Bnai Brith denounces Queers Against Israeli Apartheid

Breaking thread drift:

[url=http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Brith+exec+faces+porn+charges/164421... director of B'nai Brith in Quebec faces child-porn charges[/color][/url]

Stockholm wrote:

Why is this relevant?

Why is thread drift relevant?

That's an oxymoronic question.

Unionist wrote:

Breaking thread drift:

[url=http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Brith+exec+faces+porn+charges/164421... director of B'nai Brith in Quebec faces child-porn charges[/color][/url]

I'm not really comfortable with linking to this story under the topic thread.

There's still a lot of bigots out there who believe child molestors are gay. I'd be shocked if Unionist was of that view - but I'm trying to comprehend why this article would be posted in this thread.

If the implication is that Bnai Brith shouldn't oppose the QAIA because Bill Surkis has been charged with posession of child porn, that makes a lot of connections I don't agree with.

Now the Canadian Jewish Congress has condemned Pride Toronto's decision to allow freedom of speech in the parade.  I wonder if Bernie Farber knows the origins of Pride, after reading his comments about politics ruining the parade.

Quote:

"This parade ought not to be politicized ... we're disappointed," Bernie Farber, Canadian Jewish Congress CEO, said last night.

"It's a pretty sad story that the Pride Parade, a highlight of the summer which invites people to come out and show pride in their identity, includes heavy-duty, very intense political debate," he said.

"It's very sad that even fun has to be political," he said.

...

Instead of legal action, Farber said the congress wants gays to tell parade officials "it is not a political event."

Toronto Sun

Yes remind you would deny Farber his views while promoting yours. Very fair, very balanced.

Oh give it a break Winnifred! You cannot see the difference between a once powerful human rights  organization essensially now going against the very principles they pretend to have, not to mention that jackass Farber's new views and what remind said? Does remind have the power to shut down BB or the CJC? No. Does Fraber and the rest of the right wing CJC BB members (and their Xian cohorts) have the political power to shut down and silence peaceful political statements? Yes. Take your bullshit faux concern somewhere else.

Actually Pride started in 1971 - a decade before the bath house raids.

Stockholm wrote:

Actually Pride started in 1971 - a decade before the bath house raids.

Yes and no.  According to gay writer Rick Bébout, who just died this week:

Quote:

Toronto's Gay Pride Week 1972, featured in the centre spread of TBP Issue 6, ran from Aug 19 to 26, with art shows, panels, a march of 200 to Queen's Park -- & another Hanlan's Point picnic.

In 1973 Gay Pride Week went national, with events (some small) in seven Canadian cities. Toronto saw another Gay Pride March in Aug 1974. There were more summer demos after that, but not another big festival until Gaydays (see 1978).

After Toronto's big bath raids (see 1981), Lesbian & Gay Pride Day was resurrected, held in late June to coincide with international (mainly US) fests marking New York's 1969 Stonewall riots. And thus it's ever been, local history before 1981 often forgot.

Of course, whether it was 1972 or 1981, anyone who claims that Pride isn't political has their head up their ass.

And on a related topic:

Quote:

"It's talk that hurts us to our very soul," Farber said. "Do we talk about no English state? Or no Irish state? . . . Why is it OK to have talks about how the Jews should not have a little piece of land for their own?"

Perhaps the reason we don't "talk about no English state" is because there hasn't been one since 1707?

Farber seems to be as much of an expert on British history as he is on the history of the LGBT movement in Toronto.

Winnifred wrote:

Yes remind you would deny Farber his views while promoting yours. Very fair, very balanced.

This isn't the Fox Network, but "news for the rest of us."

We are the balance.

Jewish gays fight anti-Israel messaging at Pride Parade

http://www.cjnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17102&It...

well that is just what they have done according to the article, and frankly, who gives a rat's ass any longer?

I've just received this open letter:

Quote:

Hi Everybody,

I wanted to share with you a letter I wrote after finding out that Kulanu--a Jewish queer organization that I belonged to (although I was not an active member)--is marching in this year's pride march with Israeli flags. I wanted to make the statement public on the group's facebook page and their event page for the pride march, in order to spark dialogue with the membership, but both walls are disabled. I'll voice my perspective this way instead.

Shalom!

Shaindl

Dear Justine,

I was at Shir Libeynu's pride shabbat service this morning, and I have participated in Kulanu events in the past.

During today's congregation announcements, I was disturbed to learn that Kulanu is marching in this year's pride march with Israeli flags.

I joined Kulanu years ago when it was first started, and at that time, I inquired about how Kulanu was positioning itself regarding issues to do with Israel and Palestine. I was told that Kulanu was a "non-political" group--a notion that I do not believe in, as everything is political, whether or not you explicitly acknowledge and state your positions. However, I was willing to be part of a group of queer Jews who were not united on this issue in order to bring recognition to queerness in the Jewish community.

Now it seems that Kulanu is no longer a group for queer Jews--it is a group for queer Jews who have a specific political allegiance to the Israeli state. And it has become so without making this clear to its membership. I could have showed up to march with Kulanu based on how it is being advertised, as it does not state anywhere that it is doing so in support of the state of Israel.

