - to an ugly crowd that doesn't deserve you.

I will sit up and take notice when human rights legislation in Canada and elsewhere is amended to prohibit discrimination in employment, provision of services, etc. on the ground of personal appearance. Short of that societal advance, the beatification of Susan Boyle and like phenomena will represent self-gratifying tokenism, not progress.

 

I agree with you overall unionist. This episode did not warm my heart or anything like that. I found her voice grating and the worldwide amazement that someone who is supposedly "ugly" can carry a tune very revealing.

Your human rights proposal might cause problems for modelling agencies, strip clubs, escort services and Hooters when trying to hire - would it not?

Ghislaine wrote:

Your human rights proposal might cause problems for modelling agencies, strip clubs, escort services and Hooters when trying to hire - would it not?

Hopefully, yes, it would.

But no more than the already existing (but unenforced) prohibitions on age discrimination.

Pride for Red Dolores wrote:

She's a role model for women evereywhere.

Guaranteed-- but only if she doesn't get that makeover she's apparently considering.  It's too bad we will not see the same woman on her next appearance   And, I went back and watched both performances on You Tube-- and now firmly believe that a latter-day Andrew Lloyd Webber or even Lord Andy himself, will be calling Susan very soon.  She is a wonderful singer!!  You Go, Girl!!   

I sang in choirs when I was younger, and met a few folks along the way with considerable vocal ability and talent whose entire careers were spent in local groups (usually church related).  They did it, in part, for the enjoyment of their community but mostly because they felt a need to sing.  I allowed them to say things they could not articulate any other way.

I expect that whatever training Susan Boyle has had over the years came from a similar experience. It is clear that she is a shy person when speaking, and uncertain of how to respond.  She was so petrified she had to grope for the word "villages" while being questioned by Simon What's-it. 

I pity those who listened to her and were unable to hear what she expressed.  The piece she performed is a lament for dreams unrealized by someone whom fate has scorned.  It was sung by someone whose whole heart was in its expression and who understood its meaning in ways that are more fundamental than mere analysis. I expect that there is no point in discussng this with anyone who would describe Ms. Boyle's performance or her voice as grating. You are deaf in ways you cannot imagine.

I hate these stupid shows for reasons others have already articulated.  I am glad, however, that Susan Boyle saw this spectacle as a chance to be heard and risked ridicule and contempt to get in front of the cameras.  Of course she is being used; the system uses us all. But every so often the bastards end up having their smugness thrown back in their faces.  This is one of those times and I am grateful to her for that almost as much as for the extraordinary gift of her singing.

I am not sure why it is so surprising given the last internet sensation from this very same show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k08yxu57NA

Is the man humourless in addition to being rude? Tune in next week for the answer.

To follow up to Makwa's point...there seems to be a divide between those singers (or actors or whatever) categorized as 'stars" versus those who are "talented". I mean, look at opera, the very originator of the idea of "fat lady sings...". Luciano Pavorati wasn't much to look at but is revered as an insaely talented singer in a way that some boy band singer never will be. You get the same with actors and actresses. Philip Seymour Hoffman is well regarded as a terific actor but he's unlikely to get "leading man" roles that will go to people with half his talent but who are more handsome.

For those who are being critical of her singing abilities it is worth noting that she is an amateur who is singing live not only in front of an audience that is much larger than I would imagine she has ever faced but also in front of Cameras for a National television show.This would be daunting even for a professional. Most singing that we tend to hear is not live and professionals have had the training coaching and experience that is necessary to shape talent. There are also a number of voice modulating technologies that are utilized by many pro's usually those with weaker voices but even those with amazing voices depend on getting the right mix, effects etc that highligts there voice, someone coming on a show like this is not going to have that luxurey.

Having said that I find her voice gorgeous powerful and deeply soulful even though I'm not a fan of show tunes. I don't get the grating comments but I suppose taste is taste. Personally I don't find a powerful and evocative expression of the human soul as ever being grating.

