Canadian politician sues Jewish groups

SSC, your ignorant comment from across the border illustrates the danger facing the Jewish people. You wouldn't recognize a real antisemite if he showed up your kid's Bar Mitzvah.

Lesley Hughes is no antisemite. We had threads on this issue which clearly showed how the smear campaign against her worked. I know her personally. She has always been a respected friend of the Jewish community in Winnipeg. Her association with Rabble and Canadian Dimension speak volumes. She is a progressive and outspoken journalist who got lost and ended up in the Liberal party. Hopefully the cowardly capitulation of Dion to the wealthy and powerful right-wing extremists has helped her to see the true nature of that party.

Well I did a Google search on this and the only article published that I could find was this one:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/10/03/bernie-farber-the-wilful-blindness-of-lesley-hughes-and-her-beliefs.aspx

A read of this actually demonstrates that at least as far as Canadian Jewish Congress may be concerned it was pretty careful in NOT claiming Hughes was an anti-Semite: "Let’s be clear: CJC has never accused Ms. Hughes of being an antisemite. Nor is she the object of a witch hunt or the victim of thought police. She was damned by her own hand because of her unapologetic association with 9/11 Jewish conspiracy theories. If Ms. Hughes was, as she has suggested, simply “reporting” alternate theories to the generally “accepted” version of the events of September 11, she would have done well to clarify that those theories were antisemitic in nature because they represented a collective assault on the Jewish people and the essence of the community’s nature"

As Star Spangled already posted, you cannot write uncritically claiming that Jews were somehow forwarned about the WTC attack and hope not to be critiqued harshly as a result.

Edited to add: Unionist are you suggesting that Hughes' comments about WTC are OK?

Unionist wrote:

Here comes the Zionist cavalry.

Why do you insist on trying to make everything about Zionism? This has nothing to do with it. One doesn't have to be a rabid Zionist to take offence to viscious and unfounded lies being told about people.

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Here comes the Zionist cavalry.

Why do you insist on trying to make everything about Zionism? This has nothing to do with it. One doesn't have to be a rabid Zionist to take offence to viscious and unfounded lies being told about people.

You know, the Zionist cavalry that rides on a horse in the form of a special op ed piece by well known Zionist Bernie Farber.

 I don't blame you really for not answering the direct question. After all what can you say ? If you agree with Huighes....well...if you disagree well then you end up supporting mainstream Jewish leadership...what sheer hell!!

Anti-semite or not, anti-zionist or not, this woman is a whack job.  Can we all agree on that, at least?

breezescream wrote:

Anti-semite or not, anti-zionist or not, this woman is a whack job.

Speak for yourself. You appear to be very familiar with the syndrome.

[url=http://canadiandimension.com/blog/1064][color=red]From the CD blog last October:[/color][/url]

Quote:

(By Lesley Hughes) [b]Six years ago[/b], I wrote a column which examined evidence that the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan may have been motivated by the drive for oil and drug profits.

As background, I reported that the intelligence agencies of Germany, Israel and Russia all warned the CIA that the attacks of Sept. 11 were coming, a fact also reported in the London Telegraph, the Jerusalem Post, and on Fox News. I noted that the U.S. disregarded the warnings, but Israeli businesses took them seriously, and (sensibly) vacated the Twin Towers.

The Canadian Jewish Congress seems to have assumed that I am one of those who subscribe to a bizarre conspiracy theory that the world’s Jews were responsible for 9-11, a ludicrous idea I have never supported. As a result of the Congress’s assumption, I have been slandered as an odious anti-Semite, a claim accepted by the prime minister, by the leader of the opposition, and the nation’s media. I have also been labelled an extremist nutbar who has promoted, rather than investigated, the possibility that 9-11 was an inside job. As a result, the voters of Kildonan-St. Paul have no Liberal candidate, and a narrower debate before electing their MP.

One hopes journalists will be asking two questions: 1) Who benefits from this hysteria? 2) Is it still possible for journalists to do the work of journalism, which is to “challenge the official story” in an atmosphere of fear and ridicule?

