Is H1N1 in your area?

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Wed, 2009-10-28 07:11

Michelle

Tigana, please quote a small part and link to the rest when you are posting articles on babble. Posts like #20 disrupt the flow of conversation because you're cutting and pasting long articles in a thread where a conversation is happening.

Stockholm, your tone in this thread is unnecessarily rude and baiting. What started out as a thread where people are reporting on the incidence of H1N1 in their area could have suddenly turned ugly with your post about "crazy people" who aren't getting vaccinated, when you know there are people on babble who don't want to get vaccinated and you know what kind of bickering that kind of hostile post will provoke. That is called trolling. Thankfully, most people didn't rise to the bait.

Wed, 2009-10-28 07:19

#53

Michelle

martin dufresne wrote:

McGill students hit by H1N1 (Could they have had a hand in developing that superbug?)

You can't be serious. Really? You really believe this? That university students are developing superbugs? Boy, those philosophy courses I took at Queen's were more harmful than I thought!

Quote:
Anyway, they are demanding special treatment - an on-site vaccination clinic, no less - cuz the golden sons and daughters of the aristocracy don't have time to go wait in line at a regular clinic off campus.

Wow, all university students are "sons and daughters of the aristocracy" are they? News to me.

Newsflash: all universities have health clinics. The university I work at (and believe me, I don't run into too many "golden sons and daughters of the aristocracy" - mostly I run into kids working a couple of jobs to pay their tuition and living expenses - and I ran into that at Queen's, too) has a health clinic that does flu shots every year, and most likely they'll end up getting H1N1 vaccine too. I take advantage of it every year and get my shots there during my lunch break rather than making an appointment somewhere else off campus.

Schools and universities are germ factories. It makes perfect sense that the staff and students who go to large schools should have a place on campus where they can get vaccinated easily. The easier you make access to vaccinations, the more likely people will get them. It's that simple.

Wed, 2009-10-28 07:43

#54

Ghislaine

Thanks for pointing that out Michelle. I wanted to respond to martin's post, but couldn't quite formulate an adequate response.

I went to university out-of-province (and I have a $30,000 student loan to prove I am not a daughter of aristocracy), and another big reason there are clinics on campus is so that those types of students can find a freaking family doctor. I would have nothing but ER or long walk-in clinic waits had I not had access to a campus clinic. That was where my doctor was for any exams or regular appoitments that I needed. Considering what high-density environments universities are - and especially residences with two in a small room - these are very important.

RP: thanks for that. Hopefully that means sooner than Nov. 9th here - but either way I am going to wait.

Wed, 2009-10-28 07:52

#55

triciamarie

Re McGill, this is an English university in a predominantly French-speaking province. For many years this school did indeed play a predominant role of consolidating power in the hands of the English minority. Even now, so many years after the quiet revolution, the English still hold a privileged position vs the French both in Quebec and outside of it. So in that context I don't see where martin's comments are out of line at all.

Wed, 2009-10-28 08:17

#56

Michelle

Ah, I see. Okay, I guess I understand where the resentment comes from then, I guess. But that doesn't mean that it's out of line for universities to have vaccination clinics on campus. It's perfectly normal for universities to have health centres, and they go out of their way to try to get all people in the university community, not just students, to get their flu shots every year, at least at the university I'm at. So why wouldn't they also try to get H1N1 vaccines too? The more clinics and the more accessible, the better.

Wed, 2009-10-28 09:50

#57

thanks

Page 18 of 26
sanofi pasteur Product Monograph
314 and 329 – VAXIGRIP®

https://www.vaccineshoppecanada.com/secure/pdfs/ca/vaxigrip_e.pdf

"Since 1977, influenza A (H1N1) viruses, influenza A (H3N2) viruses and influenza B viruses have been in global circulation...

Influenza A (H1N2) has been circulating widely since 2001...

circulating influenza A (H1N2) viruses are a reassortant of influenza A (H1N1) and (H3N2) viruses.."

I really wonder how much of the current 'pandemic' is a factor of attention, reporting, and promotion, rather than actual increase in cases.

I also wonder if increased vaccination programs have encouraged reassortment of viruses over the years.

