What difference does it make to the Ontario Greens that they are leaderless right now. Its not as if ANYONE knew wh their leader was in the first place. I challenge anhyone to find me someone who can say that the "leadership" of Frank DeJong (who??) played in any role at all in a decision to vote for the Ontario Greens in the last election
ST Paul's by-election part 4
Fri, 2009-09-18 13:11
#102
Fri, 2009-09-18 13:21
#103
1. As has been said, I think that the HST will be more of an issue in less affluent ridings and especially once it actually gets imposed next summer. St. Paul's was probably not a good riding in which to make it a central issue since its the second richest riding in Ontario. The HST is a regressive tax, but if you're rich then its regressive in your favour - so what's not to like!
Stockholm - the HST is progressive, not regressive. When the new Ontario Sales Tax Credits kick in, $260 per person per year in the household, lower income families gain income through the HST. Middle to upper income families are the ones who lose. The HST should be counted as an anti-poverty measure!
I know this is off topic, but I can't let this complete untruthfulness go by.
The HST is a very regressive tax shift. It will shift the burden of taxation off of the largest and most successful corporations onto small and medium sized businesses and moderate to low income Ontarians.
HST credits are a one time factor. Used to soften the blow for the election in 2011- after that they will disappear. In the mean time Ontarians of modest means will be paying more for heating, hydro, insurance, and many other necesities in a modern world. This is not about taxing luxuries we could just skip if we felt like it. And don't get me started on the hugely negative impact the HST is going to have on the farm and rural communites.
It is complete balderdash to suggest the HST is progressive, fair or worth supporting.
On that note a tip of the hat to Julien and all those who worked on his campaign.
Fri, 2009-09-18 13:23
#104
I got the sense there was a "disconnect" between the local campaign and the party brass. Horwath definitely wanted to make it about the HST. When Heller spoke at the nomination meeting he barely mentioned it at all - and the focus of his community work has to do with education, transit, etc. LTJ makes the point about Heller being a man of the community, etc. which could work to his advangtage, but it was basically a cookie cutter campaign.
Fri, 2009-09-18 13:30
#105
In the end I'm sure the byelection was a good test run and learning experience for the NDP in terms of what worked and what didn't. The media narrative was that this was a Liberal-Tory fight - so we had little to lose.
For the Ontario PCs it was a fiasco. Why did they even bother getting Levy to run when they apperently barely lifted a finger for her. They would almost have been better off running a no-name candidate.
Fri, 2009-09-18 14:11
#106
Greens, internally, are very leader-centred. Frank's absence resulted in there being little effort to move volunteers from other ridings to help. Had he been around, more people from other districts would have shown up, most importantly, some of the tiny handful of Greens who know how to pull the vote on e-day.What difference does it make to the Ontario Greens that they are leaderless right now. Its not as if ANYONE knew wh their leader was in the first place. I challenge anhyone to find me someone who can say that the "leadership" of Frank DeJong (who??) played in any role at all in a decision to vote for the Ontario Greens in the last election
I agree with you that Frank's public presence added nothing to party fortunes.
Fri, 2009-09-18 14:25
#107
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
The sad thing is that provincial politics is what matters to Julian Heller, and St. Paul's could have no better representative. Eric Hoskins, on the other hand, ran federally as his first choice; and will move to the federal arena first chance he gets. All of Hoskin's life he has concerned himself with issues that are only addressed at the national level. He ran provincially because he was asked by the party, and he was asked because he is 'star candidate' material and he fit the 'progressive' image of former Liberals successful in the area (ie Carolyn Bennett).
He's now paid his dues for the party, and earned a favour. St. Paul's will see his back, likely sooner than later. I'll bet on it.
Fri, 2009-09-18 14:33
#108
I knew this would be the result.
For St. Paul's to go Tory the Tories have to be at over 50% in Ontario, which will never happen.
This is a Liberal Bastion. No question about it.
Fri, 2009-09-18 14:59
#109
I don't think that its a surprise to anyone that the Tories lost - but it IS a surprise that they weren't able to narrow the gap one iota.
Fri, 2009-09-18 17:12
#110
And I think that lost in the Bruce has a good point about where we put our resources. Think about what LIB (really got change that handle because the short form is well ... says it all), but I digress, in Huron-Bruce with no resources, the NDP pulls off 15% of the vote. Think about what could be if resources were actually put in there.Hold fundraisers? Find people with the desire to donate to the party. The resources are in the riding. Its not a poor region.
Fri, 2009-09-18 17:17
#111
Stockholm - the HST is progressive, not regressive. When the new Ontario Sales Tax Credits kick in, $260 per person per year in the household, lower income families gain income through the HST. Middle to upper income families are the ones who lose. The HST should be counted as an anti-poverty measure!Bollocks
Fri, 2009-09-18 17:18
#112
I don't think that its a surprise to anyone that the Tories lost - but it IS a surprise that they weren't able to narrow the gap one iota.
In hindsight Levy may have been a bit too down-market for the good burghers of St. Pauls. Maybe if she wrote a column for the Globe and Mail instead of the Sun.
Fri, 2009-09-18 19:34
#113
Why don't we continue discussion of the anti-HST campaign here?:
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/ndp-afraid-t-word-taxation
Fri, 2009-09-18 19:34
#114
Before this is closed, can anyone give me an idea of what voter turn out in by elections is, historically?
Seems increadibly low to me, but I'm comparing that to general election voter turn outs.
Maybe this low voter turn out is in step with the trend.
I went searching for data, but I couldn't really find anything with my skills.
Sat, 2009-09-19 00:51
#115
This is a crushing victory for the McGuinity Liberals - to win by almost 20 points despite all of the controversy his government has faced lately is quite impressive. It didn't turn out to be close at all.
Mon, 2009-09-21 14:24
#116
HST credits are a one time factor. Used to soften the blow for the election in 2011- after that they will disappear. In the mean time Ontarians of modest means will be paying more for heating, hydro, insurance, and many other necesities in a modern world. This is not about taxing luxuries we could just skip if we felt like it. And don't get me started on the hugely negative impact the HST is going to have on the farm and rural communites
That's not true. There is a Transition Credit next year and the year after, but the other credits are permanent and scheduled to increase with inflation. The net impact of them will more than offset the tax for low-income families.
Tue, 2009-09-22 13:47
#117
HOGWASH
Tue, 2009-09-22 22:27
#118
Nice to see you dealing with the issue in such an intelligent manner.
Wed, 2009-09-23 03:32
#119
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
Did you really expect him to waste more time on Liberal/Conservative propaganda?
Yes, there will be transition credits for two years. Yes, there are some low-income credits.
But they will in no way make up for the tax shift, particularly when combined with the overall loss of income to the government. Anyone who tries to justify this as being modeled after the scandinavian social democracies does not begin to understand the difference with our majority foreign-owned situation.
Thu, 2009-09-24 12:20
#120
Well, so much for democracy. Exactly how much money could we save by scrapping elections?
Ontario Can't Drop New Tax
http://thestar.com/news/ontario/article/700199
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