In a huge irony, even Al-Qaeda debunk the nutty theory that all the Jews were told to take the day off.

Meanwhile, this doesn't even need to involve anti-semitism in order to have legs.  Anyone dirt-stupid enough to believe such a ridiculous rumour really isn't fit even to be a Liberal.  Not exactly the kind of accuracy and thorougness one might expect from a journalist, either.

Quote:

If someone relays information that is false, it doesn't make them crazy or bigoted, necessarly. In most cases it makes them mistaken, and there is a difference.

She's allegedly a journalist. Shouldn't she have done some rudimentary fact checking before making such a fantastic and inflammatory claim?

And how quickly did she retract and apologize? The next day? The next week? If it's a "mistake" then surely she owned up?

Cueball, you wrote "We have one decontextualized alledged quote where she sites a common rumour that was circulating around immediatly after 9/11..."

Only a complete moron (or Jew hater) would cite this conspiracy theory (rumour is hardly an appropriate word).

Snert wrote:

In a huge irony, even Al-Qaeda debunk the nutty theory that all the Jews were told to take the day off.

 

Characters like you count on your readers not going back and reading the original article. Which is why you have no readers.

That Isreal had foreknowledge of the attacks? It has been widely reporter numerous times that various intelligence agencies warned the US of the attack. In fact, Condeleeza Rice recieved a brief from the CIA describing precisely the kind of attack that might be made in one of her own intelligence briefings.

This report was ignored.

For all the pro-Israel pretend friends of the Jewish people upthread, the following letter appeared on October 1, 2008 in the Winnipeg Free Press letters section. I advise everyone here to read it carefully, and look to the signatures as well:

Quote:

[b]An open letter to the Canadian public:[/b]

We the undersigned, friends and colleagues of Lesley Hughes, know Lesley to be anything but anti-Semitic.

[b]We know Lesley Hughes to be a good friend and avid supporter of the Jewish community[/b], and indeed of every community in Winnipeg.

Over the years, Lesley Hughes has demonstrated the commitment of a capable and candid journalist, in pursuit of truth uncensored, through decades of service to the city and country she loves.

Her contributions to the community, through journalism and through her support of community service, have been recognized with several distinguished awards, including being named a YWCA Woman of Distinction.

Lesley Hughes is the author of We Chose Canada, profiles of 11 Manitobans, including Arnold Frieman, a prominent member of Winnipeg's Jewish community. [b]She has taught thoughtful, insightful, well-articulated classes on the Holocaust as part of the communications course at the University of Winnipeg.[/b] Her commitment to respect for the dignity of all persons has led her to support human rights movements at home and abroad. She has been recognized by the Lieutenant-Governor of Manitoba for her work on Canadians with Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD).

As a journalist, Lesley Hughes has written about many controversial topics, with the events of September 11, 2001 among them.

We encourage all members of the Canadian public to read what Lesley Hughes actually wrote regarding 9/11. Attached is a copy for your perusal.

[b]The prime minister of Canada admitted he hadn't read what Lesley wrote, but characterized her writing as saying "Jews were behind 9/11."[/b]

[b]Bernie Farber, chief executive officer of the Canadian Jewish Congress, said "Lesley Hughes crossed a line which just simply cannot be crossed under any circumstances.[/b] There is no room in Canada or anywhere for these modern-age twists on the age-old anti-Semitic calumnies with these odious and dangerous conspiracy theories."

[b]We invite both men to cite a passage in her writing which supports their charges.[/b]

There is not a single word written by Lesley to suggest that Israel supported the 9/11 attack or the terrorists in any way. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

Hughes talks about the Israeli intelligence service Mossad and two other intelligence services warning the U.S. that 9/11 was coming. They were sharing information with an ally, as is their mandate - perhaps in the hopes of adverting tragedy. The U.S. intelligence chose to ignore these warnings.

"It's now been well established that the U.S. had advance warning of a plan by Osama bin Laden to crash planes into the World Trade Centre."

