Federal Green Party leader Elizabeth May is eyeing Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound as a possible ticket to the House of Commons.
In a telephone interview yesterday evening, May said many Conservative voters in Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound are "progressive," something Prime Minister Stephen Harper is not. That means there's a good chance the party can swing enough right-leaning, and left-wing, voters to win the riding, she said.
http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1568937
I still think she'd fare best in Calgary where she can prey on the 50% non-voters and a lil momentum to get her a seat.
Is she nuts? I'm starting to seriously wonder.
Even well-liked Shane Jolley, with deep roots in the area, needed a complete dud of a Liberal candidate to come a distant 2nd. May against Larry Miller, once again way off the normal media map, would have a serious chance of downgrading the good work local Greens have done to a third place finish.
Both Dick Hibma and Shane Jolley would make far tougher contenders in this riding.
One wonders if May is just looking for places to run that limit her chances of winning. I would love to hear her answers on nuclear power in this riding though. That might be worth the price of a bag of popcorn.
Ha BA, that's the first thing I thought before even clicking on the thread. "Hmmm nuclear power plant...." 
I think it would an interesting race. I know Larry would win however the media attention to Owen Sound would be nice.
The fewer outsiders like me who know about the Bruce, the better.
It's mine, I tell you. All mine.
You urban carpet bagger!
Webgear, do you think Owen Sound would get much attention?
I didn't learn much about Central Nova. All I ever learned about it was when Peter went home to dig potatos with his dog after Belinda dumped him.
Just letting you know, I am claiming about 5000 acres south of Owen Sound. I am hoping to avoid any conflict with you.
Maybe our two nations can work together.
Local riding? No, no, no - it's in Ontario ....
So the circus would be right next door to Huron-Bruce - yuck! Jolley took a bit of a hit with his bike vigalontie. So I don't think he will be in the running. I think the problem is that rural folks tend to not like carpet-baggers and parachut candidates.
I believe the greens may have a chance to win the riding if Miller was to retire. They are the only real political force in the riding, the NDP and Liberals are barely existence.
I don't think you can really make that claim of the Liberals. Thom Noble and (who was the guy before that), were awful candidates. Pick someone better and the Liberals are a strong force again. The riding has a long history of Liberal -Conservative switches, no reason to beleive that has really changed in the face of good candidates.
And again I would just about give anything to be a part of the conversation with May and all the local Power Workers, who, coincidently are also a large part of the Green base in the riding as weird as that is.
I just can't see May being THAT much of a whackjob, but maybe she is?
Currently I am not sure who would be considered a strong Liberal candidate in the riding.
I suppose they could parachute someone in however I do not believe that would be an effective tactic at this time.
It would be interesting watching, the meeting between May and the Bruce workers.
She may just be that much of a whack job.
Lots of prominent Liberals around who might make the jump if Miller wasn't there. There was quite a good turn out for Wayne Easter in Chesley earlier this week. I was surprised how many people showed up. Made it easier to be a fly on the wall
Ba are you spying for the NDP now.
I think Miller will be around for a while, so until he leaves I doubt the Liberals will get an effective candidate.
No Wayne's a friend
Yeh Larry has at least two more elections under his belt I would guess.
In a telephone interview yesterday evening, May said many Conservative voters in Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound are "progressive," something Prime Minister Stephen Harper is not.
Strange; I thought BGOS was more of a "Reform/Alliance" than "PC" stronghold--that's where Larry Miller's origins are, and that's where Bill Murdoch's allegiances lie.
It's maverick populism, not progressivism, that's kickstarted Green support here. For a more genuine "PC/Green" stronghold, look to Dufferin-Caledon, instead.
That's not Grey-Bruce's heritage at all. The area has a long, long history of progressive politics. Yes it is populism at heart, but this is an area that defies descriptions in some ways in regards to traditional political labels.
Bill was a long time Liberal until failing to get the nomination in 1990- and the rest is history. And I wouldn't call Bill a Reformer, not in the sense most people mean anyway.
Larry has a long history within the PCs and never was a Reformer.
