tigana - you do realize The Onion is making fun through use of satire
Canadian H1N1 Vaccine will have mercury in it
Mon, 2009-10-26 15:39
#102
Mon, 2009-10-26 15:49
#103
Tigana
"There is no health in us..."
Americans are fond of appeals to deity, but this does not sit well with Canadians - and this is a secular site.
My interest lies in determining the truth about Canada's government and health products including vaccines, and in finding a way to a better, healthier, richer Canada.
It seems to me that too many of the posters here are going along with an agenda set by multinational carpetbaggers. Boessenkool and lobbyists like him have taken over Ottawa and are spending your money. Health Canada now refers to pharmaceutical companies as "our clients". Some of you are dupes forr the things you think you oppose.
Swallowing pills and propaganda about medications will not lead to health and is certainly not the way to wealth or happiness.
A "Garden of Eden" diet - the "ground" Pasteur spoke of - will establish and preserve health and help most conditions.
Mon, 2009-10-26 15:50
#104
I do agree with you about that, for sure, and I too wonder about conflicts of interest but I don't think we can demand that anyone else look at that if they are not inclined to.
Mon, 2009-10-26 15:51
#105
Tigana
Unfortunately, a lot of people are going to have to learn the hard way and will pay with their health - or their lives.
Mon, 2009-10-26 15:57
#106
Tigana, I know like and respect people who feel very much as you do. I am also not in complete disagreement. As someone who works in the mental health field I would be an idiot not to have some skepticism for the western medical model in general. However, please don't call other babblers dupes.
Mon, 2009-10-26 16:01
#107
Tigana
How about "lost".
Mon, 2009-10-26 16:01
#108
Tigana, have you read any of [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcia_Angell]Marcia Angell's[/URL] books or essays? I am no expert in this field, but she has been my touchstone on Big Pharma for some years now, and like a lot of people here, I have real-life reasons to be sceptical about the industry.
There are many people here sympathetic to your scepticism, but even sceptics need to be rational and discriminating, tied down to evidence as much as we can be.
Mon, 2009-10-26 16:10
#109
Polly B
Swallowing pills and propaganda about medications will not lead to health and is certainly not the way to wealth or happiness.
A "Garden of Eden" diet - the "ground" Pasteur spoke of - will establish and preserve health and help most conditions.
What she said 
Mon, 2009-10-26 16:11
#110
Polly B
I won't be getting the vaccine, I fear it has been rushed to market and I doubt the necessity. I will take my chances on the flu, which I think I may have already had.
Mon, 2009-10-26 16:14
#111
Polly B
I won't be getting the vaccine, I fear it has been rushed to market and I doubt the necessity. I will take my chances on the flu, which I think I may have already had.
* Edited to add: I don't post that often anymore. When I do I like to try and keep my numbers up. Excuse the double posts I have NO IDEA why it happens to me all the time.
Mon, 2009-10-26 16:20
#112
You can count me among the people who feel that Big Pharma are crooks and that corporations have way too much influence on public policy. That doesn't change the fact that vaccines have been an extremely important public health tool. Vaccination campaigns are credited with [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox]completely eradicating smallpox[/url] and with [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio]reducing polio cases[/url] from hundreds of thousands a year to "around a thousand." So when the discussion seems to begin with the premise that all vaccinations are bad, I have more than a little trouble accepting it.
Mon, 2009-10-26 16:28
#113
Tigana
Tigana, have you read any of [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcia_Angell]Marcia Angell's[/URL] books or essays? I am no expert in this field, but she has been my touchstone on Big Pharma for some years now, and like a lot of people here, I have real-life reasons to be sceptical about the industry.
There are many people here sympathetic to your scepticism, but even sceptics need to be rational and discriminating, tied down to evidence as much as we can be.
The evidence is already in and I am no longer a sceptic. More Angell, less GOD would be good.
Mon, 2009-10-26 16:31
#114
Tigana
Since 1949, it has been known that Polio can be cured with Vitamin C.
Mon, 2009-10-26 16:41
#115
That doesn't change the fact that a vaccine was successful against it.
ETA: And while there's been a lot of work done using Vitamin C to treat other conditions as well, there can be side effects to large dose Vitamin C treatments too.
Mon, 2009-10-26 16:50
#116
[url=http://vactruth.com/2009/07/21/dr-andrew-moulden-interview-what-you-were.... Andrew Moulden (Interview): What You Were Never Told About Vaccines[/url] (Canadian) Vaccines and the "sludging effect"
Mon, 2009-10-26 16:57
#117
I had my H1N1 shot. I didn't notice any side effects. I didn't know my ceilings were this low though, and for some reason I can't reach the top of the woodpile anymore.
