http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/628987
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090506/ruby_dhalla_0905...
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/628987
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090507.wdhallafinal...
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/05/07/dhalla-ontario-reactio...
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/631022
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/05/08/dhalla-caregiver.html
Some of the links from the previous thread.
[url=http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/631695]Ruby says she's the abused one!![/url]
Liberal MP Ruby Dhalla, facing allegations that she and her family mistreated three foreign workers, tried to turn the tables yesterday, painting herself as a victim of an organized conspiracy to destroy her.
In her first public appearance since the Star first published the allegations, Dhalla, MP for Brampton-Springdale, did not address any of the specific issues raised by the three women who claim they all worked illegally for her family.
Instead, she left it to her lawyer to dismiss their allegations as nothing more than politically motivated character assassination.
"Anyone who has ever entered our home has been treated with love, with care, with compassion and respect," Dhalla said yesterday at a news conference held at her constituency office
Ruby loves hired help so much that she pays them $3.70 an hour for working 12 to 16 hour days! With love and respect like that, who needs a legally enforced minimum wage pay raise in this Puerto Rico du Nord?
Dhalla's whipper-snapper of a lawyer, Howard Levitt, has said that the nannies are, of course, part of some grand political conspiracy to sully Dhalla's *a-hem* good name.
Maybe they're Tory party operatives. Maybe the Tories are really paying them huge sums of money on top of their $250 a week. I hope Levitt finds out.
Levitt is no legal light wieght. In fact, he's probably the authority on employment law not just in Ontario, but in Canada. And, I think he lends his expertise to the bad guys.
If this is part of some grand conspiracy-- by either Conservatives or Liberals-- I eagerly await proof. I'd also love someone to ask Levitt to make the accusations under oath.
As far as the documentation goes, did Levitt allow anyone in the media to actually look at the documents?
Also, this interesting tid bit:
"Levitt would not answer questions about whether the nannies had work permits, arguing that Dhalla's brother, Neil, was their employer.
The matter of the permits, he said, is "her brother's issue or potentially her mother's issue." "
Or, my client isn't guilty, but if she is, it was her brother or mother.
A tactic that must make for interesting dinner conversation at the loving Dhalla household.
It's an interesting tactic that Levitt and Dhalla have embarked upon. If Dhalla is guilty of all, or even a part of what the allegations allege, then what emerges is a high powered politician and her attack dog lawyer beating up even more on deffensless immigrant workers.
The only way I see this tactic working for them is if they can indeed prove some Machiavellian conspiracy behind all this.
Suicide sqeeze play. Maybe Dhalla and Levitt think they can bully the witnesses into obscurity with threats of perjury, and no resouces to hire good legal councel.
Levitt is no legal light wieght. In fact, he's probably the authority on employment law not just in Ontario, but in Canada. And, I think he lends his expertise to the bad guys.
If this is part of some grand conspiracy-- by either Conservatives or Liberals-- I eagerly await proof. I'd also love someone to ask Levitt to make the accusations under oath.
I doubt this would be a Liberal conspiracy or smear campaign but, clearly, if this story has legs, it's in the interests of the Conservatives, BQ and the NDP to keep it alive. Polls now indicate that all the parties are losing votes to the Liberals and anything that makes the Liberals look bad is worth keeping front and centre for as long as possible.
I doubt this would be a Liberal conspiracy or smear campaign but, clearly, if this story has legs, it's in the interests of the Conservatives, BQ and the NDP to keep it alive.
I'd agree, except the BQ and NDP don't have the access to power that could offer renumeration in dollars, or government favours that either the Liberals or Conservatives have. If one wants to entertain a conspiracy, one has to come up with a scenario where the allegations of the participants are rewarded with something.
Only the Liberals and Conservatives are in that position. And, only they own enough editors to keep a story alive, or to kill it.
Seriously, while I don't think the Conservatives and Liberals face any ethical barriers to such a scheme, I rather think it's too high risk for them to actually have done this. But then, I've been wrong on that count before, if we remember back to the Chuck Cadman bri-- missunderstanding.