Grey-Bruce residents - right across the political spectrum are a strange mix of many traditions and you are just as likely to find a 'right-winger' supporting very economic progressive policies and progressives talking about small 'c' conservative fiscal policies on things like deficit spending.
Wow, guess she did as much damage in Central Nova as she could, and now it is time to move along, chucking aside the ground network built once again. Can't have her actually create a base that could challenge Mckay, and of course this was true of her Liberal friend back in London. Her actions seriously reminds me of economic development officers and do nothing environmental orgs. They pretend they are doing something, but nothing really gets done, but hey they get to collect a wage for do nothing and keep funding away from other orgs who are. However, in her case it is just a chess board placement to try to play the spoiler, IMV, much like Sterk in BC. And no neither are nuts, they are well educated women, who are historically very right non-social justice market based CONservatives and thus one has to, or should, realize there is more to their actions than just a merry bunch of amateurs, playing hop scotch around Canada.
And BA, isn"t interesting that there, like here in BC, all of sudden Green Party "supporters", are all on board for forms of hydro energy that are not environmentally friendly at all, and indeed are ones that descerning environmentalists have spent years fighting against, no less. One needs only to look at the funding sources, and independent power producer contracts, to see why though, and then it all becomes clear.
Webgear, if you think Miller is going to be around for awhile, and thus no one has a chance, then speculation of May's having a good chance if Miller was gone is pretty much empty and pointless, in respect to her running there in the next election, and having a chance to win eh?!
The NDP must be doing better there, or thinking about developing a stronger base, and perhaps there was someone people could get behind, planning on running, and would thus increase the profile at the very least. Destroying the seedling foundation is more effective than doing so after a rooted foot hold gets into place!
This would have made more sense than Central Nova in the first place.
Webgear, if you think Miller is going to be around for awhile, and thus no one has a chance, then speculation of May's having a good chance if Miller was gone is pretty much empty and pointless, in respect to her running there in the next election, and having a chance to win eh?!
The NDP must be doing better there, or thinking about developing a stronger base, and perhaps there was someone people could get behind, planning on running, and would thus increase the profile at the very least. Destroying the seedling foundation is more effective than doing so after a rooted foot hold gets into place!
Remind
It is politics, anything could happen in a short amount of time. Miller could do something very stupid and destroy his support base, which would allow May to win. I am saying I think May and the green party have the best chance at winning outside of Miller and the conservatives.
The NDP is non existent in the riding, the same candidate for the last three elections and she has done a piss poor job.
The NDP has not made any gains in the popular vote in any of the last three elections. I know hardcore NDP voters that will not vote for her.
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We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.
So I guess she's not planning to run in one of the possible by-elections over the next year that people have been speculating about ?
And BA, isn"t interesting that there, like here in BC, all of sudden Green Party "supporters", are all on board for forms of hydro energy that are not environmentally friendly at all, and indeed are ones that descerning environmentalists have spent years fighting against, no less. One needs only to look at the funding sources, and independent power producer contracts, to see why though, and then it all becomes clear.
I have to disagree that this assessment as the main reason why and it's not 'all of a sudden.' I know BC politics and the environmental movement and am slowly getting to know the 'politics' here. BA probably can speak better to it because he's been here longer but his assessment seems pretty bang on to what I've got to know so far. Politics and the general political spectrum of people here is can be down right bizzare compared to other places. Trying to compare it to BC just doesn't work. I've pretty much had to give up anything I knew before to try and get a handle on what the heck goes on here and the reasons why people think the way they do. In general people just don't seem to fit into generalized labels of this is Con, Libs, NDP, left, right or whatever. Take windpower which is also big around here. Some of the most diehard opponents against it that I've met are who in every other sense if I met them would be considered 'left' and some others who I've met who either are for it or just really don't get what the big deal is in many other sense 'right.' I have quickly learned when meeting people that knowing who they generally vote for doesn't necessarily mean much at all in getting what their general world view is, moreso then any other place I've been. When it comes to people who are active environmentally whether personally or in groups there really isn't some sort of meta politics or political leanings driving them at least not in a way that can easily be pinned down into being more one entity or type then another. Same seems to apply to just about any community issue I've gotten involved with as well.
