If McCain and Palin were running the White House today ...

That, TP, was the best summary of the failure of progressive politics and description of the political battlefield that I have seen in some time.

And yet, when progressives DO push supposedly progressive politicians like Obama (or, say, provincial NDP governments) to live up to the reasons we voted for them, we're dismissed as far-left fringe types who can never be satisfied.

No Michelle, it isn't that.  It's about facing up to the reality, and the futility of pushing.

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I bet if only the U.S. had elected Ralph Nader, he'd have ALL the problems fixed by now.

No, he would have been awakened at 03:00 by the 82nd Airborne, forced at gunpoint to a waiting aircraft to be flown to exile in Diego Garcia. And Barack Obama would be installed as the "moderate" president.

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"As I've [url=http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/William_Blum.html]written[/url] elsewhere: If I were the president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the United States in a few days. Permanently. I would first apologize -- very publicly and very sincerely -- to all the widows and orphans, the impoverished and the tortured, and all the many millions of other victims of American imperialism. Then I would announce that America's global military interventions have come to an end. I would then inform Israel that it is no longer the 51st state of the union but -- oddly enough -- a foreign country. Then I would reduce the military budget by at least 90 percent and use the savings to pay reparations to the victims and repair the damage from the many American bombings, invasions and sanctions. There would be enough money. One year of our military budget is equal to more than $20,000 per hour for every hour since Jesus Christ was born. That's one year. That's what I'd do on my first three days in the White House.

On the fourth day, I'd probably be assassinated.

So Scott. Your bit of graphic strip has unleashed a torrent of affirmation - the guy is a sellout.

 Or , he is not....really.

But you ARE going to Halifax, are you not? I'll bet you have some sincere words for Obama's handlers, about how  a New democrat would handle his Congress and the progressive masses there. And given that he does not have a "left" chiding him from the sidelines...

"long as we know how to get elected ourselves, eh?

Your strength in school was more on the lit./language side, eh u.

Unionist wrote:

I can't take credit for this thread idea, but I think it might be valuable. So let me kick it off:

[b][i]If McCain and Palin were running the White House today...[/i][/b]

1. Guantanamo might still be open.

2. U.S. troops might still be in Iraq.

3. U.S. troops might still be in Afghanistan.

4. There might still be no single-payer public health care, certainly no bill before Congress even proposing it.

5. Racism and racial profiling would still be a daily way of life in the U.S., with the government at best making jokes and excuses about it.

6. The U.S. would still be slavishly kissing the backside of Israel, which would probably even have a Likud government by now.

7. The U.S. would have addressed the economic crisis by handing out hundreds of billions of dollars to the banks and corporations, while ordinary folks still lose their jobs and homes and try to make ends meet.

8. Same-sex marriage and queers openly joining the armed forces would still be a thing of the future.

9. The death penalty would still be on the books.

10. There would still be no public funding of abortion.

11. Cabinet secretaries would still be pointing to Canada as a source of terrorism and advocating that all Americans be vigilant and denounce each other at the slightest sign of unAmerikan activity.

Ok, your turn.

 

1. True but it doenst really make a difference if the same laws are still in affect only a PR ploy

2. They Still are

3. They Still Are

4. It still aint here is it and it's gonna be very different from what you would expect it to be

5. LOL really? It ended? I never got the letter still

6. It Still is

7. It did and continues to do

8. It still is a thing of the future

9. That aint a federal issue

10. That Aint a federal issue

11, Idk about that one lol

Obama aint no different Wolf In sheep's clothing lol

He shouldnt have taken his words bacc for the gates thing

Scott:

"Those who thought that they would not be disappointed by Obama were seriously fooling themselves. His election did nothing to change the political realities in the US and those tend to make it hard to achieve any genuine progress. The ideal is to have a President who actually tries.

The election of an African-American (father born in Kenya) "did nothing to change the political realities in the US..."?

Seems to me that his failures, at this point, have EXPOSED the political realities in the U.S....and the level of political consciousness of many hereabouts.

NorthReport wrote:

So that is a fundamental difference between the Obama administration and what we would have got had McCain & Palin been elected.

[IMG]http://i6.tinypic.com/2z3q7f4.gif[/IMG]

Apparently those 2 rescued journalists work in some way for Al Gore. Clinton never misses an opportunity to hang out with beautiful women. Do you think he would have gone to N Korea to rescue a couple of guys. Nah!

They were innocent journalists like those hikers were just innocent backpackers in the mountains of Iran.

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 Obama's troubles have shown the difficulties of getting any good legislation passed in the doomed US empire.  

[url=http://www.antiwar.com/bandow/?articleid=12975]The Cult of the Presidency[/url]

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"The essential point is that whatever the partisan differences between the two major parties – and the discourse has grown increasingly acrid – there is little disagreement over treating the president as national pastor, counselor, philanthropist, economic manager, symbol, guardian angel, psychoanalyst, investor, global leader, popular voice, and righter-of-all-wrongs. Writes Healy: "many of the same people who condemn the growing concentration of power in the executive branch also embrace a virtually limitless notion of presidential responsibility.

From the last two paragraphs of the link story:

"Still, the diplomatic minuet was a success, more so if Obama indeed cracked open the door to resume dialogue with North Korea, whose nuclear program stands to destabilize Asia and compromise Obama's promise to work toward a world free of nuclear weapons.

Just don't hold your breath."

For many, NR, this will clearly be another failure on Obama's part. Hell, I'll bet Sara could have brought old Kim around in a heartbeat - North Korea being only a tiddly bit farther over the horizon than Siberia.