I'm also not (for a change) being overly cynical in terms of peoples response (beyond the idiot judges) to this song, I think many people were genuinely moved not only by her powerful voice but also by her pluck. I agree with Michelle I was found her charming and endearing before she ever sang. I also like Makway believe that people long for genuine authentic creative expressions from the heart and it is rare in the mediated manipulated culture to experience that so when we do we are genuinely moved.

N.R.KISSED wrote:

For those who are being critical of her singing abilities it is worth noting that she is an amateur who is singing live not only in front of an audience that is much larger than I would imagine she has ever faced but also in front of Cameras for a National television show.

I don't think anyone is really crititiquing the technical aspects of her singing, which is obviously first rate. I didn't actually find in remarkable in terms of its delivery, but rather to be standard fair for people who have trained that kind of voice for themself.  I personally preferred the torch arrangement in her earlier recorded preformance to the televised one, it had way more charchater. Even then it's rock solid. But, as in the Stanley Cup playoff's, as solid performance is always safer than a flashy one, so I can see why she used the stock delivery in televised piece.

Wow. very revealing debate. Bookish Agrarian introduced us to the previous winner above, and its good that he did because we can see the that the trope is repeated, complete with the point where the smirking derrision of the judges is overcome in the miraculous moment of "discovery". I am sure the show also takes care to make sure that there are enough "wannabes" and embarrassed blooper clowns to make fun of in order to make the diamond in the rough Cinderella theme believable, as well was entertaining.

Fact is that Susan Boyle doesn't have a chance, and never had a chance and is only useful in as much as she plays to the set up trope of the show, and it definitely is a set up and a trope, and Susan, and her B+/A- rock solid but not too adventurous MOR singing voice is only useful in as much as it plays to the trope, and the chimera of rags to riches super stardom, which is regularly doled out by the corporates media as an example to others that "anything is possible," even when we are talking about frumpy middle aged women from Scotland.

Keep on dreaming folks!

That said I like Susan and if she can get some headway here for herself against the tide of corporate class warfare in the UK and some respect, all the more power to her. That personal achievement should not be underated.

My ex-Scotish, Celtics fan, ex-gf, once made the comment in reference to one of my relatives that the "empire was founded on old battleaxes like that". This episode reminded me of that for some reason: Respect.

Back in the day, when pre-packaged music was not delivered up in every possible nook and cranny of our society from elevators to bars, people had every reason and opportunity to hone their talents, and many did so. Not so long ago music was indeed the domain of the ordinary person, and it only became commodified with the advent of radio and TV, which has literally drowned out the voice of the ordinary man or woman, and even the institution of the "local" band, and replaced the local pub hero with an easily commodifiable star system, where the "talent" is centralized and commodifiable.

It is even a material fact, enforced by the way music is disseminated: All other voices simply can not be heard above the cacophany eminating from every possible electronic conduit availalble.

The music industry is predicated upon controlling the media in such a way that corporations can control the "talent'. In order to do so it limits the access to choice in the market place by forwarding "talent A" over "talent B". By eliminating "talent B" from the market place by not allowing it access to the radio, or to distribution in stores, or to promotion on television, the consumer is not aware even of the existance of "talent B". Profit is about strategically positioning the company so that it controls the market, and offering limited choice for selection.

In fact, the whole show is premised on the "suprise" and "shock" caused by the idea that such "talent B" could even be possible in the form of a frumpy middle aged villager from Scotland, outside of the label system. That is how succesful the industry has been at positioning itself as the arbiter of taste through controlling the market. No one would have been shocked or suprised 100 years ago at the appearance of a voice enabled middle aged Scotish villager. They would, indeed, expect such a person.

 "Contracts" essentially guarantee nothing in terms of promotion or payment, but instead offer a "partnership" model where the label is lending the money to the artist predicated on the basic principle that all costs incurred in the production, distribution and marketing of the product will be recouped against the future profits of the CD. This is a very convenient arrangement since essentially other than covering the costs of inhouse production facilities, and salaries of a few people the label actually invests nothing, while at the same time assessing the value of those services way above the actual costs incurred by the label.

