H1N1 part zwei

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Fri, 2009-10-30 08:38

Caissa

H1N1 part zwei

Swine flu closes St. George schools

Five schools in the St. George, N.B., area will be closed on Friday due to swine flu, and some of them won't reopen until next Wednesday.

Too many bus drivers are off sick to transport the students and too many teachers are sick to safely supervise them, said Valerie Kilfoil, spokeswoman for the Department of Education.

The affected schools are Fundy High, St. George Elementary, Back Bay, Blacks Harbour and Pennfield Elementary.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2009/10/29/nb-st-george-sch...

Fri, 2009-10-30 09:10

Bubbles

Yesterday my highschool teens reported 18% of the kids absent and 11% of the teachers.

What I find strange is that in Toroto they seem to be vaccinating people already for a few days and in Lindsay, where I am trying to get my 95 year old father vaccinated, they do not start till November 3. Are some areas getting preferential treatment?

Fri, 2009-10-30 09:15

Boom Boom

Here, we've been told to go to the school gym November 4th for our vaccinations.

Fri, 2009-10-30 09:23

Caissa

Our youngest was vacinnated on Wednesday; our oldest is being vaccinated next Thursday.

Fri, 2009-10-30 09:38

Bubbles

These staggered vaccination dates certainly add up to a lot of trips to the clinic. Each trip is about 50km for this family.

Fri, 2009-10-30 09:45

pogge

If you're looking forward to a scheduled vaccination clinic over the next couple of weeks, best confirm that it's still on.

[url=http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20091030/vaccine_flo... vaccine flow will slow over next 2 weeks[/url]

Quote:
Just as demand for the new swine flu vaccine reaches a near frenzy, federal health officials are announcing there will be temporary shortages of the vaccine, as the manufacturer halts production lines to focus on creating vaccine for pregnant women.

Shipments to the provinces and territories would slow because vaccine supplier, GlaxoSmithKline was asked to temporarily shift production to non-adjuvanted vaccine, the federal government agency said in a statement.

The article goes on to say that some jurisdictions are considering cancelling some of the clinics they'd planned.

Fri, 2009-10-30 10:01

Michelle

I'll be getting mine at the clinic at work whenever they get them in, probably in the next couple of weeks, barring any shortages.

I heard on the news that in Vaughan, a 905 exurb-city just north of Toronto, the clinics were letting people wait for hours on end, and then closing the clinic after making them wait.

It's really kind of a no-brainer for them to say, okay, this is how many people we can vaccinate today, and end the line-up so that people don't wait for nothing.

Fri, 2009-10-30 12:33

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Out here, they're vaccinating kids under 5 next week, still waiting for info on older kids and adults. Meanwhile, it looks like my production manager just came down with it.

Fri, 2009-10-30 18:09

NDPP

Obama Administration Launches Swine Flu Propaganda Blitz:

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15860

"to counter growing criticism from Scientific and Medical community"

Fri, 2009-10-30 19:11

#10

Bubbles

Well, that was an interesting read. Thanks for the link.

Fri, 2009-10-30 19:33

#11

pogge

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Obama Administration Launches Swine Flu Propaganda Blitz:

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15860

"to counter growing criticism from Scientific and Medical community"

One of the co-authors is listed as Dr. Gary Null. Would that be the same Gary Null who denies that HIV causes AIDS? (And if so, that "Dr." isn't medical.)

Fri, 2009-10-30 19:39

#12

Sineed

I'm a health care worker and I have asthma, but I haven't been able to get the H1N1: the line-ups have been something like 6 hours long.

I'm also a graduate student of pharmacy, and "Global Research" isn't an accurate source of medical information. For appropriate information, try here:

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/h1n1/index-eng.php

Fri, 2009-10-30 20:08

#13

pogge

I didn't quote that paragraph in there. And you didn't quote anything I wrote so why is my name in there?

Fri, 2009-10-30 20:11

#14

Sineed

Before the present-day pandemic got underway, a few of us on a medical site were discussing the 1976 debacle, and wondering about the wisdom of widespread inoculation for the flu, given that history. However, as it turns out, your risk of developing Guillaine-Barre syndrome from the flu shot is actually less than developing it from being infected with the flu.

