The Iranian Election and Its Aftermath

George Victor wrote:

Let's try to state the case for the People's Mujahedin of Iran, some 3400 men, women and kids trapped in eastern Iraq, where they were driven on ascension of the Ayatollahs in Iran....

I hope that some people could simply state their position on these people. It would seem their existence and situation tends to complicate straight-line ideologies, sowing confusion and tendentiousness among their pat "lines".  Or do I have that wrong? A straightforward position isn't possible here?

Relations with Iraq under Saddam Hussein

The PMOI transferred its headquarters to Iraq in 1986, during the Iran-Iraq War. According to the US State Department, the PMOI received all of its military support and most of its financial assistance from Saddam's government until the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. The PMOI also has used front organizations to solicit contributions from expatriate Iranian communities.

The PMOI's decision to move its headquarters to Iraq in the middle of the war - which was started by an invasion by the Iraqi army and cost many tens of thousands of Iranians lives - caused the PMOI to lose most of its supporters in Iran, regardless of their views towards the Iranian government.  A report by the Foreign Affairs group of the Australian Parliament states the PMOI "is believed to have lost much of its popular support within Iran since siding with Iraq".

Human Rights Abuses

In May 2005, Human Rights Watch revealed that the PMOI were running prison camps within Iraq and were committing severe human rights violations.  The report described the PMOI as a cult held under the tight control of Maryam Rajavi. The report prompted a response by the PMOI and a few friendly MEPs (European MPs), who published a counter-report in September 2005. They noted that HRW had "relied only on 12 hours interviews with 12 suspicious individuals", and stated that "a delegation of MEPs visited Camp Ashraf in Iraq" and "conducted impromptu inspections of the sites of alleged abuses." Alejo Vidal-Quadras Roca (PP), one of the Vice-Presidents of the European Parliament, alleged that Iran's Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS) was the source of the evidence against the PMOI.

Statement on Responses to Human Rights Watch Report

Prompted by the FOFI document, Human Rights Watch re-interviewed all 12 of the original witnesses, conducting private and personal interviews lasting several hours with each of them in Germany and the Netherlands, where the witnesses now live. All of the witnesses restated their claims about the PMOI camps from the 1991-2003 period, saying PMOI officials subjected them to various forms of physical and psychological abuses once they made known their wishes to leave the organization.

It isn't that complicated after all.  Its the nature of the business they've been involved with for some time.  Knowing some of them personally, I hope a third safe country can be organized that will accommodate them on humanitarian grounds.  The alternative is frightening.

Slumberjack wrote:

Cueball wrote:

  Not at all, our boys are out there everyday making it safe for consumerism, while our corporations rake in the profits, and provide enough of us with rewards that we can afford not to think about it. But it is not so in Iran. In Iran does not have the wealth, or the power to aquire that wealth, and as such conflict in Iran is sharper because people have a lot less to lose.

From what I can surmise, Iran is not a country bereft of material possessions and wealth, although class disparity certainly exists, as it does here.  As a highly educated nation, I would chalk it up to being better informed on current events through a variety of widely accessible domestic sources, a state of awareness which we can only imagine with chagrin taking root here.

True enough, but it is vulnerable to boycott and sanctions since a modern economy must be integrated with the rest of the world. Hence there are such striking anomalies, such as fairly frequent power outages in Tehran, hence the nuclear power technology. Its not the worst place on earth I think, economically speaking, but somewhere in the middle of the pack.

Slumberjack wrote:

Cueball wrote:

And that is the whole issue with the ideological standpoint you are teaming up with when you start talking Fatah. The who premise is based on "exceptionalism" -- There is something particularly exceptional and sinister going on right now among Muslim people.

I wouldn't necessarily come down as hard on George.  I'm sure that after he's figured out the intricacies of the quote function, there'll be room for moving on towards other enigmas.

The quote function, Jack, does not necessarily move discussion forward, but can simply create a back and forth situation of debate and animosity as egos go on the defensive.  Look at the first half of this thread to understand what I mean.

Cue:

 " Not at all, our boys are out there everyday making it safe for consumerism, while our corporations rake in the profits, and provide enough of us with rewards that we can afford not to think about it. But it is not so in Iran. In Iran does not have the wealth, or the power to aquire that wealth, and as such conflict in Iran is sharper because people have a lot less to lose."

Perhaps they have more "freedoms" than some of the states near them, and do have a LOT to lose in that regard?

And, of course, we should be pointing out to those around us that those corporate profits are going to allow many, around us, to sip Cuba Libres on some Caribbean beach, someday. Or even keep Granny Grinch in food.
We certainly do have to think about it, Cue. But in its totality.

Long thread.