super thermite found in 9/11 dust from WTC towers

Tommy_Paine wrote:

I think there's something more fundamental going on with conspiracy theories.   I think there's a large number of people who just prefer to think that life can't be stood on it's head by a collection of religious fanatics taking down two sky scrappers, or some looney in a book depository taking out a President. 

Not just two skyscrapers but also a third WTC building which no airplane collided with.

And yes, the House senate committee on assassinations concluded after several years of investigation that the JFK murder was a conspiracy. They concluded that if Oswald was the rifleman who killed JFK, it was highly likely that there were more people involved than him. Oswald maintained all along that he was "just a patsy" before being murdered himself.

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They'd prefer an evil conspiracy because, evil though it may be, it indicates some sort of control, and allows them to live in denial about how easily the whole apple cart can be upset by random events

Are you suggesting that any particular US government since WW II was incapable of doing evil?

I think some clever non-truthers on the left have suggested that 9/11 was too insignificant an event and too few people killed to merit pursuing, and that the vicious empire is guilty of far more than just murdering 3,000 people on 9/11. That's true, but the 9/11 narrative is somewhat critical to the new colder war and global phony war on terror. Because at the same time, colder war hawks are using 9/11 as the basis for perpetrating far more evil than what occurred on that fateful day in New York. The official 9/11 report is even more suspect than the very slip-shod Warren Commission report, which was so slip shod that it warranted a second official US government investigation in 1976.

In addition to the slip shod 9/11 report, we have a continuing dearth of actual evidence as to who planned and excuted 9/11 terror. The evidence they do purport to have are confessions signed by alleged top members of "al-Qe'ada" Non-truthers will rarely discuss the notion that torture is not considered by any world court to be a legitimate method for discovering the truth 

There are nine scientists involved, not just Steven Jones. And surprise-surprise, some of them are not US nationals.

And the hand-picked 9/11 commission panelists were not even twelve angry men. They were ten angry men now reduced to seven.

Jingles wrote:

The simpler explanation for the collapse, regardless of whom was behind the airplanes crashing, was probably the mundane and routine corruption and corner cutting involved in building the WTC back in the 60's. If the engineering plans call for a certain grade of structural steel, but another grade will save some money, who's gonna know the difference after it's done?

Absolutely.

Michael Nenonen wrote:

Fidel: So, what about the criticisms of the procedure used in their tests?

I'm not a scientist, and I'm pretty sure neither is James Randi. And I just cant be sure about that poster who goes by alienidentity.

I havent checked his credentials, but it looks like Niels Harrit is a professor of nanochemistry at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark.

twoten wrote:

I find the mockery and ridicule quite strange too. Why do they get so heated up over this topic?

I think there is a fairly mundane answer to that.  This issue gets instantly heated on both sides whenever it is raised in any forum because people on both sides have in the past ridiculed and mocked the other side, so many people tend to enter it in a defensive mindset.

al-Qa'bong wrote:

If these guys had this superdooper explosive, what were the aeroplanes for?

 

Drama?

What planes??

[img]http://rookery2.viary.com/storagev12/699500/699761_a62e_625x1000.jpg[/img]

The majority of those killed were capitalists, no real lost for the most part.

Unionist wrote:

Draco wrote:

... both sides have in the past ridiculed and mocked the other side, so many people tend to enter it in a defensive mindset.

Are you saying even the ancient Egyptians saw twoten comin'?

 

Groooan. Ra will get you for that, Unionist

jas wrote:

At least my jokes don't ridicule the deaths of 2700+ people in a single tragic event.

 

Hahahahaha. You believe that crap? 2700+ people dead? Hahahahahahaha. Boy, did Bush and Cheney ever pull a fast one on you. Ole PT Barnum had it right.

I'm willing to believe that elements of the US government has a hand in the event (considering the ties of the flight schools to Iran-Contra players). I'm willing to say something fishy went down at the Pentagon. I believe that the US Air Force did indeed shoot down 93. From the complete lack of criminal investigation into the crime, including obvious destruction of evidence, planting evidence, obstruction of justice, perjury, and criminal negligance by the administration, I believe that Bin Laden had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

What I cannot entertain is complete nonsense, idiocy, and distraction of super thermite, nano explosives, lasers, "faster than free-fall", or other comic book speculation. The [b]how[/b] isn't important. It's the [b]why and who[/b] that are critical.

If you allow yourself to get wrapped up in the minutia of speculation, of entertaining every bizarre theory, of focusing on the improbable, you lose sight of the big picture.