Fri, 2009-10-30 20:14

#15

Tigana

pogge wrote:

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Obama Administration Launches Swine Flu Propaganda Blitz:

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15860

"to counter growing criticism from Scientific and Medical community"

One of the co-authors is listed as Dr. Gary Null. Would that be the same Gary Null who denies that HIV causes AIDS? (And if so, that "Dr." isn't medical.)

Pogge, this is a drift.

I am looking for proof of your claim that Null is an AIDS denialist. What I found so far - a 1994 essay on fascism in medicine - shows that he believes that AIDS and other pharmaceutical treatments are dangerous and kill people.

http://www.whale.to/a/null3.html

"So what we've got today, we've got arthritis, cancer, AIDS. Look, when I showed my documentary last week -- were any of you in the audience last week to see the documentary? Right? We didn't have a single doctor there. We didn't have a single "health-care" official. We had NO journalist from any major media there. And yet press releases were sent out. It was the first positive documentary ever done on AIDS. Every single person in there had a positive statement to say, and instead of all those people being DEAD, they were all alive and well and several were sero-converted from HIV positive to HIV negative. Now there is not a SINGLE PERSON that they can bring forward who has been on THEIR therapies, and I can bring home twelve hundred people who are alive and well.

That is how fascism exists in medicine. Deny. Control the press so that nobody's going to come to see what advances you've made. So it doesn't matter what advances you make. Who's going to pay attention to it? How is it going to be disseminated? Word of mouth? So they CONTROL it. But where did this come from?

I could show the same thing on cancer, on heart disease, on arthritis, on mental illness. I could take you out to the Brain Biocenter in New Jersey and show you people with schizophrenia and Alzheimer's who are getting improvements in depression by re-balancing their brain chemistry using natural substances. But that's going to threaten the enormous billion dollar psychiatric business.

And by the way, they want you to be so scientific? "Well Gary, of course we would accept these therapies if they were scientifically proven. Otherwise it keeps people from PROVEN therapies."

Fair enough. You're giving proven therapies in nursing homes? "Yes." All right, now, one percent of senior citizens have been diagnosed as psychotic. Why is it that fifty two percent of ALL nursing home patients are given anti-psychotic medication? That doesn't sound scientific to me.

That seems like a form of social control where you're keeping people from complaining. You're keeping them shut up. Now, why don't you go over and tell all these nursing homes and all these hospitals: Stop drugging people; the side effects are devastating.

And none of it's curative. None of it. You think electro-convulsive therapy is curative -- where you give a grand mal seizure in the brain so you permanently rupture and hemorrhage the brain so the person then forgets what they were depressed about? And that's the concept? Boy, that's a great concept, isn't it? Really advanced in science! My arm itches. I cut off my arm. It no longer itches!"

If you are getting information from Quackwatch, you should know that they are in more than a spot of difficulty.

http://www.quackpotwatch.org/

Gary Null is certainly healthier and aging better than Barrett and the Quackbusters.

Some think "slims" is a mineral deficiency, and it has been shown that supplementation with selenium helps the AIDS immune response.

http://aidsmap.com/en/news/1A45A664-23B6-427B-8C44-717A5F3A0509.asp

Thanks for another opportunity to get health information out there.

End of drift...

Fri, 2009-10-30 20:18

#16

Sineed

The folks on that "Quackpotwatch" site are so fervent, so eager to get out their message, they've dispensed entirely with proper grammar in English.

Fri, 2009-10-30 20:23

#17

pogge

Quote:
I am looking for proof of your claim that Null is an AIDS denialist.

How about [url=http://garynull.com/]the front page of his website[/url]?

Quote:
There was a time when Gary Null and just a few others opposed the HIV=AIDS=Death hypothesis.

We're done here. They don't pay me enough for this.

Fri, 2009-10-30 20:36

#18

Trevormkidd

I think it is still on the fence as to whether Gary Null is an HIV=AIDS denier. He has only put out a 2 hour documentary on the subject Desconstructing the Myth of Aids and wrote a lengthy book. He might have just been joking.

Fri, 2009-10-30 20:57

#19

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Sineed wrote:

The folks on that "Quackpotwatch" site are so fervent, so eager to get out their message, they've dispensed entirely with proper grammar in English.

The bad grammar is not the worst of it.

These gangster thugs are employing harrassment and intimidation tactics highly reminiscent of the anti-abortion groups that assassinate doctors and firebomb clinics:

Quote:
Health Freedom Fighters (sic!)...are now watching Barrett and his soldiers carefully. They've decided to put a stop to Barrett and company. Lists are being made of who the "Quackbuster Conspirators" are, what their function is, where they fit into the conspiracy, who they work for, who their associates are, where they live, and what their probable motives are. Their daily activities, as "Quackbusters," are being monitored, and documented.

