If she runs in a riding she doesn't have any connection to, I wonder if she will be perceived as a parachute candidate the way John Tory was in the by-election in Haliburton-Kawartha-Lakes-Brock?
Didn't hurt in London NC, even if she didn't win. And unlike John Tory, a popular existing local representative wouldn't be resigning on behalf of her hubris...
Tommy I was a very strong proponent of wind power, alternative energy in general, for decades- until I actually saw it in action on a large scale. The first few that went up I thought - jeez aren't they cute. Now they are everywhere and taking up a lot of good farm land. Each turbine takes up about 3-5 acres of land.
3-5 acres? These cows would disagree. I've seen it on a large scale in Alberta too and they certainly don't take up 3-5 acres of land each. Urban sprawl is a far greater threat to farmland.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Wb_deichh_drei_kuhs.jpg
Each individual turbine has a well built up road into them. They are never right at the road, except for about 4 I have seen. The road is the thing that takes up the most land. Don't forget in Ontario most farm land is still in 100 acre parcels. Few turbines are situated so that several are on one parcel. That means an individual road and these are not the tradtional farm lane, to each and every turbine. Add that to the footprint of the actual turbine and you get 3-5 acres.
As for your picture
1. that's a very small turbine
2. the cows are fenced away from the turbine - it is impossible to tell because of the perspective how much is fenced off
3. pasture land is much different than crop land
4. that one is placed very close to the road, which as I mentioned above is generally not the case in this area.
5. Those look like European ear tags so it does not suggest the realities are the same as southwestern Ontario
6. I never presume to preach to people from other areas based on my experiences here, maybe you should try a simular approach.
Each individual turbine has a well built up road into them. They are never right at the road, except for about 4 I have seen. The road is the thing that takes up the most land.
This reality is part of the issues with the 1000's and perhaps 10's of thousands, of IPP's proposed across the province of BC.
They will all require roads built into them, as well as land cleared for transmission lines, both to the communities they are alleged to be going to service, and then more to the main transmission lines already going to the USA.
The resulting impacts upon the environment and wild life will be significant, say nothing of the project itself.
They are hardly environmentally friendly and will perhaps have a larger emission footprints than what is in place currently. Moreover, we have more than enough hydro in BC for our domestic use, this is all about providing hydro, and water, to the USA.
6.I never presume to preach to people from other areas based on my experiences here, maybe you should try a simular approach.
Here here, I am so sick of people from back east pontificating on BC, that I am disgusted.
When we are talking about BC as a whole, its a province with contention over a variety of policiies proposed, and the political economy around them. That has general interest and general comparability across the country.
People in BC will know more, but talking policies and politics among people who know something about it does not require local knowledge.
When it comes to IPP and run-of-river projects in BC, thats something people outside the province are going to know less about, and you'll find that the vast majority of comments on that in the many threads have been by people from BC. I know I've never said anything about it.
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!If she runs in a riding she doesn't have any connection to, I wonder if she will be perceived as a parachute candidate the way John Tory was in the by-election in Haliburton-Kawartha-Lakes-Brock?
Didn't hurt in London NC, even if she didn't win. And unlike John Tory, a popular existing local representative wouldn't be resigning on behalf of her hubris...
Except London was urban and not rural riding and it was a by-election and not a general election. Rural folk don't like parachute candidates and that is what May is - hip-hopping across the country to find a place to blunk herself down. In reality, she wasn't even from Central Nova or really from Nova Scotia - history revision. The place she lived the most and most recently is Ottawa. If she really wanted bang for her buck she should run against Baird. It's the riding she was living in, I believe.
When we are talking about BC as a whole, its a province with contention over a variety of policiies proposed, and the political economy around them. That has general interest and general comparability across the country.
I will grant general interest, and some general comparability, but overall, there is very little comparability IMV. Hell, there isn't even large amounts of comparability between VIsland and most of BC.
People in BC will know more, but talking policies and politics among people who know something about it does not require local knowledge.
Of course it does, I could imagine the reaction if BC people started telling Nova Scotians, or Quebecers, what policies and politics they need, because if they don't listen and act it will impact all of Canada. IMV, if some people worked on their own province's policies and politics, as opposed to telling BCers what needs to be done so they can more, or supposedly anyway, easily do it in their own province, then more might actually get done at their own local level. It is shirking responsibility and indeed blame off, for their own lacks in their own provincial efforts, onto Bcers.