While it is important for a Jewish queer group to address homophobia and anti-semitism--including in the left and in the anti-war movement--you are not doing so by responding to perceived anti-semitism in the queer community with nationalist actions. In fact, with your polarized actions, you are shutting down constructive dialogue, and you are alienating parts of the Jewish queer community who do not share the same analysis. If Kulanu is a Jewish queer zionist group, they should be explicit about it, because not all Jews are zionists. I am not proud to wave the flag of any nation that represents colonization and violence, whether that be Israel or Canada.

Furthermore, I wanted to address this issue with the Kulanu membership, either on the Kulanu pride event facebook page or on the Kulanu group facebook page, but both walls are disabled. Where is the dialogue about this supposed to happen? I am not the only person affiliated with Kulanu who would not agree with the position Kulanu is taking--I know this for a fact, as some of the members listed have showed public support for groups such as Queers Against the Israeli Apartheid.

Please be clear about what Kulanu actually stands for and make its mandate public. That way, Jews who are critical of the actions taken by the Israeli government and who are concerned about violence and racism against Palestinian people can make an informed decision about their relationship with Kulanu.

Sincerely,

Shaindl

Skinny Dipper wrote:

I think it is intersting that Bernie Farber has the superior intellect to know how to run a Pride Parade and that the Pride Parade is not political.  Perhaps, he should organize the Pride Parade next year.  Let there be only gyrating gay men in tiny swimsuits, leaping lesbians, bicycling bi's, and transit riding transvestites and transsexuals.  No politicians, please--unless they are gyrating or leaping.

There are very few politicians that I want to see gyrate or leap in tiny swimsuits.

Anyone suggesting that the Pride Parade is or should be non-political is just clueless and probably shouldn't be listened to on the subject.

Hexboallah has never used "suicide" bombers against civilian targets. Famously they were behind the suicide truck bombing against the US marine out post in Beiruit in 1983 -- a military target. Perhaps one of the reasons you are confused is because you are operating from the basis of rank stereotypes, propaganda and disinformation?

Here is the advice Rabbi Bulka's gives to gays in his book "Man, One Woman, One Lifetime": "improve on who you are, through the exercise of free will, and with the help of mental health professionals and spiritual advisors."

He did more than just sit on a board. He was an outspoken homophobe. Look at this.

And this wasn't some deep dark secret - there were loud protests against Bulka for his anti-gay views in 2006 yet that didn't stop the CJC from electing him co-president one year later. The 2006 article seems to refer to his NARTH involvement as current at the time so I think "quite a while ago" is an exaggeration Jaku.

An eternity I tell ya, an eternity!

Rabbi Bulka loves Stephen Harper and sees him as a great champion of Canada's values and of human rights. Surely that tells us something about this individual's attitude toward queer rights today, even if he has learned somewhat to watch his mouth:

Quote:

This year, we enter Pesah if not with new energy, at least with a new, as in 21st century, challenge. We have seen this develop before our eyes - the slow but steady stream of antisemitic invective, sometimes couched in an anti-zionism cloak, sometimes more blatant. [b]And it is everywhere.[/b] Antisemitism is not new, but the modern variety is a new variation on an old theme.

Thankfully, we have a government that is vigilant in fighting this, for which we are extremely grateful.

Yes, Rabbi Bulka, "it" is everywhere.

[url=http://www.cjc.ca/template.php?action=oped&Rec=290][color=green]April 2009[/color][/url]

Quote:

Isn't Rabbi Bulka an orthodox Rabbi? You really expect him to endorse homosexuality?

Double post

And where do you get off calling him a "pseudo rabbi"? Apparently, he has smicha from a yeshiva in New York as well as a doctorate in theology from University of Ottawa.

Unionist wrote:

 There is no "orthodox position" on homosexuality - you think we have a pope or something? Hence, he can take credit for his own homophobia. Or perhaps you could tell us the "orthodox position" on the Jewish state while you're at it? What a feeble understanding of Judaism your comment reflects. 

You're smarter than that. No, obviously there's no Jewish equivalent of a pope who can infallibly hand down rulings. But it doesn't mean Judaism doesn't ahve rules or that there's no "orthodox" position on all sorts of things. Do you acknowledge that there's an "orthodox position" on eating pork? Is there an "orthodox position" on lighting a fire on the sabbath?

The "orthodox" position on homosexuality is handed down in the Torah (Sefer Vayikra in this case). It's pretty clear. Which is why throughout thousands of years of Jewish history, I can think of precisely one nominally orthodox rabbi (R' Steven Greenberg) who has ever disputed it. And while I've met R' Greenber and found him very nice and intelligent, I recognize that he's hardly one of the gedolei yisrael and so would not take his views as seriously as those of, say, rav eliashiv or Rav Shteinman, universally acknowledged as giants of Torah.

All of these are also codified in Shulchan Aruch which the orthodox consider binding and which hsn't been disputed among them.

The "orthodox position" on the Jewish state is basically handed down in the gemara for masecta Kesubos (concerning the three oaths) - essentially, that a "Jewish state" created in the land of Israel before moshiach is assur (prohibited). This was the view of virtually all orthodox pre-1948 and is still held by most charedim today.

Now, I'm not orthodox myself. I'm all for gay people getting married if that's what they choose. I'm also all for eating peperoni pizza, sleeping with my wife fewer than 7 days after the cessation of her period, watching movies on friday nights, wearing clothes made of both wool and linen and a lot of other things that would go agains the "orthodox position." I just don't expect an orthodox rabbi to endorse my behaviour.

and one is either a Rabbi or not. No psuedo Pabbis in the religion. Spare me, lol