Tell MEC to Stop Supporting Israeli Apartheid!

Well, whether MEC actually "put its entire corporate weight" behind squashing  a member resolution is pretty far from being clearly established. It seems that there was a vote and the side you were on lost. It happens in democracy. I don't like that Stephen Harper won the last election but I accept the results.

Look, I'm all for boycotting companies that engage in unethical behaviour - whether with regards to treatment of workers, environmental degradation, huma rights abuses, etc. I'm not always successful at it but I do my best. But from what I can tell, nothing has been established about this company other than the fact that they are Israeli-owned, which in and of itself is not "unethical". If they're sold at MEC, presumably they ahve good labour standards, etc. They just happen to be based in a country with objectionable policies...which doesn't say much since pretty much every damn country has policies we can all oppose. This is about trying to punish a company because of the nationality of its owners. I'd much rather buy a backpack from MEC, made in Israel by workers who get a fair wage and good conditions than to buy something made in a sweatshop by young children getting paid 50 cents an hour.

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

If they were, indeed, bullied and threatened, then no, of course I don't. Just as I hope you would not "approve" of, for example, pro-Palestinian demosntrators assaulting and harassing people trying to hear Netenyahu give a speech at Concordia. I think it's quite possible to disagree and remain civil or at elast not descened into that kind of shit. 

I don't think that supporters of apartheid, oppression and fascism should be assaulted necessarily, but they certainly should be protested, and perhaps even 'harassed'. One is only as civil possible under the circumstances...

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What percentage of its members do you think MEC actually heard from on this issue?

Without knowing how many members showed up, and how many members there are overall, I really couldn't say. I'm TOTALLY willing to bet, though, that if whoever showed up voted to boycott, you'd be fine with it, whether it was 10,000 votes or 10. Can you really tell me, knowing that God is listening, that if the vote were in favour of boycott, you would be the one to say "Wait a minute! How many people actually showed up, and is this really representative of the beliefs of ALL members???"

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It seems that there was a vote and the side you were on lost.

Exactly. That, not some co-ordinated campaign to deny the "boycott" side their voice, is what's going on here.

To suggest that the government of Israel is fascist is in line with American conservatives calling Canada Socialist. Pure hyperbole.

Do you want to discuss jabotinsky or whether it is accurate to call the current Israeli regime fascist? I keep feeling like you are playing bait and switch.

My position is that using terms like apartheid, fascist, Israeli apologist are not effective in the pr battle and frankly aren't accurate.

Some of us support an effective two state solution. Some here belief a two state solution isn't possib;e. Some reject the right of Israel to exist as a state.

I wish the epithets would be put away so real discussion could take place.

Cueball wrote:

But lets be clear, the barbaric Apartheid practices of the Israeli regieme [i]is[/i] an unfair labour practice, as is the Apartheid wall, and the Ghetoization of Gaza, because in fact all of these things have been done in such a way that they target Palestinian labour and exclude them from the economy from which they at one time participated in directly.

That is entirely a valid point. But it's not as if some people who own a backpack company are the ones directing Israeli security policy on behalf of the government. They're jsut people who like people around the world are trying to run a business and make a living. Targetting them won't seem to do much. It's not like you can say "We'll hurt your business unless you change your policy with regards to Gaza" since they HAVE no policy with regards to Gaza, given that they make backpacks instead of running the government. It's very different than saying to, say, Nike that you will not buy their shoes until they pay their workers a better wage. Nike is actually in a position to MAKE that change so a boycott could potentially be effective in such an instance whereas boycotting a specific Israeli company (which we would assume has good labour and environmental policies realtive to others) jsut hurts individuals - presumably Jews and Palestinians alike. The Likudniks running the government aren't going to be hurt by it. Anymore so than Fidel Castro was personally hurt by the decades-long U.S. boycott of Cuba. Not only did that boycott fail to bring about "regime change", ordinary people in Cuba were (the "victims of Castro" according to U.S. spin) were hurt by it.

It would be interesting to know how many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are actually employed by MEC's Israeli suppliers. Moreso, it would be interesting to know about their suppliers suppliers. Regardless, MEC's is in a position to not do business at all in a country which enforces an Apartheid labour practice, and purchase elsewhere.

Snert wrote:

Funny, though, that all this is somehow only revealed when the members voted against a boycott.

I'll say the same to you:  if the vote had been in favour, you wouldn't give a rat's ass about whether someone in PEI didn't get the chance to cast a proxy vote against.  MEC's processes and policies would be just fine, if only they'd granted your wish.

Your thick as a brick, as usual. I just agreed with you.

