Why oh why can the opening post never be edited?
Bnai Brith ad foments hatred and trivializes the Holocaust
Thu, 2009-11-12 17:02
#1
Bnai Brith ad foments hatred and trivializes the Holocaust
Thu, 2009-11-12 17:05
#2
[url=http://jta.org/news/article/2009/11/12/1009147/bnai-brith-ad-raises-surv... Brith ad raises survivors' ire[/url]:
A full-page newspaper ad placed by B'nai Brith Canada that equated radical Islam with Nazism has raised the ire of Holocaust survivors and a group that promotes Jewish-Muslim ties.
Headlined "The Unholy Alliance," the ad, which ran in the Nov. 9 edition of the pro-Israel National Post, noted the anniversary of Kristallnacht, the widespread pogroms in Germany on the night on Nov. 8-9, 1938. It showed a photograph of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem meeting with Adolf Hitler, and noted the "common objectives of Nazism and radical Islam: Killing Canadian men and women on the battlefield, incitement of children through schools and media, annihilation of world Jewry, and subjugation of every one else, [and] world domination."The ad solicited tax-deductible donations to B'nai B'rith Canada.
The topic of open line radio shows and hundreds of blog postings, the ad drew an irate response from the group Canadian Jewish Holocaust Survivors. "We survivors have fought everybody that tries to trivialize the Shoah. We get very, very angry when it is done by Jewish leaders. I think that they should know better," said the organization's co-president, Sidney Zoltak.
It is "horrible for a survivor to hear that anybody is compared to the evil of the leaders of Nazism," Zoltak said, but added: "We can see clearly the danger of extremism in the Muslim world. We have to be vigilant. We know what can happen when we become indifferent. [But] to compare the situation between now and then is not healthy. I'm upset about it."
Here is the [url=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DfCoy_kQh08/SvimLqkykHI/AAAAAAAABPo/Pybp5ZU--l... disgusting ad in question[/url]
Thu, 2009-11-12 17:20
#3
Freedom of expression at its finest.
Thu, 2009-11-12 17:40
#4
My life would have been happier if I'd never seen that ad, LP. These rich comfortable scum who never felt anti-semitism in their lives... If Hitler came here they'd be lining up to staff the [i]Judenräte[/i]. They have nothing in common with the Jewish people.
Thu, 2009-11-12 18:51
#5
"Responsible Jewish advocacy," my ass.
Fri, 2009-11-13 14:04
#6
My neighbour who survived Auschwitz showed me the add this afternoon . She was visibly shaking with rage and shame. She wanted to know how a Jewish organization could betray Holocaust survivors. She said to me that this ad was far more hurtful to her than any attempts by "meshuganas" (Yiddish for crazy people) to deny the Holocaust. I agree.
Fri, 2009-11-13 14:47
#7
Jaku please tell your neighbour that B'nai Brith is no longer seen as part of the mainstream Jewish community. It more and more is seen as extreme and this will only cement that understanding.
Fri, 2009-11-13 14:51
#8
Frustrated Mess
This ad is reminiscent of the "Jewish Conspiracy" propaganda that has fed anti-semitism and hatred across the world. Such propaganda has always been employed by racial supremacists.
Fri, 2009-11-13 15:28
#9
And Canada's PM is their biggest cheerleader.
Fri, 2009-11-13 16:16
#10
bagkitty
Note to self: when someone says the link is disgusting, take their word for it. Now I have to go scour my eyes with lye.
Sat, 2009-11-14 02:30
#11
Diogenes
My neighbour who survived Auschwitz showed me the add this afternoon . She was visibly shaking with rage and shame. She wanted to know how a Jewish organization could betray Holocaust survivors. She said to me that this ad was far more hurtful to her than any attempts by "meshuganas" (Yiddish for crazy people) to deny the Holocaust. I agree.
I never thought I would say this but thank-you Jaku, for posting this.
The ad is certainly repulsive and disgusting. In a perverse way, I'm kind of glad that B'nia Brith of Canada ran the ad. They did more to discredit their own organization, and in a most spectacular way, than any of us could have achieved.