It is not as if the A&R people just throw up all the sticks in the air and say: "pick what you want!". No they select talent, and then the marketing department then exclude as many competing options as possible. It is even a known practice to deliberately sign artists that are competative in a particular market precisely for the purpose of gaining the rights to an artist work so that their work can be controlled and then submerged in the market simply by not promoting the product, something which essentially costs the label nothing since they invested nothing other than the basic cost of making a recording. This is done in order to preference the work of artists established in a particular genre which the label also controls, by promoting one and not the other.

Susan Boyle does not have a chance of being a succesful music star, except, as I pointed out, as she plays to the set up trope of the  Cinderella routine. She might be able to get some milage out of that I suppose, but the music industry is not interested in Susan Boyles voice, they are interested in controlling it.

She was tartly dismissed even, when the third judge instructed her that: "you can go back to the village with your head held high".

I suppose that deserves some analysis in terms of how class relationships are overtly expressed in Britain as opposed to the US and Canada where the myth that class doesn't really exist in the realm of the social is more essential to the ruling ideology.

Thanks for answering Cueball. I'm more clear on what you are saying now.

To my chagrin, I realize that my contribution is not even remotely feminist in thought.  Oopsy, sorry.  Just wondering, why couldn't Ms. Boyle find some cross-over success like Rita MacNeil?  Every singer doesn't have to be young and conventionally attractive.

There are an incredible amount of untalented people who go on these glorified talent shows  to make nothing but a mockery of the program. Good on them, but I think it is rediculous for folks here to criticize the judges or audience for being apprehensive about Ms. Boyle or her ass wiggling episode before her audition.  Talented she was, and good on her to take the step that may offer her a more prosperous futures.

 Cueball. So what? Take away the contrived editing, the 'story' that was created for the 'showbiz' aspect of that segmant and you still have Ms. Boyle getting up on that stage in front of millions of people and singing her heart out because despite it all that's what she wanted to do and she was good. Really good.  That's what many are responding too. With all of the numbers of people who are now viewing that segmant around the world due to the wonders of the nets I don't expect that the majority have even, will even watch the whole show or really care much about the show. People aren't responding to the whole thing in the context of the show but to the single performance and if the commentary that follows those viewings is any indication, for a myriad of different reasons. The biggest conclusion it seems is that people want to hear her sing more whether it's on the show or somewhere else because for whatever reasons her actual singing touched them.

I'm not sure about last years winner. I didn't see it. The year before that's winner, awkward car phone sales guy who had the crazy desire to sing opera,  won and went on to have a pretty decent career doing what he wanted to do and is still doing it, with success, two years later. He's sold over two million records world wide, tours in some pretty major venues (for Opera) , has won some pretty major awards just this year and his first record was ranked the number four classical record in the world. Mainly though, he gets to sing and people like to listen to him sing. Why is that such a bad thing? Sure he's not going to change the world, or provide some sort of profound statement on the state of society and the 'showbiz' industry but why does he have too. He just wants to sing because he loves it.  I don't think you can base his success and people wanting to listen to him only on the fact that he played under dog guy on some two bit talent show two years ago. One of my relatives got his album last year, loves it and until yesterday didn't have a clue that he even was on that show. They just heard him somewhere, liked it and got it.  My husband, who likes Opera for some reason, after viewing some youtube videos yesterday when I discovered them after looking at Boyle, loved him and now has his album on his B-day wish list. He could care less about the stupid show. He just likes what he heard.

Back to the OP and the whole question of Susan Boyle story. Since I read about it hear before I ever watched it I couldn't get a full honest reaction myself to what I saw. I knew when she walked out on stage that she was going to do well and wasn't one of those people that they put into shows like this for the audience to mock and cringe at in the OMG that's painful way.  Even so I was still surprised when she opened her mouth. I liked her singing and it did move me, beyond just, wow decent singer who can carry a tune. 

