Harper: ‘I don’t believe that any taxes are good taxes’

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Scott Piatkowski Scott Piatkowski's picture
Harper: ‘I don’t believe that any taxes are good taxes’

It's obvious that a politician has fallen right off the edge of the Canadian political spectrum when [url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/a-very-scary-pm-i-dont-beli...'re too right wing for Jeffrey Simpson[/url]

 

Quote:
You know, there's two schools in economics on this. One is that there are some good taxes and the other is that no taxes are good taxes. I'm in the latter category. I don't believe that any taxes are good taxes.

- Stephen Harper, July 10

This assertion, from an interview the Prime Minister gave The Globe and Mail after the G8 summit in Italy, is one of the most stunning, revealing and, frankly, ignorant statements ever made by a prime minister, let alone one who keeps purporting to be an economist, despite doing so many things that economists deplore.

Think about it: The prime minister of a country is saying, "I don't believe that any taxes are good taxes."

There is no "school," to use Stephen Harper's word, anywhere in economics that says "no taxes are good taxes." Not even Milton Friedman and the Chicago school think that. Nor do Mr. Harper's former mentors at the University of Calgary.

They, like right-wing politicians, might think taxes are too high, maybe way too high. They might think the private sector can do lots of things better than the public sector. They might believe taxes should be lower. But anyone who says "no taxes are good taxes" and "I don't believe that any taxes are good taxes" is wrong economically, and very, very scary socially and politically.

fiidel_castro

Oh god, who is electing this guy into office? No taxes are good taxes! Yikes. On behalf of all the politically responsible people in Sask., I personally apologize for all the Saskatchewan conservatives that vote based on their collective Christian-idealism, absolutist fiscal ideologies, and supposed moral high-grounds while at the same time neglecting political knowledge and societal understandings. I am from Sask. and we have elected the NDP to be our provincial government in several provincial elections but when it comes to the federal it is neo-con all the way, very sad. Shame on us and Alberta also. Sorry Canada.

One last question, where do all the NDP supporters in Sask. hide out when it is federal election time? I am always puzzled by this. Of course the neo-conservative shift has been in high gear in Sask. for the past few years but still the NDP garners thousands of votes in the provincial election. Where do those people go when it is federal election time? Weirdness indeed.

Ken Burch

Er..."fiidel_castro"...

 

Is there a reason you chose a posting name that's very similar to that of a long-standing Babble poster?

fiidel_castro

It was pure coincidence. Sorry to 'Fidel' for biting on his style. I tried to change to another name but the site would not let me, I would have taken something else had I known. Fiidel Castro (with 2 i's) is my log-in name on other sites and on Xbox live. I just happen to be personally interested in Castro and the Cuban Revolution. 

genstrike

And you know what the sad thing is?  People always assume that the left is economically illiterate

Big Daddy

Stephen Harper is basically a living, breathing stereotype.  

These Conservatives are really starting to piss me off.  They're fucked up on the economy and they have run us into debt.  And what have they done that is good.  I was at least hoping that they might pass lots of anti-crime legislation before they get turfed out of office but they're not even doing that save for raising the age of consent, which, IMO was long overdue.  The only point in having a Conservative government once and awhile is to restore the balance and crack down on criminals but they're not even doing that.

Still, to build from stereotype to another, is there any taxes that the NDP opposes.  I mean if the Conservatives had their way, taxes would be extremely low and our social safety net would be provided by way of charitable organizations.  But on the flip side, is their any sign of progress in our party since Alexa's bizarre comment on taxing rich people making over $60,000 a year?  Could the NDP at least propose a significant tax cut in some area...?

genstrike

Big Daddy wrote:

Still, to build from stereotype to another, is there any taxes that the NDP opposes.  I mean if the Conservatives had their way, taxes would be extremely low and our social safety net would be provided by way of charitable organizations.  But on the flip side, is their any sign of progress in our party since Alexa's bizarre comment on taxing rich people making over $60,000 a year?  Could the NDP at least propose a significant tax cut in some area...?

The Manitoba NDP has cut corporate taxes and taxes primarily on high income earners to the tune of $1 billion while letting the situation regarding social assistance get so bad that the Chamber of Commerce called for an increase in welfare rates (which is what it took to finally get an increase - support by business groups), if that's what you're looking for.  Unfortunately, the caricature of the NDP as a bunch of crazy left-wing socialists simply isn't true.

