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"wife camp"
Tue, 2009-09-22 18:25
#1
"wife camp"
Tue, 2009-09-22 18:35
#2
[url]http://ca.lifestyle.yahoo.com/family-relationships/articles/archive/roge...
Actually, the only reference to "wife camp" is by the headline writer.
Inspired by this encounter, Song is starting a new summer program for girls. The goal of Make-over Camp is to instill poise, grace and confidence in girls between the ages of 10 and 14. For two weeks, they will learn to improve their posture, voice, table manners, conversation skills, wardrobe choices, makeup application, hostessing skills and music appreciation. "We see a lot of young ladies who can benefit from a makeover program," said Angela Chan, director of Lambda and co-creator of the camp. "They need to develop their presence."
Sam Blyth, director of the co-ed Blyth Academy in Thornhill, Ont., shudders at the thought of a stand-alone class for poise and presence: "There are all kinds of things,outdoor things, kids that age could be doing in the summer. Let them participate, don't just modulate their behaviour."
IMO, kids could do with a whole lotta behaviour modulating. Not only do I think schools like this are a good idea, I think that there should be an equivalent [i]boys[/i] program. You know, to teach kids not to be such assholes. Take off your goddamn hat at the table, ffs. How hard is that?
I don't see what used to be called "charm schools" as an anti-feminist thing. Anyone who has spent time on a bus full of teenagers can tell you that their behaviour is akin to what you'd expect from a kindergartener instead of a young adult.
I used to think it was simply a case of "back in my day", but there is a definite trend where people, not just teens, are regressing in their social behaviour.
Annnnnnddddd...Go!
Tue, 2009-09-22 18:43
#3
Jingles' Belles, out for a troll
Tue, 2009-09-22 18:47
#4
Fuck you, martin.
Tue, 2009-09-22 18:48
#5
remind
And here I was called the opposite of progressive because I think people can or not sing, or have sung, or not sung, O Canada, by their own majority choice.
How little store we on the left put in freedom of conscience these days.
Tue, 2009-09-22 19:15
#6
remind
And jingles good of you to note what YOU don't think of as anti-feminist.
As I feminist I am always looking to men to indicate my way for me.
Tue, 2009-09-22 23:50
#7
You and martin should take your Star Chamber act on the road.
Instead of attacking me because I'm male, how 'bout telling me, educating my Neanderthal brain, about what is anti-feminist about teaching kids manners and social skills? Is that so hard? Or is it easier just to dismiss everything outright because I'm clearly a tool of the patriarchy?
Wed, 2009-09-23 00:01
#8
I had no idea of your gender. (How could I have guessed, given your preoccupation with charm schools?)
Wed, 2009-09-23 00:04
#9
RevolutionPlease
Jingles, if you can tell me what taking your hat off at a table has to do with manners in this day and age, I'd love to know.
AAnnnnnnnnnnnnnddd Go! 
Wed, 2009-09-23 00:07
#10
Easier to barf in.
Wed, 2009-09-23 00:10
#11
RevolutionPlease
lol, Martin.
Wed, 2009-09-23 00:42
#12
bagkitty
Jingles... when was the first recorded instance of someone writing about the "younger generation" (teenagers) acting badly? I know there is a classical Roman example, but I think writing systems were around before then, so there is probably an earlier example.
Personally, my gag reflex kicked in when I saw the reference to wardrobe choices and makeup application -- yes by all means, lets add another ounce of pressure to that which girls are already subject to and reinforce the message that their worth is judged in terms of their ability to turn themselves into pretty looking commodities. Lets teach them to wear shoes that deform their feet and make it impossible to follow that first dictum of self-defence (RUN AWAY), but give their calves such a wonderful line as they stand there at social functions. Lets really convince them that fashion is a cruel goddess they must worship at the altar off and spend a disproportionate amount of there future income on so they can respond to her whims. Lets encourage them to learn that a small plastic container holding about 50 cents worth of materials (animal byproducts?) is worth 20 or 30 dollars so they can proudly demonstrate they are up to date on the latest variant of pink or beige when they ritually hide their faces behind it.
Remember, young women need that extra bit of bringing up... for their appointed role is complex, they are both consumer and commodity.
Wed, 2009-09-23 01:11
#13
I know it is a cliche to say that every generation thinks the next is worse, but take a look or listen to recordings of kids earlier in the 20th century and compare them to kids now. Then, they were articulate, knowledgeable, civil, and respectful (for the most part). Now, listen to kids anywhere and they are illiterate, ignorant, out-of-control, self-absorbed, rude, and barely coherent. We have a generation (or two, or three, mine included) of perfect assholes.
Jingles, if you can tell me what taking your hat off at a table has to do with manners in this day and age, I'd love to know.
Taking off one's hat is just a sign of respect, not just at a table but when entering a building, for others around you. It's a simple gesture of civility lost to culture that thinks ballcaps with "Show me your Tits" written across it are clever free expression.
This is bigger than hats, or proper makeup, or posture. This is about a culture that has elevated the behaviour of a two-year old into a norm. The ascendency of Asshole Culture, where everyone's sense of entitlement comes first, and "FTW" is how we interact with our neighbours.
Wed, 2009-09-23 02:27
#14
stellersjay
Good God, man, do you really need this spelled out?
“…posture, voice, table manners, conversation skills, makeup application…”
What's next? Needlework, because we all know idle hands do the devil's work, at least when they're female?