Jingles wrote:

 I believe that Bin Laden had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

What I cannot entertain is complete nonsense, idiocy, and distraction of super thermite, nano explosives, lasers, "faster than free-fall", or other comic book speculation. The [b]how[/b] isn't important. It's the [b]why and who[/b] that are critical

I think "al-Qa'eda" was involved, and that they were in close communication with CIA and ISI intel for months leading up to 9/11. I think it really was a conspiracy complete with CIA-NSA planning, and executed by Islamic gladios with CIA-ISI oversight.

And it's not a theory pulled out of thin air. Because there is pattern and precedent with Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and the NYC chapter of Al-Maktab with prior ties to OBL and Pakistan's army intelligence. They were allegedly involved in the first attempt to bomb WTC in 1993. And now the US colonial outpost government in Kabul is said to be negotiating with Hekmatyar and Taliban warlords. It was a conspiracy that led to this phony global war on terror.

Which of the crazy George Bush I&II and Clinton regime lies are babblers having trouble disbelieving? 

"Doesn't a security failure of this magnitude need to be looked into? Nutcase."

Well, that's my point. A security failure of that magnitude did need to be looked into. And there is, and was, enough mundane, official evidence for criminal prosecution.  But, the more convoluted conspiracy theorists made it possible for the previous administration to label anyone who looked into the facts as "nutcases."

"Are you suggesting that any particular US government since WW II was incapable of doing evil?"

Certainly not.  It's just an observation on conspiracy nutcases, who are more absorbed in proving their hypothesis than they are in actually doing something about what happened.

Because there was a conspiracy.  The administration and the media conspired to gloss over the demonstrated incompetence of the Air Force.  The administration, and the media conspired to use the event on 9/11 to manipulate the American people into a War with Iraq, probably the most baseless war since the Mexican American war in the 1830's.  A war that has resulted in so much loss of American life, it's difficult not to associate this with treason.  A war that has resulted in so much Iraqi loss of life, it's difficult not to associate it with war crimes.

Who needs super thermite, when we already have this?

Unionist wrote:

Fidel wrote:

What if loyal conservatives and even those sometimes conservative-Liberals were suddenly suspicious of the mass murdering war criminals and vicious toadies theyve supported and voted for decade after decade?

Why, the revolution would instantly happen, the evil bad guys would fall from their thrones, and we would all be in Paradise. Just like what happened after the sponsorship scandal and Bay of Pigs and Gulf of Tonkin etc. Capitalism and imperialism were finished, once and for all.

But Bay of Pigs through to fomenting anti-Cuban terrorism was typical imperialist fare and perpetrated against foreigners. An immoral  war in Vietnam was warfiteering against non-Americans.

And the Gulf of Tonkin fiasco was a flimsy excuse to attack Viet Nam. 9/11 was similar to the Tonkin incident but also unique in that it was a phony pretext to invade three sovereign countries and wage indiscriminate war on poor people, and flout Geneva and UN conventions designed to prevent wanton border crossings by military forces since WW II. 9/11 might be comparable to the Nazis receiving a UN blessing to invade Czechoslovakia and Poland on false pretenses, that German nationals and German national security was threatened by foreign governments and ethnic groups.

9/11 was perpetrated against Americans. 9/11 was a complete failure of the national security state to protect Americans from harm. And that's a terrifying thought for so many of them whove been led to believe that Republicans are the war party and that no harm can come to the empire on their watch. And the Lib-dems wont be fooled again, and again, and again...

Thanks, Heywood. Have you ever thought about teaching a chemistry course, say [url=http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html#intr... 101?[/url]

So besides the military, and anyone connected to the military, who else would be able to access superthermite?  I doubt I could get my hands on a stick of dynamite without the cops asking me which mining company I might be buying it for.

I think it has to do with the size of the milled iron and aluminum particles. The smaller the milled particle the greater the potential for energy release. It sounds like thermites have more to do with pyrotechnics than explosives - a classification of materials which was the basis for not examining dust samples for anything more than evidence of explosives. Apparently thermite has been used as a pyrotechnic by militaries since the 1990s or so.  And thermites have wide ranging quality and energy release rating per unit mass and per unit volume.

The problem with Thermites et al is that they have a smaller energy rating than many other explosives because they contain the reacting agent inside them (in Termite's case, O2). So Kerosene has a far higher energy rating.