I've met Green Party supporters that are pro, anti or just avoid talking much about nuclear power, same with NDPers so to say it's only big G 'green' enviromentalists that aren't discerning in their political vote booth choices doesn't represent on the ground reality. I actually can't see anyone winning or doing well here if they were vocally anti nuke no matter what party they belong too. Being actively anti-nuke here or making it part of your main platform would be tantamount to banging your head against the wall. Love it or hate it nuclear power and the plant is a huge driver economically in this area. Most people I would say likely would know someone who is directly involved in it or indirectly through work that supports it. It would be similar to going into an area that depends on something like the auto industry and saying cars pollute, cars are bad we're calling for it all to be shut down. Practically, if you are generally an environmentalist here and base your vote or active political work primarly on the nuke question as the main environmental issue of whatever party or candidate you support there really isn't much choice to be had. If that is the case, ,might as well just stay home, ignore the numerous other environmental issues that are a concern and doodle around in your garden.
So yeah I guess it is about money but not so much just about funding sources and backroom backers of projects and the like. It's about the money that people go to the store to buy things like food with and the people who own or work in the stores who sell them those things.
Remind
It is politics, anything could happen in a short amount of time. Miller could do something very stupid and destroy his support base, which would allow May to win. I am saying I think May and the green party have the best chance at winning outside of Miller and the conservatives.
The NDP is non existent in the riding, the same candidate for the last three elections and she has done a piss poor job.
The NDP has not made any gains in the popular vote in any of the last three elections. I know hardcore NDP voters that will not vote for her.
Last election was my first one here and knowing practically nothing about the candidates themselves or much about the actual party workings in terms of elections I attended an all candidates debate. It sucked actually because in the end I had to choose party or person in it's most stark terms. Frankly I detest that. No not all candidates are perfect but usually it's not so stark. I actually wish I hadn't attended a debate and talked briefly with each candidate as it would have made marking my X a whole lot easier.
Aaarrrggghhh double post.
A sure sign I better get back outside, despite the rain, and get my fencing done.
Sorry remind as much as I would like to suggest there is some kind of NDP growth in the riding it just isn't true. The NDP has all but disappeared in BGOS. Due to some personality politics many of the long time activists have left or have been sitting out. The strong NDP presence in the area is Huron-Bruce and it is no accident that it isn't on May's short list. Huron-Bruce has a long history of really strong NDP candidates (except for a provincial and then a couple of federal elections in the early part of this decade- that guy was an idiot) who have stayed with the party for the most part and are strong forces still in other walks of life in the riding. May would not fair well against some of the potential candidates being talked about in Huron-Bruce, and of course there is a strong Liberal team too, so we wouldn't want to step on those toes.
The growth of the Greens in BGOS is a naturally occuring phenom, mostly due to the hard work of Shane Jolley and the creation of a presence through the over the top supportive local daily newspaper. With two alternatives in disarray, or suffering from low quality candidates the Greens filled the vaccuum. However, it would be wrong to suggest the Greens have deep roots. Both Dick Hibma and Shane Jolley had high profiles before being candidates and with the vaccuum that propelled them into a strong, but distant 2nd place. I don't think that will always be the case. Rumour is that Hibma is not planning on running and my guess is Shane will go provincial were he might have a serious chance if Bill doesn't run again. So the next election will likely see a more traditional re-alignment. I know for sure the Liberals are targeting the riding looking for high profile candidates.
Huron-Bruce had someone running last election that had a long anti-nuke history and that didn't go so well. Previous NDP candidates in Huron-Bruce and the old Bruce riding have had strong connections to the Point. So nuclear power, like wind power here cuts across all ideological lines and most get the importance of nuclear power both to the local economy and the broader provincial one.
That being said May would have to be a complete whack job to think she could win here. From reading the article it is clear May doesn't get the riding, has no idea how this distinctive region thinks, and would be a complete diaster. Why she wouldn't build on her base in Central Nova, or go next door in a by-election is very, very proplexing.