Health leaders consider Barrett, and company, to be running a subversive organization working against the interests of America.

Fri, 2009-10-30 20:59

#20

Tigana

pogge wrote:

Quote:
I am looking for proof of your claim that Null is an AIDS denialist.

How about [url=http://garynull.com/]the front page of his website[/url]?

Quote:
There was a time when Gary Null and just a few others opposed the HIV=AIDS=Death hypothesis.

We're done here. They don't pay me enough for this.

Thanks, Pogge, then this should be the end of the drift. I don't see Stephen Lewis's name here, but I do see a lot of distinguished scientists - and Sky Gilbert.

http://www.gnhealth.com/dissidents_list.html

I know HIV+ people who won't take the drugs because of morbidity and mortality that result from them, and they are doing well with diet and herbs.

We continue to struggle for the truth.

Fri, 2009-10-30 21:00

#21

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quite a struggle, isn't it?

Fri, 2009-10-30 21:05

#22

Fidel

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Obama Administration Launches Swine Flu Propaganda Blitz:

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15860

Not only was the CDC's prediction and vaccination campaign for the 1976 flu season a total disaster, it also turned into a deadly scandal, witnessed across the United States on 60 Minutes when Dr. David Sencer, then head of the CDC, confirmed that the vaccine was never field tested, that there were only several reported incidents of H1N1 infection and none of these had been officially confirmed, and then lied about the CDC having no prior evidence that the swine flu vaccine could cause severe and permanent neurological damage. The end result from the 1976 debacle cost the government $3.5 billion in damages, two-thirds were for severe neurological injury and death directly due to the CDC's vaccination campaign.

The CDC doesn't seem to have a very good track record for predicting flu outbreaks.

Fri, 2009-10-30 21:10

#23

Fidel

[url=http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/a/aa011604a.htm]Why the Flu Vaccine Doesn't Work[/url]

A bit about immunology and biochemistry

Quote:
Bottom line: The flu vaccine varies in effectiveness from year-to-year. Even in a best-case scenario, it won't always protect against the flu. The CDC study didn't say that the vaccine didn't work; it says the vaccine didn't protect people from getting sick. Even with imperfect effectiveness, the vaccine is indicated for certain people. In my opinion, however, the vaccine isn't for everyone and certainly shouldn't be required for otherwise healthy people.

Fri, 2009-10-30 21:13

#24

Tigana

I bow to your superior knowledge of Null and your other health freedom opponents, M. Spector.

Canadians are in luck - the RCMP won't be empowered to come to our homes and inspect our belongings for contraband vitamins.

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2009/09/17/sept_16th_2009_bill_c6_...

Fri, 2009-10-30 22:23

#25

Trevormkidd

Tigana wrote:
Canadians are in luck - the RCMP won't be empowered to come to our homes and inspect our belongings for contraband vitamins.

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2009/09/17/sept_16th_2009_bill_c6_...

Victory! A bill that never had a thing to do with natural health products still doesn't have a thing to do with natural health products? Wow that is some amazing tilting at windmills. Don't worry, you are still free to not have anyway of knowing if your natural health products contain what the label says. And that freedom to be the victim of fraud is worth fighting for.

Fri, 2009-10-30 22:29

#26

Fidel

Whose fault is that if crooks can operate under the noses of the law and get away with it? Is it the same people telling us to get flu shots because they've bought shitloads of the stuff from their friends in big pharma lobbying them?

Fri, 2009-10-30 22:34

#27

Sineed

Fidel wrote:

[url=http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/a/aa011604a.htm]Why the Flu Vaccine Doesn't Work[/url]

A bit about immunology and biochemistry

Quote:
Bottom line: The flu vaccine varies in effectiveness from year-to-year. Even in a best-case scenario, it won't always protect against the flu. The CDC study didn't say that the vaccine didn't work; it says the vaccine didn't protect people from getting sick. Even with imperfect effectiveness, the vaccine is indicated for certain people. In my opinion, however, the vaccine isn't for everyone and certainly shouldn't be required for otherwise healthy people.