Wed, 2009-09-23 18:12
#15
Polly B
IThen, they were articulate, knowledgeable, civil, and respectful (for the most part). Now, listen to kids anywhere and they are illiterate, ignorant, out-of-control, self-absorbed, rude, and barely coherent. We have a generation (or two, or three, mine included) of perfect assholes.
Right this minute, I have a twelve year old, a fourteen year old, a sixteen year old and a seventeen year old making sandwhiches in my kitchen. They are really nice kids, their manners are good (at least as far as I know) they work and do sports and go to school. I like them!
I think they would be pissed at your characterization of them.
Maybe those articulate civil god fearing (okay I stuck that in) kids were just frightened of Dad and his big ass belt.
Wed, 2009-09-23 18:31
#16
remind
Jingles you are talking about teaching social skills that are based upon class, and sexist perceptions.
Wed, 2009-09-23 18:36
#17
I'll respond when there is a school that teaches young men to play football, eat like a man, walk like a man should, and do as a man would. Just what are those things a man should do to prove he is a man? No idea, but apparently Jingles thinks taking women and girls back to the early 17th century is just fine and dandy. Okay then Jingles.
Let me know what you would teach "men" to do as a man should. I'm waiting.
/Threaddrift - remind, regarding Oh Canada, Our home on Native Land? Yeah. No, I don't think so. Not going to have that forced down kid's throats. /end Theaddrift.
Wed, 2009-09-23 18:57
#18
remind
Fair enough stargazer, as I don't want, hypocrisy and self loathing shoved down kids, or my throa, or a one world order.
Wed, 2009-09-23 18:59
#19
remind
so now i am rabble rouser 133t?
Wed, 2009-09-23 19:17
#20
stellersjay
remind, I think you've been promoted. l33t is hacker-speak for Elite.
Wed, 2009-09-23 22:12
#21
Timebandit
Jingles, I agree with you about manners. There are a lot of bad manners out there, and it's not just the kids. But I don't think this is the way to teach girls to have better manners.
I have two daughters. They are not "little ladies", they are wild girls and I wouldn't change that for anything. They're confident, they try new things, they're outgoing and they're bright. Sometimes they wear clothes that don't match and they don't know anything about makeup, but they've got good table manners and they rarely forget "please" and "thank you". They're good conversationalists because they're curious and interested in other people.
There are just so many better ways for girls to acquire the skills these Makeover Camp people are touting. How about kung fu to teach respect? How about music lessons to teach music appreciation - and on a deeper level! (In addition to poise and presence through performance.) How about teaching them to be good conversationalists by talking with them instead of at them? Could we just teach girls to have "presence" by valuing them for who they are?
I could be wrong, but I think my wild girls got more self-confidence from their all-girl engineering camp this summer.
Wed, 2009-09-23 23:54
#22
Jingles, if you can tell me what taking your hat off at a table has to do with manners in this day and age, I'd love to know.
...and here's Exhibit "A" for Jingles' argument.
I heard some 20-something louts at the rink today, carrying on an expletive-filled conversation amid the hockey moms and their kids (and me) a couple of hours ago.
Sending them to a camp of some sort would have been a good idea.
Thu, 2009-09-24 00:23
#23
So to summarize Jingles' arguement... get off my lawn! :P
Thu, 2009-09-24 01:51
#24
And fix my dinner...
Thu, 2009-09-24 07:38
#25
Inspired by this encounter, Song is starting a new summer program for girls. The goal of Make-over Camp is to instill poise, grace and confidence in girls between the ages of 10 and 14. For two weeks, they will learn to improve their posture, voice, table manners, conversation skills, wardrobe choices, makeup application, hostessing skills and music appreciation. "We see a lot of young ladies who can benefit from a makeover program," said Angela Chan, director of Lambda and co-creator of the camp. "They need to develop their presence."
It does sound a lot like a crash-course version of an old style Finishing School. All of this stuff does have some value, but why just for the girls? Well, the boys can probably go without makeup application, Miss Vera can attend to that if they want it, but the rest is good.
Thu, 2009-09-24 09:30
#26
remind
bleck bleck and bleck.
we all know supporters of "better manners", were perfect examples of humanity when they were young. :rolleyes:
Thu, 2009-09-24 09:48
#27
It's kind of hard to believe that a sexist camp like this is being promoted on babble for the betterment of girls. This is the type of thing I'd expect to see on Free Dominion.
But, in the interests of not stifling discussion (which seems to have broken out about this), I'll let it go. Besides which, I think everyone has made the point about how sexist this camp is much better than closing the thread would.
Thu, 2009-09-24 10:05
#28
remind
I don't know michelle, giving the slithering minions room to come here and post their crap is a slippery slope.
Thu, 2009-09-24 10:08
#29
Jingles isn't a slithering minion. He has a few knee-jerk "quirks" when it comes to population control and "kids these days", it's true. But I figure it's better for him to be corrected by you and others on some of those "quirks" than by me. :)
Thu, 2009-09-24 10:32
#30
remind
sexist offensive crap = slithering minions, in my book
going to start allowing discussions on choice rights soon too?
Thu, 2009-09-24 12:05
#31
The choice seems to be either rigorously keep out reactionary ideas or to be allowed to pounce on them with prejudice when they issue from people we have learned to tolerate (rather than newbies on a rampage). I like the latter.
Thu, 2009-09-24 12:56
#32
remind
Me too....
Thu, 2009-09-24 21:40
#33
M. Spector
Some people have a funny way of expressing differences with people they supposedly have "learned to tolerate".
They resort to ridiculous name-calling rather than serious discussion. That's not my definition of tolerance.