As the current CBC report on this and commenters have pointed out, it's difficult to know the actual cause of the thirteen year-old's death in Toronto, as a youth who had experienced earlier complications, asthma, etc, and who may have had reactions to the other meds he was given. How often have we been reports of people who have died from various combinations of maladies and flu in the past? Now, in this economy, when biotech and pharma firms are desperate to get ongoing public support for their profits, we get targetted hysteria, courtesy of the global corporate and pharma banking lobbies which also influence the WHO.

This is not to say that pandemics aren't real and possible, but they can be a creation of many factors.

Wed, 2009-10-28 10:25

#58

thanks

and from the same pdf, the line of argument for each of these special populations is outrageous- basically,

We don't know, there aren't enough studies, but give pregnant and nursing women this stuff anyway.'

I wonder if this company, earlier Connaught, bought out by Sanofi-Pasteur /Aventis, which has received contracts to produce vaccines for many Influenza strains in the past and for H1N1 currently, is basing its current promotion for pregnant and nursing women on similarly scant study.

"Pregnant Women
Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with VAXIGRIP®. It is not known whether VAXIGRIP® can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproductive capacity.
Data on the use of this vaccine in pregnant women are limited. VAXIGRIP® should be given to pregnant women only if clearly needed and following an assessment of the risks and benefits. (See INDICATIONS AND CLINICAL USE.)
NACI states that influenza vaccination is recommended for all pregnant women.

Nursing Women
It is not known whether VAXIGRIP® is excreted in human milk. Caution must be exercised when VAXIGRIP® is administered to a nursing mother.
NACI states that influenza vaccination is recommended for breastfeeding women who are characterized by any of the risk conditions in particular those who have chronic health conditions or who are close contacts of high-risk persons. (3) (See INDICATIONS AND CLINICAL USE.)
ACIP states that influenza vaccine is safe for mothers who are breastfeeding and their infants. Breastfeeding does not adversely affect the immune response and is not a contraindication for vaccination."

Wed, 2009-10-28 13:19

#59

oldgoat

I googled a picture of your community once Boom Boom. Shouldn't be much of a lineup.

Wed, 2009-10-28 13:32

#60

G. Muffin

Tigana wrote:
Cancer treatments of radiation, chemo and surgery may be unneccessary. Check out these Canadian health resources.

...

http://www.whale.to/c/hoffer.html - orthomolecular treatments for cancer used by Dr. Abram Hoffer, Saskatchewan physician

There may well be something to vitamin therapy but personally I shut down when I hear the name Abram Hoffer. Sorry to denigrate the dead, but Hoffer's work in psychiatry was laughable. I have no interest in his thoughts on oncology.

Wed, 2009-10-28 13:55

#61

oldgoat

[TROLLING FOR SYMPATHY] my throat feels like crap, I've got the sniffles, my arm is sore from the H1N1 innoculation I got on monday, and it's my birthday. [/TROLLING FOR SYMPATHY]

Wed, 2009-10-28 13:58

#62

Michelle

Happy birthday anyhow! Sorry you're sick! Make your family feed you birthday cake in bed! :)

Wed, 2009-10-28 13:58

#63

G. Muffin

Happy birthday to you, Oldgoat! Feel better soon.

Wed, 2009-10-28 13:58

#64

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

No sympathy here but I hope you have a HAPPY birthday.

Wed, 2009-10-28 14:34

#65

Tigana

G. Pie wrote:

...personally I shut down when I hear the name Abram Hoffer. Sorry to denigrate the dead, but Hoffer's work in psychiatry was laughable. I have no interest in his thoughts on oncology.

Since you mention psychiatry, G. Pie - after a very public flip-out, Margot Kidder got well using orthomolecular treatments, and Shirley Douglas, daugher of Tommy, is a fan of Hoffer. What's so risible?

Wed, 2009-10-28 14:44

#66

Boom Boom

Our isolated community will be offered H1N1 vaccinations on November 4th, and I'll be there.

Wed, 2009-10-28 14:47

#67

Boom Boom

oldgoat wrote:

I googled a picture of your community once Boom Boom. Shouldn't be much of a lineup.

One of the benefits of isolation.

Wed, 2009-10-28 14:49

#68

G. Muffin

Tigana wrote:

G. Pie wrote:

...personally I shut down when I hear the name Abram Hoffer. Sorry to denigrate the dead, but Hoffer's work in psychiatry was laughable. I have no interest in his thoughts on oncology.

