H1N1 panic and stampede at the vaccination centers?

Why do you link to random blogs? And if you read the blog, he talks utter rubbish."Multiplying the incidence rate by the case fatality rate suggests that if you are generally well, the odds of dying of swine flu are less than 1 in a million" So who is "generally well"?  15 have died in BC from a population of 4 million (3 in the last 7 days)  so I guess very few of us are "generally well".

Tigana wrote:

http://healthspanlife.wordpress.com/2009/11/02/swine-flu-damage-update-1...

From the page:

'If 5 deaths there soon after the swine flu vaccine, out of a million people vaccinated the past 17 days,  are co-incidental - a vaccine-related death rate of 1:200  000. – one can equally argue that 4 deaths with the swine flu in a month in a population of 9.2 million is not a causal relationship but co-incidence of death from other causes and not from the passing mild swine flu.

....

Trumpeting “pandemic” is a great distraction for governments, presidents and agencies  beset with insoluble political and corruption scandals as are so many.'

 

Language a bit wonky, but good points. Don't panic.

 

I see in Alberta, the Flames hockey stars, their coaches and staff, jumped past the 5 year olds, the athsmatics, those with blood disorders, and succeptable first nations to grab early vaccinations.  Well done!  Anything to keep healthy and beat the rest of the teams, I guess.

So what happens if a few kids die of H1N1 in Alberta in the next couple of weeks?

Remind quoted from some blog that you quoted from to get her figures.  15 died from the flu in BC vconfirmed so far.  I did not hear about 15 deaths from the vaccine, did you?  With a million people getting vaccinated in the next month, who is expecting 40 or 50 deaths from the vaccine?

I spent 4 days in hospital 2 weeks ago with pneumonia.  Now I quote from the bc health authoritys "Since Oct. 27, there have been 162 new severe cases of H1N1 identified in B.C., with three new deaths"

So lets be gentle and assume 4 days in hospital per person (like me). 162 by 4 is 648 hospital days in the last week..  Now, lets so the math, 648 hospital days versus 162 shots of vaccine.  

Which is cheaper?

Brian

Tigana wrote:

remind wrote:

So more have already died then from the vaccination they received, than have from the flu itself, on a ratio basis.

Thanks, Brian, the site also links to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_by_country

Worth looking at closely. Those are our dollars, after all.

How much did the flu campaign cost so far, anyway?

 

I thought you got orders from the moderators to stop posting irrelevent stuff in the threads?

Tigana wrote:

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

There's lots of crazy stuff on H1N1 floating around out there. Here's some more:

The Intentional Murder of Native People for Profit:

http://margotbworldnews.com/archives/2009/Nov/Nov1/native.html

 

Kevin would do better in this case focus on the marketing of psychoactive drugs to Natves, Orientals and others who lack the enzymes to process them. However, read biology documents from almost any defense department in the developed world and you wlll find racial targeting through disease as a warfare technique discussed.

 

Well for starters, I have not got independent confirmation "that over a hundred people are sick from tamiflu vaccination and the sickness is spreading".

So i checked you words and someone spammed this story across canada in SEPTEMBER with the same wording in hundreds of posts!   And it went viral. And guess what, if you read more, there were actually only 4 or 6 cases of sick people. And who knows what caused those cases? Might be just random sick people.

Why not check with the people in Ahousaht now?  See how many are still sick or how many died since the 22nd of september when the story first got spammed across the net?

http://www.rabble.ca/comment/1066917/What-posted-begin   is the denouncing of the stuff on babble itself.

I am not sure why they let you get away with these repeat offences.

Tigana wrote:

Brian White wrote:

I thought you got orders from the moderators to stop posting irrelevent stuff in the threads?

Tigana wrote:

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

There's lots of crazy stuff on H1N1 floating around out there. Here's some more:

The Intentional Murder of Native People for Profit:

http://margotbworldnews.com/archives/2009/Nov/Nov1/native.html

 

Kevin would do better in this case focus on the marketing of psychoactive drugs to Natves, Orientals and others who lack the enzymes to process them. However, read biology documents from almost any defense department in the developed world and you wlll find racial targeting through disease as a warfare technique discussed.

 

In what way is NDPP's post irrelevant to the topic of H1N1 panic?

Remind forgot to mention that a large part of being sick from flu is due to the body disposing of dead cells that the virus has killed. 

  In the case of the pandemic virus it often kills cells deep in the lungs that the normal flu does not harm. (She did not mention that either). And she speeded up the mutation of the virus in her mind to suggest that vaccination was useless. Here is something to concider. If you get vaccinated, and the vaccine prevents you from getting sick, it also prevents the virus from using your body to produce a mutation, doesn't it?  I believe the biggest danger for mutation is if you get normal flu and swine flu at the same time.  Thats when the viruses can mutually attack the same cell at the same time and accidently mix their dna.   Note that combining 2 flu viruses is the big danger.  The mutations in the average human victim are relatively minor.

