Hatred and Ignorance of Hip-Hop

Most of today's hip hop is commercialized blather, including a number of the acts you linked too. 

Youth culture often gets co-opted by corporate greed - hip hop is in a long line up in that regards.

Hip hop used to be about something - Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five comes to mind, some early Public Enemy or even Gil Scott-Heron (if you want to stretch the definition of hip hop). However, like punk, folk-rock, funk and on and on it is now just a way to make money.

Your passion though is good, it is just you could find someone saying the same thing about genre's dating back to the Lindy.

Smokey Robinson was on Spectacle Friday night, it was an excellent show.

Rexdale_Punjabi wrote:

his 1st album power of the dollar.... when he was underground not the co-opted bullshit he put out since.

 

Good Die young

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btTQHA4kFYA

Ghetto Qu'Ran

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I34hn-vgbTc

Make Money

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ciy5x8MXe8

But honestly Fucc 50 listen to ppl from ur side of the border

Camoflauge - Ninja Swordz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr59HVsR0Hg

I just posted the lyrics to "Fuck Dat Bitch" from the Power of the Dollar album. It is undeniably misogynist. I didn't want to post it here, but I'm sick of your disrespect in discussing women. And now you are on here defending 50 cent on a progressive board??

Rexdale_Punjabi wrote:

last time I checced there 18 traccs on it Good Die young n Ghetto Quran really the only ones I bump still

edit- n Go listen to the other shit I posted like immortal tech, wc n camoflauge

Well do you really want such a misogynistic creep having influence over young people and girls internalizing all these ideas that they are just gold-digging bithces and hos who should put out whenever a guy wants? Low self-esteem in girls is a huge issue and some of these songs and videos contribute to this. It is really offensive to have it linked to here. I am trying to figure out how the hell one shields kids from this kind of stuff these days?

I think if we stacked up our individual musical interests here for comparison sake, and used the respective selections as the basis upon which we'd accordingly judge and interact with people, my guess is that we would have total anarchy.  And if that is what we're aiming for, then I'd have little choice but to respond with a George Jones anthology.

Pffft

Rexdale_Punjabi wrote:

which one's that I linked to are commercialized? hiphop was real up to the early to mid 90z. the early 90z had an explosion of artists like a Tribe called quest, Afrika Bambaata was still big it was mid 90z shit started to turn around. N even then it was starting to come bacc from lke 2000-2004 but then just stopped.

Much of hip hop - like it's whitebread cousin Heavy Metal is just an excuse to market mysogyny and hatred.  Both appeal to the poor areas they come from, but also have become a commercial ticket to make boat loads of money for a very small minority owners.

How so - I didn't single out hip hop - I pointed out that heavy metal - marketed to another demographic basically appeal to the same thing.  And heavy metal grew out of the same sort of poverty/class struggle as hip hop or rap.  Obviously though without the anti-racist issues. 

I could have listed any other musical form, but picked heavy metal since they are different, but similar.

You could list any sort of music, apart from samples without lyrics such as the elevator variety, and find instances of misogyny.  You singled out hip hop as being the problem, while tossing in Heavy Metal as it's sidekick, but without the emphasis being placed where it belongs.  An overall context would see corporate marketing as the culprit behind it all, as opposed to highlighting one genre which happens to have more mainstream mass appeal than most at present.  It's just another form of exploitation alongside all the other ways and means.  What occurs as a result is that the dominant patriarchy has it's cake and feasts on it as well, simultaneously exploiting and blaming the exploited, while managing to convince others that certain segments of society are more prone to violence and misogyny than others.

Nope. Is he louder than some hip-hop?

Slumberjack wrote:

You could list any sort of music, apart from samples without lyrics such as the elevator variety, and find instances of misogyny.  You singled out hip hop as being the problem, while tossing in Heavy Metal as it's sidekick, but without the emphasis being placed where it belongs.  An overall context would see corporate marketing as the culprit behind it all, as opposed to highlighting one genre which happens to have more mainstream mass appeal than most at present.  It's just another form of exploitation alongside all the other ways and means.  What occurs as a result is that the dominant patriarchy has it's cake and feasts on it as well, simultaneously exploiting and blaming the exploited, while managing to convince others that certain segments of society are more prone to violence and misogyny than others.

Uh - did you happen to notice that the thread was about hip hop.  Heavy metal wasn't throw in - and its popularity is massive in terms of sales too - is was used as it is far more directly mysoginist than many other forms of music.  Maybe it is just the overtness of it, but it is much stronger.  You could throw in country too for that matter.

That doesn't mean it is all mysoginist all the time in any genre - but the prevelance is much higher in some than others.

Bookish Agrarian wrote:

 Uh - did you happen to notice that the thread was about hip hop.  Heavy metal wasn't throw in - and its popularity is massive in terms of sales too - is was used as it is far more directly mysoginist than many other forms of music.  Maybe it is just the overtness of it, but it is much stronger.  You could throw in country too for that matter.  That doesn't mean it is all mysoginist all the time in any genre - but the prevelance is much higher in some than others.