Thanks for the insight Eliza and BA, interesting in many ways, and then one wonders why indeed she would run there, as opposed to the riding net door to CN, or even remain in CN itself? Has familiarity bred contempt already out there? Now that provincial GP money can't flow to the federal GP, as the light has been shone, is NS of no use to her?
Webgear's most recent comments still indicate that unless there is a complete Miller breakdown her chances are nil. However, had she run there, as opposed to CN, in the first place, her second run might have actually had some weight.
BA, I was thinking maybe you were thinking about running, and she was heading you off! ;)
It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good.
Seems to me even the energy panacea of wind turbines might prove problematic for any politician, perhaps Greens the most. Last week or so, I ran across an article in the news about farmers upset with the deal Hydro One is shoving at them for the high power lines cutting through thier properties. The line is for electricity being generated on the Lake Huron coast, routed to Milton. (read, Toronto)
Meanwhile, the same on shore/off shore winds that make wind turbines a good idea on Lake Huron and along Lake Erie can be felt right in the Golden Horseshoe & GTA. What's more, power generated on the Lake Ontario shore is right on site where the end users are-- meaning you don't lose a significant percentage of the electicity generated on the long power lines.
Seems all the inconveniences of going green will be born by country folk, to the benifit of the NIMBY's in Toranna, who don't want wind turbines blocking their view of the condo developments on Lake Ontariariario.
A fast federal politician might side step this issue by saying-- correctly-- that this is all a provincial juristiction, but with federal funds snaking their way into green projects, one might inquire of a federal politician if it would be their policy to encourage or discourage, the continuance of rural screwage for the sake of the latte lickers in Toronto the Good.
were local nuclear unions involved in that Green Blue conference a while back ?
what if those of us who weren't nuclear workers advocated that eg. these workers got the jobs in new clean energy industries in the area?
it's not just about putting up windmills on skylines, but about making the windmills, solar panels, geothermal systems, components of green housing, in factories.
Huron-Bruce has a long history of really strong NDP candidates (except for a provincial and then a couple of federal elections in the early part of this decade- that guy was an idiot) who have stayed with the party for the most part and are strong forces still in other walks of life in the riding.
I would respectfully disagree with your parenthetical expression.
me too ;) but I did not get it until you pointed it out.
Seems all the inconveniences of going green will be born by country folk, to the benifit of the NIMBY's in Toranna, who don't want wind turbines blocking their view of the condo developments on Lake Ontariariario.
A fast federal politician might side step this issue by saying-- correctly-- that this is all a provincial juristiction, but with federal funds snaking their way into green projects, one might inquire of a federal politician if it would be their policy to encourage or discourage, the continuance of rural screwage for the sake of the latte lickers in Toronto the Good.
Careful Tommy, they will burn you at the stake for comments like those.
Us... rural folks must do our part to make the GTA happy. They are the greater good, and are smarter than us.
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We are like cloaks, one thinks of us only when it rains.
I would respectfully disagree with your parenthetical expression.
I believe BA has painted the picture acutely.
Conservative MP Larry Miller says it would be a poor decision for Green party leader Elizabeth May to run in Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound, as most area voters prefer someone local to represent them in Ottawa.
"I think in most areas, and particularly in rural ridings, it's important to be from there. It's certainly not a prerequisite . . . but ultimately it's the people that make the decision," Miller said yesterday.
But local Green party co-president Randy Dryburgh said the fact that May is a party leader would make her hometown less important to voters if she were to run here.
Selecting a Green candidate will ultimately come down to who has the best odds to win and who would best represent the riding, he said.
"Certainly, it's pretty tough to beat Elizabeth May (to become the) candidate in your riding and I would be very pleased to have her run," Dryburgh said. "On the other hand, if we have a really super local person, I think I'd be equally as happy to work with that person."
In a story published in yesterday's Sun Times, the Green Party of Canada confirmed that Bruce- Grey-Owen Sound is among a handful of ridings under consideration for a run by the former lawyer and environmentalist.
EMay former; lawyer, Mulroney PR person, environmentalist and soon it will be politician. ;)
Nice to see that they believe, or should I say still believe, that hometown candidates do not matter. I mean, it worked so well for them in CN, that she is stil not a MP.