I say let's see the proof, where are the papers indicating the Dhalla household was employing these women legally? Why is there this kerfuffle about something a year ago? What needed to be taken care of then that required taking the passports? Could this be connected to Ruby Dhalla suggesting she was going to run for the leadership of the Liberal party? Wasn't that about a year ago?
I think Dhalla started to embark on the right strategy, by calling for a review by the House Ethics Commissioner.
It's my guess that if Dhalla did that, was contrite and self effacing while chaulking all the wrong doing down to missunderstandings due to her super busy schedule as a high profile M.P., and humble family members who aren't aware of all the intricacies of the law (who amoung us is?) then this would already be starting to blow over.
If this story has legs, then Levitt has surely put them there now.
I say let's see the proof, where are the papers indicating the Dhalla household was employing these women legally?
Well, Levitt has already surrendered that point, and has shifted blame to Dhalla's brother or Mother. (Happy Mother's day!)
Let's remember that as far as the accusations go, the burden of proof is on those accusing Dhalla.
The burden of proof as to some conspiracy rests with Levitt now, and if the nannies could afford a lawyer, and find one who would dare go toe to toe with Levitt, I'm sure he or she would be demanding Levitt put up or shut up.
So, is this rabid bulldog attack by Levitt because he's deffending an innocent client? Or is it meant to intimidate and take advantage of some rather deffensless people?
Finally, something we can apply Occam's razor to.
There are less assumptions with the latter scenario.
Dhalla's mother is her cited government travel companion, and apparently her mother flies everywhere with her, when she is travelling. Apparently the foreign care giver program, does not require people accessing it to actually need care provision. Amazing eh!
I say the whole damn program along with Dhalla need investigating.
So Ruby Dhalla is not responsible? LOL
I think one requirement for members of parliament is the awareness that their actions will be scrutinized and that they are responsible for them.
Truthfully, I would much prefer to see her proved innocent, I want to see diversity working but given the way in which she entered politics it is difficult for me to see anything but a sense of entitilement and that doesn't speak to diversity at all.
Statement from the Brampton Filipino Seniors Club:
We are writing in support of Dr. Ruby Dhalla, Member of Parliament for Brampton-Springdale, who has been unjustly smeared by the Toronto Star's article released May 5th, 2009- and by the Canadian media. The Brampton Filipino Seniors club have known Ruby since she was first elected in 2004 and can attest to her character being nothing short of the highest integrity. She is one of the hardest working and most dedicated people we have ever known.
We have seen firsthand Ruby's commitment to people, to Brampton and the Filipino community. Whenever anyone has needed her she has always been there.
In fact, early this year, Ruby lent her support to a Filipina live-in caregiver who was diagnosed with colon cancer. Ruby went shoulder to shoulder with the Filipino community to fight for the live-in caregiver to receive her permanent residency.
As well, earlier this year, when a Filipina resident of Brampton (a former caregiver) was terminally ill Ruby went above and beyond to comfort this woman. She offered help and support to members of the Filipino community and members of the Filipino- Canadian Autoworkers Association as they provided care and comfort to this dying woman. When she succumbed to death, Ruby again stood shoulder to shoulder with the community to collect funds for her funeral. Ruby spoke at the funeral with a speech that touched the hearts of everyone in the room.
On several occasions, we have had the pleasure of working with her and her office on a number of initiatives that empower women, seniors, and the Filipino community. She tabled a petition in the House of Commons to call on the government to stop the political killings and human rights violations in the Philippines and also worked with the Filipino community to support the campaign to demand justice for Comfort Women.
Everyone in the Filipino community knows that Ruby is just a phone call away when help is needed. She is a champion of women, of immigrants, of seniors and children. She is seen as a role model by our youth and as a compassionate and loving person by our community. Whether its empowering women, giving youth a voice, or advocating for seniors, Ruby has always stood up for the community.
