Afghan People Still Losing Since 1992 & Counting - Part VII

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Fidel
Afghan People Still Losing Since 1992 & Counting - Part VII

It's not a very positive thread title. But I think it better reflects the ongoing deteriorating situation for people having to endure this phony war.

Issues Pages: 
NDPP

Obama's War:  http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jul2009/pers-j17.shtml

"With Obama approaching the end of his sixth month in the White House, there is growing evidence that his administration is in only the first stages of what is shaping up to be a major and sustained escalation of the war in Afghanistan.."

NDPP

Afghanistan: Marines Mission Doomed to Failure

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article23090.htm

"The likelihood of American success in Afghanistan is at best dim and at worst heading inevitably toward a lose-lose situation.."

Fidel

[url=http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14316]Military Escalation: From Afghanistan To the Caspian Sea and Central Asia[/url] Largest ground combat operation since the Vietnam War

Quote:
Thirty Year Afghan War, Twenty Year World Conflict With No End In Sight

The US has been engaged in hostilities against and armed conflict in Afghanistan and neighboring Pakistan for over thirty years, starting with the training and arming of a surrogate armed force no later than 1978, prior to the arrival of the first Soviet troops in the nation in December of 1979.

Four days ago Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari recalled the incontestable fact that "The terrorists of today were the heroes of yesteryear until 9/11 occurred...." [40] Heroes not only to the Pakistani political, military and intelligence elite but to their American sponsors as well 

In a genuine sense the US is now engaged in year thirty two of its South Asian war.

The current, direct war being waged in Afghanistan and across the border in Pakistan can also be seen as the twentieth year of a war that commenced as the Cold War ended. The amassing by the US, all its major NATO allies and assorted minor clients of as many as three-quarters of a million troops for Operation Desert Shield in 1990 was the opening salvo. After the following year's Operation Desert Storm and its devastating, overwhelming assault on Iraq military forces in Kuwait and on Iraq itself, then US President George G.W. Bush announced the creation of a New World Order and the war front moved, inexorably and unremittingly, to new theaters.

Almost immediately after the carnage on the Highway of Death and in the Amiriyah shelter ended the US and its NATO allies shifted their application of military force to the Balkans (Croatia, Bosnia, Yugoslavia, Macedonia) and since then have waged, directed and assisted armed conflicts - individually, multilaterally, collectively and by proxy - in the Middle East (Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza), the Horn of Africa (Somalia, Djibouti-Eritrea), Africa west of the Horn (Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Congo, Chad, the Central African Republic, Sudan, Mali), the Caucasus (Georgia-South Ossetia/Russia), South Asia (Afghanistan, Pakistan) and as far away as the Philippines in Southeast Asia and Colombia in South America.

The current main front in this global campaign is Afghanistan, NATO's first ground war and the US's longest war since Vietnam. A war that will be eight years old this October and that is escalating daily with no end in sight...

Cueball Cueball's picture

Fidel wrote:

It's not a very positive thread title. But I think it better reflects the ongoing deteriorating situation for people having to endure this phony war.

Thanks for once again clarifying that your real ambition here is forward all kinds of appologia for the coup and internal interferences orchestrated by the Soviet Union, including the brutal and failed 1980 military invasion, and  the collapse of their hapless quasi fascist puppet regieme in 1992. No need to go into much detail about Nik Antropov's attempt to apply the same policies that temporarily succeeded in quashing national movements in Hungary and in Czechoslovakia (for the sake of immediate geopolitical as opposed to moral purposes) but in the long term only deligitemized the indiginous left, as it did in Afghanistan, leaving people with little alternative but to side with anti-socialist forces for the sake of winning their right to self-determination.

Understand this, Socialism is an ideal and an ideology; self determination a right. Now that that is clear, feel free to ontinue to embarass yourself thus all you want.

Frmrsldr

Cueball wrote:

...self determination [is] a right.

I don't agree. Nations don't have a right to exist. People do.

Slumberjack

Frmrsldr wrote:
I don't agree. Nations don't have a right to exist. People do.

Not even First Nations?  Quite the burden you're carrying around there in determining who has rights to call themselves a nation.

Unionist

This thread belongs on canadianforces.gc.ca. No one should post here.

 

Slumberjack

I don't know..even they have standards.