Since you mention psychiatry, G. Pie - after a very public flip-out, Margot Kidder got well using orthomolecular treatments, and Shirley Douglas, daugher of Tommy, is a fan of Hoffer. What's so risible?

I'm skeptical because he diagnosed somebody in the 1980s with "anxiety bordering on schizophrenia" which is not a diagnosis nor does it make any sense as anxiety is linked with mood disorders not thought disorders. I'm also not impressed with his claiming he could cure schizophrenia with a combination of electroshock and niacin as his results could not be replicated but he didn't back down. My bigger problem is with any proponent of the biomedical model of mental conditions. Mental disorders are classified as "disorders" for a reason; if they were brain diseases, as alleged, these illnesses would be treated by neurologists.

Wed, 2009-10-28 14:55

#69

rabblephoenix

Does anyone know if Corporations (especially those with American management) across Canada have Human Resources designed preparation plans for their employees?. After the hostage taking at the WCB in Edmonton, people have to question their employer's health plans and insurance company partners. In the economic environment today, it is an opportunity for employers, especially the large corporations, to get rid of employees or at least place a greater burden of proof for continued employment and benefits on employees and their family Doctors. With medical insurance providers concerned about their profit margins, the H1N1 spread will make them less than "recovery orientated" too?

Wed, 2009-10-28 14:58

#70

Boom Boom

Happy Birthday, dear Oldgoat, happy birthday to yoooouuuu!!!!

ps: hope you get well soon.

Wed, 2009-10-28 14:59

#71

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Tigana wrote:

G. Pie wrote:

...personally I shut down when I hear the name Abram Hoffer. Sorry to denigrate the dead, but Hoffer's work in psychiatry was laughable. I have no interest in his thoughts on oncology.

Since you mention psychiatry, G. Pie - after a very public flip-out, Margot Kidder got well using orthomolecular treatments, and Shirley Douglas, daugher of Tommy, is a fan of Hoffer. What's so risible?

Oh, well if it's endorsed by actors, that's good enough for me.... Goodness knows, they're much more reliable than replicated studies. Or the negative evidence of studies where results couldn't be replicated.

Hey, let's go ask Tom Cruise if we should get vaccinated! I'm sure he knows better than my doctor!!

Wed, 2009-10-28 15:14

#72

G. Muffin

Tigana wrote:
Hoffer had an insight into the cellular causes of mental malfunctions which allowed him to identify and treat with nutrition both Pellagra and adrenal malfunctions, two of the causes of schizophrenia.

[emphasis added]

Here's my problem. No convincing evidence of any cellular cause for any mental disorder exists.

I'm glad Margot Kidder is doing well without conventional psychiatry. However, I'm also doing well without conventional psychiatry. I don't see what any of this has to do with vitamins.

Wed, 2009-10-28 15:16

#73

Tigana

Great, would love to discuss this - can you start a thread, G. Pie?

Wed, 2009-10-28 15:20

#74

G. Muffin

Tigana wrote:
Great, would love to discuss this - can you start a thread, G. Pie?

I haven't been successful with this in the past but if you were willing to start a thread, I'd love to contribute.

Wed, 2009-10-28 16:00

#75

Doug

Quote:
Cancer treatments of radiation, chemo and surgery may be unneccessary.

This is where the alternative medicine woo-woo becomes dangerous rather than just harmlessly kooky. Encouraging people with cancer to use treatments that don't work instead of treatments that often do costs lives.

Wed, 2009-10-28 16:06

#76

Boom Boom

Any chance of getting this thread back on track and leave the voodoo behind?

Wed, 2009-10-28 16:13

#77

remind

Happy Birthday Old Goat,

hey GPie and Tigana I would be on board with a discussion about that too...

Wed, 2009-10-28 16:18

#78

remind

Boom boom I find that a nasty characterization that has racially charged connotations perhaps an edit?

Wed, 2009-10-28 16:48

#79

Tigana

remind wrote:

Happy Birthday Old Goat,

hey GPie and Tigana I would be on board with a discussion about that too...

A virtual present for Old Goat - Happy Birthday!

http://tinyurl.com/yz73jos

Thanks, Remind - you are an old hand, would you do the honors and open a thread?