Given Ruby's loving and caring nature and her dedication to people and the community the allegations by the caregivers and treatment in the media is unfair. We don't know what motive the caregivers have in making these allegations but anyone that knows Ruby finds it difficult to believe. She is caring and compassionate. The Brampton Filipino Seniors and the entire community stand behind Ruby as she goes through this difficult time.
Sincerely,
The Brampton Filipino Seniors Club
Aurora G. Villanueva
The Toronto Star has posted the full transcript of their interview with Dhalla, along with their email exchanges with her, and her lawyer's responses.
http://media.thestar.topscms.com/acrobat/67/76/4eff7f0f4f8c825b625785f6f3bf.pdf
I suppose it could be a conspiracy to get her, but you'd have to accept that the 3 caregivers, their employment agency, and the nanny advocacy group Intersede were all lying and Ruby was telling the truth. That would be one difficult conspiracy to organize.
Also, I disagree with Tommy_Paine's assertion that "I think Dhalla started to embark on the right strategy, by calling for a review by the House Ethics Commissioner", because the House Ethics Commissioner is only empowered to consider cases of pure conflict of interest (i.e., where the MP had a financial interest in an issue they had to vote on). That doesn't apply to this case at all. Ironically, she might have been able to make the case that the Commissioner had jurisdiction under their old terms of reference, but the terms of reference were amended to limit them to just those narrow cases.
This referral is a canard ... designed to distract the issue. The Commissioner will come back with a letter saying that Dhalla wasn't in a conflict of interest situation, and then she will claim she's been cleared by the Commissioner. Kind of like asking the Dog Catcher to investigate whether you illegally cut down the tree the neighbourhood dogs liked to visit. Completely irrelevant.
I say the whole damn program along with Dhalla need investigating.
I agree! This story is definitely not new to domestic workers. The program itself is so deeply flawed, employers like Dhalla can easily abuse both legal and illegal foreign workers.
See media release from a local migrant workers` group:
http://www.magkaisacentre.org/2009/05/as-the-violence-continues-the-live...
you'd have to accept that the 3 caregivers..
This is what it comes down to; all of the other agencies' actions are on their say-so. And there are plenty of material rewards that the Conservative party leadership could swing their way- immigration, money transfers to the Philippines.. not difficult at all. Too bad that no one is looking into it, and everyone is looking at Dhalla.
Statement from the Brampton Filipino Seniors Club:
We are writing in support of Dr. Ruby Dhalla, Member of Parliament for Brampton-Springdale, who has been unjustly smeared by the Toronto Star's article released May 5th, 2009- and by the Canadian media. The Brampton Filipino Seniors club have known Ruby since she was first elected in 2004 and can attest to her character being nothing short of the highest integrity. She is one of the hardest working and most dedicated people we have ever known.
And the Brampton Filipino Seniors Club does not speak for the me, nor for the entire Filipino community. Shame.
=)
Sparkplug,
Two questions:
1/ Are you Filipino?
2/ Have you met/worked with Dr. Dhalla?
"This referral is a canard ... designed to distract the issue. The Commissioner will come back with a letter saying that Dhalla wasn't in a conflict of interest situation, and then she will claim she's been cleared by the Commissioner. Kind of like asking the Dog Catcher to investigate whether you illegally cut down the tree the neighbourhood dogs liked to visit. Completely irrelevant."
Exactly. I didn't say it was a good move for truth, or justice, but a good move for Dhalla. All she wants is a below the fold, or page 3 headline or the news crawl on CTV or CBC to say "Dhalla cleared by Ethics Commissioner" next week or a couple of weeks from now.
The course that Levitt has charted is outdated damage control techniques, and it only offers the chance for a pyrrhic victory.
By the way, the autism lobby in Canada has also come out in support of Dr. Dhalla, because of her tireless advocacy on behalf of the community.
As a social progressive, I find it deeply edifying to watch the Left crucify someone who supports all of their core values- multiculturalism, women, worker's rights- at the behest of the Conservative attack machine.