Frmrsldr

We're now starting to get into a confused argument of semantics.

First Nations have rights and have an inherent right to exist as peoples and cultures and to have their rights respected and upheld.

"Nation states", as opposed to peoples and cultures, do not have "inherent rights" to exist.

Otherwise, you would have agreed with Apartheid South Africa's policy of turning black African townships and reservations into "nation states", like Soweto (SOuth WEstern TOwnship) or with NATO's illegal attack/invasion of Yugoslavia and creation of Kosovo as a nation. In both cases, these "nations" were created on the basis of gross violations of human rights, rather than their protection.

Do you think turning/allowing our indigenous peoples' reservations into/to become "nation states" (literally) is the way to go?

Do you think the illegal wars and occupations by the U.S./"Coalition of the Willing"/NATO/ISAF and the move to balkanize Afghanistan and Iraq are the way to go?

Slumberjack

Frmrsldr wrote:
Do you think turning/allowing our indigenous peoples' reservations into/to become "nation states" (literally) is the way to go?

I see...now it's our burden...not just yours then.

Fidel

Cueball wrote:

Fidel wrote:

It's not a very positive thread title. But I think it better reflects the ongoing deteriorating situation for people having to endure this phony war.

Thanks for once again clarifying that your real ambition here is forward all kinds of appologia for the coup and internal interferences orchestrated by the Soviet Union, including the brutal and failed 1980 military invasion, and  the collapse of their hapless quasi fascist puppet regieme in 1992. . . . Understand this, Socialism is an ideal and an ideology; self determination a right. Now that that is clear, feel free to ontinue to embarass yourself thus all you want.

Well I've disagreed with some of your personal assessments of history before.  And in this case, so does Canadian professor John Ryan disagree with your rabid anti-communist rhetoric. Ryan lived and worked in Afghanistan when Carter and Brzezinski thought to give the Soviets their VietNam.

[url=http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/104.html]Afghanistan: A Forgotten Chapter By John Ryan, Canadian Dimension[/url]

Quote:

This is how a Marxist government came into office -- it was a totally indigenous happening -- not even the CIA blamed the U.S.S.R. for this. The government began to bring in much-needed reforms, but with restraint and prudence. Labour unions were legalized, a minimum wage was established, a progressive income tax was introduced, men and women were given equal rights, and girls were encouraged to go to school. On September 1, 1978, there was an abolition of all debts owed by farmers. A program was being developed for major land reform, and it was expected that all farm families (including landlords) would be given the equivalent of equal amounts of land.

The Yanks are still meddling in Afghanistan 32 years later. It's time the get the fuck out.

Fidel

Slumberjack wrote:

Frmrsldr wrote:
Do you think turning/allowing our indigenous peoples' reservations into/to become "nation states" (literally) is the way to go?

I see...now it's our burden...not just yours then.

I'm afraid Canada is still renowned worldwide for the abuse of native people here in the Northern Puerto Rico.

oldgoat

This thread , a: doesn't belong in Introductions, b: appears to be a confusing duplication of the other Part 7 thread, c: marched resolutely sideways into a bog from the getgo, and 4:I don't really know where it does belong, so why the hell not Introductions.

I'm sort of thinking of closing, but maybe people can figure out what they want to talk about, and come up with a title that doesn't look like it was intended to conflict and confuse with an ongoing established arc of threads.  I'll check back later.

 

Coyote

You guys sure like to go for each other's jugulars. No one just disagrees; no, there's a larger, nefarious purpose to every position someone takes on babble.

/snark

 

Fidel

My mistake, oldgoat. I was hypnagogic at the time that I ran it up the wrong flag pole. I realize that the USSA and NATO's drang nach Easten is not a popular subject around here and that we're supposed to be smoothing the rough edges on this phony war. Any deviation from Unionist's epic thread title monopoly wrt the decades-old tragedy in Afghanistan would be unAmerican and probably divisive for some regular babblers.

Fidel

I nail up links to sources which support my comments when I can. And when they cant do the same to reinforce what it is theyre claiming, then they have little recourse but to resort to schoolyard banter, personal attacks, trash talk, etc. Thread gladios basically

oldgoat

Well golly, only 84 away from 100 posts.  Guess it's time to close this one!

Topic locked