Though I also recognize that some other people also have an agenda when they get into BC's political affairs, from an either negative or positive stance.
When it comes to IPP and run-of-river projects in BC, thats something people outside the province are going to know less about, and you'll find that the vast majority of comments on that in the many threads have been by people from BC. I know I've never said anything about it.
And why not, if you, or others, are going to be all involved with other discussions regarding BC? Afterall, apparently what BC does, or does not do, impacts ALL of Canada.
The problem with wind - and said many times - is that it is not dependable - when the wind doesn't blow there is no energy. Also it's slow powering up and down and thus as a baseload for consistent energy supply it is poor. At this point in Ontario, as they slap up these windmills, the province is giving them a "sweetheart deal" at about $3000. bucks more than nuclear. In other words, nuclear is still the cheaper and dependable energy producer.
Of course, I remember the libs promising to get rid of those dirty coal fired plants, and they are still there. Since the province has reached its reduced emissions targets - without having to close down those polluting plants - due to the recession and closing of factories (steel, mills, auto sectors) - the libs are looking the other way.
Now there is a good place to creat green factory jobs (hopefully at the same rate of pay) as those good paying jobs can't be replaced with cheap labour.
Anyway, in most ways I agree with BA, if we were able to create our own little windmills, solar stuff, retrofit our homes to make them passive, and just overall reduce demand, it would be the best way to go. Alas, our capitalist based society does not support the idealism of consume less, share better philosophy.
3-5 acres? These cows would disagree. I've seen it on a large scale in Alberta too and they certainly don't take up 3-5 acres of land each. Urban sprawl is a far greater threat to farmland.
ah, home sweet home.
I was there only a few weeks ago. I stopped and visited my uncle for few hours to talk about starting a farm.
The problem with wind - and said many times - is that it is not dependable - when the wind doesn't blow there is no energy. Also it's slow powering up and down and thus as a baseload for consistent energy supply it is poor.
And said falsely. This is true of one wind farm, without any kind of energy storage.
Thanks Webgear.
I was at a sale at this farm in Sullivan a few weeks back. Seemed like a nice set up. Fairly mid-range price for a farm these days and there would eventually be some cementing issues. But then again I have those too!
Might be wrong locale though.
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=7841474
The problem with wind - and said many times - is that it is not dependable - when the wind doesn't blow there is no energy. Also it's slow powering up and down and thus as a baseload for consistent energy supply it is poor.
And said falsely. This is true of one wind farm, without any kind of energy storage.
3,4 and 5 would cost billions to make feasable and make an over-run at Darlington look good (which is hard to do). And some of it has huge negative environmental impacts.
6 is basically the same as being in favour of summer.
And take a wild guess where solar farm proposals are ending up in rural Southwestern Ontario. You guessed it, on the flattest land available - which surprise, surprise is some of the best food producing land in the world. Land they are not making any more of.
I am all in favour of alternative energy (and have sunk my own money into it) - but mega-projects always suck- no matter how 'friendly' you try to sell the technology as. Alternative energy mega-projects are becoming the latest urban-oriented sprawl into rural Ontario.
BA
It is close to home. The price is pretty good. I am also looking around Pinkerton.
I knew a girl from Tara and had plenty of drinks at the Desboro Inn.
Another thing that I have noticed that there is no livestock around the windmills.
I have been looking for a while however the size of each windmill is very hard to find.
I know there was a large wind farm going to be placed near Blue Mountain however I believe urban folks (mostly from the GTA) with large cottages on the mountain have the farm cancelled.
Tommy I was a very strong proponent of wind power, alternative energy in general, for decades- until I actually saw it in action on a large scale. The first few that went up I thought - jeez aren't they cute. Now they are everywhere and taking up a lot of good farm land. Each turbine takes up about 3-5 acres of land.
3-5 acres? These cows would disagree. I've seen it on a large scale in Alberta too and they certainly don't take up 3-5 acres of land each. Urban sprawl is a far greater threat to farmland.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Wb_deichh_drei_kuhs.jpg
Each individual turbine has a well built up road into them. They are never right at the road, except for about 4 I have seen. The road is the thing that takes up the most land. Don't forget in Ontario most farm land is still in 100 acre parcels. Few turbines are situated so that several are on one parcel. That means an individual road and these are not the tradtional farm lane, to each and every turbine. Add that to the footprint of the actual turbine and you get 3-5 acres.