Sat, 2009-11-14 10:54
#12
remind
Is this not hate fostering?
Sat, 2009-11-14 10:57
#13
Yes. And the B'nai Brith runs something comically called the "Anti-Defamation League".
Sat, 2009-11-14 11:11
#14
remind
really do not know what to say, other than I can hardly perceive that my eyes would be seeing such, in this day and age, but then on second reflection, perhaps I am not as surprised as I thought.
And what is left is the horrifying realization that it does not matter if the ad is pulled and comments made against it, or even a law suit. That conceptual framework has been put forth and is thus an image in people's minds who have viewed it. When they hear/read Islam or Muslim, that image, or parts of it, are what they are going to see in their first mental image created when one reads/hears a words.
Sat, 2009-11-14 17:36
#15
This ad will have some appeal among major segments of the Jewish population in Toronto who will believe just about anything that B'Nai Brith has to say.
Sun, 2009-11-15 09:03
#16
To the best of my knowledge the ADL does not exist in Canada. In the USA the ADL seperated from Bnai Brith years ago I thought.Yes. And the B'nai Brith runs something comically called the "Anti-Defamation League".
Sun, 2009-11-15 09:26
#17
To the best of my knowledge the ADL does not exist in Canada. In the USA the ADL seperated from Bnai Brith years ago I thought.
Who knows. BB Canada runs the [url=http://www.bnaibrith.ca/league/league.htm][color=red]"League for Human Right[s]winger[/s]s"[/color][/url], and they think that they are:
... working in co-operative association with the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith ...
It's not uncommon for disreputable outfits to have fluid corporate connections.
Sun, 2009-11-15 18:42
#18
I know that Stephen Scheinberg, who is listed as national chair of the League for Human Rights, [url=http://www.vcn.bc.ca/outlook/current_issue/Jul-Aug%2008/Bnai%20Brith.pdf... Bnai Brith in protest of its rightwing policies[/url]
Sun, 2009-11-15 18:51
#19
Tigana
And Canada's PM is their biggest cheerleader.
Perhaps, while preparing for REACH FOR THE TOP, Harper did not learn that Abraham is the founding father in the Jewish, Christian and Islamic religions.
Sun, 2009-11-15 19:37
#20
The image I retained from the 1940s of a benevolent organization trying to win friends among other cultures has just been violently replaced. Only a profound insularity could produce something that so clearly will rebound on them.
quote:
"This ad will have some appeal among major segments of the Jewish population in Toronto who will believe just about anything that B'Nai Brith has to say. "
How large a segment, and from what factions? I had always assumed that a history of exposure to cultural bias and potential threat led to heightened attempts to understand social and political reality. Am I just speaking out of my own experience there?
Sun, 2009-11-15 20:02
#21
Don't jump on me for asking this please but why does everyone here seem to hate Israel or have a huge chip on their shoulder about them?
What's Israel doing?
Sun, 2009-11-15 20:42
#22
What a wonderful ad, completely ignoring the fact that many jewish groups offered or did work with the Nazis for their own purposes (even offering military help in Palestine)
Sun, 2009-11-15 21:02
#23
Nodisrespect intended George. I know the topic isn't Israel, i just see it pop up SO much in the forum the question poppd in my head at the moment so I asked it. I can delete my post though if you think it's better asked somewhere else?
Sun, 2009-11-15 21:05
#24
Don't jump on me for asking this please but why does everyone here seem to hate Israel or have a huge chip on their shoulder about them?
What's Israel doing?
Can it really be, Sparky, that you don't realize the topic is not Israel, with its multiplicity of opinions, but just a single propagandizing agency that lies and "shoots Israel in the foot" in the process?(I probably put that badly in a search for simplification.)
Sun, 2009-11-15 21:07
#25
Don't you think the good people of Israel deserve to be defended in this fashion? Your question suggests we have to try harder.