On taxes, I wouldn't mind the NDP propose eliminating sales tax and replace it with progressive income tax (or perhaps to some extent some sort of environmental tax)

Fidel

Unfortunately the insinuations here that suggest Manitoba is some standalone nation with federal powers of taxation and an exception to the top-down neoliberal program emanating from Ottawa are anywhere from misleading to blatantly false to say the least. NAFTA curbs provincial governments ability to expand public services and compete with larger provincial economies on things like corporate and other tax rates. Some babblers wear rose tinted glasses when it comes to Liberal and Tory parties having done their worst for this country while in power in Ottawa, which is always and never an exception to that 140 year-old rule.

Contrary to what certain babblers would have us believe, it was Canada's recent Liberal governments as well as the Tories which are the root cause for the neoliberal baloney falling down around everyone's ears in this Puerto Rico North today. Today's bad national economy has nothing to do with Gary Doer or even the NDP in Ottawa. This recession is nation-wide as it was in the 1980s and spilling over into the 90s when the NDP had to guide Ontario out of that federal policy induced economic crisis. 

And continuing with the topic of dicussion at hand, lowering taxes in a time of recession is politically conservative and tending along a USian Herbert Hoover style of ensuring Canada's economy is starved of fuel and will provide a double whammy as there are concerns about the lag time between the Harper-Liberals so-called stimulus package and whenver that kicks in some time too late to be effective. There is little difference between tax cutting Harpers and the tax-cutting Liberal Party propping them up today with 79 confidence votes in Parliament since 2006.

Frmrsldr

Scott Piatkowski wrote:

Quote:
You know, there's two schools in economics on this. One is that there are some good taxes and the other is that no taxes are good taxes. I'm in the latter category. I don't believe that any taxes are good taxes.

- Stephen Harper, July 10

This assertion, from an interview the Prime Minister gave The Globe and Mail after the G8 summit in Italy, is one of the most stunning, revealing and, frankly, ignorant statements ever made by a prime minister, let alone one who keeps purporting to be an economist, despite doing so many things that economists deplore.

Think about it: The prime minister of a country is saying, "I don't believe that any taxes are good taxes."

I think this quote was geared to his supporters. Otherwise how does he figure Canada is going to pay for cool new army toys for his precious military? How does he figure Canada is going to pay for his precious Afghan war? How does he figure Canada is going to pay the salaries for extra federal court judges, RCMP officers and federal prisons with his pet "Get Tough on Crime" stance?

Naturally, this is going to be at the expense of health care, social services, education, the environment, federal daycare programs for children, women's rights programs, housing for the homeless, etc.

Erik Redburn

What an idiot, does he even know how his salary is paid -the part that doesn't come directly from vested interests that is?  If he ever gets his wish maybe we can all just ignore all the rules and regs they keep trying to impose on us and maybe just fire the lot of them, permanently. 

Caissa

We seem to have lost the belief that we constitute a society, that we can do more together than we can do alone. This has been clear in many tax reduction initiatives, backlash against the the strikers in TO etc. Public projects used to me a sign of civic pride especially in the late 19c. early 20c. How have we lost our soul?

ennir

Read Linda McQuaig's "All You Can Eat" , if you haven't, for an excellent analysis of just that.  In brief, she proposes that the strength we had in that shared understanding of government was the recreation of "the commons" and that there has been a systematic effort to destroy our confidence in government because that works against the interests of the those who would profit fromour labour. 

This is not the first time Harper has demonstrated his idiocy and hopefully it won't be the last, with that statement he reveals how little respect he has for the Canada that was created by those who shared a sense of community and worked to enhance that community. 

Thread drift.  St.John's, Newfoundland, incredible public buildings. I love Newfoundland.

 

 

genstrike

Shit, I can't even defend the NDP without Fidel twisting my words and talking crap

remind remind's picture

Apparently corporations agree with Harper, they have started to refuse to pay their municipal tax bills, here in BC, because of the "poor economy". Not that some weren't before though either, it is a continuing trend.