..I didn't say it was a good move for truth, or justice..
What would you have her do instead?
Has anyone read the transcript of the Dhalla interview? Just what is she accused of, exactly? Washing a floor and shining someone's shoes for pay is hardly criminal behaviour.
Workers hired under the Live-in Caregiver Program are paid to care for children, the elderly and people with disabilities. They are not required to do household work.
If it matters to you, yes, I am Filipino. And I believe that even if Dhalla was indeed a champion of immigrant and women`s rights, it does not give us any right to condemn the "allegations of the caregivers" as "unfair."
But I`m here to argue a deeper examination of the program itself. I couldn`t care less about Dhalla, really. Proven guilty or not, all the media and political spectacle wouldn`t do much to improve the lives of the women under the program unless we raise the level of discourse ourselves.
But I'm here to argue a deeper examination of the program itself.
I hope for your sake that you get that support. But there are a couple of things to be considered here:
1/ Do you think that CPC Minister Kenney, who is evincing so much concern about Dr. Dhalla, actually cares about the rights of immigrant Filipino women?
Or, do you think that Dhalla is construed as a threat, because she actually does care?
Dr. Dhalla could be thrown out tomorrow, and all that would happen would be that the Conservatives would laugh, put the issue on the backburner, and you'd have one less advocate for your cause tomorrow. It seems a little myopic of you.
BTW, Dr. Dhalla has said that 1/ the allegations are false, and 2/ that she is committed to improving the program.
But on a much more serious note, I'd really like to know what changes you would like to see made to the program, if you've studied it, as doubtless you have.
What would you have her do instead?
At this point, it's what I would have had her do instead.
Political damage control is common sense decency.
Beyond that, my services cost, oh, twice what Levitt is charging.
As a social progressive, I find it deeply edifying to watch the Left crucify someone who supports all of their core values- multiculturalism, women, worker's rights- at the behest of the Conservative attack machine.
There are no members of the Liberal Party who share, much less support, the core values of the left.
And its edifying to see someone dismiss the testimony of 3 immigrant workers, and of an advocacy group for immigrant domestic workers [whose director said "calling it a conspiracy is far fetched. And if its a conspiracy, I must be part of it."].
Edifying to dismiss the testimony of those people and chalk the accusations up to the Conservative attack machine.
As a social progressive, I find it deeply edifying to watch the Left crucify someone who supports all of their core values- multiculturalism, women, worker's rights- at the behest of the Conservative attack machine.
There are no members of the Liberal Party who share, much less support, the core values of the left.
I didn't think so, either, until I went to Dr. Dhalla's website and saw the initiatives that she was supporting. It must be a very alienating experience to sit as a member of that party and support the kinds of projects that she does. Similarly, if you head over to Libblogs, you'll see that many individual liberals have taken some fairly strident positions on Israeli-Palestinian relations, not something that jibes with Conservatism.
But on balance, I agree with you. The Liberal party hews to the right, as do the Conservatives.
And its edifying to see someone dismiss the testimony of 3 immigrant workers,
I'm absolutely not arguing that these workers weren't egregiously exploited by someone in a position of power. It just wasn't by Dr. Dhalla. People at the top always use one minority to railroad another- its classic, and I am surprised that you are defending it.
Statement from the Brampton Filipino Seniors Club:
The Brampton Filipino Seniors club have known Ruby since she was first elected in 2004 and can attest to her character being nothing short of the highest integrity. She is one of the hardest working and most dedicated people we have ever known.
The Club has the experience to weigh in on whether Dhalla is a hard working MP. And its unlikely she would be Multicultaralism critic without being effective at the file.
But the Club did not and cannot speak to the veracity of the charges.
I'm absolutely not arguing that these workers weren't egregiously exploited by someone in a position of power. It just wasn't by Dr. Dhalla.
You are quite the dodger. Big surprise there.
No one said you were dismissing they are exploited. You are accussed of dismissing what they said.