Politics101 wrote:

Thanks Remind for that post about viruses and how the body works - it is a lot more informative than what some of the other are posting here.

 

 

No, it is available on wikipedia.  Wikipedia is constantly reviewed and there is editoral rieview too.  (That is how it differs from your links)

You seem more interested in creating panic and creating doubt than in informing people.

Would that be a correct assumption?

Spreading old discredited links suggesting that the new vaccine will kill first nations is contemptable in my opinion. And you made no effort to correct your mistakes.

Probably for genetic reasons and other secondary reasons, first nations are much more likely to die from this flu than white people.

That is already a matter of public record.  Serious illness and death is visiting FN much more than others with this new flu.

Fearmongering about the vaccine might  cause many poor fn people to refuse the vaccine.

Correct?

So if you are successful in your misinformatinon campaign,

what happens? 

Are you TRYING to get people killed?

Seems that way to me.

Brian

Tigana wrote:

Brian, in post #16 you wrote

"I read that H1N1 is part bird flu, part pig flu and part human flu and only very recently jumped to humans from pigs."

Is that disinformation? Is that a conspiracy theory? Or is it just panic?

 

And thanks, remind, for an informative and enjoyable introduction to viruses. 

Viruses..."Life, Jim, but not as we know it."

Your garbage was completely discredited in babble over a month ago.  How DARE you repost it. Here is the text of the discrediting post seeing as you are unwilling to click on the link that I gave earlier.

You are knowingly spreading lies in this thread. In this instance lies can kill people.

[quote=Tigana]

Post flagged, for same reason as attack on remind.

Also, Arnett post was by NDPP. /quote]

September 29, 2009 - 8:36pm
#1

What is posted to begin this thread is a revised version of what Annett first sent out. This is what he said at first:

> Last week, many of the aboriginal people in the remote west coast village of Ahousaht
> were innoculated with the tamiflu vaccine.

Note: there is no such thing as a "Tamiflu vaccine"

> Today, over a hundred of them are sick, and the sickness is spreading. In the same
> week, body bags were sent to similarly remote native reserves in northern Manitoba
> that have also received the tamiflu vaccine.

Again, there is no such thing as a "Tamiflu vaccine".

> On the face of things, it appears that flu vaccinations are causing a sickness that is
> being deliberately aimed at aboriginal people across Canada, and this sickness will
> be fatal: [...]

He went on to write:

> So it's small wonder that these reserves are the places being targeted first
> to be injected with untested, unsafe and potentially lethal flu vaccines.

Annett was tapping into anti-vaccine hysteria (an unfortunate phenomenon that is drowning out any reasonable discussion of potential problems with the H1N1 vaccine) and the terrible history of genocide against indigenous peoples. Unfortunately, what he's doing in this case is whipping up hysteria about something that *never even happened*. Not only is there no such thing as a "Tamiflu vaccine", There was no H1N1 vaccination in Ahousaht - something even Annett appears to acknowledge at this point. There was routine treatment of flu with Tamiflu.

When Annett was roundly criticized for telling people that aboriginal people were being murdered by the administration of a vaccine that *doesn't even exist*, he just revised his story - suddenly it was Tamiflu (a medicine that bears no similarity to a vaccine of any sort) that might be making people sick. Or maybe it was another antiviral. Or maybe it was a regular seasonal flu shot. He should have had the courage and principle to retract what he had said, but he did not.

Drawing on the perfectly reasonable fears of indigenous people that they might be targeted for testing of unsafe new drugs, playing into the hands of anti-vaccine wingnuts, his article has circulated all over the internet. Because he does not have the principle to retract what he said, he is actually making the problem worse: he is now telling people that not only should they be afraid of the H1N1 vaccine; they should be afraid of regular flu vaccines, and about the standard, effective first-line treatment for flu (Tamiflu).  Many people could die because of this.

What Annett is doing is bad reporting, bad science, and bad politics. It is SUPREMELY irresponsible. I am absolutely furious about this - and my fury comes from my solidarity with indigenous people in their struggles and with full acknowledgement of the ongoing genocide of indigenous people in Canada.

O, ok, guess the logans run jibe was before your time. 

Yes indeed this is an informative thread.

Refute refute refute.

Misinformation overload.  I cannot handle it without help.

Remind does a whole Virus explanation without even mentioning that they kill cells!

It is indeed time to quit.

Michelle wrote:

Brian, chill out.  If you think someone's wrong, refute them, don't attack them and tell them to leave or demand that moderators ban them.  People who read babble are smart enough to read the posts and decide for themselves.

Stop attacking people.