I pointed out that the corporatization of MEC is an old issue, one that goes back many years. Decisions aren't even binding. Lol. I know this because my family are basically a founding members, though I was on small at the time. I pointed out that yes, I would not make any claims against the voting process or deficiencies thereof, because I suspect that if MEC hadn't adopted its pseudo co-operative coporate model, where the so called members, get to vote in non-binding resolutions at the AGM, it is very likely that MEC would never have started sourcing gear from a military supplier that directly profits from the imposition of Apartheid upon Palestinians and the ghetoization of Palestinians, to the point where the once thriving society is now dependent entirely on outside aid, while Israel imports thousands upon thousands of "guest  workers" from all over the world, to fill their shoes.

What monsters!!!

From their website:

SOURCE & THE COMMUNITY

We donate 1% of our turnover in overseas markets as we operate to help local community projects. In domestic market, we donate 5% of our turnover to similar community projects of our choosing. In addition, we donate old stocks of sandals to "Bigger than Life" - an organization of kids who suffer from cancer.

We also encourage our employees to spend 1-2 working hours each week in community projects.

Give One Chance - Support Your Community

Source's "Give One Chance" project aims to finance local community-based projects that seek to promote support to people in neighborhoods who need help. Such help could include education, a place to sleep, medicine, rescue services, a chance to experience a day outdoors, or even just a smile from someone who cares.

It works like this. We donate 1% of our turnover in each country to these projects as part of our dream and vision to create this "human-to-human network" of producers, distributors and retailers in our industry.

Our Working Place
As Source grew, we realized the importance of values and humanity in all forms and areas of our activities. We are now 150 people and we try, as an extended family, to embrace curiosity, care, responsibility, joy and fulfilment.

We strive to create a nurturing environment free of fear, and where equality, respect and liberty are a given. As a reflection of this, the highest salary at SOURCE never exceeds five times the lowest salary in net terms.

We believe that unless people can honestly identify with their workplace, and without enriching our lives with experience, education and training which in turn generates interest and personal fulfilment, no real production of quality can be achieved.

Each year 5% of the net profit of the company is divided among all workers who have been with the company more than a year. And each year, 5% of the net profit of the domestic market and 1% of our company's turnover abroad goes towards sponsoring social & environmental activities. The Fund sponsors social and environmental activities in communities around the world.

If we outsource our production to other locations for strategic or social reasons, we remain responsible that those facilities are based on the same foundations of our current business, and reflect the same values.

Environmental Sustainability
Cooperation, not competition, is the basis for keeping our ecosystems in balance and ensuring sustainability. We strive to ensure that our actions do not cause harm to our workers or to the environment.

We take the responisiblity to ensure that the resources we use at every stage of the manufacturing process are replaced in equal or greater quantities.

We run an ecologically-sustainable business, meeting the needs of the present without compromising the future.

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 they can rest assured that MEC is helping kill people from Sri Lanka to the Gaza Strip by dealing with this supplier.

The supplier appears to manufacture sandals and fancy canteens. Do you suppose that it's the sandals that are being used to kill people, or the canteens?

Your assumption seems to be that anyone, anywhere, who supplies anything at all to the Israeli military somehow has blood on its hands. At a certain point that gets absurd. What murderer supplies them with pencils?? Who is responsible for their fascist toilet paper needs??

Honestly, your over-the-topness makes it sound like MEC is financing the manufacture of mustard gas. I think you need to do a quick reality check.

With seemingly 90% of companies not caring whatsoever about anything but profits, MEC stands out for taking the time to research their suppliers and discriminate based on certain standards. Now, due to this their prices are a lot higher than say buying a tent at Walmart - especially for those of us who do not really have disposible income. However, it is worth it to save and purchase from them as opposed to buying something made at the point of a gun and/or by children.

How often do those pro-Israeli boycotters even shop at MEC? And where do you suggest as a more ethical alternative?

I can not comprehend how anyone can hold all Israeli citizens guilty. There are many progressive people there, progressive communitarian movements and due to their non first past the post system, there are a wide variety of people elected. Hopefully this will have the same effect on MEC as on Israeli wine - MEC is a great company. If I had more money, I would choose them for purchases much more often.

Left Turn wrote:

 These factories employ Palestinians, who are paid substandard wages -- half of what Israelis would make -- are tighly controlled and live in inhuman conditions. All the more reason to boycott MEC.

How do you know what they make? Are you jsut speculating? My understanding from their website is that they actually have quite progressive policies with regards to wages - like profit sharing among all employees and the highest paid employee making no more than 5 times the salary of the lowest paid. Not to mention high environmental standards, giving a percentage of revenue to support charities, giving their products away to a charity that helps kids with cancer. If you think those progressive policies are outweighed by the fact that the Israeli military also purchase their products, to each their own, I suppose. I'd certainly feel better about buying something from a company with the labour practices outlined above and do it at an independent co-op store like MEC than to go (at a lower price) and buy something made in a sweatshop by children and do it at a palce like Wal-Mart which hurts local businesses, fights unionization drives, etc. But like I said, to each their own.

No more than 5 times? Freakin radical! So you are saying that some Israeli workers only make 5 times what Palestinians make. How nice.