But I'll bet Gore's two journalists have a better understanding of the kind of world the American majority vote created and would have maintained in perpetuity, if their greed and ignorance had not scuttled the ship of state.

The operative word for this thread is the first one in the heading, "If"

And no posters were up to completely describing the sorry-ass situation that would exist if the senator and the former governor had made it.  The sensitive mind boggles at the prospect.  Just as it must at the gee whiz expectations of supposedly mature political minds on the subject of do-nothin' Obama. Something to do with the higher expectations of a command-economy, authoritarian crowd , I expect.

George Victor wrote:

And no posters were up to completely describing the sorry-ass situation that would exist if the senator and the former governor had made it.  The sensitive mind boggles at the prospect.  Just as it must at the gee whiz expectations of supposedly mature political minds on the subject of do-nothin' Obama.

Perplexing aren't they, the impatient ones with their relentless expectations and doubtful imaginations running amok, scratching their heads in unfathomable bewilderment as they gaze upon the astonishing emptiness.

Obama inherited a war, economic turmoil, and a full court press by the right-wing wackos like David Frum, etc.

So far, Sotomayor in the Supreme Court, a door opened with North Korea, an attempt to take on the HMOs of health care, speaking out against racism. Not too shabby for a guy born in Kenya.

Obamas No 1 priority is to get a USA birth certificate.

Maybe Obama does not have the Congressional allies needed to make significant change.  It was different for Bush, he had people like Hillary to vote for the war in Irag to hunt down those WMD.

Some would suggest there is no difference who is in the White House. I beg to differ.
Obama-Allied Unions Threatened With Gun Violence For Town Hall Participation

August 7, 2009

One of the country's largest unions has been hit by a wave of hostile calls and even death threats from people upset with its involvement in town-hall health care debates.

The Service Employers International Union was, as one aide put it, "deluged" with calls on Friday after several conservative media outlets accused the organization of trying to assault demonstrators who had showed up to protest Obama's health care agenda. Making it even scarier for union employees, the address of the union's St. Louis headquarters was mentioned on air by conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-news/reporting/sam-stein

The answer is to mobilize and to build a movement in the space that exists.  The answer is to be active.  Saying "It wouldn't have mattered if McCain had won" serves no purpose at all.

And for those who find the current conditions too limiting, the answer is to work for electoral reform and to create proportional representation in as many U.S. electoral areas as possible.  That's what Ralph should be doing, instead of what he and his followers are doing which is...nothing whatsoever.

This  thread is an absurdity

remind wrote:

 

You are assuming some of the naysayers of Obama here really want change.

Most of them do.  And there's good reason to be frustrated.  I'm just pointing out that nothing would've been gained by having the election result be(as a lot of them would have preferred) McCain 46%, Obama 40%, Nader 14%.   Why would anyone think that that result would put us in any better situation for creating change?

It would mean that abortion would be totally and permanently banned in the U.S., for one thing, which would be something the feminist movement could never recover from.  And it would mean that unions would have no chance of gaining members.  And it would mean that there would be no chance at all of ending the Iraq War(instead of us having at least the knowledge that it was going to stop next year, which isn't soon enough, but is at least something).

There would be no possibility of change or of building a left movement.  We now know the right can never be stopped from doing anything when it is in power.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

If GW had been allowed a third term, he'd have been elected in a landslide. 

If that had happened, at least there would have been a possibility of an end to the most egregious abuses of the..well..Bush administration. With Obomber, forget it.

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There would be no possibility of change or of building a left movement.  We now know the right can never be stopped from doing anything when it is in power.

But, Ken, the right [i]is in power[/i]. You know that, right?

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The answer is to mobilize and to build a movement in the space that exists.

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"We owe Ralph Nader,Cynthia_McKinney, and the Green Party an apology. They were right. [b]If a few million of us had had the temerity to stand behind our ideals rather than our illusions and the empty slogans peddled by the Obama campaign, we would have a platform[/b]. We forgot that social reform never comes from accommodating the power structure but from [url=http://informationclearinghouse.info/article23234.htm]frightening it.[/url]

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It would mean that abortion would be totally and permanently banned in the U.S., for one thing,

Didn't we already address this nonsense? I'm sure we heard the same thing when Bush was elected. Two wars, torture, Katrina, signing statements, etc, yet curiously, women can still abort. Maybe GW was just so darn busy he just plum forgot.

How totally juvenile.

Voting for Nader or McKinney wouldn't have frigtened the power structure.  The power structure is never frightened by ANYTHING that results in a Republican president being elected.  The power structure would just have said "we won, that's all that matters".

And NOBODY on the left would have woke up happy after an election where the result was McCain 46%, Obama 40%, Nader 14%.  No one would have seen any hope for the future for that at all.  No short-term right wing victories ever lead to long-term progressive gains.

Saying "everybody on the U.S. left should've voted for Nader or McKinney" is now a useless observation.  What is important is to work  in the current conditions, which are much more favorable to activism than a McCain presidency(which would have marked the end of politics in the U.S.)would have provided.

President Obama has SAID he wants people to be active, to mobilize, to try and shape the debate from below.  Why not take that as a window of opportunity, rather than wasting time on pointless griping about how the election actually came out.

And if Ralph had really just wanted to boost the third-party vote, he could have easily done that by working within a "safe states" strategy.  He didn't actually have to try to make it harder to keep Sarah Palin a feeble heartbeat away from the presidency by campaigning in battleground states.