The article also states that the United States used the terrorist attacks to strengthen its hold on oil in Afghanistan and Iraq. (That) these statements are now widely accepted as self-evidently true.

[b]If Lesley Hughes' comments were anti-Semitic, we would agree with public denunciation. But public denunciation of someone as anti-Semitic - when the opposite is true - weakens the charge of anti-Semitism in its true form.[/b]

Some commentators claim that Lesley Hughes should be disqualified because anyone who believes in any kind of conspiracy theory should not be considered for public office.

We remind them that Watergate was dismissed as a conspiracy theory until two honest journalists challenged the official version of the truth. Similarly, the involvement of senior aides to the premier of Manitoba in creating a new political party was at first dismissed as a conspiracy theory, but later proved by a journalist to be true.

We know that open, honest, and candid inquiry is part of what Canada is all about. Misguided accusations of racism should not be used to intimidate or silence that pursuit.

Signed by:

Don Marks
Gary Zubeck
Christine & Keynes Emeruwa
Muriel Smith
Ellen MacDonald
Bruce Hanks
Ivan Berkowitz
Linda James
Marika Panchuk
Linda Lazarowich
Ken Macdonald
S. June Menzies
Randi Gage
Ken Murdoch B.A., M.Div., M.S.W. (Retired)
Abraham (Abe) Arnold, C. M. LL. D.
Bertha Arnold
Cy Gonick
Mary Scott
Mark Golden
Geoff Hughes
Carolyn Garlich
Barrie & Phyllis Webster
Meryle Lewis
Lenore Berscheid
Kreesta Doucette
Phyllis Watson
Paula & Andrey Sigurnjak
Roz & Larry Usiskin
Pearl Eyford
Pat Powell
Stephen & Dee Gillies
Michael Welch
Bob Axworthy

Chris Webb, Canadian Dimension

Roz Usiskin, President
United Jewish People's Order

Dora Rosenbum, Vice president
United Jewish People's Order

Vienna Badiuk
The Buzz Communications Group

Marianne Cerilli
Liberal Candidate - Winnipeg North

Hon. Dr. Rey D. Pagtakhan, P.C., LL.D., (Honoris causa), M.D.

Harvey Smith, City Councilor

Shahina Siddiqui
President/Executive Director
Islamic Social Services Association Inc.-Canada

Lloyd Kornelsen, PhD Student
Education / Peace Studies, University of Manitoba

Peyton Lyon, Professor Emeritus
Political Science, Carleton University

Peter Miller, Senior Scholar
University of Winnipeg

Jesse Vorst (very Jewish)
Department of Economics
University College, University of Manitoba

Frances Russell, Journalist and author

Nykola Dubenski, Communications inter alia

Liz Findlay, CFP
Certified Financial Planner

David Pankratz, Director
Institute for Community Peace building

Jane Runner, Program Manager
Transition, Education and Resources for Females (TERF)
New Directions for Children, Youth, Adults and Families

The frenzy-mongers in this thread are guilty of the same lies as Harper, pointed to in the above letter. They are the same character assassins who spewed venom against George Galloway. Their lies are damaging to the Jewish people, precisely because they keep repeating (like Farber and Dimant and others of that species) that they are "Jews". There is nothing Jewish about them. But ignorant people will connect their lies and slanders to the Jewish people, and antisemitism will be fueled accordingly. That's why it is incumbent on progressive Jews, at all times, to condemn and expose these criminals who purport to speak in our name.

Cueball, with all due respect, I plead with you not to turn this thread into a debate over 9/11. This is about whether Lesley Hughes - or anyone - can be vilified for expressing views about whether a conspiracy was at work or not. This is about crushing of dissent in a supposedly democratic society. There are plenty of the other kinds of thread for the other debate.

I wish Lesley every success in her lawsuit, although I can't confess to much optimism. More important is that public opinion be corrected on the McCarthyite smear job that has been done against her.