Why the person who wrote that isn't qualified to make that judgement call:

Quote:
Dr. Helmenstine has bachelor of arts degrees in physics and mathematics with a minor in chemistry from Hastings College in Nebraska and a doctorate of philosophy in biomedical sciences from the University of Tennessee at Knoxville.

Fri, 2009-10-30 23:02

#28

Fidel

Sineed, did you read this part of her resume?:

Quote:

Experience:

Anne has taught chemistry, biology, and physics at the high school, college, and graduate level. In her doctoral work, Anne developed ultra-sensitive chemical detection and medical diagnostic tests. She has worked abstracting/indexing diverse scientific literature for the Department of Energy. She presently works as a freelance writer and scientific consultant. She enjoys adapting lab-based science projects so that they can be performed safely at home.

And from NDPP's link to Globalresearch.ca:

Quote:
Dr. Anthony Morris, a distinguished virologist and former Chief Vaccine Office at the U.S. Federal Drug Administration (FDA), states that "There is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza" and that "The producers of these vaccines know they are worthless, but they go on selling them anyway."

They go on selling them anyway. Why would they do that?

Fri, 2009-10-30 23:02

#29

Unionist

Fidel - honestly - Helmenstine is no kind of authority. Surely the arguments can be made without quoting someone who is employed by about.com and who calls herself [b]"Doctor"[/b] because she has a PhD!

Fri, 2009-10-30 23:20

#30

pogge

One more.

If you do a little poking around you'll find that Dr. Morris has worked with Gary Null in the past on the AIDS denial theory. Apparently HIV was around for 40 or 50 years in an icebox. Or something. The only mentions I can find of the good Dr. Morris are on sites that specialize in conspiracy theories or in articles that get basic facts wrong such as suggesting that the swine flu vaccine contains live virus (which it doesn't). Everybody with an anti-vaccine theory drags out the same two quotes from him and refers to Morris as eminent or distinguished.

As somebody pointed out recently, it only takes a minute to post this stuff and it can take a lot of time to properly rebut it. Not my job. As I said earlier, they don't pay me enough for this so I'm on another break. If babble wants to make a home for this stuff, so be it. I'll check back in a few months or so and see how it's going.

Fri, 2009-10-30 23:24

#31

Fidel

I was hoping someone more qualified would comment on the Anthony Morris quote. Apparently he fooled enough people to qualify himself as a virologist.

Fri, 2009-10-30 23:24

#32

Trevormkidd

pogge wrote:

One more.

If you do a little poking around you'll find that Dr. Morris has worked with Gary Null in the past on the AIDS denial theory.

The quote Fidel posted is also from 33 years ago.

Fri, 2009-10-30 23:33

#33

Fidel

Trevormkidd wrote:

pogge wrote:

One more.

If you do a little poking around you'll find that Dr. Morris has worked with Gary Null in the past on the AIDS denial theory.

The quote Fidel posted is also from 33 years ago.

And that was around the same time as the swine flu scandal in the US with $1.3 billion in lawsuits. Insurance companies refused to insure the drug companies because they knew that proper testing of the vaccine was not done.

And there is a similar quote about the effectiveness of flu vaccines from Albert Sabin, developer of the first oral polio vaccine. Can you manage to smear him, too?

Fri, 2009-10-30 23:36

#34

Unionist

Fidel - enough.

Fri, 2009-10-30 23:41

#35

Fidel

I would like very much for our in-house pharmacist to comment on the Morris and Sabin quotes regarding the efficacy of influenza vaccines, that's all. And I'd like to thank the babble inquisition for bearing with me.

Fri, 2009-10-30 23:46

#36

Fidel

And your expertise in the area of virology is?

Fri, 2009-10-30 23:51

#37

Trevormkidd

Fidel wrote:
And your expertise in the area of virology is?

Fidel, I have no intentions of giving out personal information to conspiracy theorists on message boards. I personally think the requests towards several people such as pogge on the other thread for such information, and disclosures of who we work for from people such as tigana is beyond unacceptable. If you have an issue with what I have posted then refute it.

Fri, 2009-10-30 23:55

#38

Trevormkidd

Fidel wrote:
And that was around the same time as the swine flu scandal in the US with $1.3 billion in lawsuits. Insurance companies refused to insure the drug companies because they knew that proper testing of the vaccine was not done.

And there is a similar quote about the effectiveness of flu vaccines from Albert Sabin, developer of the first oral polio vaccine. Can you manage to smear him, too?