As for your picture
1. that's a very small turbine
2. the cows are fenced away from the turbine - it is impossible to tell because of the perspective how much is fenced off
3. pasture land is much different than crop land
4. that one is placed very close to the road, which as I mentioned above is generally not the case in this area.
5. Those look like European ear tags so it does not suggest the realities are the same as southwestern Ontario
6. I never presume to preach to people from other areas based on my experiences here, maybe you should try a simular approach.
Not that small, probably a few hundred kilowatts, which is on the high end of small or the low end of medium. But I think you're talking several megawatts. A 100 acre parcel is about 40 hectares or 400,000 square metres, which is about 630 metres a side assuming a square parcel. Given that to limit turbulence the turbines should be say 250 metres apart and rows of turbines 500 metres apart that's at most 6 turbines per parcel not considering setback requirements, and if a parcel had that many turbines an adjacent parcel would have less. If the parcel were bounded by county roads the towers would be less than 200 metres from a county road, but we'll say each road is 200 metres long and 5 metres wide. The roads would total 6x5X200 or 6000 square metres, which is 0.6 hectares for all six turbines or 0.1 hectares (about 0.25 acres) per turbine (you did say the 3-5 acres was mostly access roads). The tower bases might 8 metres in diameter with a footprint of about 50 square metres, but I'll grant Webgear's 1 acre per turbine total footprint of the turbine rather than just the tower, or 0.4 hectares per turbine even though it's likely less. The area required for a substation would be negligible in comparision. So 2.4 hectares plus 0.6 hectares or 3 hectares all told, or 0.5 hectares per turbine. This is less than 1.25 acres, not 3-5 acres, although perhaps another hectare would be used temporarily in construction of all 6 turbines.
Having said all that, there is still plenty of available land in Ontario not suitable for farmland that can be used for large scale wind energy. The east side of Lake Superior north of Sault St. Marie for example.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Prince_wind_farm.jpg.
Smaller wind turbines might be more suitable for productive farmland. I grew up in Ontario but I'll admit I don't know much about the farming aspects of rural Ontario. I just can't stand exageration though, whether it's to do with the direct footprint of wind power or the carbon emissions of the tar sands.
The problem with wind - and said many times - is that it is not dependable - when the wind doesn't blow there is no energy. Also it's slow powering up and down and thus as a baseload for consistent energy supply it is poor.
And said falsely. This is true of one wind farm, without any kind of energy storage.
[/quote]
3,4 and 5 would cost billions to make feasable and make an over-run at Darlington look good (which is hard to do). And some of it has huge negative environmental impacts.
6 is basically the same as being in favour of summer.
And take a wild guess where solar farm proposals are ending up in rural Southwestern Ontario. You guessed it, on the flattest land available - which surprise, surprise is some of the best food producing land in the world. Land they are not making any more of.
I am all in favour of alternative energy (and have sunk my own money into it) - but mega-projects always suck- no matter how 'friendly' you try to sell the technology as. Alternative energy mega-projects are becoming the latest urban-oriented sprawl into rural Ontario.
[/quote]
1 and 2 are enough to refute your point, but pumped hydro storage (4) is in use around the world. Actually, I tend to agree with you about mega projects. Batteries of various kinds tend to work better on a smaller scale. Of course some of the flattest places for solar power are rooftops and walls or windows, most of which are in urban areas. Solar rooftops and/or transparent PV windows could turn office towers into zero-net energy buildings in the not too distant future.
Another thing that I have noticed that there is no livestock around the windmills.
I have been looking for a while however the size of each windmill is very hard to find.
I know there was a large wind farm going to be placed near Blue Mountain however I believe urban folks (mostly from the GTA) with large cottages on the mountain have the farm cancelled.
It may or may not depend on the kind of farm the wind farm is situated on or it may have something to do with the higher maximum noise levels allowed in Ontario compared to Europe. Just speculating.
I saw wind turbines in holland within 50 meters of the farmhouses. (But that was 15 years ago) perhaps the farmers and animals have moved away.
Another thing that I have noticed that there is no livestock around the windmills.
I have been looking for a while however the size of each windmill is very hard to find.
I know there was a large wind farm going to be placed near Blue Mountain however I believe urban folks (mostly from the GTA) with large cottages on the mountain have the farm cancelled.
In reality, she wasn't even from Central Nova or really from Nova Scotia - history revision. The place she lived the most and most recently is Ottawa. If she really wanted bang for her buck she should run against Baird. It's the riding she was living in, I believe.