They said they were exploited by Dhalla. You said they were exploited by someone (?), but not by Ruby Dhalla. You are entitled to not beleive them, but you dismissed what they said.
Chalking it up to the Conservatives, and pointing out the nannies could easily be bought off- thats a dismissal of what they said.
[And as to plausability- are you also proposing that "maybe" the director of Intercede was bought of in saying that she called Ruby Dhalla on behalf of the two workers a year ago?]
People at the top always use one minority to railroad another- its classic, and I am surprised that you are defending it.
Spare me your phoney "surprise".
For the record, you don't surprise me at all.
Don't know anything about you other than your personna here... and that is very predictable.
I'm absolutely not arguing that these workers weren't egregiously exploited by someone in a position of power. It just wasn't by Dr. Dhalla.
You are quite the dodger. Big surprise there.
No one said you were dismissing they are exploited. You are accussed of dismissing what they said.
They said they were exploited by Dhalla. You said they were exploited by someone (?), but not by Ruby Dhalla. You are entitled to not beleive them, but you dismissed what they said.
Chalking it up to the Conservatives, and pointing out the nannies could easily be bought off- thats a dismissal of what they said.
[And as to plausability- are you also proposing that "maybe" the director of Intercede was bought of in saying that she called Ruby Dhalla on behalf of the two workers a year ago?]
People at the top always use one minority to railroad another- its classic, and I am surprised that you are defending it.
Spare me your phoney "surprise".
For the record, you don't surprise me at all.
Don't know anything about you other than your personna here... and that is very predictable.
Ken,
I'd honestly like to respond, but you haven't said anything, except to insult me and my character.
BTW, you are dismissing what Dr. Dhalla said. Why? :)
I'm sorry, but just because you are an immigrant worker doesn't mean that you aren't vulnerable to material inducements that would make your life more comfortable. In fact, you're probably more vulnerable. If the nannies weren't being used so politically and blatantly, I wouldn't be suspicious.
And what is your explanation for the testimony of the Intercede director that she called Dhalla a year ago on behalf of the nannies? Conservatives bought her off too?
People have every reason to be susicious of the Conservatives motives. But it is paternalistic, at best, to see this as the main thing going on.
But the Club did not and cannot speak to the veracity of the charges.
Of course, but Ruby has. She has produced receipts for a signed statement from the neighbour, that the neighbour was exclusively and through a regular contract, shovelling snow in her home. She had signed and dated receipts. Why would the nannies have to do this task?
She has produced receipts showing that the chiropractic clinics were cleaned by a contract company that came every day. Why on earth would the nannies be required to do it, then?
The nannies all conveniently appear just as the Schreiber inquiry is getting underway and the Conservatives want to deflect attention from this. They appear the very week that the Conservatives have the floor for a parliamentary committee on this issue. It all absolutely reeks of political opportunism. Why aren't there any threads on Karlheinz Schreiber on babble? Isn't that a HUGE inquiry over the ambiguous actions of one individual MP?
And the rest of this is palpably ridiculous. The nannies had to handwash dishes? So have I, when I have babysat.
And what is your explanation for the testimony of the Intercede director that she called Dhalla a year ago on behalf of the nannies? Conservatives bought her off too?
The Intercede director was basing her attentions on the testimony of the nannies, which certainly could have been set up a year ago. The facts have been really disputed in this case. Care to address that?
I'm not dismissing what Dhalla said.
There are only two possibilities here, according to the testimonies offered.
There are absolute and fundamental contradictions between what Dhalla says, and on the other hand what the 3 domestic workers and director of an NGO say.
Either Dhalla is lying, or the others are lying, and not just lying, but orchestrtated their lies to match.
And what is your explanation for the testimony of the Intercede director that she called Dhalla a year ago on behalf of the nannies? Conservatives bought her off too?
The Intercede director was basing her attentions on the testimony of the nannies, which certainly could have been set up a year ago.
You need to explain what you mean here. It's not clear- what is the chain of events?
