Are you now preaching or have you ever preached "anti-government rhetoric"? The FBI can kill you for that

13 posts / 0 new
Last post
martin dufresne
Are you now preaching or have you ever preached "anti-government rhetoric"? The FBI can kill you for that

F.B.I. Raid Kills Islamic Group Leader Near Detroit
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 9:07 p.m. ET

DETROIT (AP) -- Federal authorities on Wednesday arrested several members of a radical Sunni Islam group in the U.S., killing one of its leaders at a shootout in a Michigan warehouse, the U.S. attorney's office said.

Agents were trying to arrest Luqman Ameen Abdullah, 53, at a Dearborn warehouse on charges that included conspiracy to sell stolen goods and illegal possession and sale of firearms. Authorities also conducted raids elsewhere to try to round up 10 followers named in a federal complaint.

Abdullah refused to surrender, fired a weapon and was killed by gunfire from agents, FBI spokeswoman Sandra Berchtold said.

In the 43-paged complaint unsealed Wednesday, the FBI said Abdullah, also known as Christopher Thomas, was an imam, or prayer leader, of a radical group named Ummah whose primary mission is to establish an Islamic state within the United States.

No one was charged with terrorism. But Abdullah was ''advocating and encouraging his followers to commit violent acts against the United States,'' FBI agent Gary Leone said in an affidavit.

He told them it was their ''duty to oppose the FBI and the government and it does not matter if they die,'' Leone said.

Abdullah regularly preached anti-government rhetoric and was trained, along with his followers, in the use of firearms, martial arts and swords, the agent said.

Leone said members of the national group mostly are black and some converted to Islam while in prisons across the United States. (...)

 (...)

Dawud Walid, executive director of the Michigan chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said the federal authorities' description of Abdullah's extremist links didn't match what he knew of Abdullah.

''I knew him to be charitable,'' Walid said. ''He would open up the mosque to homeless people. He used to run a soup kitchen and feed indigent people. ... I knew nothing of him that was related to any nefarious or criminal behavior.''

Abdullah had a wife and children, Walid said. A phone number for the family had been disconnected.

------

 

 

 

Fidel

And yet they don't mind recruiting and paying people in other countries to commit seditious acts. Hijack a Cuban passenger jet? No problem, the gladio gang have rolled out the welcome home mat for terrorists a number of times.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

The title of this thread suggests that the FBI killed this man because he preached "anti-government rhetoric". But the article on which it is based says that Abdullah fired a weapon, and the FBI fired back. Doesn't sound like an extrajudicial execution to me.

Also, the charges against him had nothing to do with his rhetoric, but "conspiracy to sell stolen goods" and "illegal possession and sale of firearms."

So unless there is other evidence that this article is incorrect, the thread title seems misleading and unjustified.

Fidel

Yes, Abdullah used to run a soup kitchen and fed indigent people. Then he becomes a child beater and America hater. It almost  sounds like theyre describing two different people.

martin dufresne

M.Spector, the charge of "preaching anti-government rhetoric" comes directly from the FBI as part of its justification for action against this imam. As you well know, charges of the victim having fired first are a common defense from police authorities and ought to be taken with a grain of salt. Yet, both it and the anti-government preaching charge are picked up unquestioningly by the NYT, in justification of the man's death. This is what the thread title refers to.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

So you admit there's nothing in the story you quoted to justify your thread title. Your thread title can only be justified if we take the story you quoted "with a grain of salt" and make up our own set of facts.

Or do you have some other source of more reliable information?

martin dufresne

Go ahead, take the FBI's word and justification as Gospel, see if I care...

 

Even keel

I am also skeptical of the FBI's claims, just as I would be skeptical of the RCMP's.  Obviously all this is speculation, but it does seem odd that "preaching anti-government rhetoric" would be brought up at all in this case.  Why haven't the FBI then arrested the white Michigan 'army' that was featured in Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine who also have lots of weapons and who preach anti-government rhetoric?

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

martin dufresne wrote:

Go ahead, take the FBI's word and justification as Gospel, see if I care...

Hey, I'm quite prepared to accept your version of events, if you can present evidence to support it. So far all you have presented is an article from the Associated Press that says Abdullah was killed in a gunfight that he started while resisting arrest on charges of conspiracy to sell stolen goods and illegal possession and sale of firearms; and then you ask us to ignore that and accept your very different version of the facts.

Shootings like this happen every day in the USA. Show me why this one is particularly noteworthy.

martin dufresne

It is not, unfortunately. (You forgot the charge that he was "preaching... oh never mind.)

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

That wasn't a "charge". They weren't trying to arrest him for "preaching..."

The allegation that he was preaching anti-government rhetoric was made by a single FBI officer. It was not offered as a justification for shooting Abdullah, nor was it the subject of any criminal charges against him.

KeyStone

Wow Martin.

That's quite a stretch - even for you.

 

Fidel

martin dufresne wrote:
Go ahead, take the FBI's word and justification as Gospel, see if I care...

 

Are you saying that gladio team red, white and bleu would stoop so low as to fit him up for something he didnt do, like not drawing a gun and firing on FBI agents before they gave him a Bonnie and Clyde ending of him in a warehouse with no other witnesses? Are there any examples of it happening?