I would respectfully disagree with your parenthetical expression.
I believe BA has painted the picture acutely.
Thanks for the insight Eliza and BA, interesting in many ways, and then one wonders why indeed she would run there, as opposed to the riding net door to CN, or even remain in CN itself? Has familiarity bred contempt already out there? Now that provincial GP money can't flow to the federal GP, as the light has been shone, is NS of no use to her? Webgear's most recent comments still indicate that unless there is a complete Miller breakdown her chances are nil. However, had she run there, as opposed to CN, in the first place, her second run might have actually had some weight. BA, I was thinking maybe you were thinking about running, and she was heading you off! ;)
BA lives in Huron-Bruce riding, like I do.
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!
This could lead to confusion, mind if we call all riddings Bruce?
Ya, I figured that out with scott's comment! ;)
Just so there is no confusion, I am a local boy from Grey County.
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!I would respectfully disagree with your parenthetical expression.
I believe BA has painted the picture acutely.
Who is that idiot - I wonder if I voted for him?.
Or worse - campaigned for him!
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!were local nuclear unions involved in that Green Blue conference a while back ?
what if those of us who weren't nuclear workers advocated that eg. these workers got the jobs in new clean energy industries in the area?
it's not just about putting up windmills on skylines, but about making the windmills, solar panels, geothermal systems, components of green housing, in factories.
Well, you are making an assumption that the "progressive workers" see the nuclear industry as bad for the environment when in fact most see as good for the environment. We have long moved past the fear of a nuclear meltdown, and the mistaken belief and obscutation of "nuclear weapons" building and such.
I have quite a few lefty friends who are not too pleased with our farm land being turned into turbo land - and agree with the notion of once again the rural being used as a different kind of "resource extraction" for Toronto. I am humoured when I see the "push back" in Toronto of NIMBY crowd.
If they all like wind power so much, perhaps our provincial parks could line those shore line - making those areas productive in the off season - irony knows no bounds!
I would respectfully disagree with your parenthetical expression.
I believe BA has painted the picture acutely.
BA does everything cutely.
BA, sorry I meant to write accurately.
When I first came across some discontent in rural areas regarding Wind Turbines, I laughed it off, because--thought I in my vast wisdom-- that was where the wind happens to be. Tough luck, suck it up.
However, it was pointed out to me that the normal wind deadening effect I experience here in London doesn't apply to the GTA. In fact, what makes wind turbines viable on the Lake Erie shore and the Huron shore is the very same phenomena one finds on the shores of the Golden Horseshoe.
Combine that with power loss over power lines, and for maximum efficiency, generating power as close to the consumer is critical.
Later, I learned that there are 64 off shore sites that if exploited, could provide Ontario with all it's current electrical needs. However, the Liberal government had declared a moritorium on all off shore wind turbine sites. Which is perplexing, because no one minds the scores of natural gas wells currently in production in Lake Erie. The moritorium has since been lifted, I think.
Then, we have health concerns regarding those who live close to wind turbines. Initially, I was willing to chalk this up to psychosomatic stuff, but I've seen reports that low frequency sounds seem to affect some people, and not others. So, there's something to this.
I suspect also that wind generation is being constrained to artificially make nuclear generation appear economically viable. The original selling job for the reactors rested on what turned out to be highly optimistic life spans of the cooling systems. That optimistic time line made it possible to amortize the original cost over a long period of time, which, as we know, wasn't that long.
I am not anti-nuclear because I am afraid of meltdowns or other health concerns long or short, real or imagined, but because I've never been convinced that it's in any way economically viable. I don't think it was originally, and I don't think it is now.
Now, both private and public funds have been spent to bring the nuclear plants back on line, and I suspect, once again, we need some fancy book keeping some flexible interpretation of physics in order to ensure that the right people are making money off the projects.
I happen to think that wind turbines are the most elloquent, most parsimonious sollution to electical generation problems, both in terms of every day economics, and in terms of environmental concerns.
Unfortunately, this new technology is dependant on old politics-- hold it back to make sure nuclear makes it's bucks, no matter what the higher cost of electisity does to our personal bottom line, or the bottom lines of the embattled manufacturing sector, and where they are allowed, shoved into regions where people have the least political clout to object or mitigate their placement.
