Chrysler to become a worker co-op?

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Ward
Chrysler to become a worker co-op?
Noise

Errr.. you're definately reading right. 

 

 

Someone posted this into the comments, and I'm curious what people here say cause I question it:

Quote:
it will be fun when the CAW sit down to negotiate the next contract with their next compay owner, the UAW. It won't be brothers and sisters anymore. the UAW will look after their own interest first.
Union fights union. Union eat union.
the fun is coming

 

Is this pitting UAW vs CAW in future negotiations?

-=+=-

Noise wrote:

Errr.. you're definately reading right.

 

 

Someone posted this into the comments, and I'm curious what people here say cause I question it:

Quote:
it will be fun when the CAW sit down to negotiate the next contract with their next compay owner, the UAW. It won't be brothers and sisters anymore. the UAW will look after their own interest first.
Union fights union. Union eat union.
the fun is coming

 

Is this pitting UAW vs CAW in future negotiations?

 

Historically, the UAW has usually been pitted against the CAW.  That is why there is a CAW in the first place.  There was no CAW up until the 1980's, only the Canadian region of the UAW.  From what I understand, the objectives of the Canadian and the American workers became impossible to reconcile, and the CAW split.

2 ponies

 

Sorry to be a stickler - but in order for it to be a worker co-op wouldn't the workers have to own basically all of the shares?  Further, wouldn't each member be entitled to the same number of votes on matters requiring voting; e.g. 1 member - 1 vote?

 

How is this any different than a pension fund owning shares?  The only difference I see is that the UAW's healthcare trust will own a lot of the publicly traded Chrysler LLC shares - that's not a co-op.  Co-ops aren't even publicly traded.  Somehow, I doubt that each UAW member has a vote on matters of the UAW healthcare trust.  As a trust, there are probably a limited number of voting members who are elected by the UAW membership to oversee the trust.  I somehow doubt that many, if any at all, issues of the UAW healthcare trust are voted on directly by UAW membership.  This isn't a worker co-op.  A worker co-op would be each employee of Chrysler LLC becoming an equal owner in the company and having equal voting rights. 

 

Again - this is hardly anything new; through my pension I own equities & investments in all kinds of companies. 

 

Sorry to anal-retentive.

Ward

I agree with you Mr. or Mrs. Ponies, but it seems that the spirit is there.

KenS

Second the -=+=-  comment.

UAW being majority shareholder changes nothing. Their role is going to be more akin to the Onatrio Teachers pension fund taking ownership in things like malls- definitely watching their investment... but not taing a hands on management role.

Unlike Teacehrs, the issue is not so much getting a good return on investment... the issue is making sure your 'investment' doesn't go belly up on you. I think where they might throw their weight is if for example they think Fiat was pushing for more risks than they thought was in their interest. Something like that.

So not only is it not remotely like a co-op, there really isn't much going on in the fact of UAWs ownership stake. It was just better that than getting nothing. In a way they are in a similar position to Fiat. Fiat risks no cash, but is putting a lot in on the expectation Chrysler survives and they profit by that. Same for the UAW- they already lost getting real money for the benefit plan. That was gone. But they had to get something in return even though losing the cash inputs was inevitable. So like Fiat, if Chrysler survives- what they got in negotiation will actually be worth something.

KenS

Ward wrote:

.. but it seems that the spirit is there.

If you mean, not the formal co-op, but the spirit of it... definitely not that either. [see my edited/expanded comment above]

Ward

Yeah, well it may take some time for auto workers to admit that they are socialists after all.

Ward
abnormal

What's going to be interesting is the conflict between the fiduciary duties that the UAW just picked up re the pension trust and the unions obligations towards its active members.  At this point it's purely a question of survival (in either capacity) but, on the assumption that Chrysler doesn't go belly up, the two positions will definitely come into conflict.

KenS

I'm not really sure that conflict has got any stronger. But then I only know it exists [has existed for some time]- not the details of how it plays out.

Sounds like it definitely exists in the CAW too, whether or not as much as in the UAW. The UAW working 'Big 3' membership was already in more rapid freefall than with the CAW, and that could accelerate now with no more limits on how many workers can be 2 tier.

abnormal

The conflict has increased - the pension plan trustees have always had a fiduciary responsibility to pensioners (current and future) which includes maximizing the value of the pension fund.  With significant amounts of Chrysler stock in the fund the union is now in the position where something that's good, or at least appears to be good, for current employees is very bad for the pension fund.  [The only way that the fund can realize value from the stock it holds is by selling it - anything that impairs the value of that stock impairs the ability of the fund to meet its obligations.  As a result, if at some time the stock markets feel that some union position (or settlement) is damaging to Chrysler's prospects the share price will go down and the value of the pension fund will go down so the ability of the fund to pay pensions, cover retiree medical costs, etc. will be reduced.]

Doug

Wow - they actually AREN'T totally stupid over at Chrysler. It turns out they designed their headquarters such that it could easily be converted into a shopping mall. Would that they managed the rest of their business that well.

http://jalopnik.com/5240347/chrysler-hq-designed-to-convert-into-shopping-mall

Okay, so the shopping mall would probably also fail in today's economic climate, but the thought was there.