Mon, 2009-10-26 17:06
#118
Tigana
Thanks for the link to Dr. Andrew Moulden, Fidel. That site contained this link - a good sign -
http://www.cspinet.org/integrity/
"Monitoring, Exposing, and Opposing Conflicts
The Integrity in Science (ISS) Project combats corporate influence on science and science-based public policy. We scrutinize more than 200 science-based federal advisory committees for undisclosed conflicts of interest, monitor the media and scientific literature for failure to disclose, and encourage the adoption of strong disclosure policies. ISS publishes the weekly Integrity in Science Watch e-Newsletter and maintains an open database of public records of scientists' ties to industry.
Search the Database
Do your own conflict of interest research in our database of over 4,000
scientists. You should know that the database is not comprehensive and does not imply that anyone acted improperly or the results of industry-funded activities are invalid. Likewise, exclusion from the database should not be interpreted as the absence of corporate ties."
Mon, 2009-10-26 17:28
#119
Fidel: A quick romp through the internet suggests that Dr. Moulden is quite a controversial fellow. I didn't read the entire interview but I suspect the most notable part is when he says his work [i]will[/i] be submitted for peer review in several months. Did that happen? That would be a good thing to know. He's the one who lists all of his scientific credentials and claims to [i]be[/i] a scientist. Peer review is part of the world he himself appears to embrace.
Apparently there is also controversy surrounding his association with the Canadian Action Party which he led for a while and then abruptly resigned from. He seems to have a variety of interests.
[b]Edited to add:[/b]
Okay, I spent a few more minutes at vactruth.com and was treated to a replay of the theory that the WHO and the UN are plotting to kill us all. I've always been a bit confused as to how the drug companies are supposed to ensure continuing mass profits after they kill all their customers but I bet there's an interesting explanation. I won't be around to hear it though. I'm done here.
Mon, 2009-10-26 17:28
#120
[drift]Here's something I didnt know. Apparently being dehydrated can cause blood tests to read abnormally high for cholesterol. A lack of water results in lowered cell integrity, and your body produces cholesterol to make the repairs to blood vessels as they begin to break down. Being properly hydrated helps to alleviate any inflamations in your body.
I think that a lot of people run around dehydrated. They say a difference of one percent in hydration can mean the difference in feeling good and not. We're constantly losing water from our bodies through expelled breath, going to the bathroom, sweating etc. Too, your body's immune system is highly dependent on different fluids that all water based for the most part. Everything from phlegm as a first line immune response, to your blood works, lymph fluids etc. And if you are sick, make sure to flush any just used kleenex down the toilet to prevent reinfecting yourself as well as others. Wash hands with soap and water. Wipe off surfaces people touch often, like door knobs, refridgerator handles etc [/drift]
Mon, 2009-10-26 17:29
#121
Tigana
That doesn't change the fact that a vaccine was successful against it.
ETA: And while there's been a lot of work done using Vitamin C to treat other conditions as well, there can be side effects to large dose Vitamin C treatments too.
Polio shots are another Pharma make-work enterprise. To promote the vaccine, evidence about the healthful and lifesaving effects of Vitamin C was suppressed, and people died.
For those who don't know, the main side effect of too much Vitamin C is diarrhea. Take it to bowel tolerance and you'll be fine.
Deaths from vitamins annually? None.
Reference: Where are the Bodies?
http://www.doctoryourself.com/vitsafety.html
Update: The original inoculation against smallpox was nothing like the Frankenstein vaccinations of today.
http://www3.shropshire-cc.gov.uk/roots/packages/med/med_i05.htm
Mon, 2009-10-26 17:52
#122
M. Spector
I can't believe I'm the first one in this thread to call bullshit on Tigana's repetition of the lie that AIDS was spread to North America through vaccines.
Mon, 2009-10-26 17:56
#123
I think you're probably the first person to read enough of Tigana's posts to catch it.I can't believe I'm the first one in this thread to call bullshit on Tigana's repetition of the lie that AIDS was spread to North America through vaccines.
Make me the second person to call BS please.
Mon, 2009-10-26 17:59
#124
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:05
#125
Tigana
Oh, Pogge is gone - too bad. Looks like Baxter had its flu vaccine available in 2006.
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:08
#126
Fidel: A quick romp through the internet suggests that Dr. Moulden is quite a controversial fellow.