The ignition tests conducted on the chip samples had an external flow of O2, which means that any reaction could have been as a result of the O2 interaction. In order to prove conclusively that these chips were Thermite as opposed to a contaminated mash of paint, steel, aluminum, et al, the ignition tests should have been conducted in a non-reactive  (such as Xenon) gas environment, Had ignition occured, it would show that the O2 in the chips was enough to sustain the ignition, proving it to be Thermite.

WRT the particle size, milling the particles into nano size doesn't increase its energy rating. It would make the substance burn faster but just as hot. It would still put out the same energy, just faster.

Really Fidel? That's the sum total of your response to my post?

Ok Then. I should have known better than to engage you in good faith.

I'll wait for independant verification from an organization and\or lab not affiliated with Jones or any of the other authors, or truthers in general.

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

Really Fidel? That's the sum total of your response to my post?

Ok Then. I should have known better than to engage you in good faith.

It's because of non-truthers like you and sinert above that US feds have to wiretap people on the QT and occupy oil-rich and strategically located countries militarily. It just never ends.

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I'll wait for independant verification from an organization and\or lab not affiliated with Jones or any of the other authors, or truthers in general.

Dont trust scientists in Denmark not endorsed by Murder Inc.?  

twoten wrote:

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

So what are the differences between Thermite and SuperThermite?

This thermite is ideal for slicing through the world's strongest structural metal, which the WTC towers were built from. It would seem as if it were specifically designed for this task. Only a few places in the world are capable of making this, it's an elite material that has expanded the known science of explosive cutting materials.

How would the "superthermite" be applied to the structure and how could it make a horizonatal cut in the metal? Also, how did the tests that Jones is touting conclusively prove that the chemical is "superthermite" given that there was an external O2 supply during the test?

Fidel wrote:

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

Really Fidel? That's the sum total of your response to my post?

Ok Then. I should have known better than to engage you in good faith.

It's because of non-truthers like you and sinert above that US feds have to wiretap people on the QT and occupy oil-rich and strategically located countries militarily. It just never ends.

 Fidelesque Diversion

Fidel wrote:

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

I'll wait for independant verification from an organization and\or lab not affiliated with Jones or any of the other authors, or truthers in general.

Dont trust scientists in Denmark not endorsed by Murder Inc.?  

The test should be easily replicable by another lab. Maybe this lab could conduct the burn test in a neutral environment though.

I've used semtex, Webgear.

Are we close to 100 posts yet?

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

Fidel wrote:

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

Really Fidel? That's the sum total of your response to my post?

Ok Then. I should have known better than to engage you in good faith.

It's because of non-truthers like you and sinert above that US feds have to wiretap people on the QT and occupy oil-rich and strategically located countries militarily. It just never ends.

 Fidelesque Diversion

But all of the renditions, torture, indiscriminate bombing, military occupations, overbloated homeland stupidity bureaucracy etc hinge on this thing with "al-Qa'eda", a US creation actually, since 9/11. By 10 o'clock than morning there was a list of wanted al-Q agents produced for having perpetrated 9-11. Five years and 183 waterboardings later, KSM is the latest 9/11 patsy accused by the American inquisition. Is this so-called evidence good enough for non-truthers?

Fidel wrote:

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

I'll wait for independant verification from an organization and\or lab not affiliated with Jones or any of the other authors, or truthers in general.

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Dont trust scientists in Denmark not endorsed by Murder Inc.?  

The test should be easily replicable by another lab. Maybe this lab could conduct the burn test in a neutral environment though.

So far the rightwing and hirelings in newz media havent addressed the independent Danish analysis. Not Fox or CNN or even the BBC as far as I can tell. Meanwhile more and more people suspect the Gladio gang of having produced a whitewash wrt the offical 9/11 report.

As I replied to MN, I'm not a scientist, and neither is James Randi. And I have no idea who the Randi poster "alienidenity" could be or their qualifications. The refutations at least sound good, but I think people would like to see some accountability and transparency with a legit 9/11 investigation. This will necessitate NIST or other federal agencies to roll up their sleeves and produce the goods to address these latest questions. And the Pentagon, CIA, FBI etc will have to produce the evidence which they witheld from international courts of law which were forced to prosecute the Hamburg cell to lowest extent of international laws as a result of the lack of evidence. And never mind the American inquisition's evidence extracted under torture at Gitmo. The KSM as 9/11 mastermind narrative doesnt have wheels as far as real criminal courts are concerned

The miserable state of humankind is all thanks to some woman hanging out with a talking snake and eating an apple.