Green Party of Ontario leadership race

Here's hoping they get some watermelons instead of eco-capitalists

I find that interesting how the provincial green parties seem to have different ideologies and positions.  I think this is due to green politics being a barely coherent ideology at best - I don't know what the hell "not right or left but forward" means, but I know I don't like it.  Here in Manitoba the greens are watermelons (green on the outside, red (commie red, not Liberal red) on the inside) and had a fairly radical leader (I worked with him on some stuff) and a platform which was significantly left of and better than the NDP in the last election on a lot of issues, although not as far left (or good) as the Communists.  From what I've heard about other green parties such as the Ontario greens, I haven't been too impressed.

Also, now that I think about it, I should have put scare quotes around "eco-capitalist" as it's pretty much an oxymoron.

Actually they are closer to fascist red than commie red genstrike, hence the "eco-capitalist" bent.

remind wrote:

Actually they are closer to fascist red than commie red genstrike, hence the "eco-capitalist" bent.

I was referring to the Manitoba Greens to contrast them to the Ontario Greens.  I don't know what kind of recent developments they've had since they got a new leader, but in the last election they were significantly left of the NDP - there was probably a wider gap between Green and NDP than NDP and PC.  If the Manitoba Greens are fascists, I don't even want to know what that makes the Manitoba NDP, or the PCs for that matter.

I think part of this might be because of the conditions.  In Ontario, you have a weak NDP which isn't in power, and therefore hasn't had the chance to really piss people on the left off since 1995 (which they did quite well).  In Manitoba, the NDP has been pissing off people on the left (especially young people and students) since 1999.  To people on the left, the NDP is a lot more attractive option when they're in opposition than when they manage to form government.  Maybe these people wind up in the Greens, and since it is such a small party, manage to have a lot of influence or pretty much take it over.  I think this is what happened in Saskatchewan as well - their Green party was founded by lefties pissed at Romanow.  I wonder what kind of correlation there is between the politics of provincial Green parties and the electoral success (and from a leftist perspective, failure to make meaningful change) of the provincial NDP.  Of course, the Greens aren't exactly my crowd, so I don't know for sure.

First, isn't fascist a bit of an exaggeration?  I'm not completely familiar with De Jong, but my impression of the "eco-capitalist" greens is that they are stupid right-wing capitalist yuppies, but fascists?  Reminds me of the Communists in the 30s referring to the NDP as "social fascist"

I don't think the Manitoba or Saskatchewan greens have been taken over by fascists, at least not yet.  In fact, I'm pretty sure the Manitoba Greens have moved left between the 2003 and 2007 elections.  They're still well above the NDP on my list of parties I want to vote for in the next provincial election (if they get a candidate in my riding).

And these lefties do have legitimate grievances with the NDP, I know I do, and most lefties I know can't stand Doer.  It's not "allegedly", and it's more serious than "being whipped up into a froth"

Genstrike, just wait until Doer's NDP finally do lose an election in Manitoba. At that point you can kiss your 60% tax rebate on post secondary tuition fees bye-bye. And your cheap car insurance will disappear.

And Man-Hydro will be neoliberaled-off to salivating private enterprise jackals waiting in the wings. Your lowest cost of living in the country will suddenly disappear, and the next conservative icehole of a premier will transform Manitoba into one large piece of private property to be divvy'd up between rich friends of the conservative party. Apparently you wont mind that the screws are put to your fellow Manitobans so long as the popular NDP government in Manitoba makes an exit. A real socialist you are.

Same to you. And stay on topic. You arent obligated to post rabid anti-NDP rhetoric in every thread. We're discussing Ontario Greens, who happen to be ... in Ontario, a province with a shitty Liberal economy, sky-high PS tuition fees, more children living anywhere below poverty than any other province, and Nanticoke still up and running and polluting everyone's air.

First, there is nothing "rabid" about my posting habits.  Although coming from you...

Second, I don't post things about the NDP in every thread.

Third, I was just discussing the differences in ideology between different Green Parties.  I wonder - is there any possibility of a left faction taking control from the yuppies, or have all the lefties been driven out of the Ontario Greens?  I think given the economic crisis and the ecological crisis, and the failure of traditional social democratic parties to offer an alternative to capitalism (and their descent into Third Way economics), there is room for a serious party espousing an ecosocialist vision to do well, as opposed to the faddish yuppie Greens that manage to grab a few percent and get nowhere every time.  If the Greens could use their media time to espouse a solid ecosocialist vision, it would probably be very good for Canada.

No accusations here, just saying that making decisions have consequences.

smalltownguy wrote:

Look for the names Mike Schreiner, former candidate in the against John Tory by election and Mark Mackenzie to show pretty soon.

http://www.gpo.ca/node/504

http://www.mikeschreiner.ca/

 

I doubt we'll see Mike's name come forward.  It wouldn't surprise me if Shane's did though.

while i'm reading here, thought i'd add this to the mix:

Frank Dejong was very big on the idea of taxing land instead of income.

Now.

During the winter i dug up an old book that had been given to my grandfather by someone at Princeton- a book by Henry George. 

I didn't read it carefully, spent too much time online, But, it did seem to say that taxing land was highly desirable in the eyes of someone who considered himself socialist.

Today the McGuinty's have impoverished rural dwellers by half-privatizing MPAC (municipal property assessment corporation) and taxing property at market-'value' rates.  there was a big resistance and we got some concessions. seniors and farmers that can't pay their bills are growing in number. 

anyway, where am i going with this?  i have no idea. need more coffee.

oh yeah, um, where will the Green Party of Ontario go now on the land tax/income tax thing?  where do these alternative candidates stand on these issues?

way back when someone put up the q. on babble; wealth taxes vs. income taxes.  wealth taxes seem more sensible, eh, if we must choose.  or actually progressive income taxes.  i imagine some kind of big picture structure that would allow farmers to stay on the land would also be a good thing too.  given current conditions, i don't think that has anything to do with higher land taxes.