So the Conservatives put the nannies up to this one year ago. The nannies take their concocted story to Intercede director. She would have no way of knowing, and calls Ruby Dhalla on their behalf.
Like that?
And what is your explanation for the testimony of the Intercede director that she called Dhalla a year ago on behalf of the nannies? Conservatives bought her off too?
The Intercede director was basing her attentions on the testimony of the nannies, which certainly could have been set up a year ago.
You need to explain what you mean here. It's not clear- what is the chain of events?
So the Conservatives put the nannies up to this one year ago. The nannies take their concocted story to Intercede director. She would have no way of knowing, and calls Ruby Dhalla on their behalf.
Like that?
You know, Ken, I am not going to speculate. But I have never, ever believed in Occam's Razor. There is always more to the story in life, particularly when average Conservatives are involved =)
Ruby Dhalla = Liberal MP who voted (or abstained from voting) with Harper 71 times
That's certainly not my definition of progressive.
By all accounts, she is not well-loved in her own caucus and is only interested in the duties of an MP that involve a TV camera. By way of example, she blew off a Liberal caucus meeting last year to attend an awards show in LA (claiming to have a more legitimate excuse, which turned out to be hogwash). She refused to run in a contested nomination, forcing Martin to appoint her as a candidate.
=)
Scott,
I'm sorry that you feel that way. Do you have a record of what decisions Dr. Dhalla voted with Harper on? And how many times that actually was? I'd be curious :)
Here's the list of all 71, Jamsicle:
What's the minimum wage in Ontario?
Ottawaobserver,
Thank you so much. It doesn't mention Dr. Dhalla specifically, so its hard to know which issues she was abstaining on. Still, I really appreciate that you took the time to find me the information that was out there.
I hope you have a great night.
=)
Ottawaobserver,
Thank you so much. It doesn't mention Dr. Dhalla specifically, so its hard to know which issues she was abstaining on.
..or how she voted when she was instructed not to abstain.
[url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/ignatieff-failing-middle-class-liberals-offer-no...
Jamsicle, if Ruby Dhalla represents what she says she represents, why do ypu think she in the Liberal Party? Do you think the Liberal Party actually represents those values? I have read through some of her parliamentry quotes and I can see what you are saying but I can only conclude that if this is so then not only does she suffer from a false sense of entitlement but she is very naive too.
The nannies all conveniently appear just as the Schreiber inquiry is getting underway and the Conservatives want to deflect attention from this. They appear the very week that the Conservatives have the floor for a parliamentary committee on this issue. It all absolutely reeks of political opportunism. Why aren't there any threads on Karlheinz Schreiber on babble? Isn't that a HUGE inquiry over the ambiguous actions of one individual MP?
I too find it interesting that there is not much discussion of the Schreiber-Mulroney Iquiry here; perhaps the interest in Ruby Dhalla comes from the tabloid aspect of some of it, as well as the fact that she has been involved in previous controversies.
However, there is also the reality that she is a Member of Parliament who is facing some serious accusations which need to be investigated.
As for the Schreiber Inquiry, obviously that warrants a discussion as it is possibly an even more serious matter and involves a former Prime Minister. I think it will probably get more attention this week since Brian Mulroney will be testifying. I don't think it has been a priority for many Canadians lately because a) a lot of it has been talked about before, b) the economy and jobs have been people's main worry, and c) Swine Flu and other stories have gotten more attention.
I think it is disgusting the way some are talking about these nannies. They are poor, and lack security in terms of citizenship. Dhalla has a high-priced lawyer, who is obviously now decided that their strategy will be to try and intimidate these women into backing down.
oops...double post.
Attempted thread diversion aside in respect to the Schreiber Inquiry, why should there be discussions here about it, and why do people find it interesting that there isn't?
Why should there be discussions about it? Well, people don't HAVE to discuss it, but I think what was being pointed out by someone else above is that considering it is a big political inquiry in Canada and involves a former PM and hundreds of thousands in cash, it's unusual not to see it discussed on a political forum.
If you want to start a thread on that, you have the technology.
