[From previous thread:]
So... whaddya think of the kidnapped American soldier? Did the Taliban lure him into a windowless van while he played with his toy soldiers in the front yard?
I'm pretty sure he's a good guy. [url=http://www.politicususa.com/en/FNC-Bergdahl]Get a load of this:[/url]
On Fox News yesterday, guest Lt. Col. Ralph Peters labeled Pfc. Bowe Bergdahl, “an apparent deserter.” He later said that the Taliban should kill Bergdahl, “If he walked away from his post and his buddies in wartime, I don’t care how hard it sounds, as far as I’m concerned, the Taliban can save us a lot of legal hassles and legal bills.”[SEE THE VIDEO HERE]
Peters said, “I wanna stress first of all that we must wait until all of the facts are in to make a final judgment, but nobody in the military that I’ve heard is defending this guy. He is an apparent deserter. Reports are indeed that he abandoned his buddies, abandoned his post and walked off…Now there’s another problem Julie. On that video he is collaborating with the enemy, under duress or not, that’s really not relevant…He’s lying about how he was captured saying that he lagged behind a patrol….So we know this private is a liar we aren’t sure if he is a deserter, but the media needs to hit the pause button and not portray this guy as a hero.”
Peters said that if he is a deserter, the Taliban should kill him, “I want to be clear. If, when the facts are in, we find out that through some convoluted chain of events, he really was captured by the Taliban, I’m with him. But, if he walked away from his post and his buddies in wartime, I don’t care how hard it sounds, as far as I’m concerned, the Taliban can save us a lot of legal hassles and legal bills.”
I love it when they talk straight.
Nice people. If there is any truth to the desertion story, then this attitude explains a lot. I'd wanna desert too.
Why does Unionist repeat this terrible lie with every thread beginning on this same subject? Is he a closet pro-warhawk? He is obssessed with the blood and gore of this phony war and yet refuses to tell the truth - that no one is winning in this phony war, and especially not ordinary Afghans taking a beating from both of the phony combatants. Deal's off, Unionist. I'll be changing your thread title to something that reflects the truth in Afghanistan, first chance I get.
Moderators advised. Why don't you just go soil some other threads, please.
It's a pact Unionist. Stop responding. If you have a complaint send it by email of PM.
sorry...
That's two unprovoked personal attacks against me in one week, Unionist. Stop obssessing over me, please. It's very creepy. Posts flagged and moderators alerted.
And I'll be posting relevant RAWA commentaries on what's happening in their own country whether you approve or not. In your ear, white man.
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8160604.stm]Afghan cities attacked by Taliban[/url]
Ah, the BBC, with their [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8160516.stm]keen taste for irony:[/url]
[emphasis added]
That makes 18 British soldiers in July alone. Time to go home, I think.
[url=http://www.greenleft.org.au/2009/801/41236]Afghanistan: 'The truth cannot be killed'[/url] Malalai Joya July 4
"Political knowledge and consciousness" is all theyve managed to salvage from this 30 year-long tragedy. That means more than just counting bodies and blaming the Soviets from a bygone era specifically from your rabid anticommunist point of view littering these threads. It's a phony war and "just a drama, the War on Terror drama"
Can anyone point to any people's democracy insurgent groups in Afghanistan? Sadly, I have neither heard nor read of any. As Malalai Joya has also stated, "The Afghan people are caught between the frying pan and the fire." The Afghan people are caught between the U.S. supported Taliban, Northern Alliance warlords (60% of MPs in the National Government come from this group), the Karzai government, and uninvited and unwanted U.S./NATO/ISAF soldiers waging a genocidal war in their country. The Karzai government, along with the U.S. and U.K. governments - is currently seeking negotiations with key Taliban figures to form the next government after the so - called Afghan "elections".
Judging from our actions, Afghanistan is all about greed and power. The plight of the Afghan people, women and children (especially girls needing access to education) aside from their propaganda value, ultimately don't factor into the equasion.