Wed, 2009-10-28 16:50

#80

Tigana

G. Pie wrote:

I'm skeptical because he diagnosed somebody in the 1980s with "anxiety bordering on schizophrenia" which is not a diagnosis nor does it make any sense as anxiety is linked with mood disorders not thought disorders. I'm also not impressed with his claiming he could cure schizophrenia with a combination of electroshock and niacin as his results could not be replicated but he didn't back down. My bigger problem is with any proponent of the biomedical model of mental conditions. Mental disorders are classified as "disorders" for a reason; if they were brain diseases, as alleged, these illnesses would be treated by neurologists.

Ah! I see - thank you. The site http://ect.org is one I respect.

However, leaving electroshock out of the equation. Hoffer had an insight into the cellular causes of mental malfunctions which allowed him to identify and treat with nutrition both Pellagra and adrenal malfunctions, two of the causes of schizophrenia. Please see

http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/condition.php?category=neu...

http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/causesofschizophrenia.htm

Many persons who came to Hoffer for treatment of schizophrenia who had cancer recovered from both. We make sure that our pets get the approved amounts of Niacin, zinc, Vitamin C - but often we know little about what we should put into our own bodies. And it's always fun to watch a physician who has one hour of training in nutrition carefully topping up his car tank with Premium.

Wed, 2009-10-28 17:01

#81

Tigana

Doug wrote,

Doug, what does the "Pink Ribbon Campaign" mean to you? To me it is brilliant brainwashing - public relations for medical procedures that cut, poison and burn.

Chemo killed my mother. I've learned a lot since then - and I wish I'd known then what I know now.

http://www.quackpotwatch.org/

"You mean my mother didn't have to die horribly, or even at all?"

Video - Dying to have Known

http://tinyurl.com/dyingtohaveknow

Wed, 2009-10-28 17:39

#82

saganisking

my sister(who's a healthcare worker) her two kids, myself and my mother all got our shots today

my mom works part time at school since she retired and a kid at her school came down with it last week so she was bit nervous, not for herself but her grandchildren who visit often.

Funny reading Tigana's post after watching an episode of Law & Order last night about a girl with severe bi-polar disorderwho is convinced by her celebirty rock star idol's public statements(big pharma - poisoning people for profit blah blah) to stop taking her anti-depression drugs

Wed, 2009-10-28 18:11

#83

G. Muffin

saganisking wrote:
Funny reading Tigana's post after watching an episode of Law & Order last night about a girl with severe bi-polar disorderwho is convinced by her celebirty rock star idol's public statements(big pharma - poisoning people for profit blah blah) to stop taking her anti-depression drugs

Ah, yes, the dangerous unmedicated crazy person. A perennial favourite with Hollywood and the mainstream media.

Wed, 2009-10-28 19:35

#84

Michelle

If it weren't for chemo and radiation, my father would be dead now. So would my aunt.

Wed, 2009-10-28 19:44

#85

martin dufresne

Thanks for writing that, Michelle.

Wed, 2009-10-28 19:51

#86

G. Muffin

My friend still died but chemo and radiation bought her a couple more years.

Wed, 2009-10-28 19:55

#87

Sineed

My friend died at 45, but chemo and radiation had given him 3 more years with his children after being diagnosed with aggressively spreading liver cancer.

Wed, 2009-10-28 21:04

#88

ElizaQ

remind wrote:

Hope you feel better soon eliza...

Thanks Remind. I am feeling better. The blatent symptoms are almost gone but the tiredness is a pain. I had to go into town to get some chicken feed and after I got back and fed them I was exhausted and slept for three hours. It's been years since I have had anything like this. Usually if I do catch something it lasts for a couple of days and that's it. Generally my immune system is pretty good at fighting things off.

Wed, 2009-10-28 21:13

#89

Boom Boom

My dad had chemo for about five years before he died. The first two and a half years or so he was able to go to work or work from home, but after that he was hospitalized and a secretary tok notes from bedside, then my brother and I continued to help him with his writings and memoirs. Surgery became the next choice, and when he had gone from 200 to 140 pounds he died. This was quite a while ago, but some things you never forget.