This "economic meltdown" has lots of pluses for corporations actually. One would almost think it manufactured even, it has so many.

Oppo-Guy

Yet another central issue of our time where the Conservatives and Liberals are totally indistinguishable.

Ignatieff may not have said Harper's exact words, but in the last decade, there hasn't been a single tax cut the Liberals haven't liked. In fact - though the Conservatives are loathe to admit it - it's been the Liberals who have been responsible for the vast majority of the tax cuts for business and individuals since 2000.

The entire notion of "tax relief" - that rates of tax on incomes - not rates of failure in school, or heart disease, or homelessness, or crime should be the top concern of government, has been wholly endorsed by both the two major parties.

The Liberals' rightly maligned carbon tax in the last election was built on the right-wing premise that you could put new taxes on pollution if you removed progressive taxes from incomes. "We want to tax the things we don't want" Stephane Dion intoned.

In other words, Liberals - even an allegedly progressive one like Dion - joined the Conservatives in the pejorative view that taxes are punishment - something we need to be relieved of - not what we put on the table as citizens to address the problems we seek to fix.

Thankfully there's still a New Democratic Party who have been the only ones offering opposition to the tax cut / structural deficit agenda of the other two.

Ken Burch

Big Daddy wrote:

Still, to build from stereotype to another, is there any taxes that the NDP opposes.  I mean if the Conservatives had their way, taxes would be extremely low and our social safety net would be provided by way of charitable organizations.  But on the flip side, is their any sign of progress in our party since Alexa's bizarre comment on taxing rich people making over $60,000 a year?  Could the NDP at least propose a significant tax cut in some area...?

I'm pretty sure that, with the possible exception of the increase on the beer tax they supposedly backed in the last B.C. election(and did they actually back that, btw, or was it just a Campbell Liberal accusation meant to scare off the literal "Joe Six-Pack" types from voting Dipper?)the NDP opposes consumption taxes on food and other necessities.  Taxing consumption rather than income has always been a "small-c conservative" idea, and it the most regressive form of taxation imaginable.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture
sachinseth sachinseth's picture

god, sometimes it's so embarrassing to have him represent our country on a global scale.

thorin_bane

Sometimes...all the time. Could someone tell them that taces pays for all their overseas adventures. I would love for sheila fraser to have one of her witch hunts with conservatives flying to foreign lands. It seems like a week can't go by that someone from thier party  being interviewed while abroad. They of course will point to the libs blah blah blah, but could they please try a video conf. You don't always have to go for that one day trip to a vacation destination.

One could argue that their lack of investment (libs as well) in widespread braodband is partly at fault. It makes me pine for Brian Tobin when he walked out of the libs because Martin was so obsessed with tax cuts instead of the future of our nation.

Snert Snert's picture

You'll never go broke criticizing taxes.  It's as easy as complaining about rain (which we also need, but don't always love).

I tend to think of taxes as being like my food bill.  I expect to have a food bill.  I value food and want good food.  But I don't mind if my food bill is lower this year than it was last year.

remind remind's picture

Do you mind if there are healthcare, educational, social service, and EI lowerings too?

Snert Snert's picture

I would hope that if taxes go down it's due to greater efficiencies, or economies of scale, rather than by axing.  Cutting things we need is a bit like lowering your food bill by not buying any vegetables.

Erik Redburn

Snert wrote:

I would hope that if taxes go down it's due to greater efficiencies, or economies of scale, rather than by axing.  Cutting things we need is a bit like lowering your food bill by not buying any vegetables.

 

Well put, but I think neo-con/liberals have proven by now that they either can't tell the difference or they don't care to.  Or maybe they enjoy being hypocrites now, in the old Calvinistic manner, as their willingness to put us all further into debt to bail out the stock markets also shows.

fiidel_castro

Scandinavian countries have the highest taxes per capita in the world and what a coincidence they also happen to be social democratic countries that have the highest standards of living in the entire world, wow. You know things like great health care, social services, adequate housing, etc... Whereas the US has an extremely divided standard of living, some make it and millions do not, while at the same time they are the richest country in the world. Go figure Mr. Harper. Yee Haw, lets all become Americana. No new taxes! No new taxes! Oh, I just broke my leg, oh well I can afford it I my other one is still perfectly fine.