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On many vital issues, the NDP have been on the mark
Thu, 2009-09-24 04:27
#1
On many vital issues, the NDP have been on the mark
Thu, 2009-09-24 04:31
#2
In other words, give the NDP some power and things will improve overall in Canada.
On many vital issues, the NDP have been on the mark
What party is getting it right? Not on the political scoreboard, which is the journalistic obsession, but on the criteria that really count - policies that affect the country.
On that note, the question of track record, has anyone been looking at the NDP's performance? There have been several developments in the past week alone that bring the third party to mind.
First was the government's decision to amend the employment insurance system. The New Democrats were highly instrumental in that call, a decision that, as a healthy byproduct, prevented the onset of an unwanted election. In aligning with the Conservatives on the issue, they also turned the coalition debate and all its attendant paranoia on its ear.
No credit came their way. Nothing new here. In big media precincts, the knees started jerking, as they often do when the left rears its unshapely head, and the NDP move was denounced as a politically motivated act of desperation. Out came the machine guns. Bang! Bang! Down went the guys in orange ties.
But be that as it may. It's well known that the Dippers have no media proprietors in their philosophical corner. It's well known that counterculture journalism is a bygone thing. There was obviously political calculation in what the party did. But on what matters, the EI issue, a policy advance was made.
The past week was also notable with regard to Afghanistan. The war has reached such a point of deterioration that even the generals are no longer issuing the types of public-relations pronouncements that have sucked in so many for so long, in so many wars. Even the military brass are down on the war's prospects. And, since we're on the subject of track record, we should ask which party was the most skeptical about this war from the outset. Which was the party that said the war couldn't be won militarily, that pushed for negotiations and that, for its efforts, had its leader denounced as Taliban Jack?
The past week saw Barack Obama's cancellation of the missile defence system for Eastern Europe. Canada's most vocal opponent of missile defence, going back a long way, has been the NDP. The idea of putting up a system that might not work and that alienated Russia, in places like Poland, was at best bewildering. One had to presuppose (A) that Iran would be allowed to get nuclear weapons, (B) that Iran would risk retaliatory annihilation in deploying them and (C) that the Iranians would choose Krakow as a target.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/on-many-vital-issues-the-nd...
Thu, 2009-09-24 07:09
#3
My first impulse is to wonder what the NDP has done wrong so as to get such praise in the Globe and Mail. 
However, I can't argue with the column.
Thu, 2009-09-24 08:19
#4
Layton and the NDP became the adults in the room - stepping up to the plate again.
Thu, 2009-09-24 09:10
#5
I know there are some rapid NDP partisans on babble. But this article honestly talks about the NDP and the part that I appreciate is that it openly identifies that the NDP has no Media backer. I don't know what made the writer give some kudos to the NDP. Probably got tired of stepping on the ants and decided to have a look at what they were trying to build.
Thu, 2009-09-24 09:46
#6
remind
They have been the most vocal opponents of foreign takeovers of Canadian companies. That got them labelled as antediluvian nationalists. But as our crown jewels continue to be sold off, you don't hear that criticism as much. Even some Conservatives are now wondering if the hollowing-out trend has gone too far.The Dippers were early environmental warriors. Their warnings on income inequality – check the ugly stats on the current gap between rich and poor – have turned out to be highly credible. On the native peoples file, they were the ones who pressed the government to make the emotional residential schools apology.
Politically, the New Democrats are not getting much traction. It's tough when you have no control of the airwaves. They are still stereotyped by an image tethered to decades past. But they can take comfort in knowing that on many of the vital issues, they've been on the mark. Never mind the political score. On what really matters, vindication has come their way.
Thu, 2009-09-24 10:06
#7
This absurd bashing of Layton both here and in the MSP is unwarranted. Almost no one in Canada wanted another federal election right now, least of all the Liberals, and yet people are attacking Layton for keeping the government afloat. With the Liberals sinking like a stone, probably the only net result of an election right now would be a Harper majority. Is that what people really want.
Give Jack Layton a break
http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/opinion/article/801599
Thu, 2009-09-24 10:19
#8
When you read beyond the headline:
So it's time to give Jack Layton a break from derision for preserving us from an election. The reality is that there are four parties in Parliament. [b]Three of them are left-of-centre[/b], and as long as the lone centre-right one holds the most seats, at least one of the others is going to have to act responsibly and [b]compromise some ideological consistency[/b] if we are to avoid perpetual serial elections. The only alternative would be for the three lefty parties to defeat the government and form a coalition - an alternative Canadians don't like, and which Michael Ignatieff now says he will have no part of.Layton deserves a bit of approbation from the commentariat - not brickbats and jeers - for his [b]newfound realpolitik flexibility[/b].