Not exactly. She lived in Ottawa-Vanier, two ridings over. That riding is historically Liberal (due to the francophone history), the next one over is Ottawa Centre where David Chernushenko used to poll around 10%, and then Ottawa West-Nepean which is usually a Liberal-Conservative swing (bellwether) riding. She probably figured she couldn't win there.
Debator, May isn't rational anyways - think about what you just said: "She probably figured she couldn't win there." What ever made her think she could win in Central Nova??? So thinking she could win isn't really what this is all about in MPO.
Considering May's progressive conservative roots and her recent love in for all things liberal, she be best in run in conservative/liberals switch ridings - that way she plays both ends! 
And personally, running in a mainly rural Ontario riding is not going to get her a win - but make my day.
interesting conversation on wind.
a few comments;
- sizing depends on site i think, eg. travelling along the Gaspe route i saw a wind farm that was up high on a ridge overlooking the St. Lawrence, and the turbines were rather closer than those seen in rural ontario.
- i think the solar and geothermal options need to be explored equally, not because wind isn't enough, as has been pointed out, but because of the sensibility of placement on buildings close to use, and diversifying to garner energy from different sites/seasons/conditions.
- there's James Bay too.
- a key point was made on the sending of energy to the US. i've seen numbers that stated almost 80% of Ontario's produced electricity was sent south. would need to check this. why don't US states produce their own? we'd also be subjected less to inertial corporate-fossilized statements whining about how alternative energy 'will never be enough'.
- i never said that nuclear workers were 'progressive' in being for alternative energy. this is a problem which i'm trying to address by suggesting that nuclear workers could be onside in working for truly clean power, and in fact nuclear workers are a huge obstacle at present to collective efforts to clean up our act. I was at an event in Port Hope, site of irradiated civilians for decades, and mentioned that international union leaders had supported fair transition to clean energy, and was questioned on this afterward by a local union leader, nicely, mind you. i understand the dilemma. it's going to take a lot of listening and talking i think by all parties- nuclear workers and non-nuclear workers and otherwise-concerned-residents. i think and hope there's a way to ensure continued full employment, even expanded employment in production of truly clean power. we just have to make sure unions aren't busted by the likes of Harper/provincials/bankers as old corporations restructure in the current economic charade. unions need to stay, workers with good arrangements, and shifted to clean green. not impossible but not an easy effort with the banker boys using lines and tactics to tear everyone apart in the effort.
- we cannot talk about nuclear power without talking about mining and waste. nor DU ammunition. these issues are all connected, and have groups which are allies working on many fronts associated with them.
- in Ontario as in BC we have had groups commenting on the Independent Power Producer program as well at hearings. coalitions in Ontario and BC have been working on this. link for Ontario is... [coffee, i need coffee, my mind is in another space in this season...] um, Paul Kahnert. Ont. Electricity Coalition.
The bankers behind General Electric and other management/ infrastructure players, as remind has said elsewhere, are behind the IPP programs as it is their next foot in the door to privatize and profit from energy at our, and the environment's, expense. Just as the increase in hydro billing has been- to increase it to the point where private corps who want to take over can make their hefty percentages for their own pockets. Again we are faced with the reality of IPPs set up in a context of public-private-partnership funding formulae and NAFTA/interprovincial/new bilateral investment deals. Electricity needs to stay and be reclaimed as public. Ortherwise we'll have no input in the decision-making about sourcing, pricing, or anything else.
addition to last post-
at present, while the concept of small producers is appealing, we are stuck in a dilemma.
either we get rid of public-private-partnership arrangements with are actually private-banker-rule arrangements, and get rid of the so-called 'trade'-investment deals, or we have to decline on private small producer arrangements, because the latter will open the door under the former for a giveaway of our resources and dollars.
even when some of the local producer initiatives are called 'community' projects, these need to be done in a fully public municipal manner [and even those are at risk without wary councillors strong enough to resist contracting admin and management to global infrastructure subsidiaries] or they are in danger of getting hijacked by Big Energy players, as our water 'source protection' efforts are getting hijacked.
we have gone on far too long with environmentalists, and naive 'community economic development' -type promoters thinking they can somehow avoid the big picture.
the avoidance is sending us downhill fast. is this not yet completely obvious !???
i understand there was a huge battle during earlier 'free trade' debates, with many environmental groups siding in support of NAFTA as long as it included the environmental side agreement, all of which should be obvious by now, has been ABYSMALLY USELESS.
it's time for real environmentalists to support the thread of coalitions which are working for clean public power. and at the same time fossil fuel and nuclear workers need to support the thin thread too.