Fidel I did not smear Morris. I pointed out that Morris' quote was 33 years old and therefore a claim that no flu vaccine has been effective as of yet or whatever the exact quote was is extremely out of date. If he still holds the same position he has been silent as far as I can tell. I have no idea if he is still alive and no site seems to have a single mention of his position on vaccines that is less than about 33 years old.

And inproper testing for a vaccine program 33 years ago has little relevance to a vaccine program today that has been properly tested.

Sabin has been dead for 16 years. Neither you, nor I, have any idea what his position would be on the current vaccine.

Fri, 2009-10-30 23:59

#39

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Trevormkidd wrote:

Fidel, I have no intentions of giving out personal information to conspiracy theorists on message boards. I personally think the requests towards several people such as pogge on the other thread for such information, and disclosures of who we work for from people such as tigana is beyond unacceptable.

And if you read post #19 above you will know why these kinds of disclosure are not a good idea.

Sat, 2009-10-31 00:04

#40

Fidel

Trevormkidd wrote:

Fidel wrote:
And your expertise in the area of virology is?

Fidel, I have no intentions of giving out personal information to conspiracy theorists on message boards. I personally think the requests towards several people such as pogge on the other thread for such information, and disclosures of who we work for from people such as tigana is beyond unacceptable. If you have an issue with what I have posted then refute it.

I have asked no one for any credentials. Sineed is a pharmacist, however, and I've already said that I would respect her opinion on the matter. And I really wasn't under the illusion that you are a virologist.

Sat, 2009-10-31 00:04

#41

ennir

Trevormkidd wrote:

Fidel wrote:
And that was around the same time as the swine flu scandal in the US with $1.3 billion in lawsuits. Insurance companies refused to insure the drug companies because they knew that proper testing of the vaccine was not done.

And there is a similar quote about the effectiveness of flu vaccines from Albert Sabin, developer of the first oral polio vaccine. Can you manage to smear him, too?

Fidel I did not smear Morris. I pointed out that Morris' quote was 33 years old and therefore a claim that no flu vaccine has been effective as of yet or whatever the exact quote was is extremely out of date. If he still holds the same position he has been silent as far as I can tell. I have no idea if he is still alive and no site seems to have a single mention of his position on vaccines that is less than about 33 years old.

And inproper testing for a vaccine program 33 years ago has little relevance to a vaccine program today that has been properly tested.

Sabin has been dead for 16 years. Neither you, nor I, have any idea what his position would be on the current vaccine.

Thanks Fidel.

As to, "And improper testing for a vaccine program 33 years ago has little relevence to a vaccine program today that has been properly tested". Has it? I thought there was a real rush to market with this vaccine given the newness of the virus, what proper testing has been done?

Sat, 2009-10-31 00:10

#42

Trevormkidd

ennir wrote:
As to, "And improper testing for a vaccine program 33 years ago has little relevence to a vaccine program today that has been properly tested". Has it? I thought there was a real rush to market with this vaccine given the newness of the virus, what proper testing has been done?

The EXACT same testing has been done on this flu vaccine as is done on every flu vaccine. Claims of rushing and lack of testing have no validity, but will continue to be made by the usual unreliable sources.

Sat, 2009-10-31 00:23

#43

Trevormkidd

Fidel wrote:
I have asked no one for any credentials. Sineed is a pharmacist, however, and I've already said that I would respect her opinion on the matter. And I really wasn't under the illusion that you are a virologist.

I am not a virologist. I have on several times on this forum referred to Sineed as the expert on pharmacology here. My education is in the sciences and emergency medicine. I have taken virology. I will offer no more personal information due to instances like post 45 and 50 on this thread

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/body-and-soul/canadian-h1n1-vaccine-will-have-mercury-it

Where it appears to me that the poster searches for information on people she can't debate with and that is creepy.

Sat, 2009-10-31 00:28

#44

Tigana

Trevormkidd wrote:

I have no intentions of giving out personal information to conspiracy theorists on message boards. I personally think the requests towards several people such as pogge on the other thread for such information, and disclosures of who we work for from people such as tigana is beyond unacceptable. If you have an issue with what I have posted then refute it.

Trevor, where did I ask you to disclose who you work for?

Sat, 2009-10-31 00:33

#45

Trevormkidd

Tigana wrote:
Trevor, where did I ask you to disclose who you work for?