So now the NDP is getting approval from where it really counts - the right wing of the MSM?
Perhaps, when our enemies are praising us, it's time to invest in a mirror.
Mind you, he hit the nail on the head in one sentence:
Giving Jack Layton just enough of a concession on Employment Insurance reform for a pretext to support the government is the mark of a smart politician.
Thu, 2009-09-24 10:27
#9
M. Spector
Yes, I think preventing an election was more than just a "healthy byproduct" of the pathetic little EI concessions Harper made.
Thu, 2009-09-24 10:28
#10
remind
There are not 3 parties who are left.
I would rather have staus quo than a Harper majority.
Thu, 2009-09-24 10:41
#11
Boom Boom
Geez, the closer we get to a Harper majority the happier I am that I chose to remain in a very isolated territory in Quebec far, far removed from the madness that is Ottawa. A Harper majority might finally push Quebec into sovereignty, because I doubt few here will identify with those right wing religious fundie zealot jerks that make up the "Harper Government", as they call themselves. The BQ and PQ must be giddy with excitement at the prospect of a Harper majority, because it's a gift for them.
Thu, 2009-09-24 10:42
#12
There are three parties that are left of Harper - not that's saying much.
Thu, 2009-09-24 10:48
#13
Geez, the closer we get to a Harper majority the happier I am that I chose to remain in a very isolated territory in Quebec far, far removed from the madness that is Ottawa. A Harper majority might finally push Quebec into sovereignty, because I doubt few here will identify with those right wing religious fundie zealot jerks that make up the "Harper Government", as they call themselves. The BQ and PQ must be giddy with excitement at the prospect of a Harper majority, because it's a gift for them.
I can see why you might think that, but one the great mysteries of the past year is the fact that we have a Conservative government that is extremely unpopular in Quebec and that saved its skin last winter by resorting to some really base Quebec-bashing. Normally, this ought to be a key ingredient for Quebec to feel disaffected with Canada and to want sovereignty etc... and yet according all available research support for sovereignty is about as low as its been in a generation and the PQ is going no where in Quebec politics. I wonder if anyone in Quebec has written about the total failure of the PQ/BQ to ytake advantage of having a federal government that is so alien to Quebec.
Thu, 2009-09-24 10:50
#14
remind
Frankly the Liberals are in the exact same position on the spectrum, that the Cons are. In fact, given they have no humanitarianism, and their total absobtion with absolute power, within their ranks they could be further to the right even
Thu, 2009-09-24 11:00
#15
Geez, the closer we get to a Harper majority the happier I am that I chose to remain in a very isolated territory in Quebec far, far removed from the madness that is Ottawa. A Harper majority might finally push Quebec into sovereignty, because I doubt few here will identify with those right wing religious fundie zealot jerks that make up the "Harper Government", as they call themselves. The BQ and PQ must be giddy with excitement at the prospect of a Harper majority, because it's a gift for them.
Quebec squeezes out just enough Conservative votes to have a say in Ottawa every federal election.
Thu, 2009-09-24 11:45
#16
I wonder if anyone in Quebec has written about the total failure of the PQ/BQ to ytake advantage of having a federal government that is so alien to Quebec.
Are you serious? This is precisely where their success has been - pressuring Ottawa to devolve one power after another, with the means to finance it - just look at the QPIP for example, which is the best maternity-parental benefit and leave provision in the country. There are too many examples to list. As with Bill 101, the more autonomy they are able to achieve in vital social, cultural, and economic fields, the (ironically) fewer reasons there are to break up confederation.
Thu, 2009-09-24 12:24
#17
Frankly the Liberals are in the exact same position on the spectrum, that the Cons are. In fact, given they have no humanitarianism, and their total absobtion with absolute power, within their ranks they could be further to the right even
Yup. Take human rights in China for example. Every now and then the socially conservative Christian base of the Cons inadvertently causes them to stumble to the left of the Liberals.
Thu, 2009-09-24 13:08
#18
remind
"causes them to stumble to the left of the Liberals."