Wed, 2009-10-28 21:16

#90

Michelle

Hope you get better soon, ElizaQ. Flu is no fun at all. :(

Wed, 2009-10-28 21:29

#91

ElizaQ

Michelle wrote:

Hope you get better soon, ElizaQ. Flu is no fun at all. :(

No it's not fun but on a positive note I've played a couple of computers games which has been kinda fun because the guilt about wasting time when I should really been doing something else isn't there. I've also finished one book thats taken ages to read and caught up on all of the recorded movies that I haven't had time to watch so although I feel like crap at least I've had some time for some guilty pleasures.

Wed, 2009-10-28 21:34

#92

oldgoat

Thanks for people's birthday wishes above. I've survived another year. I'll pass on getting involved in the other stuff above 'til the morrow.

Wed, 2009-10-28 21:39

#93

Tigana

"Oh, well if it's endorsed by actors, that's good enough for me.... Goodness knows, they're much more reliable than replicated studies. Or the negative evidence of studies where results couldn't be replicated.

Hey, let's go ask Tom Cruise if we should get vaccinated! I'm sure he knows better than my doctor!!"

"...watching an episode of Law & Order last night about a girl with severe bi-polar disorderwho is convinced by her celebirty rock star idol's public statements(big pharma - poisoning people for profit blah blah) to stop taking her anti-depression drugs"

Sorry, I can't be of any help here - I got rid of my TV.

Scientology is against medication, and has little or nothing to say about nutrition.

NAMI, the template for Canada's schizophrenia societies, promotes medication and ignores nutrition.

If we took food and vitamins more seriously there would be fewer health problems. Immunity and mental health would be stronger, degenerative diseases would decrease, lifespan would increase.

Then NAMI, Scientology, and a great deal of medical care including counseling would no longer be needed.

Nothing woo about that.

Wed, 2009-10-28 21:54

#94

Polly B

Tigana wrote:

If we took food and vitamins more seriously there would be fewer health problems. Immunity and mental health would be stronger, degenerative diseases would decrease, lifespan would increase.

Aint that the truth! I just watched that idiot Glenn Beck blathering on about the indoctrination of children whose schools are observing Meatless Mondays as a learning experience. Were I not already vegan, that would have done it for me :)

Wed, 2009-10-28 21:58

#95

Refuge

[ thread drift ] Happy Birthday Oldgoat [ /thread drift ]

I have heard H1N1 has hit Toronto but haven't seen any personal evidence, no friends or family taken out. Guess I will see.

Wed, 2009-10-28 21:58

#96

G. Muffin

Tigana wrote:
NAMI, the template for Canada's schizophrenia societies, promotes medication and ignores nutrition.

No surprise there. NAMI now gets 2/3 of their funding from pharmaceutical manufacturers.

ETA: My mistake. It's actually 3/4:

http://tinyurl.com/yf8l5pp

Wed, 2009-10-28 22:10

#97

Sineed

Refuge wrote:

[ thread drift ] Happy Birthday Oldgoat [ /thread drift ]

I have heard H1N1 has hit Toronto but haven't seen any personal evidence, no friends or family taken out. Guess I will see.

Yes - Happy Birthday, (not so) Oldgoat!

At my daughter's school in west Toronto, 125 kids out of ~ 400 were sick, including my daughter, who isn't so sick.

Wed, 2009-10-28 22:12

#98

Bubbles

Today my two highschool kids reported about the same number of kids awol as yesterday, but there was some talk about maybe having to close the school because a fair number of teachers had not shown up. I am not sure what the cut off point is.

Wed, 2009-10-28 22:17

#99

martin dufresne

Isn't it bizarre that the list of affected schools (those where the flu count overpasses 10%) is being kept SECRET??? I heard this mentioned matter-of-factly on Radio-Canada radio this afternoon.

Wed, 2009-10-28 22:20

#100

Polly B

Is it being kept a secret or do they just have no clue? I don't see anything in place here to keep a tally, the only people who are getting tested for the flu are the tremendously sick and hospitalized. When I phoned in this morning to excuse one of my kids from school, they did not ask what it was for (it was dental).

Some kids are faking it. Some are staying home with minor colds etc because they are afraid it may be flu. Some are staying home to keep from getting the flu.

Wed, 2009-10-28 22:37

#101

mmphosis

Excuse-moi?

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