Quit trying to run the board. She asked me to provide proof that Condeleeza Rice was warned prior to the 9/11 attacks. She is saying that these reports are false and part of a wild conspiracy theory designed to vilify Jewish people. These are indeed widely reported facts as found in the mainstream press. This fact has been established.

If Hughes is therefore a wild eyed conspiracy theorist, then so is the Washington Post editorial board.

Don't try and turn this into some kind of meta debate debate about debating.

Washington Post isnt good enough for you?

From the Washington Post story:  "There was no conclusive, smoking-gun intelligence, but there was such a huge volume of data that an intelligence officer's instinct strongly suggested that something was coming." 

How could Rice or anyone else act on non-specific information?  For years people knew Al Qaeda was a threat, especially after the USS Cole bombing, but what do you do with vague information?

All that aside, for a serious journalist to entertain the notion and publish a demented conspiracy theory that Jews were forewarned, is at best irresponsible and at worst, anti-semitic psychosis.

breezescream wrote:

From the Washington Post story:  "There was no conclusive, smoking-gun intelligence, but there was such a huge volume of data that an intelligence officer's instinct strongly suggested that something was coming." 

How could Rice or anyone else act on non-specific information?  For years people knew Al Qaeda was a threat, especially after the USS Cole bombing, but what do you do with vague information?

All that aside, for a serious journalist to entertain the notion and publish a demented conspiracy theory that Jews were forewarned, is at best irresponsible and at worst, anti-semitic psychosis.

 

I am not interested in the veracity of the Washington Post story or what conclusions can be drawn. If you are really interested you can go do the first hand research yourself.

I posed the following: That Hughes was asserting "facts" that were well established in the mainstream press", and that as such she was well within her rights to reprint those facts, right or wrong, based on legitimate news stories. You challenged me on the facts, and asked me for prove that Condeleeza Rice was given advance information. I have established one fact, out of several that have been proposed here.

If you want to check the rest be my guest. But rather than prove you are wrong over and over again, for an afternoon, I will do something else. You can draw your own conclusions about what Rice thought about the facts as presented to her.

Thanks.

ETA: When this goes to trial I am sure Hughes will outline "the facts" based in original copies of the relevant sources and you can review them at that time.

Unionist:  Hughes was “reporting” alternate theories to the generally “accepted” version of the events of September 11.  We can play the game of semantics, but what for?

Cueball:  No where in that Post story was the "fact" that Jews were forewarned.

Unionist, you wrote:  "Their lies are damaging to the Jewish people, precisely because they keep repeating (like Farber and Dimant and others of that species) that they are "Jews". There is nothing Jewish about them." 

I know this is off topic, but I'm interested to know what you think it means to be a Jew.  Religious belief?  Blood line?  Culture?

breezescream wrote:

Cueball:  No where in that Post story was the "fact" that Jews were forewarned.

1) And no where is there a sentence in Hughes story that "the Jews were forewarned."

2) You did not ask me to prove that "the Jews were forewarned"

3) Condeleeza Rice is not Jewish.

4) I did not say the Condeleeza Rice was Jewish

5) Condeleeza Rice does not in any way shape or form represent Jews, in whole or in part.

6) I did not say that Condeleeza Rice represents Jews in whole or in part.

7) I said that Condeleeza Rice was forewarned.

You asked for proof of the following:

breezescream wrote:

Cueball wrote:  "It has been widely reporter numerous times that various intelligence agencies warned the US of the attack. In fact, Condeleeza Rice recieved a brief from the CIA describing precisely the kind of attack that might be made in one of her own intelligence briefings."

Proof, anyone?  Anyone?

I have offered proof for exactly one fact, from a reputable source. As I said the sources for the others that I posited, are available elsewhere, and are as true as the one about Condeleeza Rice.

Now before I get embroiled any further in this dishonest, cyncial and manipulative interogation, where you shift questions, and intentionally misquote people (lie), both me an Hughes,  I am going to stop now, hoping against hope that you are the attorney handling the case for Mr. Farber.