Thu, 2009-09-24 13:09
#19
The PQ/BQ doesn't want to "make federalism work", they want Quebec to be an independent country. Right now they are further from that goal than ever before - despite having a federal government that ought to be a "poster boy" for all the reasons why Quebec ought to feel alienated from the rest of Canada.
If the PQ and BQ have now changed their minds and they no longer want Quebec to be an independent country and in fact all they want is a bit more autonomy here and there - then that is EARTHSHATTERING news that ought to be a banner headline in every newspaper in the country!
Thu, 2009-09-24 13:44
#20
remind
ya, my earth shattered here alright.
Thu, 2009-09-24 13:58
#21
U:
"So now the NDP is getting approval from where it really counts - the right wing of the MSM?"
Lawrence Martin as the "right wing of the MSM'? You are way behind in your reading, U.
Mon, 2009-09-28 11:06
#22
'It's about the people who elected us': Layton
Sept 27 2009
Jack Layton
Leader of the New Democratic Party
It's not about us. That's my mantra when I have to make a tough political decision because it can be so easy to succumb to decision paralysis if the focus is inward: What will the other parties do? Will our supporters agree? Will a decision cause rifts? Can it be communicated clearly? Will we be pummelled by the pundits?
Mon, 2009-09-28 17:02
#23
remind
Thanks for this madmax, good opinion piece by Jack.
Mon, 2009-09-28 17:52
#24
So the NDP now sees the Globe and Mail as an ally. *sigh* Time for plan C.
Mon, 2009-09-28 18:11
#25
LMAO. Sure, the Globe and Mail is an alley of the socialist hordes. Considering that the article itself acknowledges that the NDP has no media allies, it is a curse if any media speak well of the NDP. Life would be better if they just ignored the 4th party.
Mon, 2009-09-28 18:21
#26
No, life would be better if the NDP stopped trying to appease those who can't be appeased, and accepting their framing of the issues up to and including calling anyone to your left a 'socialist'. (not that theres anything wrong with that, but we all know what the other side means by that "socialist" label surely, and we all know the NDP will never escape it regardless of how much they abandon its principles)
Better to speak to those who can be won over and develop alternative venues and outlets. Really guys, bathwater is only good for the garden and only in carefully aimed doses.
Mon, 2009-09-28 18:33
#27
remind
Apparently you one of the ones who can't be appeased, Erik, so I vote we should just ignore those who are negative Ned's. ;)
Mon, 2009-09-28 18:38
#28
Feel free remind, ignoring the truth by simply dissing those willing to speak it won't help your impossible dream of replacing the liberals -by becoming them. Since I never quite finished off my previous I think I'll take another day or so knocking down some of the silly things being espoused by loyalists here. Someone's got to do it.
Mon, 2009-09-28 18:48
#29
remind
Truth is a relative thing Erik, I have yet to find any in your words recently.
Mon, 2009-09-28 19:19
#30
That the best you can do? If you really believed that you could always challenge what I've written instead. You've done better.
And since you mentioned it, truth isn't entirely relative. Whats really meant by that is our personal reactions to it vary and we all have a slightly a different perspective on it. But if an elephant is standing in the room I think everyone knows it for what it is, regardless of whether they're on it or under it or only looking for more space to recline.
Mon, 2009-09-28 19:27
#31
Lawrence Martin as the "right wing of the MSM'? You are way behind in your reading, U.
I'm pretty sure Unionist is referring to Charles Moore who he quotes in the same post from The Telegraph link in North Report's post above. I'm not familiar with the columnist but from his obvious relief at having Harper's government remain in power I would say Unionist's assessment is pretty safe. And it's not like Lawrence Martin is "left wing". He would like nothing more than for the NDP to move farther to the right. He is only 'left of centre' for a Liberal and would clearly like to see the NDP somewhat successful primarily to pressure his own party back towards a more Chretien/Trudeau-like approach.
It certainly doesn't hurt to have someone like him saying the occasional nice thing about the NDP in the Globe but I hardly think it helps much either. A big part of the NDP's problem is that they think this kind of media attention will make the difference between success and failure. There are far more important and effective ways of changing public perception and exciting the electorate than having gatekeepers in the mainstream media pat the party on the head.
Mon, 2009-09-28 19:38
#32
Lawrence Martin as the "right wing of the MSM'? You are way behind in your reading, U.I'm pretty sure Unionist is referring to Charles Moore who he quotes in the same post from The Telegraph link in North Report's post above.