Not really my business. What is my business is what is done in my name and with my money, in the country which I am presumably responsible for. Presumably, even if there were "pro-democracy" (whatever that means) groups in Afghanistan I highly doubt we would hear from them, since anyone and anything moving and fighting NATO in Afghanistan is automatically grouped as "Taliban" (whatever that is). What I do know is that the Canadian army in Afghanistan is NOT a "pro-democracy" group, and even if it were, I also know that war is not democracy, nor does it create it. War is tyrrany.
So, faced with what appear to be two anti-democracy forces in Afghanistan the alleged "Taliban" and the CAF, I have very limited moral ground on which to base a judgement, except this one: We don't live in Afghanistan; We are not Afghan; Afghanistan is not our country. Therefore, upon this basis, I assert that those who resist the occupation, whatever their specific political beliefs, trump those of non Afghans.
It was a Liberal Government that put Canadian troops in Afghanistan, and the Harpers have picked up that ball and are carrying it.
And Canada isnt the only country with troops there. Afghanistan is occupied by troops from over 40 countries. Someone has to initiate peace talks and develop a plan for withdrawal of foreign troops at some point. We cant go on counting bodies and pretend that troop withdrawal is going to happen without some kind of diplomacy. Certain special interests involved in Afghanistan, the USA and-or their former proxies from 1996-2001, the Taliban, may not desire peace talks leading to troop withdrawal and cessation of war for whatever reasons, but perhaps they can be convinced if enough countries involved support an initiative leading to a negotitated peace and mediated by the UN as Karzai's political opposition in Kabul have already agreed is necessary.
Negotiations and bargaining in good faith is done all the time in civilized countries when competent people do their jobs. And our vicious toadies in government from start of the decade through today havent been doing their jobs. Theyve deferred any and all executive decisions on the occupation to their bosses in Warshington. Jack Layton and the NDP are true leaders while the other two Washington lap dogs await further instruction from either Uncle Sam or banks execs here in Canada who apparently instruct them as to when a federal election should happen or not. It must be difficult for Iggy and Harper with so many non-government people telling them what to do and when to do it.
Had to wade into the dusty NDP archives to find this:
Statement by NDP Leader Jack Layton on Canada's mission in Afghanistan
"New Democrats have a clear, comprehensive vision that moves Canada in the right direction - where our role in Afghanistan is through humanitarian aid, reconstruction, and a comprehensive peace process - not a George Bush-style counter-insurgency war."
Besides Dawn Black's earlier musings about taking it all on the road to Darfur, the NDP's position involves partaking in Hegemony Lite, as opposed to the nastier business of direct counter-insurgency. The building and protection of potemkin villages in support the US installed puppet regime is apparently a more appropriate task for armed soldiers in Jack Layton's view.
Unionist and Fidel, knock it off.
Learn to ignore each other. This is not a suggestion.
I'm not sure if this is hilarious or tragic:
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8164046.stm]UK soldier dies in Afghanistan[/url]
The cynical commanders who send these young people to their death churn out their meaningless phrases and praise - even before they release the name! "Courageous" - we'll tell you who it was later!
That's just it, Fidel, the point you refuse to entertain: that someone is not NATO. It is not Taliban Jack. It is none of our business. Our only obligation, our only moral duty, is to get on the next plane, bus, boat, canoe, donkey, or bicycle and get the fuck out. I really cannot fathom in what sort of fantasy world you inhabit wherein someone like Jack Layton can negotiate or bargain with the powerfully connected mafioso in Afghanistan to create a Utopia.
I can only conclude that you think the people of Afghanistan are incapable of figuring things out for themselves, and need a foreign someone to make everything great for them. I can also only conclude, from you repetative and irrelevant ranting, that the only someone you feel capable of sorting things out is Leonid Breshnev.
[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/07/22/afghan-cda-shooting.html][... soldiers murder one Afghan girl; in separate incident, they shoot and wound three Afghan police[/color][/url]
Just read the story. It is too sickening to quote how these trigger-happy murderers behave. Notwithstanding their guns, the Afghan people will surely win.
Strange how "warning" shots become fatal, isn't it?
The usual ploy of "blame the Afghans" was employed, of course.