But I'll bet you're at least a little less confident in the idea of having annual vaccines after having read Moulden's educated opinion. It's become big business, and now governments are helping big pharma market their stuff. I think vaccines are a good thing to guard against crippling and dangerous diseases, and for front line health care workers. As for myself, I'm not crazy about shooting aluminum and mercury and other junk into myself and causing a sludging effect in my plumbing.
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:08
#127
Tigana
AIDS spread through vaccine created by Merck? Yes, watch the video and you will see the researcher admit it.
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:16
#128
I can't believe I'm the first one in this thread to call bullshit on Tigana's repetition of the lie that AIDS was spread to North America through vaccines.
From the looks of it, you're going to have to repeat yourself.
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:27
#129
Tigana
Edward Shorter is a professor at the University of Toronto.
http://www.giving.utoronto.ca/chairs/showchairs.asp?ID=119
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:28
#130
That sounds crazy. It's not like a group of madmen ever tried to lebensraum a resource-rich country and its people before and pave the way for industrialists and a banking cabal. Everybody knows they would need an expensive military machine for that purpose.
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:28
#131
Tigana
No problem, skdadl.
AIDS spread through vaccine created by Merck? Yes, watch the video and you will see the researcher admit it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edikv0zbAlU
"This stunning censored interview conducted by medical historian Edward Shorter for WGBH public television (Boston) and Blackwell Science was cut from The Health Century due to its huge liability--the admission that Merck drug company vaccines have traditionally been injecting cancer viruses (SV40 and others) in people worldwide.
This segment of In Lies We Trust: The CIA, Hollywood & Bioterrorism, produced and freely contributed by consumer protector and public health expert, Dr. Leonard Horowitz, features the world's leading vaccine expert, Dr. Maurice Hilleman, who explains why Merck's vaccines have spread AIDS, leukemia, and other horrific plagues worldwide.
Please forward this clip (link) to everyone you know who thinks vaccines are "safe and effective."
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:31
#132
Babble needs to let different voices be heard but once you start down the path of putting wacky conspiracy theories on the same level as fact, whether it's the ones in this thread or 9/11 theories or even globalresearch links this whole board could become overrun and then a joke.
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:34
#133
Tigana
Marcia Angell: Is Academic Medicine for Sale? PDF
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:36
#134
At least Globalresearch.ca is a Canadian site. Some of the links I've seen nailed up are from some highly questionable sources, like that country which is the world's most prolific exporter of terror and torture to the world, and not to mention toxic industrial waste. What's good for big business is good for you!! That's all youre supposed to know really.
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:37
#135
Marcia Angell: Is Academic Medicine for Sale? PDF
Tigana: I know Marcia Angell's work very well, in some detail, and if you think there is any way of appropriating that work for the loose (I'm being kind) arguments that you are making here, then you are just not a very good reader (I'm still being kind).
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:39
#136
wacky conspiracy theories on the same level as fact
No conspiracies here. Just looking for the truth.
[url=http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO412B.html]"When the inquisition came to a suspected area,[/url] the local bishop assembled the people to hear the inquisitor preach against heresy. He would announce a grace period of up to a month for heretics to confess their guilt, recant, and inform on others.if two witnesses under oath accused someone of heresy, the accused person would be summoned to appear. opinions, prejudices, rumors, and gossip were all accepted as evidence. the accused was never told the names of the accusers, nor even the exact charges.
The inquisition would collect accusations, where neighbors can be denounced."
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:41
#137
Tigana
Marcia Angell: Is Academic Medicine for Sale? PDF
Tigana: I know Marcia Angell's work very well, in some detail, and if you think there is any way of appropriating that work for the loose (I'm being kind) arguments that you are making here, then you are just not a very good reader (I'm still being kind).
This is from the PDF:
"Academic medical institutions are themselves growing increasingly beholden to industry. How can
they justify rigorous conflict-of-interest policies for individual researchers when their own ties are
so extensive? Some academic institutions have entered into partnerships with drug companies to set
up research centers and teaching programs in which students and faculty members essentially carry
out industry research. Both sides see great benefit in this arrangement. For financially struggling
medical centers, it means cash. For the companies that make the drugs and devices, it means access
to research talent, as well as affiliation with a prestigious "brand." The time-honored custom of drug
companies' gaining entry into teaching hospitals by bestowing small gifts on house officers has
reached new levels of munificence. Trainees now receive free meals and other substantial favors
from drug companies virtually daily, and they are often invited to opulent dinners and other quasisocial
events to hear lectures on various medical topics. All of this is done with the acquiescence of
the teaching hospitals."