So anyways I tried my own experiment with two people who hadn't heard of Boyle or the story.  When they got home I had the Cry Me a River song just playing in the background without comment. They both like that music and both commented on that song and asked who it was because they really liked it. I said I wasn't sure it was just some random music I found on the nets. They then tried to figure out who it was and went through a bunch of well known singers but couldn't place it.  Then about ten minutes later I loaded up the Susan Boyle segmant and said with a big grin, "Oh hey you gotta check this out."   Well they both laughed when they saw her, one raised a eyebrow and the wiggle brought some rolling of the eyes. Before she started singing, one did say "Is she any good, cause I can't watch these shows that purposely put people on to embarass them. I hate them."  I just shrugged. Then she started singing and both were floored. "Holy shyte that's amazing," was one comment and then just a bunch of smiles and grins and really when it came down to it they just enjoyed it and enjoyed her singing.  After it was over I filled them in on some of the background and more smiles and grins. Really it just made them happy.   I did say, 'well look both of you laughed and giggled and acted much like the people on the show did."  One was a little embarassed and the other said 'yeah, but that's what a lot of these shows do on purpose and it stinks but it's hard not to think that way. That's one of the reasons I hate watching these type of shows because I hate thinking like that. It makes me feel horrible."  We talked some more about manipulation of the medium, shows like this and what they do, about looks and perception verses talent, ageism and a whole bunch of other things similar to some of peoples comments here.  It's not that they were mistaken on how it all works or didn't get what was going on, or that in the background there was production manipulation or any of that.  They just really liked Susan Boyle, connected with her when she was singing, despite all of the background noise and crap and were glad that someone like her, who normally wouldn't have a chance because she doesn't 'fit' with mainstream music norm,  to get up on stage because they liked and really enjoyed hearing HER sing, so much so that they played the song part over three times.

After all that I told them that the song I was playing when they got home was actually her ten years ago. More surprise, but happy surprise. That's great. I'm glad she's getting a chance. If she continues to sing like that I hope she does more. I hope the music people don't screw her up too much because I really liked it.

I think that meta type analysis has it's place. I think that talking about 'why' is important. I think that a certain level of cynisim is warrented in this media contrived age but I also think that sometimes despite it all it really is just about heart, passion and singing and people responding to that, despite the venue that they hear it from.

Maybe you should speak for yourself Unionist.  Are you connected to the minds of all adults and youth who are or have at one time been in that situation?  I don't think so but yes I get it, you just know somehow. If her example doesn't speak to you fair enough but you don't speak for everyone. 

The message to me is that some people can hear things that others can't, or won't.  Strip away the TV program and the personalities of the hosts and audience in all it's ugliness, and just listen to the voice and the message contained within the choice of the song.  Emphasising appearance in the debate just plays into what everyone else is discussing, which shows were we are really at with it, not far removed from what we are condemning.

Some people just refuse to see the forest for the trees.  Yep it is all contrived clap trap.  But Ms Boyle is real.  That's what people are responding to.  In a world of fakery, a real person was able to shove her foot in the door and flip them all the bird.  Good for her, and the rest of us get to imagine for a moment we had her courage to try to do it too.

I think that the attention given to Ms Boyle is a sign that our capitalist societies are on the verge of realizing that things in general are broken. With currently existing capitalism, usually only the best of the best are rewarded for their talents. And then those elite groups of people are paid ridiculous amounts of money and tends to reflect the overall elitist structure of our socieities.

And the tiny few who do manage to enter into professional entertainer stardom, good looks also tend to be a factor. Economist [url=/http://creativeclass.com/][color=blue]Richard Florida[/color][/url] appeared on CBC's The Hour a week or two ago. And he talked about how some of the largest cities in the USA  "get it" while the flyover states don' seem to get it. He says major change is needed, and that we should nurture a creative class of people. Perhaps in a more modern and progressive economy, talented people like Ms Boyle will be encouraged a lot moreso than now.

Quote:

She knew the whole drivelling song by heart, it seemed. Her voice floated upward with the sweet summer air, very tuneful, charged with a sort of happy melancholy. One had the feeling that she would have been perfectly content, if the June evening had been endless and the supply of clothes inexhaustible, to remain there for a thousand years, pegging out diapers and singing rubbish. It struck him as a curious fact that he had never heard a member of the Party singing alone and spontaneously. It would even have seemed slightly unorthodox, a dangerous eccentricity, like talking to oneself. Perhaps it was only when people were somewhere near the starvation level that they had anything to sing about.

Some of you might recognize the source, but it is from here.