Sun, 2009-11-15 21:09
#26
I hope you will re-think this ugly post. Jewish groups as you put it were mostly forced to "work" for the nazis in the most inhumane way one could think. They were enslaved, placed in ghettos, starved and then herded off to death camps. The story of what some Jews may have done under these horrible conditions is far different than your ugly suggestion that the jews "worked and "offered" to work for nazis.What a wonderful ad, completely ignoring the fact that many jewish groups offered or did work with the Nazis for their own purposes (even offering military help in Palestine)
Sun, 2009-11-15 22:32
#27
Don't jump on me for asking this please but why does everyone here seem to hate Israel or have a huge chip on their shoulder about them?
I don't think anybody hates Israel. It doesn't really make sense to hate a country. However, when the Israeli military does this sort of thing:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2009/jan/03/israelandthepalestinians
it tends to get people's knickers in a twist.
Sun, 2009-11-15 22:52
#28
I hope you will re-think this ugly post. Jewish groups as you put it were mostly forced to "work" for the nazis in the most inhumane way one could think. They were enslaved, placed in ghettos, starved and then herded off to death camps. The story of what some Jews may have done under these horrible conditions is far different than your ugly suggestion that the jews "worked and "offered" to work for nazis.What a wonderful ad, completely ignoring the fact that many jewish groups offered or did work with the Nazis for their own purposes (even offering military help in Palestine)
Look it up. The Stern gang tried to enlist the help of the Nazis to overthrow British rule in Palestine. And I did not mean the ones worked to death but the ones that ran things in the Ghettos or i Hungary for example where they bargained other jewish lives for their own.
But mainly I was referring to the Stern gang and other Jewish resistance groups. Just like some muslim groups
http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/zionist_collaboration_with_the_nazis.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#Contact_with_Nazi_authorities
Mon, 2009-11-16 07:39
#29
We are in the end not in a position to judge. The nazis were carrying out their plan to murder all the world's jews. There was little world jewry could do but sit helplessly by and watch. Some took action (ie Stern) that by standards 70 years later were questionable but context here (trying to save lives) needs to be part of the mix.
As for the "Judenrat" yes there were cases of individual selfish judenrat members doing what was best for them. There were also more much more cases of courage of Judenrat doing all they could under inhuman conditions to save whatever lives possible.
Simply put You, bacchus or anyone else is not in a position to judge. To suggest as you do that Jews were willingly cooperative is plain wrong and insensitive to the highest degree imaginable.
Mon, 2009-11-16 08:12
#30
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
Well, Bacchus, it would seem you've managed to derail the thread, and put the likes of Sparky and Jaku on the moral high ground. Not a particularly impressive showing, I'm afraid.
Mon, 2009-11-16 08:32
#31
Look this thread is too important to derail. I have made myself more than clear on this ad. However no one should stand in moral judgement of Holocaust survivors. It was one of the most evil times in our history. Sometimes its better to remain silent than expose a deep ignorance.
Mon, 2009-11-16 11:50
#32
What a wonderful ad, completely ignoring the fact that many jewish groups offered or did work with the Nazis for their own purposes (even offering military help in Palestine)
What an awful thing to say. You think*that* is the most offensive thing about the Bnai Brith ad? For me, it's the trivializing of the Nazi holocaust.
Mon, 2009-11-16 12:07
#33
Well, Bacchus, it would seem you've managed to derail the thread, and put the likes of Sparky and Jaku on the moral high ground. Not a particularly impressive showing, I'm afraid.
How do you figure?
You don't find me impressive? I'm hurt.
Mon, 2009-11-16 12:09
#34
.
Mon, 2009-11-16 12:10
#35
Yeah, Bacchus, I've been trying to stay out of this, but saying "the Jews were just as bad as the Muslims" isn't the most respectful reply to a vicious Islamophobic ad which abuses the Nazi genocide victims by invoking their memory in the service of racism.