BA
It is close to home. The price is pretty good. I am also looking around Pinkerton.
I knew a girl from Tara and had plenty of drinks at the Desboro Inn.
Many years ago the Desboro Tavern was THE place to go if you were looking for a drink, but under aged. Their theory seemed to be if you could get there you deserved a drink. The hall across the road only had a trough for the mens room. Good God the memories, and so much of them sort of grey!
Policywonk. There is no exageration in the total footprint. You are missing the point about all of the things that happen. It is also very funny that you are arguing against reality with theory, even when you admit you don't know anything about what is happening in rural Ontario.
Jeez not like there is a long history of that kind of thing for rural people eh
Anyway I can look at an area and figure out how many acres it might be. You have to given what I do. The average turbine takes up in total about 3-5 acres. What is it you don't get about actual pictures. The roads into these things are better constructed than many of our 'no winter maintanence' sideroads around here.
Back on topic for a change.
I had to make a feed store run on the weekend. (it is in BGOS) With the rain lots of folks around. I asked a few about what they thought of the potential challenge to Larry. Three outright laughs and head shakes and two 'who is Elizabeth May?'
This would be a serious miscalculation on the national Green braintrust. I expect a number of local voters who don't vote Conservative would vote for the local boy made good to stop May. Larry has become Chair of the Agriculture committee and a number of local organizations lobbied to get him there.
well, BA has pointed out that much of the discussion here has been off the thread topic, which is true, but it's been useful anyway.
i dropped back in here to share a reflection, [which i'll now try to make relate to the OP theme...]
when i wrote 'thin thread' in #73, the first thought that came to mind was actually 'straight and narrow'. but i've learned that phrases like this, or 'camel through the eye of a needle' tend to go over like a lead balloon at babble. maybe others have better suggestions. anyway, i may go back to using some 'old' phrases, which, though they are often associated with 'conservative-ness', may in many cases be very progressive, as in situations where we are talking for the purpose of narrowing down options to those which are good for people and planet. this effort ties into the difficulty of defining what ElizaQ and others have described as the hard-to-pin down persona of rural ontario dwellers.
The roads into these things are better constructed than many of our 'no winter maintanence' sideroads around here.
When London was tossing around the idea of twinning the water pipeline from Grand Bend, farmers pointed out that the land disturbed for the first trench hasn't returned to normal for farming, and that's some 40 years after the line was built. Looking at the access roads that run to some of the wind turbines between Copenhagen and Port Burwell, you can see they are hard packed, and won't even grow weeds. So, those access roads have to be taken into account when we look at acerage taken out of production for the turbines.
Which all goes to show how nothing is perfect. There's no free lunch in physics.
Just in politics.
And that's what May and the Greens don't want to address, any more than the other political parties want to.
[funny download delay, and edited]
Tommy are you talking about compensating farmers or what?
No, I'm talking about how no one wants to put wind turbines where they aught to go first, near the GTA. Or, for that matter, near places like Kitchener and London.
It's illustrative not just about how undesirable projects get shunted off on those who have less political pull. (not just rural folk-- ask the residents of Toronto's "Junction" about the pile drivers GO Transit wouldn't dare use in the now gentrified Parkdale) And, it's not just a class issue, or an urban vs. rural issue. In the case of wind turbines, this kind of old style politics increases costs, and reduces the efficiency of power generation. It has wide ranging effects, but the bottom line is that it takes money our of all our pockets, and certainly doesn't help Ontario maintain or create jobs.
I saw wind turbines in holland within 50 meters of the farmhouses. (But that was 15 years ago) perhaps the farmers and animals have moved away.
Currently all windmills in Grey and Dufferin counties need to be 400 away from any building.
There is talks on going placing another large wind farm near Grand Valley.
The hilarity of a thread discussion on politicians like May and Miller segueing into a discussion on blowing wind just struck me!!!
ok i just have to say this.
another reason i don't link to videos or even pdf's now is i have to download more software, usually updated every other day, with a different piece of software for every different item. and then in the middle of this process, by wireless link conks out and i have to start over. its a pain.
please can people quote the important lines or thoughts from whatever links they provide. then i'll at least get a bit of the picture.
thanks.