I knew that those opposed to boycott and sanctions were going to be reduced to "think of the children!" taling points eventually. Usually happens around the time all arguements have been shown to be founded on falsehood, or simply based in principles applied with a double standard.

Anyone who argues these pro-Israeli positions is wearing rose coloured glasses, but is blind in one eye.

Very well.  But your "pro-Israeli" comment seemed wrapped up in your other comments to SSC, who's saying nothing about "collective punishment" that I can see.

Cueball wrote:

My point is simply this: Anyone who vocally argues the case that boycotting Israel is wrong because it is "collective punishment", and then conversly defends or otherwise stays silent on "collective punishment" against Palestinians, which is both Israeli and Canadian government policy, is, simply put either a dupe, or stupid.

There are another possibilities: They could just as easily be racists, fascists, or both.

SSC - I'm certain you already know how ridiculous your false dilemma is, but let me assure you: you are not going to be restricted to choosing between MEC and Walmart.

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

Cueball wrote:

No more than 5 times? Freakin radical! So you are saying that some Israeli workers only make 5 times what Palestinians make. How nice.

 

Who said anything about "Israeli" vs. "Palestinian"?? It was "highest paid" versus "lowest paid" which is based on JOB not ethnicity. So the president of the company would only make 5 times the salary of the person who answers the phones.

Who said anything about the president being called a "worker"? We have no idea that the president is defined as a "worker". I highly doubt that. this is probably the differential between lower level management, and factory workers. 

There is nothing particularly progessive about a profit based bonus system. It is most often just a lever used to extract more work out of people while paying them less. It also sounds good to people who have actually never done any work, so it gets full mention for image politics.

If it were the case that there were no racial devide between workers at the Vagabond sporting and military supplies company that MEC purchases from, I would somewhat soften my stance. But I highly doubt that, because a "socially conscious" company that obviously sees its ethical stand as being central to its image, would doubtlessly also talk about it "equity employment policy". A mention of that policy is distinctly absent from the company web site. What is not said, tells you as much as what is said often times, I find.

It would be interesting to know for sure. Do you have any data?

mosca-azul wrote:

I exchanged a couple of messages with mec about this issue in january.  I wanted to know where the factories are located - if they are in the occupied territories then the stuff can't legally come to canada under our free trade agreement with israel.  sure hope people buying the stuff aren't breaking any canadian laws - after all, we all own the store.

Indeed they have "subcontractors" who run sweat shops in the West Bank, read the above post for a link.

Of course they are paid less. There is no equity policy outlined in the company fluff piece alluded too by SCC. We know that companies that truly take pride in their progressive street cred publish those, or at least mention them. Source-Military-Vagabond doesnt allude to any thing of the kind, so we know were they stand with that issue. They also make no mention of how they ensure that their "subcontractors" in the West Bank comply with the companies lofty goals, other than to provide hydration equipment for "the heat of battle" as the Source-military web site so elegantly describes it.

Why on earth would a military equipment manufacturer bother outsourcing production into the West Bank if it were not simply to take advantage of the cheap labour rates created by the complete destitution of the people their?

Thing is that SCC has never had a serious job in his life. Straight through school and into academia, so he hasn't heard all that buttery talk about "profit sharing", workplace as "family", and so on, which is all pretty much code for we will fuck you while smiling at you, as anyone who has ever seen the inside of that kind of operation knows. To him it sounds grand.

Cueball wrote:

Thing is that SCC has never had a serious job in his life.

I'm a fucking orthopedic surgeon, you idiot.  That's not "serious"? What do you do for a living? When you've cut some open while they are under a a general anaesthesia and reconstruct part of their musculoskeletal system, then you can have some credibility in commenting on the "seriousness" of my job.

Any company that would help a soldier drink water is pure evil.  PURE.  EVIL.

So, LTJ, if these same IDF soldiers also eat Corn Flakes for breakfast (giving them the energy and nutrients they need to go and oppress people who are often lacking food) will you boycott the Kellogg corporation and any store that sells kellogg products? Lets be consistent here.

Well, I salute your consistency at least. Though I don't know why you would boycott MEC for selling backpacks that do business with the IDF but not, say, Loblaws for selling corn flakes that they presumably eat.

But if you really are committed to boycotting any company that does business with Israel, good luck. Does your computer run on Intel chips? They have a plant in Israel. Do you ever use Google? It's search engine runs on Israeli-designed algorithims. I hope that you or someone you care about never gets diagnosed with diabetes cause a recent breakthrough in treatment for diabetics was made by Israeli researchers at an Israeli university. As for companies that simply "do business" there...um, that's probably jsut about everyone. Do you run Microsoft products? I assume computers in IDF headquarters do as well. Do you drink Coke or Pepsi or wash your clothes with Tide or brush your teeth with Crest or Colgate or shave with a Gilette razor? I'd imagine every one of those companies "does business" with Israel.