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:44
#138
Tigana
[url=http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO412B.html]"When the inquisition came to a suspected area,[/url] the local bishop assembled the people to hear the inquisitor preach against heresy. He would announce a grace period of up to a month for heretics to confess their guilt, recant, and inform on others.if two witnesses under oath accused someone of heresy, the accused person would be summoned to appear. opinions, prejudices, rumors, and gossip were all accepted as evidence. the accused was never told the names of the accusers, nor even the exact charges.
The inquisition would collect accusations, where neighbors can be denounced."
Yes, I remember Dr. Nancy Oliveri.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/stories/s971469.htm
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:46
#139
Marcia Angell: Is Academic Medicine for Sale? PDF
http://www.healthcoalition.ca/marcia-angell.pdf
Uh, yeah? And ... your point is? In the context of this topic?
I call cheap misappropriation is what I call, and I suspect Marcia Angell would agree with me, not that she'd have the patience for this nonsense, nor should she.
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:46
#140
Tigana
wacky conspiracy theories on the same level as fact
No conspiracies here. Just looking for the truth.
Edit: There is an interesting Pharma watchdog group in BC - some well-respected academics are blowing the whistle.
http://www.straight.com/article-147390/victoria-doublecross-pharma-watchdog
Therapeutics Initiative site:
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:47
#141
As the former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, Marcia Angell would be a strong proponent for evidence-based medicine.
Marcia Angell on alternative medicine:
It is time for the scientific community to stop giving alternative medicine a free ride... There cannot be two kinds of medicine — conventional and alternative. There is only medicine that has been adequately tested and medicine that has not, medicine that works and medicine that may or may not work. Once a treatment has been tested rigorously, it no longer matters whether it was considered alternative at the outset. If it is found to be reasonably safe and effective, it will be accepted.
From "Alternative Medicine — The Risks of Untested and Unregulated Remedies" N Engl J Med 1998 September 17; 339(12): 839-41.
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:52
#142
Tigana
Angell has been active in exposing the greed and corruption in pharma.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22237
There is nothing alternative about nutrition.
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:53
#143
In just the last two decades since end of cold war, that country hath led medieval siege on Iraq causing millions to die in a desert nation, bombed hell out of what is considered to be the cradle of western civilization and supposedly to teach them democracy - murdered millions there and in other countries - bin caught red-handed torturing people and often to their bloody deaths - allies and themselves been suspected of perpetrating false flag terrorism all over the world including NYC on 9/11 - their industries exported toxic waste and WMD to unstable thirdworld countries - and we're supposed to believe America's big pharmaceutical companies just wanna prevent us from getting the fucking flu ffxakes?
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:53
#144
Tigana
Fidel 
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:54
#145
Tigana, you'd be surprised who also knows Nancy Oliveri.
I still wonder what your bricklefritzin' point is. Do you honestly think it is news to anyone who posts to this site that Big Pharma is part of the MIC? I mean, srsly? How old are you?
If you had a serious argument to make on topic, you would have made it by now. You wouldn't just be tossing in one general academic reference after another to authorities who analyse the corruption of the industry in general. By now, we all know that story, or if people don't, then that would be an interesting separate topic. But that's not what this thread is about, or at least that's not how I understood it.
Mon, 2009-10-26 18:57
#146
Tigana
Skdadl, did GOD tell you to say that?
Mon, 2009-10-26 19:00
#147
Catchfire
omg! Close this thread!
Mon, 2009-10-26 19:02
#148
Skdadl, did GOD tell you to say that?
Honey, where I come from, that would mean some kind of serious censure. I gather that's not on at babble at the moment.
What can I say? Pity.
Mon, 2009-10-26 19:02
#149
Don't give in to the inquisitors, Tigana. We're guilty either way.
Mon, 2009-10-26 19:03
#150
....
Tigana: I know Marcia Angell's work very well, in some detail, and if you think there is any way of appropriating that work for the loose (I'm being kind) arguments that you are making here, then you are just not a very good reader (I'm still being kind).
Do you seriously think you are being kind? It doesn't feel like kindness to me, it feels like a threat (ooooh what happens when skdadl is not kind?) and a personal insult. I think you could have disagreed without the jabs and as you are someoneone who is respected here I would hope that you refrain from insulting other posters.
Mon, 2009-10-26 19:08
#151
Forget the torture and mass murder, and their making with the lebensraum in Iraq etc for the corporate world's sake, and one-in-two cancer rates for our area of the world. They just wanna cure us of the flu!