*bolding mine
When Antonias discovers a food that only women eat, she can let us know. Does she really have any idea what she's talking about? How, exactly, does one "punish men, not women"? Scramble the NASCAR channel? Ban urinals? WTF?
Sounds like a good liberal.
Hello, men rape women get punished for being raped.
You apparently have no idea what she is talking about.
But they didn't, because they didn't have any such information.
Awwwwe... Jingles you broke the pact.
Yes, cover the kids eyes and ears. This thread is X rated for relentless supporters of Canada's two old line parties and vicious toadies of the empire.
The red print is the link it is not bolding
I couldnt agree more that it is none of our business. In a perfect world, democracy would reign supreme, and 40 some odd countries would not be occupying Afghanistan militarily. Unfortunately that is not the current reality and never has been. And I'm sure Jack Layton understands this as well.
Actual world scenario:
Whether you believe it or not, Iggy and Harper will do whatever Uncle Sam tells them to. It's what they do. It's their designated colonial administrative duty, and these kinds of menial tasks assigned to the them by Washington are their unwritten obligations. With the Tory and Liberal agenda reigning supreme in Ottawa, Canadians can expect more of their sons and daughters returned home to them in plastic bags from Afghanistan. Murder is the ultimate expression of insanity. Achieving peace is more difficult than most people know.
It doesnt matter what I think. Realistically speaking I have zero ability to stop the epic tragedy still unfolding in Afghanistan 31 years after the CIA bgan meddling in Afghanistan. [url=http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/104.html]Afghanistan: A Forgotten Chapter[/url] Warning: Not a pro-USSA point of view
We could pullout of Afghanistan, as the NDP has proposed since protesting Paul Martin's vicious toadying for switching Canada's role from that of peacekeepers to one of US-style combatants by 2006. Yanquis imperialists would still be there along with about 38 other countries' militaries. I'm not so naive as to think that peace or prosperity will visit Afghanistan soon. Ordinary people in Afghanistan are not winning after 31 years of US meddling in that country and counting.
And they still have no such information. Apparently as far as international law goes, it's too late now to press that point with Washington and NATO. Theyve since received a nod from UN to be there.
But if we are trying to convince ordinary people and voters alike as to what's gone wrong in Afghanistan and why they shouldnt support Ottawa's Liberal-Tory war coalition, then I think the soft underbelly for Ottawa's vicious toadying is probably to ask self-annointed experts and the undecideds [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/noam-chomsky-why... is Canada's military in Afghanistan?[/url] Youll likely receive a wide range of answers and wild guesses. Because if they can't explain why, and their fearless political leaders can't tell them either, then the snakes should start turning on one another at some point.
That's not what she said. She said:
So, now it's Canada's responsibility punish rapists. I see. How does she propose to do this? "Canada can do much better", she says, but doesn't bother saying what that better would be. Is she leaving it up to our US-trained Generals to figure it out? Maybe the women-friendly Harper government can get Jason Kenney working on a plan.
She sounds like Fidel: occupation if necessary, but not necessarily occupation.
She doen't like all the nasty killing and stuff, but still sees a role for Canada. Should we send in the RCMP? They can taser Dostrum. Or they can drive the Taliban to the outskirts of Kabul and make them walk back. Or they can provide explosives and agent provocateurs to goad some young guys into plotting an attack......wait a minute...
Attack Antonia eh?
Not going down that patriarchial road with you.
Canada should get the hell out of their country immediately if not sooner. We've done quite enough there already thank you very much. These 'solutions' imposed by outsiders have brought nothing but harm. Canada's role in Afghanistan is to invade, occupy and destroy and aside from a few disgusting social work photo ops, what they bring for the Afghan people - women, children and men, is bombs and bullets. If you wish to help the women and people of Afghanistan, make your part of their war go back where it came from.
Whatever the NDP says is wrong according to our non-partisan partisans.
Several thousand Taliban are on the verge of victory over the 40 nation military alliance, and NATO's surrender is imminent. No diplomacy needed just more blood and gore and solid as jello combative comments. Pass the body bags, and let's skewer Jack Layton some more, that peacemongering commie leading the effective opposition to the Harper lap poodles and those other warmongering plutocrats propping them up.