Tommy, i heard you on the keep-the-source-near-use thing. ie) windmills along the lake, which would be way better than the nuke plants along the lake.
nb. electricity from hydro dams is sent down from the far north. seems that windmills in the north might also be better than damming rivers.
nb. on #77- to clarify, 'old' phrases that one may find in contemporary secular or Christian usage often were 'originally' coined in Jewish, Muslim, and other ancient religions and cultures.
[knee] jerk responses to these phrases by babblers really aren't useful.
but then i wouldn't have bothered to clarify would i...
Elizabeth May was pretty clear in the past about where should would run:
Why does she get a free pass to speculating on running in a half dozen ridings, when she was so emphatic before?
BA
You ever spend anytime in Cheers in Chatworth?
I heard a segment on CBC Radio a while back about people in Ontario living near wind turbines. They claimed that the turbines were emitting very low frequency sound (some of it too low to be heard) that they were associating with sleeplessness and health problems. Anyone know anything about that?
Yes I have heard the noise complaint. There is a CTV news report about the subject. There is a thread about windmills that carries other similar articles.
http://windconcernsontario.wordpress.com/2009/04/22/reports-of-wind-farm...
Protecting Rural Ontario for Future Generations: Bringing Sanity to Wind Development in Ontario
Industrial wind development faces gale-force resistance across Ontario
Twenty Seven citizen groups across eighteen counties/regions representing thousands of concerned Ontario citizens have joined forces to create Wind Concerns Ontario.
This province-wide coalition promotes awareness of the true impacts of industrial wind power facilities on our health, environment, economy and quality of life.
Wind Concerns Ontario provides a strong, unified voice of opposition to the unchecked rush to locate over six hundred forty massive industrial wind turbines across the province in the last 5 years without the benefit of full environmental assessment. Plans to locate thousands more at an accelerated schedule, with even less oversight are tearing apart the very fabric of rural Ontario. Along with their transformers, transmission lines, overhead distribution wires and substations these industrial wind turbines threaten people and the environment in serene, historic, rural communities, on prime agricultural land, migratory bird paths, close to sensitive wetlands, designated wildlife areas and pristine shorelines.
Wind Concerns Ontario is in favour of environmentally sound solutions to our energy demands and environmental challenges. However hundreds of published reports from scientists, engineers, physicians and environmentalists refute misleading claims by wind power developers that industrial wind technology will be either effective or harmless.
Wind Concerns Ontario is committed to informing the people of Ontario as to the whole truth about industrial wind power.
Why does she get a free pass to speculating on running in a half dozen ridings, when she was so emphatic before?
I'm not sure what you mean by getting a free pass. But my guess is that the more she does this sort of musing, the less the media like her. In the number of years before dhe was GPC Leader she did a lot of hanging around and schmoozing with the Ottawa media. I know of at least one reporter who liked her parties and her general presence.
I'm thinking that if she hadn't come into her present personna with that goodwill, she would have some time ago have become for the Ottawa media a caricature of herself. But I would guess that by now she has managed to achieve that.
They claimed that the turbines were emitting very low frequency sound (some of it too low to be heard) that they were associating with sleeplessness and health problems. Anyone know anything about that?
I don't know anything about it, but this is the stuff I've seen related to this from various sources unrelated to windmills. On the T.V. show "Mythbusters" they explored the myth of the "brown note", supposedly an infra sonic or low frequency sound that can make you poop your pants. While they did bust the myth in that tbey could not find such a frequency to make you poop your pants, some of the film crew had to move away from the experiment because the inaudible sound waves were making them feel ill or anxious.
"Daily Planet" had a feature on so called "haunted" places that may actually be resonance chambers or amplifiers of low frequency sound. Again, some people might feel them, others not.
And, from some source I can't remember, it was found that some old church organs had pipes that could only be for producing sound waves below the audible range. If the makers of those pipes didn't have reason to believe they effected people in some way, why would they make them?
None of this is scientific, of course. But at this point, I would not dismiss the claims that low frequency sound from wind turbines is making some people ill as just the fabrications of ludites, or psychosomatics, or the litiginous.
BA
You ever spend anytime in Cheers in Chatworth?
That's the one that used to be across from the funeral home right? If so a few times as 2 of my cousins lived in Chatsworth and they had hot friends. In my day the two big party places were the Harb (pre-strippers) and Brothers. But man that was, ugh, 2 decades ago. Then of course there were pit parties too.