Mon, 2009-11-16 13:31
#36
No but a ad about a figure who was NOT the ruling muslim priest (and there isn't one) being representative of all muslims for doing deals with Nazis is as absurd as making an ad showing the Stern gang trying to make deals with the nazis as representative of all jews and showing them to be the ruling priest for judasim (which they are not)
Mon, 2009-11-16 16:36
#37
Bacchus, Im unsure why you just cannot admit your error in judgement. When both Unionist and jaku agree that you are wrong...you KNOW you are wrong!!
Mon, 2009-11-16 17:38
#38
No but a ad about a figure who was NOT the ruling muslim priest (and there isn't one) being representative of all muslims for doing deals with Nazis is as absurd as making an ad showing the Stern gang trying to make deals with the nazis as representative of all jews and showing them to be the ruling priest for judasim (which they are not)
Well, I have to agree with that.
Bacchus, Im unsure why you just cannot admit your error in judgement. When both Unionist and jaku agree that you are wrong...you KNOW you are wrong!!
See, Bacchus - that's why I didn't want to get involved in this sidebar...
Mon, 2009-11-16 18:03
#39
Look it up. The Stern gang tried to enlist the help of the Nazis to overthrow British rule in Palestine. And I did not mean the ones worked to death but the ones that ran things in the Ghettos or i Hungary for example where they bargained other jewish lives for their own.
And the IRA [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_%E2%80%93_Abwehr_coll... with the Nazis[/url] from 1937 to as late as 1944. It seems the Brits were hated by more than just a few ethnic groups.
There were Jews who fled Europe to the East, and some joined the Red Army as partisans and fought the Nazis. The Stalinists discovered that there were isolated pockets of resistance and tried to supply them during the war. These were the Jews who couldn't afford to buy there way out of Europe and the Eastern front. There was an excellent HNN documentary about how 50, 000 red army soldiers and Jewish partisanis turned tables on the Nazis at Leningrad, one of the events said to mark the decline of the Nazi's military fortunes during barbarossa. [url=http://www.russiajournal.com/node/6223]Birobidzhan[/url], the first Jewish homeland.
Mon, 2009-11-16 21:13
#40
Sorry prophit b ut unionist is right when he agrees with me 
Rare I admit but how can it be wrong when it feels so right.
I do admit my first post didnt explain it well
Mon, 2009-11-16 22:15
#41
Right is always wrong.
Tue, 2009-11-17 08:46
#42
Bacchus, you have explained nothing other than you have generalized your position that jews cooperated and aided the Nazis. I still hold that this is a shameful view.
Tue, 2009-11-17 08:56
#43
Although, I think Bacchus comments were awkward and thread drift, there is a lively historical debate about the role of the Judenrate and some of their individual members.
Tue, 2009-11-17 09:03
#44
Let's move on, shall we?
Tue, 2009-11-17 09:27
#45
Is there really any place to move on with this thread? The poster is disgusting. The misuse of history is abonimable. The modern day conclusions specious. A study of the evolution of B'nai Brith Canada over time would probably be interesting. Given my cademic background I am more aware of their work in the 1930s and 40s.
Tue, 2009-11-17 10:35
#46
Is it a creation of the 1930s, Caissa? Just seemed to do "good work" in the neighbourhood in the 40s.
Tue, 2009-11-17 10:41
#47
No, founded in 1875.
Tue, 2009-11-17 10:48
#48
Did it then function as a "service club" of local business people and professionals (its 1940s role) from some time after 1875?
Tue, 2009-11-17 12:02
#49
This talks a bit about its founding in the US.
http://www.bnaibrith.org/about_us/bbi_roots.cfm
Unionist may know more on the subject than I do.
Tue, 2009-11-17 13:18
#50
Thanks. That's just what I needed.
Tue, 2009-11-17 15:40
#51
Seems to me that today B'nai Brith is a shadow of its former self. Its membership hovers around 9000 people and at best it can be said to represent its very small membership akin to the Knights of Pythias but much much smaller.
Most Canadian Jews see either the UJA or the CJC as a more legitimate voice representing Canadian Jewry.