Old politics is the problem.
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!I would respectfully disagree with your parenthetical expression.
I believe BA has painted the picture acutely.
Who is that idiot - I wonder if I voted for him?.
Just as long as you don't have to go out drinking with him or anything. My God get him in a bar and he never shuts up!
Tommy I was a very strong proponent of wind power, alternative energy in general, for decades- until I actually saw it in action on a large scale. The first few that went up I thought - jeez aren't they cute. Now they are everywhere and taking up a lot of good farm land. Each turbine takes up about 3-5 acres of land. It is always good flat food producing land too. I still believe that a decentralized enegry system that allows individual generation would be the best way to promote conservation, rural economic development by owning the energy production and a host of other positives. Alas politicians need some shiny thing to point at to show how great they are. Actual smart actions, that's to unsexy and not very photo-opable.
So you start putting up hundreds of those things you start reducing our food producing land, mucking with land values, both parodoxically reducing and increasing them depending on where you are. I've spent time in houses near to these things, and I mean the really big ones, not the little thing at Ex Place in Toronto and it gets really uncomfortable I can see where it would keep people up, disturb sleep and mess with your system if you were susceptible.
I've always been really sceptical of the Green Energy Act because one of the most sensible spots would be the waterfront, or even out in the water along the Golden Horseshoe but it will never, ever happen. Much easier to put all that stuff in politically unimportant rural areas, just like garbage, sewage sludge and on and on.
Every time I am in the city I see tower after tower blazing lights away with not a sole in the building, but to support that the barn my great grandfather built, and still has generations of life left in it, will be tore down to make way for the new line. It might mean the house will go too. And that story is repeated on place after place all the way from the Bruce to Milton. That's progress right?
Destroying rural identify is progress for urban folks.
I still think wind-- unless some solar electric that can harness in the infra-red comes along-- is the best way to generate power. And, I think at the end of the day, we'd still see turbines in rural areas like we see from Copenhagen to Long Point, or around the Dundalk area, and at Ferndale.
But, they shouldn't have been the first places to put them.
This is all because of a mindset that comes from burning coal in the olden days. Coal fired plants located in cities killed people. And not through some kind of latentcy, but killed people quickly when there was, say, an atmospheric inversion. Such a thing happened in the 50's or 60's in London, England.
So, the thinking of the day was to re-locate these plants far from major urban centers. And when you do that, you lose, I guess depending on the distance and efficiency of the grid, anywhere from about 5% to 15% of the electricity generated at the power plant.
The first major wind turbines should have been located off the GTA coast, or on the shore.
Aesthetically, there's something about those windmills turning that is both awe inspiring and creepy at the same time. They're surreal. We have a big transfer press at work, and when it runs it's interesting to see people stop and stare while the huge mechanism cycles. It's something humans do when big things move, I guess.
And, they clutter the view of the landscape. But, not as bad as telephone, hydro and cable lines do. But, we tune those out. You have to make a point of looking at those wires that are in our vision at any given time, in order to see them. Microwave towers for our indespensible however did we survive without them cell phones are pretty bad, too. And portable signs. And bill boards. And all the other visual pollution we have managed to tune out.
Wind turbines supply us with a major challenge this way, but considering all the other stuff we've managed to mentally tune out, we should be able to cope, considering that wind turbines are actually helping us survive.
If she runs in a riding she doesn't have any connection to, I wonder if she will be perceived as a parachute candidate the way John Tory was in the by-election in Haliburton-Kawartha-Lakes-Brock?
Tommy I was a very strong proponent of wind power, alternative energy in general, for decades- until I actually saw it in action on a large scale. The first few that went up I thought - jeez aren't they cute. Now they are everywhere and taking up a lot of good farm land. Each turbine takes up about 3-5 acres of land.
3-5 acres? These cows would disagree. I've seen it on a large scale in Alberta too and they certainly don't take up 3-5 acres of land each. Urban sprawl is a far greater threat to farmland.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Wb_deichh_drei_kuhs.jpg