Thank you for reading my post before commenting on it, MLP - unlike some others. I had just finished quoting this Moore character as saying the Liberals were "left of centre", which I thought was a pretty safe indicator of a right-winger. To cite articles like this one favourably is a mark of desperation.
[b]HELLO OUT THERE[/b] - I'm talking about Charles Moore - not Lawrence Martin - [b]DO I NEED TO SAY IT LOUDER!?[/b]
Mon, 2009-09-28 19:52
#33
I think I hear you now Unionist. ;)
One nitpick though, Lawrence Martin isn't quite as liberal or "red tory" as he liked to portray himself either. Step or two left of Geoffry Simpson perhaps, and somewhat more objective and interesting commentator on the ins and outs of inner-Ottawa. I just assume most the others are too predictably establishment to take seriously.
Mon, 2009-09-28 19:59
#34
It certainly doesn't hurt to have someone like him saying the occasional nice thing about the NDP in the Globe but I hardly think it helps much either. A big part of the NDP's problem is that they think this kind of media attention will make the difference between success and failure. There are far more important and effective ways of changing public perception and exciting the electorate than having gatekeepers in the mainstream media pat the party on the head.
Couldn't have said it better myself. (big compliment from my apparently outsized ego...)
Mon, 2009-09-28 20:09
#35
remind
That the best you can do? If you really believed that you could always challenge what I've written instead. You've done better.And since you mentioned it, truth isn't entirely relative. Whats really meant by that is our personal reactions to it vary and we all have a slightly a different perspective on it. But if an elephant is standing in the room I think everyone knows it for what it is, regardless of whether they're on it or under it or only looking for more space to recline.
Simply tired of repeating the same things ad naseum in rebuttal, to those who base without substance, in order to grind whatever axe they have.
Tired of the Liberals and Cons, very tired, and the NDP could not do any worse than they have. It is time for a change.
Pretty much everything else is mute and geared to keeping the LibCons in place.
Mon, 2009-09-28 20:52
#36
Uh-uh, I'm trying to stop the NDP from making the same disastrous mistake the Liberals did under Chretien-Martin --except worse as the NDP will never even achieve office by accepting the heart of the oppositions agenda. I still offer more criticism of that Lib-con alliance than most partisans, at least since Layton signed on. If my posts were so devoid of substance then there'd be more direct challenge to them by the loyalists here, thank you very much.
Mostly I was offering ways out and around but apparently even that is too much for some now. Like I said though it don't matter, closing ranks only works on those looking for a seat at the table. I'm looking for more.
Mon, 2009-09-28 20:59
#37
remind
Oh puleez! :rolleyes:
Mon, 2009-09-28 21:10
#38
Gosh, the dreaded eyes rolling argument. Didn't you just tell others to close ranks and ignore me? Why yes, yes you did yet here you still are! Sorry you don't like paying taxes remind, noone does really but social democrats understand that short term pain is still necessary for long term gain. If you know of any other "vital issues" that Layton is going to get Harper to agree to do let us know.
Mon, 2009-09-28 21:43
#39
And one wonders why the NDP is moving rightish? The left(yes I am part of it) is full of cranks like me and special interests(as is the right) This thread illustrates why they have a hard time getting votes. Those that probably would vote for them don't want to be bothered cuz they have watered down their message, or label them as just like the other parties. Regardless of the drift you can see they are still far and away the most left of the parties.
When we pull off a reform and start getting our agenda as the norm for regular canadians(and this only comes from credibility in the media to most) then we can form a more left party and force the spectrum towards the brave questions. Maybe even have PR one day to allow us to vote with sincerity.
Mon, 2009-09-28 21:44
#40
Oh and since the line remains the same, heres some of the content I've been adding which challenge the assumptions of about every second posts made by loyalists here since Layton bought the magic beans. (and others before him)
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/why-ndp-must-move-ways-lef...
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/how-make-new-democratic-pa...
Let us radical social democrats know if the liberal-lite establishment has any interest in perfectly democratic reform or rethinking their own "centrist" assumptions, given the repeated demonstrations that there isn't much substance supporting them, structurally or politically. By my count up to now it's almost one hundred percent no.
Mon, 2009-09-28 21:47
#41
remind
I have been reading the inanity of it all erik.