You have asked people to disclose such information. Not me, although in June you implied that I was paid by the drug companies to post here.

Sat, 2009-10-31 00:34

#46

ennir

Trevormkidd wrote:

ennir wrote:
As to, "And improper testing for a vaccine program 33 years ago has little relevence to a vaccine program today that has been properly tested". Has it? I thought there was a real rush to market with this vaccine given the newness of the virus, what proper testing has been done?

The EXACT same testing has been done on this flu vaccine as is done on every flu vaccine. Claims of rushing and lack of testing have no validity, but will continue to be made by the usual unreliable sources.

From the CBC, "The final picture of how the vaccine works won't be clear until well after Canada's largest immunization program is underway." http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/10/20/h1n1-vaccine-clinical-trials-c...

Sat, 2009-10-31 00:34

#47

Fidel

Trevormkidd wrote:
Where it appears to me that the poster searches for information on people she can't debate with and that is creepy.

Well I won't be wading into that one. Apparently you are disappointed that she found pogge's blog which he carefully nailed up on the internet somewhere and you've also frequented under the same name?

Sat, 2009-10-31 00:41

#48

Tigana

Trevormkidd wrote:

Tigana wrote:
Canadians are in luck - the RCMP won't be empowered to come to our homes and inspect our belongings for contraband vitamins.

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2009/09/17/sept_16th_2009_bill_c6_...

Victory! A bill that never had a thing to do with natural health products still doesn't have a thing to do with natural health products? Wow that is some amazing tilting at windmills. Don't worry, you are still free to not have anyway of knowing if your natural health products contain what the label says. And that freedom to be the victim of fraud is worth fighting for.

Trevor, you didn't read the transcript or bill, did you?

"Food and drug inspectors have fewer powers than those proposed in Bill C-6. If that does not frighten us all, it should."

"Honourable senators, clause 20 is about articles. Clause 23 says an inspector may seize "a thing" under the act. I ask, what is a "thing," and go back to the definition section. There is no definition of a "thing," therefore, the inspector can go in and do all these things with respect to articles. Then we go to the procedure following seizure. The inspector seizes an article and ends up with a thing.

There are obvious drafting problems here that must be looked at. I point out a few of these things found through a reading of the act. That is what we do in this place. We read the acts. It is good that we read them because this one was somewhat rushed in the other place in June. It came here in late June.

Let us look at subclause 20(4):

An inspector who is carrying out their functions. . . .

That should be "his or her functions."

. . . or any person accompanying them may enter on or pass through or over private property, and they are not liable for doing so.

Inspectors do not need a warrant, or reasonable or probably grounds that something is happening. They can go over private property willy-nilly and they will not be responsible for any problems that they cause.

We are moving along nicely, honourable senators, and I thank you for bearing with me. I am almost at clause 30, which is about halfway through the bill.

I will speak about the Inspectors' Orders, honourable senators. The interesting thing about these Inspectors' Orders is that they are not considered to be statutory instruments. We can have statutory instruments. The honourable Senator Banks has raised this issue many times. Clause 64 states:

For greater certainty, orders made under this Act, except under section 37, are not statutory instruments. . . .

We do not know what the guidelines are because the guidelines will not be published in the Canada Gazette. They will not go before the Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations because they are exempted."

Civil liberties were at stake.

Sat, 2009-10-31 00:50

#49

ennir

From the same CBC article, "Worldwide trials of the vaccine began in September, mostly small groups of adults. Canadian vaccine trials started this week and the results won't be available until next year."

Sat, 2009-10-31 00:53

#50

Trevormkidd

Tigana wrote:
Trevor, you didn't read the transcript or bill, did you?

"Food and drug inspectors have fewer powers than those proposed in Bill C-6. If that does not frighten us all, it should."

I am not sure why any of that matters. Natural health products are not covered under bill c-6 or under the Food and Drug Act at the moment. They were going to include NHPs in the update of the FDA in bill C-51 last year but it did not get through the legislature in time. Nor did bill c-51 talk about seizing people's vitamins - all it did was place the same regulations on NHPs as currently exist on food (the horror). In fact the posted claims of language in the bill to "take away our herbs and supplements"was in almost every case the exact same language as has existed for food under the old act for a long, long time.

Sat, 2009-10-31 00:53

#51

ennir

I believe I fixed the link, at least it now works for me, and it seems to be saying pretty clearly that these are trials and the results will be known next year.

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