JHC I'm getting so damn old when I can think in decades. Next I'll be hiking my elastic pants up almost to my chest and complain that I could get penny candy- well for a freaking penny!!!
sigh..
will it ever end?
BA
You are not that old, I remember those days very well.
Pre-stripper days, maybe you are old.
I even remember when that fine old building on the corner of 2nd Ave and 10th St East was called the Seldon Hotel and was across the road from the Centre theatre! And then there was the Downtowner Hotel where my friend worked and all the early Summerfolk performers were often put up.
I am getting crunchy as they say.
I believe that my uncle or aunt was a manger at the Centre theatre in the late 1970s.
Is Seldon Hotel now known as Jason's Pub ?
I know there was a large wind farm going to be placed near Blue Mountain however I believe urban folks (mostly from the GTA) with large cottages on the mountain have the farm cancelled.
Wasn't just the city slickers who were opposed. I was part of my high school (Collingwood) do-gooder group when there was a lot of discussion- and I distinctly recall a lot of local resistance to wind power. Keep in mind that locals live up on the ridge full time- it isn't exclusively the domain of cottagers. I don't know of any meaningful split between urban and rural supporters of wind power- both demographics will contain very vocal for and against groups. One of the issues with the wind farm close to Blue is that it would have been situated on land that is a biosphere reserve (UN recognized I believe). I think that there certainly should have been due diligence to ensure wildlife habitat wasn't being degraded- but I've heard little about it (also been studying at Uni for a while, so not sure about the developments). I suspect a good environmental impact assessment would have cleared the way, and I'm really disappointed in general that we don't have good assessment programs in place- we should really look toward the UK where the Royal Bird Protection Society (or something like that) has been very vocal that a) wind farms are a good idea, and that b) their siting does need planning to ensure its not in wildlife corridors or nesting areas. Of course, the large condo-type development going up on the ridge now (near castle glen?) is in land that is similarly situatued in important wildlife habitat....but it is being pushed by big money developers...so of course IT is going through :(.
Some others have mentioned how offshore/nearshore winds in the GTA/golden horseshoe are the same as Lake Huron. Although I certainly agree that windmills in the GTA area are a good idea, I'm skeptical that the GTA is just as windy.
Firstly, my gut, which has been informed by sailing Georgian Bay throughout the summer all my life, and laughing at Torontarians with big expensive boats in their big expensive clubs.....but who come up to Lake Huron and Georgian Bay frequently because of the great sailing. Other boaters will doubtless tell you that Huron and Georgian Bay are definately windier than Ontario. The only lake considered to be more nototurious for foul weather Lake Superior- which was mentioned as a site for wind farms, but where would the wind power be fed to without large transmission losses?
Secondly, for those who may be skeptical of silors experiences, think about geography. The prevailing wind in our latitudes is westerly. Therefore, the ideal lake effect condition (in terms of consistenly generating wind) is to have a situation where a large body of water is west of the land, so that the daytime lake effect is additive (not cancelling out as often happens in Hamilton harbour). Also, the amount of fetch is important- neither Hamilton nor Toronto has open water to the west for weather systems to pick up energy (in contrast with Lake Huron, or a place like Kingston).
As for EMAY in BGOS, of course there will be many who say it isn't a great riding for her- but realistically, no riding is great for any Green candidate, and BGOS was the second best in the last federal election...so it can't be much worse than the other handful of Ridings the Greens have a chance in.
I heard a segment on CBC Radio a while back about people in Ontario living near wind turbines. They claimed that the turbines were emitting very low frequency sound (some of it too low to be heard) that they were associating with sleeplessness and health problems. Anyone know anything about that?
Not sure if it was the particular segmant you saw but there was one on CBC and a one or two on CBC about whats been happening to some of the people here. Well here being where I've mostly been this winter which is in the middle of a wind farm. There are turbines on three sides. The low frequency sound is only a possible explanation. Basically a few people who live in the turbine area started to experience problems with sleeping, headaches and general malise as well as some had heart palpitations I think. The wife of one of the guys who works next door has it pretty bad and had to leave her house. As soon as they moved away the symptoms got better. They thought that possibly it might have something to do with the high load electric lines that ran right by the house. The company buried the lines but last I heard that didn't seem to work. I think they're living full time in town now. There are a few more people apparently experiencing funny things but I don't have personal knowledge of what's been happening with them.