Mon, 2009-09-28 21:49
#42
Fair enough, but it's doubtful if the party leaders actually support PR either or believes in getting any other message out. I've suggested ways to do that too over the past ten years of my sometimes-involvement. I haven't given up hope entirely as the party is indeed full of "cranks" like us still. Why more democracy in-house is so deeply resisted now. If it were just a few wayward Trots and dreamers it wouldn't even be seen as a problem worth suppressing.
Mon, 2009-09-28 21:51
#43
I have been reading the inanity of it all erik.
If it's so inane why do you rely on inane comments yourself? Never mind, feel free to ignore as you promised.
Mon, 2009-09-28 22:52
#44
remind
Welll...I see it as inane, because I decided to simplify things, in respect outcomes, that are real and pratical for this moment in time, as opposed to some theoretical time down the road, when social utopia will be desired by the majority.
The reality for women, should Harper get a majority, is not a very pleasant one to contemplate. We have already viewed what he can do in a minority. Of course, men do not take this into consideration, while they are mucking about posturing and other such inane things, while impacting negative on a different possible future, than a Harper majority, or even one propped up by the Liberals.
Then if one contemplates a Liberal government, under Ignatieff, or any of those other privileged white males in the Liberal rankings, one can see that they would not be interested in reversing what Harper has done. Nor would they be johnny on the spot fixing EI, another thing unfairily impacting women.
Both are controlled by corporations, the same corporations. There is nothing good going to happen for Canadians with either of their continued reign.
When I look to what is going to help women the most, I understand it is a strong NDP. The stronger the better. Anything that would impact the situation facing us in a negative manner, I am not going to support, and I am going to indicate my sentiments, when I see men risking my future, and that of Canadian women, by their stroking their ego and thinking they know "it all". And if things ain't perfectly they way they want them, well the rest of us be damned/. After all, you get to keep your cushy privileged little white man's world. No change means sfa to your state in life.
So...I happen to think positive solidarity, and working towards the positive is a better way to go, rather than constantly tearing down achievements, and eating our own, because it all is not perfect enough, for some men.
I know my life would be better if the NDP held at least had the balance of power, and I know that pressure can be put on them to achieve more.
I know the Liberals and Conservatives will fuck up all of our futures. And there can be no pressure put on them, unless the NDP holds the balance.
What is being suppressed is the acknowlegement of the plight of women, under a potential Harper majority.
Mon, 2009-09-28 23:48
#45
"Welll...I see it as inane, because I decided to simplify things, in respect outcomes, that are real and pratical for this moment in time, as opposed to some theoretical time down the road, when social utopia will be desired by the majority."
I understand that, our views Re economics etc have never been identical, but I'm not arguing for anything 'utopian' either, as everything implied has been done before succesfully within a "mixed economy" and most Canadians apparently still support it --almost certainly the majority of those who support the NDP or work for them. Thats something party strategists better start taking more seriously.
The question then is whether we move forward to this social democratic society again (with necessary environmental and democratic reforms) or continue to retreat back. That might be answered by asking whether the previous decade(s) of retreat have made it any easier for any progressive movement or party. Or only strengthened the rights' grip.
I'll post a bit more later tonight, if I'm up, then retreat myself to less stressful subjects.
Tue, 2009-09-29 11:03
#46
remind
Frankly, I do not see a retreat back anywhere in social justice actioning, especially in compare to the Liberals and Conservatives, and what they are doing to Canada with the help of the msm elites.
Sure enough I see issues that need to be actioned within some components of the party, however they are trivial, when one looks at the broader picture of politics and impacts upon Canadians.
People who would rather tear down, and yes for a brief moment I was there too, than be strongly positive, do nothing to improve the plight of Canadians, under LibCon regimes.
Tue, 2009-09-29 16:43
#47
Hey, even the National Post loves the NDP now that they're such good buddies with the Conservative Party. :D
Tue, 2009-09-29 16:51
#48
If Jack became alot more like Tony Blair they would get far more favourable press from the Toronto media but what would be the point for progressive people.
Tue, 2009-09-29 16:55
#49
For some reason, that reminds me of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nupdcGwIG-g&feature=related][color=red]this old love song[/color][/url].
Tue, 2009-09-29 17:05
#50
I wonder if the Toronto Star is jealous.
Tue, 2009-09-29 17:08
#51
... because supporting modest EI reform is the equivalent of a war crime?
I know people are eager to label the NDP class traitors but... seriously?