I don't quite follow how the first sentence which I quite like connects to the rest. By the time I reached Layton and "effective opposition" I was quite lost I must confess.
I'm trying to understand it myself. Just remember, this is all Jack Layton's fault. It's easier that way.
The NDP hasn't proposed anything of the sort. Except for Dawn Black's earlier musings about moving the road show on to Darfur, which doesn't make it party policy btw, what we've actually been witnessing is a shell game where the object is to uncover the word 'mission' after it's been spun around in front of our eyes. Chances are we wouldn't find the word under the shell called Khandahar, but certainly under another. Yes indeed, the current mission would have ended under an NDP government, to be replaced by another more 'constructive' mission somewhere else in Afghanistan. No official statement that I'm aware of calls for the complete withdrawal from that country. Not lost on anyone adept at how shell games operate is the realization that any mission in that country collaborates with a foreign occupying force. Collaboration under another guise remains the essence of NDP policy regarding Afghanistan.
Fidel, you are trolling.
Stay out of this thread.
I don't think he was being patriarchal or attacking Antonia. He was taking issue with some of her statements - which imply that she wants Canada (and others) intervening in Afghanistan, telling them what laws to have, how to train their police, etc, etc, etc. What Canada needs to do is get out, not change our mission to some other type of control over the Afghans.
And btw, I really don't think we are the country that can speak with any authority on how to adequately handle rapists.
When did we start putting women in jail because they were raped Ghislaine?
We don't. But read an Amnesty report about how many countries on this planet do that - or worse such as stoning them to death for it. That is for those countries to figure out. We cannot go intervene in every single country that treats women like garbage and impose our values on them. I wholeheartedly agree that we are lucky to be women in Canada. However, I do not support continued intervention in Afghanistan as a rich Western country telling them how to run their country.
What do you not get about Canada is supporting the government in Afghanistan doing this, plus implimenting other anti-women bills. And it is shameful. So yes we need to get the hell out, but we also owe Afghans much. How to do all of this is still the question, attcking someone who is at least trying to speak about is not the answer.
Y
I'm a member of the Zerbiasis fan page on Facebook. She has been courageous and outspoken on many important issues. She's not afraid of the MSM establishment. I admire her for that. This particular column of hers properly condemns the occupation. It exposes some of the lies about the alleged improvement of women's condition under the heavy hand of the invaders and their warlord puppets. If she had just left out her last couple paras where she says what Afghans "need", it would not have been a bad piece - and I agree with Jingles and Ghislaine from that perspective.
It's a reminder that even very progressive people, indeed all of us, have to be careful about telling other nations how they should be running their affairs. We should be especially careful when our own troops are occupying and murdering them. But it doesn't put Zerbisias on the other side of the fence. Her article is light years ahead of the trash coming out of a certain political party in recent months. She is just the kind of ally we need in the MSM, speaking out against the occupation - we need more like her.
remind, I absoluely get that Canada is supporting the government there and that is why I am saying we have to get out immediately - not in 2011. That is what we owe Afghanistan.
I was not attacking you, just stating my opinion that I don't support meddling in the Afghanis country any more or trying to tell them how to run out. We need to leave right away and not try and linger by imposing Western values on them. It is their country to run.
I was talking about attacking Zerbiasis
ok, well i did not see jingles or myself attacking her. I saw some people taking issue with a couple of her statements, while agreeing with her about ending the occupation. As unionist pointed out, most of her post is excellent.
When the U.N. gave the green light for the U.S.A.'s and NATO's war in Afghanistan, which was handed to the U.N. as a post de facto fait accompli, the U.N. contravened its own Charter concerning the declaration and prosecution of an (illegal) aggressive war by other (subordinate) parties.
But then the U.S.A. always gets what it wants anyway by simply ignoring the U.N. and international laws and treaties it is party to. Something about being a Superpower and not being subject to international organizations, laws and treaties like everyone else.
C'mon Maysie, our friend Fidel is not trolling. He is honing his skills in the fine art of sarcasm. No need to kick him out of this public swimming pool of ideas and debate.
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