Yes, though it was presciently caveated with "Hatred and Ignorance."  I believe the thing to bear in mind is the popularity of the targeted genre and how the stereotypes are fed through with a firehose for marketing purposes.  All the imagery and messaging is streamed in to envelop and reinforce the corporate model for success.  The rest of us viewing this at a distance are then persuaded that there is something inherently violent or misogynist about people who are drawn towards it, mostly as a result of the incessant mass hype and advertising that gives it more of a broader appeal than it would otherwise normally have.  We would do well to recognize that targeted groups are being ruthlessly preyed upon and victimized instead of pointing at the victims as if they themselves are the cause and origin.  By saying that the prevelance is higher in some areas than in others without analyzing a little further to see where the main thrust of the corporate effort is directed, and what messages and images they are placing in the mainstream public consciencness, all of it under the control and direction of the mass corporate media, with marginalized and/or impressionable youth mostly bearing the full brunt of it, I think is just another way that they win over us all.  We keep playing the game by agreeing and regurgitating it.  Blame it on hip hop.

Slumberjack wrote:

Bookish Agrarian wrote:

 Uh - did you happen to notice that the thread was about hip hop.  Heavy metal wasn't throw in - and its popularity is massive in terms of sales too - is was used as it is far more directly mysoginist than many other forms of music.  Maybe it is just the overtness of it, but it is much stronger.  You could throw in country too for that matter.  That doesn't mean it is all mysoginist all the time in any genre - but the prevelance is much higher in some than others.

Yes, though it was presciently caveated with "Hatred and Ignorance."  I believe the thing to bear in mind is the popularity of the targeted genre and how the stereotypes are fed through with a firehose for marketing purposes.  All the imagery and messaging is streamed in to envelop and reinforce the corporate model for success.  The rest of us viewing this at a distance are then persuaded that there is something inherently violent or misogynist about people who are drawn towards it, mostly as a result of the incessant mass hype and advertising that gives it more of a broader appeal than it would otherwise normally have.  We would do well to recognize that targeted groups are being ruthlessly preyed upon and victimized instead of pointing at the victims as if they themselves are the cause and origin.  By saying that the prevelance is higher in some areas than in others without analyzing a little further to see where the main thrust of the corporate effort is directed, and what messages and images they are placing in the mainstream public consciencness, all of it under the control and direction of the mass corporate media, with marginalized and/or impressionable youth mostly bearing the full brunt of it, I think is just another way that they win over us all.  We keep playing the game by agreeing and regurgitating it.  Blame it on hip hop.

You are putting words into my mouth that were not there.  At no time did I ever reference those who listen to any type of music. 

 However, some music genres are marketed to those listeners with overt and destructive mysoginist messages.  The early days of hip hop was not so grounded in this stuff as the market is now.  I bought my first Grand Master Flash album in the early 80s so I have a pretty long track record of following the genre- so don't presume I don't know anything about where the genre went from there.  However, it is not just urban music that is subjected to this either - as I pointed out.

The opening post makes claims about hip hop that are just not true - such as dismissing it is white supremists and racist.  There are perfectly legitimate reasons to be concerned about the impact this genre - like other genres have on people and their perceptions of others, particularly young women.  That's what I object too.

Bookish Agrarian wrote:

You are putting words into my mouth that were not there.  At no time did I ever reference those who listen to any type of music.  However, some music genres are marketed to those listeners with overt and destructive mysoginist messages.  The early days of hip hop was not so grounded in this stuff as the market is now.  I bought my first Grand Master Flash album in the early 80s so I have a pretty long track record of following the genre- so don't presume I don't know anything about where the genre went from there.  However, it is not just urban music that is subjected to this either - as I pointed out.

The opening post makes claims about hip hop that are just not true - such as dismissing it is white supremists and racist.  There are perfectly legitimate reasons to be concerned about the impact this genre - like other genres have on people and their perceptions of others, particularly young women.  That's what I object too.

If polka had the same sort of mass appeal as the rest of it, would there be any doubt that the advertising focus would shift, and we'd begin to see similarities coming from that particular form of expression, if it can be described as such?  Grand Master Flash eh...well obviously you are far better grounded with the medium than I.  Having listened to both commercialized and independent varieties, admittedly I've never been quite able to hear it in the same way that others are able to, which isn't all that surprising, how could I, or anyone for that matter who has lived far from the social reality.  I'm not sure if it's all that important that we do understand the conversation taking place, because that's what it seems to be in it's purest non-corporate from, an internalized discussion of symptoms and effects.  Musical styles flow along wavelengths that are perceptible only to individuals and groups with a distinct ear for it, some are not specifically crafted with us in mind.  Initial success within a particular genre, where it begins to appeal to listeners, attracts the industry of fakery that spans all forms of entertainment and information.  The heavy metal scene of the late 70's and early 80s, with the success of the new wave of British Heavy Metal was followed by the glam/hair metal takeover, when corporate influences replaced the anti-establishment feel with images of half naked women in cages and chains.  Similarly, with the arrival of Grunge in the early 90s, the same parasitic intrusions predictably mutated it beyond recognition by the mid-90s.

Hi Rexdale_Punjabi, I would like to respond to your comments, I hope it is okay if I bold your words above my comments. :)

I wanna start off by saying that the fact that hip-hop is the primary way today POC esp youth express ourselves.

The fact that it's dismissed outright is white supremist and racist.
The fact that the only type that's played today is the one primarily consumed by white ppl and owned by them lets call it shit hop.

Also take in the fact taht look how many oppurtunities there are for indie rocc artists in terms of radio, grants, etc.

Hiphop aint got shit and we got 1 hiphop station in the GTA n really it includes RnB as well as the mainstream shit hop.

That's white supremist and racist.

If I understand, hip hop in its truest form is political, it is music that wakes people up to the reality of the ways in which they are lied to and manipulated.

It is a given that the system is racist but even more than racist it is a system based on maintaining the status quo and if there are hip hop musicians willing to sell out then they are given the opportunity to do so and that maintains the system.  The system is based on elitism and you can be any color at all as long as you are prepared to be an elitist.

The line, "four dead in Ohio" comes to mind, a line from a a song I recall from my youth that woke me up, back when rock and roll meant something to those of us who wanted to change the world.

Even the fact that rocc being seen as a white invention and whtie ppl music is white supremist and racist because in fact it aint. Elvis copied chucc berry and various other brothas and was basically a white man singing like a brotha.

Our musical roots are more tangled than that in my opinion but yes you are correct about Elvis.

The fact that ppl try to degrade hiphop by saying how it all just degrades women, is violent etc shows the racism in that the idea is that POC and colored musicians esp all think, act, and talk a certain way. That all we can put in our music is that and we cant have any other thoughts.

Unfortunately there seems to be a few all to willing to put out music that conforms to that stereotype.

Hiphopz history well I cant find the video but ima quote something remember this it got deep roots.

"In today's society, most are under the impression that Hip Hop is a recent phenomena that began in 1973. In fact, more often then not, people over the age of 50, will say that Hip Hop is what is destroying the minds of Black youth. Are they sure that's not 'rap' doing that? Do most people even know that there is a difference between the two(rap and hip hop)? I doubt it.

No matter where we go, the one thing we never leave behind is our culture. Even in the harshest of situations, it always seems to resurface itself, but in a different form. I know most think that there is little to nothing African about Blacks in America. But on the contrary, there is something very African about them.

Hip Hop has always been here. Its just a matter of recognizing how it manifests itself.

Don't believe me?

Let's see then.......

Ceremonial dancer is today's break dancer

The Ancient drummers are today's DJs

The Priest who led all ceremonial and traditional events is the MC aka Master of Ceremonies

In KMT, we had Hieroglyphs. Today, we have graffiti.

Is this all by coincidence?

Interesting.

One of the most important aspect of Hip Hop that is often overlooked, is its linguistics. The linguistics of Hip Hop is Ebonics. Though considered to be a single language, Ebonics is actually a family of languages(sound familiar?). This family includes, but is not limited to: Creole, Patwa, and African American/Black Vernacular English. The language itself, is actually a carry over from our Ancestral tongues.

The reason why its difficult for us to pronounce certain words is because some of the syllables in those words, are non-existent in our Ancestral tongues.

The connection to our ancestors is amazing isn't? "

The past rises up to meet us.

Stop dismissing it nigga itz here to stay n it coming out full force hiphop lives in the north the excuses that there arent any "ghettos" in KKKanada or it aint good are just excuses designed to hide the very euro-centric, racist, and whit esupremist ideals behind them.

I don't dismiss it, I saw Brother Ali perform a couple of years ago, here is a line from one of his songs,

"Welcome to the United Snakes Land of the thief, home of the slave.  The grand imperial guard where the dollar is sacred and power is God."

Now Brother Ali is a very white boy, albino actually, so I don't know whether he counts in your opinion and I am not so familiar with many of the muscians you have given us links to but I will listen to them.

My feeling is that any music, any trend, any movement or activity in our society that speaks to the truth is co-opted to serve the status quo, it has been going on a long time, centuries.  LOL  Poverty pretty much ensures that some will never have the access to history that would allow them to see those connections and being middle class pretty much ensures you never want to see the connections.  So, generation after generation are easily manipulated into us and them and the war continues.

Okay, here are some lines preceding that one:

Brother Ali says, "Smoke and mirrors, stripes and stars. Stolen for the cross in the name of God.  Bloodshed genocide rape and fraud written to the pages of the law good lord.  The cold continent latch key child.  Ran away one day and started acting foul." 

I liked your version too.